Any Warclaw changes tomorrow? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Any Warclaw changes tomorrow?

Sazukikrah.5036Sazukikrah.5036 Member ✭✭✭

I'm not expecting much but i would love to see some minor tweaks to Warclaw... for the Love of Dwyana and what ever other deities you Bookah's worship. Please change the dang Battle maul to at least dismount other players. Im tired of running past people and not being able to fight. You already killed stealth classes in WvW with the "Mark" mechanic on towers and Sentry's. Why does WvW keep getting punished , what did we dooooooo!

Comments

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sazukikrah.5036 said:
    I'm not expecting much but i would love to see some minor tweaks to Warclaw... for the Love of Dwyana and what ever other deities you Bookah's worship. Please change the dang Battle maul to at least dismount other players. Im tired of running past people and not being able to fight.

    this specific change has been brought up so many times now, that they surely at least talk about it :)
    but it might take some time as there are still things to consider. for example should you after using your engage skill be locked out of the mount for longer than the one second you are now (10s maybe) , so that you get 'punished' for missing it ?

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2019

    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    "hopping and jumping to the next out-numbered guys" because that's how it work currently, zergs leave no chance to out-numbered people.
    And the "next engagement" is more than 2/3 about killing people with more number or capping free(wood) structure.

    Gankers just evolves from thieves/mes with dedicated builds to teamfight classes on warclaw ;)

  • Sazukikrah.5036Sazukikrah.5036 Member ✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Extra health bar, means extra skills have to be used just to dismount a player. Mobility and immunity to CC means it not only causes a disadvantage but in most cases will completely nullify melee skills, giving all power to ranged damage. Players no longer have to engage, and can simply run away. All this creates a total breakdown in the quality of WvW, and degrades the value of different playstyles, giving all priority to zerging and ktraining. The devs need to tweak the mount to make it less of a novelty, and more of tool to enhance fights. For example, draining the stamina bar when cc'ed, or adding a cc bar so the mount is not immune to cc's which is utterly ridiculous in WvW.

    Also, more stealth nerfs.

    The mount basically has an infinite Crowd Control bar / Defiant bar that the NPC's out in PVE have like champions . I've seeen it once when a player was dismounting. I literally saw that Defiant Bar .

  • Ni In.6578Ni In.6578 Member ✭✭✭

    Ganking is part of this game. Just like pin-sniping. No one component which has been part of the game for so long should be invalidated. You may hate ganking (as do I on an almost full zerker hammer rev), but none-the-less denial of access to your tag or an objective is fundamentally a component of WvW.

    [VII] Spectre Legacy - Declared Best NA Guild by Grimaldi
    Crystal Desert Consul Member and President of Scrubs; declared most toxic server NA by Z E Y
    [VII] wants fights! Please bring your pug rangers for UD progress.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sazukikrah.5036 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Extra health bar, means extra skills have to be used just to dismount a player. Mobility and immunity to CC means it not only causes a disadvantage but in most cases will completely nullify melee skills, giving all power to ranged damage. Players no longer have to engage, and can simply run away. All this creates a total breakdown in the quality of WvW, and degrades the value of different playstyles, giving all priority to zerging and ktraining. The devs need to tweak the mount to make it less of a novelty, and more of tool to enhance fights. For example, draining the stamina bar when cc'ed, or adding a cc bar so the mount is not immune to cc's which is utterly ridiculous in WvW.

    Also, more stealth nerfs.

    The mount basically has an infinite Crowd Control bar / Defiant bar that the NPC's out in PVE have like champions . I've seeen it once when a player was dismounting. I literally saw that Defiant Bar .

    I am not sure what you mean by that, as far as I know all mounts including Warclaw are immune to CC's. Personally I think this needs to be changed in WvW, I listed 2 possible ideas in my earlier post.

    BG

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think when they dismount it may flash briefly, probably that.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I think when they dismount it may flash briefly, probably that.

    I have not personally seen it, but if it happens it might be a removed feature.

    BG

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I'm all for Warclaw changes, but I've noticed that many of the people who are complaining about enemies running away, are they themselves known for being players who often run away from fair fights and 1v1s. I find that very amusing. Have you noticed the same? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Fully agreed.
    And as a necro main, I'm proud to say that I've never ran from any fights.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD -> TC -> Mag -> GOM -> AR -> JQ

  • Tweak the following:

    • Mount engage skill dismounts other players
    • Sniff only work on stealthed targets
    • Remove dismount 'jump' allowing players to gain height into exploit/unintended areas
    • Mount should be CC-able... defiance bar maybe

    Don't know how to feel about the x3 leap evades, but glad the devs shortened it. I still believe this thing should've been movement speed bonus only from the get-go to balance out classes having to give up dmg for speed runes/skills/traits.

  • Sazukikrah.5036Sazukikrah.5036 Member ✭✭✭

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:
    Tweak the following:

    • Mount engage skill dismounts other players
    • Sniff only work on stealthed targets
    • Remove dismount 'jump' allowing players to gain height into exploit/unintended areas
    • Mount should be CC-able... defiance bar maybe

    Don't know how to feel about the x3 leap evades, but glad the devs shortened it. I still believe this thing should've been movement speed bonus only from the get-go to balance out classes having to give up dmg for speed runes/skills/traits.

    I like everything but the sniff idea. That would be another op skill like Adding Mark to Towers and Sentry's. Sniff is fine. I think they should add a pull chain to the mount that allows you to do dmg ONLY to mounts and cost supplies.
    I'd bet they release mount skins for a quick cash grab before they release any balancing changes to mounts. We'll probably have to wait as long as we did when they first added Desert Borderlands and waited months for those changes to come.

  • @Sazukikrah.5036 said:

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:
    Tweak the following:

    • Mount engage skill dismounts other players
    • Sniff only work on stealthed targets
    • Remove dismount 'jump' allowing players to gain height into exploit/unintended areas
    • Mount should be CC-able... defiance bar maybe

    Don't know how to feel about the x3 leap evades, but glad the devs shortened it. I still believe this thing should've been movement speed bonus only from the get-go to balance out classes having to give up dmg for speed runes/skills/traits.

    I like everything but the sniff idea. That would be another op skill like Adding Mark to Towers and Sentry's. Sniff is fine. I think they should add a pull chain to the mount that allows you to do dmg ONLY to mounts and cost supplies.
    I'd bet they release mount skins for a quick cash grab before they release any balancing changes to mounts. We'll probably have to wait as long as we did when they first added Desert Borderlands and waited months for those changes to come.

    Idk Sniff felt broken to me. It's supposed to ping dots on the map for a few seconds right? The tooltip is very vague. What I mean by my suggestion is they should reverse it to ping stealthed targets only, not nearby enemies. It's literally another mobile watch tower no wonder havoc/smaller groups either died off or are at such a disadvantage. There's just so much passive scouting now (stealth trap, watch tower, target painter) I feel like Sniff skill is wrong and should be focused on picking up actual stealthed, incoming targets (not reveal) just to ping them.

    It just annoys me knowing our 10 man group trying to assault hills gets pinged by some warclaw sitting around inner wall, the dude doesn't even need to poke his head up and count us. It's all done for him via Sniff. Lame.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:

    @Sazukikrah.5036 said:

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:
    Tweak the following:

    • Mount engage skill dismounts other players
    • Sniff only work on stealthed targets
    • Remove dismount 'jump' allowing players to gain height into exploit/unintended areas
    • Mount should be CC-able... defiance bar maybe

    Don't know how to feel about the x3 leap evades, but glad the devs shortened it. I still believe this thing should've been movement speed bonus only from the get-go to balance out classes having to give up dmg for speed runes/skills/traits.

    I like everything but the sniff idea. That would be another op skill like Adding Mark to Towers and Sentry's. Sniff is fine. I think they should add a pull chain to the mount that allows you to do dmg ONLY to mounts and cost supplies.
    I'd bet they release mount skins for a quick cash grab before they release any balancing changes to mounts. We'll probably have to wait as long as we did when they first added Desert Borderlands and waited months for those changes to come.

    Idk Sniff felt broken to me. It's supposed to ping dots on the map for a few seconds right? The tooltip is very vague. What I mean by my suggestion is they should reverse it to ping stealthed targets only, not nearby enemies. It's literally another mobile watch tower no wonder havoc/smaller groups either died off or are at such a disadvantage.

    only the one using sniff does see the dots shortly, not his allies. thats a major difference to a watchtower.

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:

    @Sazukikrah.5036 said:

    @Queen Anastasia.7103 said:
    Tweak the following:

    • Mount engage skill dismounts other players
    • Sniff only work on stealthed targets
    • Remove dismount 'jump' allowing players to gain height into exploit/unintended areas
    • Mount should be CC-able... defiance bar maybe

    Don't know how to feel about the x3 leap evades, but glad the devs shortened it. I still believe this thing should've been movement speed bonus only from the get-go to balance out classes having to give up dmg for speed runes/skills/traits.

    I like everything but the sniff idea. That would be another op skill like Adding Mark to Towers and Sentry's. Sniff is fine. I think they should add a pull chain to the mount that allows you to do dmg ONLY to mounts and cost supplies.
    I'd bet they release mount skins for a quick cash grab before they release any balancing changes to mounts. We'll probably have to wait as long as we did when they first added Desert Borderlands and waited months for those changes to come.

    Idk Sniff felt broken to me. It's supposed to ping dots on the map for a few seconds right? The tooltip is very vague. What I mean by my suggestion is they should reverse it to ping stealthed targets only, not nearby enemies. It's literally another mobile watch tower no wonder havoc/smaller groups either died off or are at such a disadvantage. There's just so much passive scouting now (stealth trap, watch tower, target painter) I feel like Sniff skill is wrong and should be focused on picking up actual stealthed, incoming targets (not reveal) just to ping them.

    It just annoys me knowing our 10 man group trying to assault hills gets pinged by some warclaw sitting around inner wall, the dude doesn't even need to poke his head up and count us. It's all done for him via Sniff. Lame.

    Get used to it, started with sentry reveals then tactivators then stealth traps now like you say mobile reveals...I've been roaming/havoking since year one and you used to have to roam and scout by sentries disappearing and swords...now its all given on a "silver"platter...enough said anybody with 2 sense realizes how dumming down WvW is getting...and like the original poster...mounts is nothing but rubbish unless your blinded on the swiftness...anyways am a minority in these forums from reading all the advocates...anyways...

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • @MUDse.7623 said:
    only the one using sniff does see the dots shortly, not his allies. thats a major difference to a watchtower.

    I didn't know this for the one using the skill (that's actually a lot better than what I thought it was doing), thanks for sharing.

    It's still similar to watch tower in that it's extremely lazy scout design (pings enemies); that guy will be hiding inner wall Sniff not even have to show his face and "time to call my 50 man map blob to come run over this small group".

  • @StrawHat.2639 said:
    Get used to it, started with sentry reveals then tactivators then stealth traps now like you say mobile reveals...I've been roaming/havoking since year one and you used to have to roam and scout by sentries disappearing and swords...now its all given on a "silver"platter...enough said anybody with 2 sense realizes how dumming down WvW is getting...and like the original poster...mounts is nothing but rubbish unless your blinded on the swiftness...anyways am a minority in these forums from reading all the advocates...anyways...

    Got my own ways to get around certain areas. You're not wrong, I miss those days where you actually had to actively scout objective areas. Now it's all seemingly auto-pilot. Next they'll add a map-wide dot pinger that pulses every 5 mins... I legit wouldn't be surprised smh.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I'm all for Warclaw changes, but I've noticed that many of the people who are complaining about enemies running away, are they themselves known for being players who often run away from fair fights and 1v1s. I find that very amusing. Have you noticed the same? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Pretty much this. I'm not anti-gank specifically but I do appreciate the irony. And I don't appreciate that every time something changes ppl would rather complain than adapt. I have no problem with the current level of effort it takes to dismount someone, and I wouldn't have a problem with anet making it harder or easier to dismount someone in the future bc I can adapt to any of those situations . . .

    But if they are looking at changing something so soon after implementation I'd vote for skills 2 or 3, which are pretty much useless rn. I can't think of anything good that would come from making skill 3 more useful but making skill 2 marks visible to everyone in the map seems like a no-brainer, since it would be the rough equivalent of creating a keybind for typing 'Hey there are X number of ppl over here' in map which anyone can already do anyway . . .

  • Whether or not the Warclaw will be changed, I kind of doubt it will happen tomorrow. They already did some quick changes on a several things they didn't like. (Such as nerfing the leap.) It seems more likely at this point that they will wait to see how things work out once the acquisition phase has calmed down and players start to actually use the Warclaw and develop strategies around it and so on. This is the honeymoon phase where everyone's desperately in love or hate with it. Can't really judge it until it's had some time in the field.

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:
    Whether or not the Warclaw will be changed, I kind of doubt it will happen tomorrow. They already did some quick changes on a several things they didn't like. (Such as nerfing the leap.) It seems more likely at this point that they will wait to see how things work out once the acquisition phase has calmed down and players start to actually use the Warclaw and develop strategies around it and so on. This is the honeymoon phase where everyone's desperately in love or hate with it. Can't really judge it until it's had some time in the field.

    Been at it for a little while and its only viable on desert bl...

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I'm all for Warclaw changes, but I've noticed that many of the people who are complaining about enemies running away, are they themselves known for being players who often run away from fair fights and 1v1s. I find that very amusing. Have you noticed the same? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Yep, their hypocrisy fuels my ragefire. Of course their defense would be "of course I ran, why would I stay in the fight knowing I was about to lose?". But when a glass zerg sees a Soulbeast/Holo/Mirage/Thief (who fails at stealth) and they use their mount to avoid the fight, all of a sudden that kills WvW. Yeah. B)

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:
    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

    What do you consider a ganker? Anyone who kills you? That seems to be the definition people have been using lately. Its quite funny actually that if a blob jumps 2 guys with 50 its A-okay. Nothing wrong with that. But let you get 2v1ed on the way back to your zergs. Those bad players just always ganking you huh?

    Defensive I see. Trying to justify your actions? Personally, I don't have any issues with gankers. I roam a lot (haven't zerged for years, except this last week). I'm not very good, usually get slaughtered. But I have fun. I'll even attack someone who has killed me repeatedly, just to see if I can live a split second longer. But those are just good players, not gankers.

    Everyone knows what a ganker is and why they do it. And usually they are also the first to run if they start losing, even in a 1vs1. They are fairly easy to identify and avoid if you have played a long time. But for new players trying to learn the game, they can become a hurdle impossible to overcome.

    Cheeseball gankers are a type, and their short sighted actions are a huge reason why RvR games have a rough time competing in the market place. Any mechanic that limits their effectiveness is a plus for the game as a whole.

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:
    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

    What do you consider a ganker? Anyone who kills you? That seems to be the definition people have been using lately. Its quite funny actually that if a blob jumps 2 guys with 50 its A-okay. Nothing wrong with that. But let you get 2v1ed on the way back to your zergs. Those bad players just always ganking you huh?

    Defensive I see. Trying to justify your actions? Personally, I don't have any issues with gankers. I roam a lot (haven't zerged for years, except this last week). I'm not very good, usually get slaughtered. But I have fun. I'll even attack someone who has killed me repeatedly, just to see if I can live a split second longer. But those are just good players, not gankers.

    Everyone knows what a ganker is and why they do it. And usually they are also the first to run if they start losing, even in a 1vs1. They are fairly easy to identify and avoid if you have played a long time. But for new players trying to learn the game, they can become a hurdle impossible to overcome.

    Cheeseball gankers are a type, and their short sighted actions are a huge reason why RvR games have a rough time competing in the market place. Any mechanic that limits their effectiveness is a plus for the game as a whole.

    Nah. Thats truly the definition everyone is using. If you feel ganked you were probably out of position. I solo roam a lot. I roam with friends some. We almost always look for outnumbered fights but you know how that goes. That doesnt mean a scourge is free to go back to his zerg when they fighting our zerg though. My main point is why do zerg players feel like they got ganked when 3 people kill them but they think nothing of running down 2 people with 50.

    Your response indicates you didn't read my post at all. You directed your comments at me and yet I told you none of your assumptions are correct. So who are you talking to?

    As I said I don't have an issue with gankers personally. But they are a very, very big problem for new players and are a big reason why RvR games fail.

    It's very easy to kill a RvR game. Just empower ganking and watch everyone else leave. Is that really what you are asking for?

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:
    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

    What do you consider a ganker? Anyone who kills you? That seems to be the definition people have been using lately. Its quite funny actually that if a blob jumps 2 guys with 50 its A-okay. Nothing wrong with that. But let you get 2v1ed on the way back to your zergs. Those bad players just always ganking you huh?

    Defensive I see. Trying to justify your actions? Personally, I don't have any issues with gankers. I roam a lot (haven't zerged for years, except this last week). I'm not very good, usually get slaughtered. But I have fun. I'll even attack someone who has killed me repeatedly, just to see if I can live a split second longer. But those are just good players, not gankers.

    Everyone knows what a ganker is and why they do it. And usually they are also the first to run if they start losing, even in a 1vs1. They are fairly easy to identify and avoid if you have played a long time. But for new players trying to learn the game, they can become a hurdle impossible to overcome.

    Cheeseball gankers are a type, and their short sighted actions are a huge reason why RvR games have a rough time competing in the market place. Any mechanic that limits their effectiveness is a plus for the game as a whole.

    Nah. Thats truly the definition everyone is using. If you feel ganked you were probably out of position. I solo roam a lot. I roam with friends some. We almost always look for outnumbered fights but you know how that goes. That doesnt mean a scourge is free to go back to his zerg when they fighting our zerg though. My main point is why do zerg players feel like they got ganked when 3 people kill them but they think nothing of running down 2 people with 50.

    Your response indicates you didn't read my post at all. You directed your comments at me and yet I told you none of your assumptions are correct. So who are you talking to?

    As I said I don't have an issue with gankers personally. But they are a very, very big problem for new players and are a big reason why RvR games fail.

    It's very easy to kill a RvR game. Just empower ganking and watch everyone else leave. Is that really what you are asking for?

    Nah I read your post. I was using 'you' as a general term to anyone who may be reading and not you specifically.

    Empowering ganking is not the same as empowering roamers. I dont even like the term empower. As I believe we should all be on an even playing field. Obviously a zerg should have an advantage over small scale but that should be in numbers only. But when it comes to roamers and gankers one does not necessarily equal the others. Despite what the majority of the zerg community seems to think.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    My vote:

    • Maul should force a dismount on enemies
    • Hard CC should force a dismount on enemies
    • Sniff should mark stealthed players for 3s or so which is an indirect reveal but still allows for counter play
    • Wounded mounts should run at player speed with swiftness
    • Players should take 5k or so damage and get knocked down when their mount dies

    Basically mounts need a few more counters to keep people from using them as a second (or third) health bar.

  • killahmayne.9518killahmayne.9518 Member ✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:
    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

    What do you consider a ganker? Anyone who kills you? That seems to be the definition people have been using lately. Its quite funny actually that if a blob jumps 2 guys with 50 its A-okay. Nothing wrong with that. But let you get 2v1ed on the way back to your zergs. Those bad players just always ganking you huh?

    Defensive I see. Trying to justify your actions? Personally, I don't have any issues with gankers. I roam a lot (haven't zerged for years, except this last week). I'm not very good, usually get slaughtered. But I have fun. I'll even attack someone who has killed me repeatedly, just to see if I can live a split second longer. But those are just good players, not gankers.

    Everyone knows what a ganker is and why they do it. And usually they are also the first to run if they start losing, even in a 1vs1. They are fairly easy to identify and avoid if you have played a long time. But for new players trying to learn the game, they can become a hurdle impossible to overcome.

    Cheeseball gankers are a type, and their short sighted actions are a huge reason why RvR games have a rough time competing in the market place. Any mechanic that limits their effectiveness is a plus for the game as a whole.

    Nah. Thats truly the definition everyone is using. If you feel ganked you were probably out of position. I solo roam a lot. I roam with friends some. We almost always look for outnumbered fights but you know how that goes. That doesnt mean a scourge is free to go back to his zerg when they fighting our zerg though. My main point is why do zerg players feel like they got ganked when 3 people kill them but they think nothing of running down 2 people with 50.

    Your response indicates you didn't read my post at all. You directed your comments at me and yet I told you none of your assumptions are correct. So who are you talking to?

    As I said I don't have an issue with gankers personally. But they are a very, very big problem for new players and are a big reason why RvR games fail.

    It's very easy to kill a RvR game. Just empower ganking and watch everyone else leave. Is that really what you are asking for?

    And do you have any proof of this? You are just making general statements/assumptions. I've never seen a game killed because of "ganking". In the first 2-3 years of the game ganking was a lot worse due to stealth having very little counterplay and with certain stealth builds just being overpowered. Game did just fine, it was a lot of other things that have killed WvW.

    Duckota has a point, you guys are selectively choosing what "ganking" is and using that as justification as to why it shouldn't be in the game (because let's be honest, you don't have to fight any fight you don't want to anymore). What's the difference between 3 people hunting you down vs a whole zerg aside from numbers? It's carebear/gimmicky stuff like this I would argue isn't good for the game. Instead of requiring actual basic skill and awareness in the game, you're given a get out of jail free card that doesn't punish you for making the wrong moves. You're dumbing down gameplay just to attempt to appeal to a more casual/wider audience. This might be good in the short term but I've seen many games just eventually go downhill after that. If somebody is working hard to try to engage a fight, you should have to work equally as hard to try and avoid it rather then have gimmicks bail you out.

    This is basically what the expansions in HoT and PoF introduced, gimmicky mechanics/traits, power creep to high hell which dumbed down skillful gameplay. Now there was some of this in the core game, but it isn't like it is now.

    Now if you want to talk about certain classes having over the top mobility like soulbeasts, mirages and certain thief builds, then that is certainly an argument, albeit a separate one.

    On another note, what nobody has mentioned is that I find it dumb how you can instadead players who are downed. I can't believe keeping some players at the back and disengaged from combat is an actual strategy and once a few players go down mounts can just swarm in for the death. I think mounts to be honest should be something like a siege item or something like a dragon banner type thing. Obviously rework it to fit the effort it takes to obtain it but I think that would have been cooler. Make the Warclaw something that helps capture objectives like a tower by adding a new dimension to sieging.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Straegen.2938 said:
    My vote:

    • Maul should force a dismount on enemies

    Seems fair. It dismounts both players.

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    • Hard CC should force a dismount on enemies

    Well no, pick one. Dismounting a player should be possible, not easy.

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    • Sniff should mark stealthed players for 3s or so which is an indirect reveal but still allows for counter play

    Nope. Stealth already has several counters in place, and the Warclaw sacrifices NOTHING for equipping or using Sniff. If ANET made Sniff expend supply, maybe, but I still think Stealth has been 'nerfed' sufficiently.

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    • Wounded mounts should run at player speed with swiftness

    Meh. But if you included this with the 2 above, getting a player off the mount would be trivial. Any one of these solutions is viable, but not all 3. In any case this solution gives preference to ranged players vs. melee. A Ranger would have a much easier time catching up to and killing a mounted player than say a Spellbreaker or Guardian would.

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    • Players should take 5k or so damage and get knocked down when their mount dies

    Nope, as that will just guarantee a dismounted player will be 1 shot by whatever is attacking.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965

    Not going to quote that as it would get messy, but I'll address a few of the points you brought up with my opinion on it.

    Maul dismounting to me... while it sounds great is a bit odd. If I cant catch someone on my mount as it is (considering they start ahead of me most likely) then I'm not sure how i ever maul them, but why not add it in I guess?

    As for the hard CC forcing dismount. I believe both should be a thing. To be fair I think being put into combat (by a player) should dismount you with no stun and that only siege and NPCs should use the mounts health pool.

    As for stealth I believe that some of the reveals actually need to go away, and that a rework on how stealth stacks needs to be done alongside that. D/P thief for example has its damage frontloaded onto backstab. Making it much less useful in an enemy watchtower. But why?

    Getting a player off a mount should be quite trivial in my opinion. That way engaging on a mounted opponent results in a fair fight in terms of cooldowns after the dismount.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, appearance change with 5 new skins, enjoy.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    Maul dismounting to me... while it sounds great is a bit odd. If I cant catch someone on my mount as it is (considering they start ahead of me most likely) then I'm not sure how i ever maul them, but why not add it in I guess?

    Depends who is on friendly territory, the chaser or the chasee, as their mount will move faster.

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    As for the hard CC forcing dismount. I believe both should be a thing. To be fair I think being put into combat (by a player) should dismount you with no stun and that only siege and NPCs should use the mounts health pool.

    The problem there is you will dismount a player by pushing 1 button that can't really miss, or be countered, as the mount (I assume) can't get stability. That makes it far to easy to dismount a player.

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    Getting a player off a mount should be quite trivial in my opinion. That way engaging on a mounted opponent results in a fair fight in terms of cooldowns after the dismount.

    I disagree that it should be trivial, and I agree with what you are saying about cooldowns. That's why I think the 1st option is the best, as both players get dismounted, both will be in combat, both have full health and cooldowns, and melee/ranged builds have an equal chance of success. The major determining factor would be the speed boost you get while in friendly territory, which for me makes sense, as that means you're more vulnerable in enemy territory where you can get ambushed, while still helping players to avoid spawn campers in controlled territory. Another factor in chasing down a mounted player would be how quickly each player spots the other (awareness) and their use of leaps and general movement if they are trying to get away.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965

    Right, but I think we should all move the same speed. Regardless of territory and that speed should be swiftness speed. The first solution isn't going to change anything about roaming and once again will only help zergs (imo). The only thing you wont see anymore is people coming up to you and hopping around in circles just because they can. That is about all that would change with maul. No speed boost should be 'major' however. Sad we're at the point we are now. You know how you avoid spawn campers? You don't get sent back to spawn or you take one of the multiple routes of your spawn people seem to forget about for some reason.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019
    • I also think skill 1 should dismount both of you.
    • Trap that slows down mounts (and only mounts)
    • Maybe a CC bar.
    • No stealth for mounts kitten

    Being unable to immobilize a mount is silly.

  • Farout.8207Farout.8207 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    As for the hard CC forcing dismount. I believe both should be a thing. To be fair I think being put into combat (by a player) should dismount you with no stun and that only siege and NPCs should use the mounts health pool.

    The problem there is you will dismount a player by pushing 1 button that can't really miss, or be countered, as the mount (I assume) can't get stability. That makes it far to easy to dismount a player.

    The mount has two or even three evades. Is using a dodge button too much to ask? Or, do you prefer to be hard carried by a gimmick?

    ~Cleetus

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Grim West.3194 said:
    So far the Warclaw has been a ton of fun. The only people really negatively effected by it are the gankers, which also is a positive change.

    I even found myself joining the zerg again (haven't in years) because of how much fun it was to be in the cavalry hopping and jumping to the next engagement accross the map.

    After most of the pve players are done and the game settles down again, that is when the real issues will show up.

    I might suggest they allow new players to rent a Warclaw (in WvW only) until they get the mastery which would then allow them to use it in PvE. Once most players in WvW have Warclaws, new players are going to have a VERY rough time. Not a great way to introduce WvW to the unsuspecting. After terrorizing some of those PvE players over the weekend, I don't see any reason to make it even harder on them.

    What do you consider a ganker? Anyone who kills you? That seems to be the definition people have been using lately. Its quite funny actually that if a blob jumps 2 guys with 50 its A-okay. Nothing wrong with that. But let you get 2v1ed on the way back to your zergs. Those bad players just always ganking you huh?

    Defensive I see. Trying to justify your actions? Personally, I don't have any issues with gankers. I roam a lot (haven't zerged for years, except this last week). I'm not very good, usually get slaughtered. But I have fun. I'll even attack someone who has killed me repeatedly, just to see if I can live a split second longer. But those are just good players, not gankers.

    Everyone knows what a ganker is and why they do it. And usually they are also the first to run if they start losing, even in a 1vs1. They are fairly easy to identify and avoid if you have played a long time. But for new players trying to learn the game, they can become a hurdle impossible to overcome.

    Cheeseball gankers are a type, and their short sighted actions are a huge reason why RvR games have a rough time competing in the market place. Any mechanic that limits their effectiveness is a plus for the game as a whole.

    Nah. Thats truly the definition everyone is using. If you feel ganked you were probably out of position. I solo roam a lot. I roam with friends some. We almost always look for outnumbered fights but you know how that goes. That doesnt mean a scourge is free to go back to his zerg when they fighting our zerg though. My main point is why do zerg players feel like they got ganked when 3 people kill them but they think nothing of running down 2 people with 50.

    Your response indicates you didn't read my post at all. You directed your comments at me and yet I told you none of your assumptions are correct. So who are you talking to?

    As I said I don't have an issue with gankers personally. But they are a very, very big problem for new players and are a big reason why RvR games fail.

    It's very easy to kill a RvR game. Just empower ganking and watch everyone else leave. Is that really what you are asking for?

    Nah I read your post. I was using 'you' as a general term to anyone who may be reading and not you specifically.

    Empowering ganking is not the same as empowering roamers. I dont even like the term empower. As I believe we should all be on an even playing field. Obviously a zerg should have an advantage over small scale but that should be in numbers only. But when it comes to roamers and gankers one does not necessarily equal the others. Despite what the majority of the zerg community seems to think.

    Been roaming since I came back to WvW (7 or 8 months ago). I don't equate roaming with ganking. Never implied it or said it. Gankers are the only ones who are defensive about this.

    Zerg players built for group play, and new players, have no defense against gankers and you know it. Any mechanic that allows trash players to attack those players repeatedly, hurts the game. Most players hate gankers and the type of person who enjoys it. Anyone who can't see that is in serious denial.

    The Warclaw usually allows players to avoid gankers if they want to. If the Warclaw rider wants to stay and fight they can choose to, or they can go back to the zerg, etc. If you take away the ability of zerg players and new players to avoid jerks then the game loses. Only the blind and/or corrupt wont admit that.

    Right now the Warclaw has a decent ablity to escape and it should stay that way for the health of the game. But the Warclaw is not invulnerable, it can be brought down. I do NOT support giving cheeseball gankers even more power to attack the defenseless. Gankers already have plenty of tools for that. Use them if that is your thing.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    I do not know that. They have the same keybinds, traits, and gear options available to them that I do. I'll duel anyone who thinks I'm a trash a player if that is what it boils down to. I'm always open for duels if someone doesn't like losing when they don't get the pick the fight location and start time you know. No hard feelings either. I'm not saying I'll win every duel, but I'm saying I'll take every duel. Why? Because I want to get better. There is no reason in a pvp game mode where you should get to pick and choose which fights you want -so easily-. I believe they should have the ability to run. Just not as easily as they can currently. This is unhealthy for the game and I would say you are in the minority for roamers who think it is healthy. Just among those I have talked to. Which even them I'm sure is quite a small % of all roamers that exist obviously. I'm not a jerk for trying to kill someone with a red name though. More or less they're idiotic for entering a pvp game mode and thinking their experience will be full of rainbows and butterflies. If its red I'm probably going to attack. Why? Because zergs surely try to run over me when I'm not chasing their zerg. People still squirrel. I'm not sensitive about it. I don't understand why everyone else is. If they took the time to get better then maybe they wouldn't die to 'ganks' so often.

    @Grim West.3194 meant to quote you.

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