Revenant Utilities

The Revenant class needs more utilities.

For every elite spec it gets 1 heal, 3 utilities, and 1 elite skill.

The Revenant class obviously wasn't given a huge development process but I love it no matter the former. Adding new Revenant abilities is absolutely required in order for it to compete legitimately on the OW, PvP, WvW, and Raid market. It would be a sad sight for a lot of the skills to be OP, so OP that everyone starts playing Revenant, but when a noob asks me why he doesn't have as many skills as his Ranger, I don't have a good answer for him.

Support? Discuss.

while it's a straightforward solution i don't think it's the only or even the best solution to rev's lack of skills

@Neeman Oria.7504 said:when a noob asks me why he doesn't have as many skills as his Ranger, I don't have a good answer for him.

The answer is that while a Rev may not have as many skills, it can access more of them during one battle. When you swap legends, your utility skills change. Not only that, but your power pool recharges to 50 as well, so you're not helpless. At least, that's the idea...

The truth is that (to me, at least) many of the core Rev skills feel underwhelming. Yeah, I have access to two heals, but that's not a benefit if it takes both to do what one good heal does from any other class. And for any playstyle there may be one good legend, but any secondary legend you swap to in need is going to be far less than ideal for that situation. I can see the supposed benefit of the system and how it's intended to work, but it feels like they forgot that Revs pay for that in other ways, and balanced most of the utilities as if the legend swapping was a bonus ability on top of a normal class.

This might get better attention in the Revenant profession sub-fourm

Professions have never had exactly identical numbers of skills - elementalists have roughly 4 times as many weapon skills as anyone else, except maybe Engineers who have utility skills which give them 5 extra weapon skills. Do all the other professions need more weapon skills to match?

IMO a better way to look at it is to ask what kinds of skills the revenant is lacking, rather than making it purely about numbers. If it did get additional utilities what would they do? What would make them worth taking over the existing ones (without simply being OP)? Or would these extra skills be basically a different animation which achieves the same thing?

@Palador.2170 made a start here and I definitely agree with the point about heal skills. The most likely reason for me to swap legend is because I've used my heal skill and I'm still low on health so I swap and use the 2nd heal as well. I realise that's probably partially because I normally use the assassin and demon legends and those are very damage focused but losing my favourite utility and elite skills for a better heal seems like an inadequate trade-off.

I like the current system of being stuck with a set of skills per legend and bringing different legends for different demands. I am only missing a competitive power DPS spec for end game PvE. Other than that (and gameplay issues in some builds like support focused) there is little reason to feel discriminated. Renegade has 2 meta builds for raids and fractals, herald has meta builds for PvP and WvW plus meta builds for a few raid encounters. Either work perfectly fine for OW (does that even have a meta? surely doesnt need it).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, all builds considered, isn't Rev a must have in a WvW zerg comp, a decent roamer (weak only condi builds especially condi mirages), a very strong +1 in PvP (especially in teams that can support the rev), and a decent condi class in instanced PvE?

The class's diversity is awful, that I agree, especially considering core legends. But rev has good builds in all game modes, it's just the diversity that is bad. I'd rather have them work on the core traitlines and core legends than come up with new skills.

Problem with Revenant is that every legend has to be somehow useful in both PvP and PvE which leaves class with half of the kit against players and the other half against AI.

Let's take Mallyx for example - by design this is a PvP legend - healing off conditions, negating them, Confusion, Resistance - all of these are meant for PvP, even the Torment itself. It's just that Rev can spam Torment so much that it's useful in PvE.Kalla is like 99% PvE, so it's an exception.

Jalis - Stability, unblockable damage, Damage Reduction, Taunt - also a PvP setup.

Shiro - Target blink, backward dash with condi cleanse, Superspeed, Unblockable damage and damage-lacking AoE stun - pretty PvP for me.

Ventari - Projectile Block, Condition cleanse and Knockback on Elite. Again, a lot of PvP stuff.

That doesn't mean every legend performs good in PvP. It's just they are designed to work in both PvE and PvP which makes half of the legend useless in either gamemode.

@"Neeman Oria.7504" said:Adding new Revenant abilities is absolutely required in order for it to compete legitimately on the OW, PvP, WvW, and Raid market.

I mean... Yeah, you have limited utility options, but unless you're just meme'ing around in the open world, every class is just as restricted as Rev is by the meta...

Like, your ranger friend won't get to have 90% of those utility skills on his bar in any sort of serious game mode or group--so they might as well not even exist other than for like roleplaying purposes or screwing around or whatever. If you want to play "legitimately in the Raid market," you'll be using the same 5 utility skills as everyone else (maybe with a sliiiiiight, sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiight variation)--it might as well be a fixed Legend at that point.

Long time ago before rev was even released i remember article where Roy mentioned summoning a rune from air to the ground, knocking off opponents and providing some shelter or w/e for Jalis. Rev community always says that we can swap legends and i mean cool but.. they forgets about F skills. Guardian in combat for example has 8 utilities due to virtues. Mesmer 9. Engi 10. Necro gets an extra wep skill bar with lifeforce etc. So where is our advantage?

Each legend should have either 5 utilities (2 for pve in mind, 2 for pvp, 1 hybrid for example stunbreaks) or we should get another base legend to make up for the lower amount of utilities compared other classes

Sad part is that even some core traits were designed for herald (it really seems like that). Revenant has a little option for condi's (which every class can survive if they "wish" to build against condi dmg), still buggy-ish skills, lack of enough f-skills and lack of enough legends.

I will say it again. The class need a redesign because it will always be limited on what future Elite Specs can do because of the limitations of Legend system.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Problem with Revenant is that every legend has to be somehow useful in both PvP and PvE which leaves class with half of the kit against players and the other half against AI.

Let's take Mallyx for example - by design this is a PvP legend - healing off conditions, negating them, Confusion, Resistance - all of these are meant for PvP, even the Torment itself. It's just that Rev can spam Torment so much that it's useful in PvE.Kalla is like 99% PvE, so it's an exception.

Jalis - Stability, unblockable damage, Damage Reduction, Taunt - also a PvP setup.

Shiro - Target blink, backward dash with condi cleanse, Superspeed, Unblockable damage and damage-lacking AoE stun - pretty PvP for me.

Ventari - Projectile Block, Condition cleanse and Knockback on Elite. Again, a lot of PvP stuff.

That doesn't mean every legend performs good in PvP. It's just they are designed to work in both PvE and PvP which makes half of the legend useless in either gamemode.

The reason why most stuff work at half on PVE its due how basic gw2 pve is ment to be dumb so most can overperferm and acomplsih something, beside stack aoe damage and boons nothing else is needed, theres a lack of combat varietty and a huge lack of mechanics for the mobs or the pve system itself.

@idolin.2831 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but, all builds considered, isn't Rev a must have in a WvW zerg comp, a decent roamer (weak only condi builds especially condi mirages), a very strong +1 in PvP (especially in teams that can support the rev), and a decent condi class in instanced PvE?

The class's diversity is awful, that I agree, especially considering core legends. But rev has good builds in all game modes, it's just the diversity that is bad. I'd rather have them work on the core traitlines and core legends than come up with new skills.

Finally, someone who can peer through the mists with clear vision.

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@idolin.2831 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but, all builds considered, isn't Rev a must have in a WvW zerg comp, a decent roamer (weak only condi builds especially condi mirages), a very strong +1 in PvP (especially in teams that can support the rev), and a decent condi class in instanced PvE?

The class's diversity is awful, that I agree, especially considering core legends. But rev has good builds in all game modes, it's just the diversity that is bad. I'd rather have them work on the core traitlines and core legends than come up with new skills.

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:

@idolin.2831 said:Correct me if I'm wrong, but, all builds considered, isn't Rev a must have in a WvW zerg comp, a decent roamer (weak only condi builds especially condi mirages), a very strong +1 in PvP (especially in teams that can support the rev), and a decent condi class in instanced PvE?

The class's diversity is awful, that I agree, especially considering core legends. But rev has good builds in all game modes, it's just the diversity that is bad. I'd rather have them work on the core traitlines and core legends than come up with new skills.

Just because Jalis provides damage reduction doesn't mean you can play it as a tank, simple as that.It's the problem of Revenant as a whole. You are told that your playstyle changes one the current legend but it really doesn't.Renegade is a joke, because it doesn;t open any new playstyle for the Revenant. Energy mechanic (except spending it) doesn't mean anything.