WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.

Princ.3598Princ.3598 Member ✭✭
edited March 13, 2019 in WvW

(Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

Hi,

First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

Thoughts?

<134

Comments

  • Yeah! The commanders generally look for fb/scourge and revs mostly. Just follow the zergs and do ur thing,u can still contribute a lot Just not enough in the way commanders are looking for

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Not this topic again....
    Let me guess. Ranger?

    soulbeast

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

    Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but what happens its because meta in gw2 is called by this name cause it is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.
    If overperforms player quality its meta, if not kick...

    Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

  • Princ.3598Princ.3598 Member ✭✭

    I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

    Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but what happens its because meta is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.

    Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

    And that's why I don't play META, I do my own thing and don't join squads either. Sometimes I like to follow them to watch them wipe tho, lol.

    It's funny people say WvW has alot of builds, where every one tends to converge to the same builds and classes :}

    /irony.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    People do not want to waste their available support on a (selfish) class that neither needs nor substantially profits from it. Better to support classes that can actually have a major impact on the fight as they have access to relevant amounts of AoE damage.
    Regardless of soulbeasts (in-)effectiveness, it doesn’t need stability or other support to do whatever it is that it does. Only exception would be sharing stances but I’d guess (= I have no idea) that they are not powerful enough to make up for the lackluster weapon skills.
    It’s not about attitude, it is about the expected increase in group performance which is negligible in the case of supporting a soulbeast. It’s actually better to have soulbeasts without subgroup aka outside the squad (compared to those ranger only subgroups that commanders like to make) as they will share their stances with closeby allies instead of prioritizing the other rangers.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Your mileage and zerg will vary server to server. Since you said this is a large guild group its not surprising. And if a tag is trying to control who they have in their squad, its their squad and that's fine but they don't have a right to tell you what you are running if you are not in their squad. No on a very PUG friendly server, there are Soulbeats in the zergs and havocs. Soulbeasts are nice counters to Necro's of various sorts.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • Limodriver.4106Limodriver.4106 Member ✭✭✭

    get ur self a dps meter u will see u are at the bottom of the meter, u contribune nothing to the zerg fight all u do is leaching kills. Yes ur ranger can take out 1 guy real quick and gank ppl but for zerg fight u are useless.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Princ.3598 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    sounds like a poor attitude. some people aren't fit for leading.

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    Welcome to WvW and I hope you stay despite the bitter pill all newcomers have to swallow.

    Thanks, I tried to look at it from the bright side. Made my own little party of rangers following the zerg and we just called targets and melted people.

    Exactly. Off-havoc with them from your zerg and burn down the other zerg's Necros, it's a blast. And you know its working the enemy zerg turns on you and your zerg eats their flank, priceless.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/CU/AoC

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soulbeast doesn't need a squad spot. You may not like it, but that's what peak performance looks like.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    Squads are made for boonshare and heals. Back then, when squads didn't exist, people had to form their own parties. In particular, heralds and necros gain much more effectiveness when put in a party with stability .

    On most non-meta classes, they just don't share the right boons and often do not need to stack on zerg and can't recieve/boons or heals anyways. There's basically no point for you to be in the squad. It's not like people can hop to another instance, or kick you from a map.

    Basically, if you don't know why you need to be in a squad, it doesn't really affect your performance either.

    However, I will say ever since Stand Your Ground becomes 10 targets, it's really not that big of a deal...

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    As long as the downed/rally mechanic exists in the game commanders will not want tag-along or non-optimized players. The only time it really matters beyond the rally issue is on a q'd map vs an enemy q'd map or strong guild group.

    Rally needs to go. Downed state skills need to go. Downed state underwater needs to go. Downed twice in two minutes, dead. Same downed HP for all classes. There fixed most of it.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    You don't have to be in squad to follow tag but if you do want to be in squad, then do as the romans do.

    Squads are supposedly reserved for meta classes so meta players can get the necessary boons to keep them alive for pushes and bombs while maximizing their AOE dps. Naturally, in pug scenario, you don't have 9999 firebrands so the boons are actually VERY limited. Therefore there is really no reason for you to have any of such boons if you are not gonna provide comparable returns for having it.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    If they're strictly fight focused and/or the squad is full, I can kind of understand. Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

    While it's not a direct translation, if you can operate your class at Plat level you're much more valuable to everyone on that then a blob class you don't know for the sake of being on a blob class.

    Just do your own thing and have fun, call out any scouting information in map chat.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

    The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

    The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

    Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

    Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

    In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

    The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

    Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

    Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

    In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

    I guess you don't tag?

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    Ive noticed mostly zerg players are against no downstate (or so it seems to me) but I think that if there were no downstate this would go away. No downstate = no rallies. If you're playing a class or build that is not up to part for large scale WvW then you are not only just a liability to your team but you're technically helping the enemy team. Lets say 5-10 people tag you. Then you die because of your build and not your skill. Well then you just rallied 5-10 people. Obviously there are cases where you can play off meta exceptionally well and your team can truly benefit from you but they are looking to be competitive. It is a competitive game mode after all.

    Edit: I get why some people dont like no downstate. Must be annoying being a glass weaver and dying to AC and having to run all the way back, but I do think no downstate would help eliminate some of the concerns over rallying.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

    The fact they are following a zerg/blob means they are not interested to do such, why would you think tags saying anything would change their reasons for following a zerg/blob?

    Where do you draw the assumption that they're not interested if they haven't been asked/directed or even know it's a possible role? You think they're interested in playing a meta class by the same logic? It's as easy to say, "go flip X, or find me Y" as it is to say, "get on X or Y class". Further, what is the logic in accepting someone purely for the class they're on rather than their ability to play any class?

    Why would you think tags saying anything wouldn't change their reason? Every blob class in such a blob has a specific role dictated by the tag. Similarly, smart tags put all their non-blob classes in a party, give them participation, and say, "go do X". If they're not performing that role you boot them, just like you boot blob classes that can't stay on tag.

    In simple language: Rangers and such have no place in a blob. True. Rangers and such have no place in a squad. False.

    I guess you don't tag?

    I guess you don't manage your maps?

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2019

    Don't listen to people telling you to play meta or GTFO. This is part of why we have such thin populations in this game mode. Because these tossers have driven everyone away to the point where all they did is hop from map to map fighting the same blob, circling here or there and getting high off the smell of each other's farts in their VOIP of choice.

    My suggestion to you is to ignore the tag. If you get the other people on the map who are also roaming together especially on a home borderland it's actually more beneficial to have a secondary blob of say ten to fifteen. Even five to seven will work wonders if you're united instead of spread out all over the place.

    On a home borderland the average tag is just there to get bags for his blob. So just write the tag and his crew off as only going where the action is heaviest. But depending on your match-up and how fat the enemy server is, they're probably going to have several smaller bands two to five or even five to ten running around and taking things wherever your tag isn't. Contrary to what anybody says this is important.

    So if your tag is being that way then go to wherever they aren't with your band of misfits and re flip or defend anything they aren't. You'll still get participation and advancement for whatever reward track you're on, you'll still get fights. And if by chance it turns out the tag finds his blob is a bit too thin to fight the enemy blob at the time? Well that's just tough cheese, isn't it?

  • Limodriver.4106Limodriver.4106 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    I guess you don't tag?

    Anyone who knows how to WvW wouldnt follow a Ranger anyway.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Don't listen to people telling you to play meta or GTFO. This is part of why we have such thin populations in this game mode. Because these tossers have driven everyone away to the point where all they did is hope from map to map fighting the same blob, circling here or there and getting high off the smell of each other's farts in their VOIP of choice.

    My suggestion to you is to ignore the tag. If you get the other people on the map who are also roaming together especially on a home borderland it's actually more beneficial to have a secondary blob of say ten to fifteen. Even five to seven will work wonders if you're united instead of spread out all over the place.

    On a home borderland the average tag is just there to get bags for his blob. So just write the tag and his crew off as only going where the action is heaviest. But depending on your match-up and how fat the enemy server is, they're probably going to have several smaller bands two to five or even five to ten running around and taking things wherever your tag isn't. Contrary to what anybody says this is important.

    So if your tag is being that way then go to wherever they aren't with your band of misfits and re flip or defend anything they aren't. You'll still get participation and advancement for whatever reward track you're on, you'll still get fights. And if by chance it turns out the tag finds his blob is a bit too thin to fight the enemy blob at the time? Well that's just tough cheese, isn't it?

    While I agree on your solutions for them I don't fault the tag for playing to win in a competitive game mode.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭

    @Limodriver.4106 said:

    I guess you don't tag?

    Anyone who knows how to WvW wouldnt follow a Ranger anyway.

    Who said anything about Ranger's leading?!?

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @hobotnicax.7918 said:
    I see people still don't know how to play soulbeast properly in WvW.
    Soulbeast is fantastic in a zerg, top 3 class for melee damage in a zerg.
    I saw someone say in this thread that with a dps meter you'd be bottom? What, the, f? What are you people playing?
    Melee soulbeast outputs upper mid table damage while still being tanky af and also offering some support, cc, reflects.
    When I played pure glass backline ranger GS/LB I've been top dps in blob fights so many times I stopped counting.
    Positioning is key.

    Honestly all this ranger hate in WvW is because terrible players come to the game mode and play badly. Yet I've seen more bad rallybot necros, revs and eles in WvW than rangers. But somehow they go unnoticed cause they play meta builds... or are they? How would you know? You assume they're using it, you assume they know how to play their role in a zerg.

    Core ranger, I agree, no place in a zerg unfortunately. Druid can be useful with hard cc and heal. Soulbeast is imo top 4 classes for WvW zerg. Again, if built and played right.

    Don't believe me? Come to Vabbi, get on my tag and join the revolution.

    Dude... I've been top dps on literary every build i played. Yeah even minstrel mesmer... Doesn't say much if it happens once per full moon.

    Which guild are you playing for?

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    The rallybot has honestly been overblown. It's limited to 1 rally = 1 death now. In the past when you could have had some bad come in and rally 5 people on the other side yes, that sucks, but now the effect is greatly netered and not that noticable outside of small scale. Nowadays bads get 0-pushed and die at the start of the fight. They can't rally anyone. Especially with that mount insta-finish now.

    If your group is losing due to rallies and you aren't severely outnumbered, stop making excuses and have better down management.

    Also, you might be the best ranger in the world, but who would know? The commander cannot interview 30 people every time they run. You just have to make yourself known and maybe they'll understand.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    Lets say 5-10 people tag you. Then you die because of your build and not your skill. Well then you just rallied 5-10 people.

    You are out of date, they changed how rally works quite some time ago, in WvW a person can only rally one opponent now regardless of how many tagged them.

  • @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

    I disagree here. Non-SOP characters are very effective when used well. The problem is for the number of competent commanders out there, there's also a lot of incompetent commanders who can't make good use of the resources they do have. You can completely flip a meta group onto it's head with a hodge podge zerg of random kitten with tactics made on the fly.

    Another note that is often forgotten, is that taking what is meta, does not mean you are guaranteed to win. If the player in the build knows nothing about the class, or the build, or lacks general skills. Then it's just as effective as running into a fight naked.

  • Rabbi Rick.3194Rabbi Rick.3194 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2019

    Just don't join the squads -- 90 percent of the commanders who say no rangers, and "rangers just do one target" don't know the first #*($ thing about playing a ranger. Run along side a group for awhile, or go off on your own. Metas are for mindless drones and meat shields that have no clue how to actually play a class dynamically, only play their "rotations." i.e. trained monkeys taught to stand in one place and hit keys in the same order - over and over and over and over ---ad nauseum.

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:

    @Princ.3598 said:
    I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

    To be perfectly honest.
    98% of the time, having no ranger is better then having one.

    Simply because a bad ranger does more harm then good thanks to reflects.

    And rangers that enter WvW are either new, roamers or trolling the commander.

    Rangers have a extremely bad reputation in WvW and that for a good reason.

    Bad players have bad raps. Bad Rangers don’t help.

    But good Rangers are ALWAYS welcome where I play. Anyone that thinks Rangers don’t have any place in a squad simply are short sighted and have tunnel vision.

    I laugh at squads that come to cap structures that don’t have ranger support... the siege that would be gone if me and my subsquad were there lives... and they get driven off.

    If all you want is fights period then Rangers, I agree, can be a problem if not played right. But wvw is rarely fights only except for a handful of guilds and elite superhero wannabes.

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Don't listen to people telling you to play meta or GTFO. This is part of why we have such thin populations in this game mode. Because these tossers have driven everyone away to the point where all they did is hope from map to map fighting the same blob, circling here or there and getting high off the smell of each other's farts in their VOIP of choice.

    My suggestion to you is to ignore the tag. If you get the other people on the map who are also roaming together especially on a home borderland it's actually more beneficial to have a secondary blob of say ten to fifteen. Even five to seven will work wonders if you're united instead of spread out all over the place.

    On a home borderland the average tag is just there to get bags for his blob. So just write the tag and his crew off as only going where the action is heaviest. But depending on your match-up and how fat the enemy server is, they're probably going to have several smaller bands two to five or even five to ten running around and taking things wherever your tag isn't. Contrary to what anybody says this is important.

    So if your tag is being that way then go to wherever they aren't with your band of misfits and re flip or defend anything they aren't. You'll still get participation and advancement for whatever reward track you're on, you'll still get fights. And if by chance it turns out the tag finds his blob is a bit too thin to fight the enemy blob at the time? Well that's just tough cheese, isn't it?

    While I agree on your solutions for them I don't fault the tag for playing to win in a competitive game mode.

    But on average the tag isn't trying to win, are they? At least not the game mode. Any more than they were in DAoC when roaming Emain Macha for quick fights. They're busy getting bags/world exp for the crew of their pirate ship so they won't mutiny, hence the borderland hopping. Not that there aren't exceptions to prove the rule, but it's why most nights Eternal Battlegrounds is the only BL with a queue.

    Perhaps if what constituted 'winning the mode' wasn't such a nebulous concept. Well not that nebulous as it means out scoring your opponent in PPT and going up the ladder. But that's sort of meaningless now, isn't it? Most of the time this is cast aside because -without turning this into a match-ups thread- nobody wants to go up tier and get stuck against an unfairly stacked server for a week or more. They'd rather go seal clubbing against pairings less able to handle them as opponents in order to keep the bags/wexp flowing.

    I suppose ultimately, apart from the profession and population balance nightmares, if we had a point to playing that a majority could agree upon -one besides ranking up for ranking up's sake- the mode would be in less trouble than it's in. /shrug

    One difference I see, as it was in DAoC, is a matter of philospohy. Some people are still trying to play on maps as though winning/realm defence matters and other just don't care as much and want to pass what for them, is just a good time, even if that means staying in EB to the detriment of PPT score because they see no point in it.

    Neither's completely wrong. It just shows up the lack of care/attention to the game mode ANet's given over the years -that even in light of the pitfalls of DAoC and other similar games- they've allowed WvW to fall into the same traps by not facilitating/incentiveising objective defence more than they have.

  • xZombieTaco.5809xZombieTaco.5809 Member ✭✭✭

    The issue is the way boon priority works. If you're in a squad the closest 5 people get boons. If 3/5 of those people are in your sub group those 3 get priority then randomly selects 2 close people.

    If a ranger is on top of tag, and a Scourge is off by just 50 units, the scourge won't get boons when the scourge DESPERATELY needs the stability to be effective in fights.

    When I tag, if I have rangers etc, I tend to put them in a sub group by themselves, and ask someone to tag targets to pew pew single target snipe.

    But again, ranger in general isn't very good for large scale fights, which is why most commanders don't even want them in the squad, because it takes away vital aspects other classes need to be optimal.

  • Duckota.4769Duckota.4769 Member ✭✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:
    Lets say 5-10 people tag you. Then you die because of your build and not your skill. Well then you just rallied 5-10 people.

    You are out of date, they changed how rally works quite some time ago, in WvW a person can only rally one opponent now regardless of how many tagged them.

    You're right. My bad, but my point -kind of- still remains. Just not as drastic as my earlier comment by far :)

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:

    @Duckota.4769 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Don't listen to people telling you to play meta or GTFO. This is part of why we have such thin populations in this game mode. Because these tossers have driven everyone away to the point where all they did is hope from map to map fighting the same blob, circling here or there and getting high off the smell of each other's farts in their VOIP of choice.

    My suggestion to you is to ignore the tag. If you get the other people on the map who are also roaming together especially on a home borderland it's actually more beneficial to have a secondary blob of say ten to fifteen. Even five to seven will work wonders if you're united instead of spread out all over the place.

    On a home borderland the average tag is just there to get bags for his blob. So just write the tag and his crew off as only going where the action is heaviest. But depending on your match-up and how fat the enemy server is, they're probably going to have several smaller bands two to five or even five to ten running around and taking things wherever your tag isn't. Contrary to what anybody says this is important.

    So if your tag is being that way then go to wherever they aren't with your band of misfits and re flip or defend anything they aren't. You'll still get participation and advancement for whatever reward track you're on, you'll still get fights. And if by chance it turns out the tag finds his blob is a bit too thin to fight the enemy blob at the time? Well that's just tough cheese, isn't it?

    While I agree on your solutions for them I don't fault the tag for playing to win in a competitive game mode.

    But on average the tag isn't trying to win, are they? At least not the game mode. Any more than they were in DAoC when roaming Emain Macha for quick fights. They're busy getting bags/world exp for the crew of their pirate ship so they won't mutiny, hence the borderland hopping. Not that there aren't exceptions to prove the rule, but it's why most nights Eternal Battlegrounds is the only BL with a queue.

    Perhaps if what constituted 'winning the mode' wasn't such a nebulous concept. Well not that nebulous as it means out scoring your opponent in PPT and going up the ladder. But that's sort of meaningless now, isn't it? Most of the time this is cast aside because -without turning this into a match-ups thread- nobody wants to go up tier and get stuck against an unfairly stacked server for a week or more. They'd rather go seal clubbing against pairings less able to handle them as opponents in order to keep the bags/wexp flowing.

    I suppose ultimately, apart from the profession and population balance nightmares, if we had a point to playing that a majority could agree upon -one besides ranking up for ranking up's sake- the mode would be in less trouble than it's in. /shrug

    One difference I see, as it was in DAoC, is a matter of philospohy. Some people are still trying to play on maps as though winning/realm defence matters and other just don't care as much and want to pass what for them, is just a good time, even if that means staying in EB to the detriment of PPT score because they see no point in it.

    Neither's completely wrong. It just shows up the lack of care/attention to the game mode ANet's given over the years -that even in light of the pitfalls of DAoC and other similar games- they've allowed WvW to fall into the same traps by not facilitating/incentiveising objective defence more than they have.

    It's not about not wanting to go up a tier, but doing that for 7 years is just plain boring, especially because you don't get anything for it, hell even a freaking achivement is not present. Last time i got something for winning a matchup that i cared about was the golden dolyak finisher that i still have 476 of.

    I enjoy fights more, most commanders that are worth a kitten are in guilds which also makes them very near to my state of mind and don't care about ppt, but about good fights, which is where only fun in wvw you can get is.

    About kicking stuff. Just put on a good guild tag, you will never get kicked again and will most likely even be in commanders party. Oh you can't? Than don't question the commander, because he has way more experience than you do.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Princ.3598 said:
    (Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

    Hi,

    First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

    The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

    It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

    EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

    Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

    Thoughts?

    Well what are your thoughts on an exotic Cleric Warrior in a PvE Raid wing?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are times I don't join the zerg and just follow them for loot. I play hammer rev.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @hobotnicax.7918 said:
    I see people still don't know how to play soulbeast properly in WvW.
    Soulbeast is fantastic in a zerg, top 3 class for melee damage in a zerg.
    I saw someone say in this thread that with a dps meter you'd be bottom? What, the, f? What are you people playing?
    Melee soulbeast outputs upper mid table damage while still being tanky af and also offering some support, cc, reflects.
    When I played pure glass backline ranger GS/LB I've been top dps in blob fights so many times I stopped counting.
    Positioning is key.

    Honestly all this ranger hate in WvW is because terrible players come to the game mode and play badly. Yet I've seen more bad rallybot necros, revs and eles in WvW than rangers. But somehow they go unnoticed cause they play meta builds... or are they? How would you know? You assume they're using it, you assume they know how to play their role in a zerg.

    Core ranger, I agree, no place in a zerg unfortunately. Druid can be useful with hard cc and heal. Soulbeast is imo top 4 classes for WvW zerg. Again, if built and played right.

    Don't believe me? Come to Vabbi, get on my tag and join the revolution.

    Strangely enough, Vabbi build site had an "omegalul" on ranger section on builds. Now it explains why you shouldnt play ranger. If you were top dps as ranger, your weavers, necros and heralds sucked horribly, sorry. There is nothing a ranger can do in zergs that another class cant do better. Also do not compare bad players with proper build classes against great players with no blobclasses. When speaking of players at the same skill level, ranger will be always outdpssed, outhealed, outcced. The fact that YOU know how to play a ranger well, speaks for a tiny minority of the class. A mediocre scourge is still more useful than a good ranger.
    And ranger being top 4 blobclass,i am not buying it. Firebrand, scourge, herald, weaver, fl dd, spellbreaker, healengi, healtemp do stuff better than a ranger. That is objective.

    And yet a decent ranger could pinsnipe the tag and make the enemy zerg crumble..
    99% of rangers are bad at blobbing but there are a few good ones out there that know what to bring and what to do at keytimes such as barrage on the push or knockback shot on the enemy commander or even just tanking up with stone on the push and dropping a maul to WI to instantly down everyone around you for a bag cleann up.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

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