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WvW commanders/guilds kicking non-meta classes.


Princ.3598

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(Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

Hi,

First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

Thoughts?

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@Loosmaster.8263 said:SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but what happens its because meta in gw2 is called by this name cause it is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.If overperforms player quality its meta, if not kick...

Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

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@derd.6413 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Not this topic again....Let me guess. Ranger?

soulbeast

I know my WvW QQ.

But back to topic.

You can play currently without any questions asked in zergs:

FirebrandBoth Rev Elite SpecsSpellbreakerScourgeBoth Ele elite specsChronoDaredevilScrapper

I think there are enough choices here.

And yes we get it, Ranger is not part of this list.

Reason?Not a single viable weapon for zerging.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but
what happens its because meta is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.

Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

And that's why I don't play META, I do my own thing and don't join squads either. Sometimes I like to follow them to watch them wipe tho, lol.

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@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:SOP= Standard Operating Procedures. If you're not running a META class or build, you are useless. Regardless if the squad is full or not.

Problem is the meta way to play the game or GTFO, this behaviour happens due awfull class design, because one thing is a meta existing for being sightly better or counters some behaviours/tactics, but
what happens its because meta is the only thing that works AKA stack aoe and spam faster than targets.

Its a design and balance issue... its a dev quality problem, the reason why this behavior exists.

And that's why I don't play META, I do my own thing and don't join squads either. Sometimes I like to follow them to watch them wipe tho, lol.

It's funny people say WvW has alot of builds, where every one tends to converge to the same builds and classes :}

/irony.

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People do not want to waste their available support on a (selfish) class that neither needs nor substantially profits from it. Better to support classes that can actually have a major impact on the fight as they have access to relevant amounts of AoE damage.Regardless of soulbeasts (in-)effectiveness, it doesn’t need stability or other support to do whatever it is that it does. Only exception would be sharing stances but I’d guess (= I have no idea) that they are not powerful enough to make up for the lackluster weapon skills.It’s not about attitude, it is about the expected increase in group performance which is negligible in the case of supporting a soulbeast. It’s actually better to have soulbeasts without subgroup aka outside the squad (compared to those ranger only subgroups that commanders like to make) as they will share their stances with closeby allies instead of prioritizing the other rangers.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:sounds like a poor attitude. some people aren't fit for leading.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Welcome to WvW and I hope you stay despite the bitter pill all newcomers have to swallow.

Thanks, I tried to look at it from the bright side. Made my own little party of rangers following the zerg and we just called targets and melted people.

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@Princ.3598 said:I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

To be perfectly honest.98% of the time, having no ranger is better then having one.

Simply because a bad ranger does more harm then good thanks to reflects.

And rangers that enter WvW are either new, roamers or trolling the commander.

Rangers have a extremely bad reputation in WvW and that for a good reason.

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Your mileage and zerg will vary server to server. Since you said this is a large guild group its not surprising. And if a tag is trying to control who they have in their squad, its their squad and that's fine but they don't have a right to tell you what you are running if you are not in their squad. No on a very PUG friendly server, there are Soulbeats in the zergs and havocs. Soulbeasts are nice counters to Necro's of various sorts.

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@Princ.3598 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:sounds like a poor attitude. some people aren't fit for leading.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Welcome to WvW and I hope you stay despite the bitter pill all newcomers have to swallow.

Thanks, I tried to look at it from the bright side. Made my own little party of rangers following the zerg and we just called targets and melted people.

Exactly. Off-havoc with them from your zerg and burn down the other zerg's Necros, it's a blast. And you know its working the enemy zerg turns on you and your zerg eats their flank, priceless.

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@"Princ.3598" said:(Posted this on reddit but will here aswell to maybe hear more opinions)

Hi,

First off I would like to say I'm a fairly new player to WvW, but not the game or PvP (plat there). I have played WvW before but just to get my legendary weapon. Since the mount came out I tried WvW again and found that It's enjoyable if done correctly, especially with coordinated teams in discord.

The thing is..I'm a soulbeast. And the commanders don't want me in their teams. In our server, there is one prevalent guild that runs WvW and tags and I got told to basically switch to meta wvw classes or else I'm just not welcome in the raid. So after waiting in a 50-100man queue, all I can do is try to follow the commander as some outcasted class that shouldnt be there in the first place.

It definitely shifted my perspective on WvW a bit. While I understand where they are coming from since the goal is to..win. Just doesnt feel good.

EDIT: I would just like to add that I'm talking about the scenario of a squad not being full. So 35/50, otherwise I would gladly leave a spot for a meta class honestly.

Is this a common occurence on your servers aswell?

Thoughts?

Just to point out that SoulBeast (and a few others), generally works best outside of the main zergball anyways. So the optimal way to play them, is exactly as you did, make a own group and run around the sides and kill stuff that gets out of formation. And you don't need a spot in the Squad for that.

One of the main uses for the squad, is to share buffs, as the game will prioritize buffs internally in the squad first, before sharing with other nearby players outside of the squad. Thus they keep the classes that most needs the buffs (most of the meta zerg classes) in the squad, and kicks out other classes that doesn't need/rely on those boons, like Soulbeast.

Unfortunately since most gamers doesn't have the best social skills at times, and get easily impatient, they often skip explaining this and just kick people and tell them to get back on meta! Certainly not the most constructive way of explaining things, but at the same time, if this happens 10+ times in an evening, you do get tired of typing it out.

If there are no other commanders that group up, your choices are either to play something zerg meta, or keep roaming/havoc. It really depend upon the commander/guild group that runs. Some groups will still take you into squad but put you in a "gank squad" a own sub group with classes that doesn't give/need group boons for example.

Sorry if you had a bad experience with WvW, hope you'll still try it, and look around for a wvw guild you can run with, that tends to make things a lot more fun.

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Squads are made for boonshare and heals. Back then, when squads didn't exist, people had to form their own parties. In particular, heralds and necros gain much more effectiveness when put in a party with stability .

On most non-meta classes, they just don't share the right boons and often do not need to stack on zerg and can't recieve/boons or heals anyways. There's basically no point for you to be in the squad. It's not like people can hop to another instance, or kick you from a map.

Basically, if you don't know why you need to be in a squad, it doesn't really affect your performance either.

However, I will say ever since Stand Your Ground becomes 10 targets, it's really not that big of a deal...

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As long as the downed/rally mechanic exists in the game commanders will not want tag-along or non-optimized players. The only time it really matters beyond the rally issue is on a q'd map vs an enemy q'd map or strong guild group.

Rally needs to go. Downed state skills need to go. Downed state underwater needs to go. Downed twice in two minutes, dead. Same downed HP for all classes. There fixed most of it.

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@Princ.3598 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:sounds like a poor attitude. some people aren't fit for leading.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Welcome to WvW and I hope you stay despite the bitter pill all newcomers have to swallow.

Thanks, I tried to look at it from the bright side. Made my own little party of rangers following the zerg and we just called targets and melted people.

That's how you should take it and do it. I hope more people follows your example.

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You don't have to be in squad to follow tag but if you do want to be in squad, then do as the romans do.

Squads are supposedly reserved for meta classes so meta players can get the necessary boons to keep them alive for pushes and bombs while maximizing their AOE dps. Naturally, in pug scenario, you don't have 9999 firebrands so the boons are actually VERY limited. Therefore there is really no reason for you to have any of such boons if you are not gonna provide comparable returns for having it.

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If they're strictly fight focused and/or the squad is full, I can kind of understand. Commanders that don't know how to make use of non-blob classes/builds to scout, flip sentries, camps, and paper towers to control the map baffle me.

While it's not a direct translation, if you can operate your class at Plat level you're much more valuable to everyone on that then a blob class you don't know for the sake of being on a blob class.

Just do your own thing and have fun, call out any scouting information in map chat.

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