scrapper aside - the real problems of this game are not even acknowledged yet

Despite me trying to make you understand what the real problems of this game are it still goes unnoticed and people just abuse it on a daily basis. And yes, the real problems of this game are- NO LINE OF SIGHT TELEPORTS THAT ALLOW YOU TO CAST A BURST TIED TO THEM AND HAVE NO CAST TIME - i put it like this so people can see it clearly because it usually just gets ignored for some reason

Skills like STEAL and PHASE TRAVERSAL and JUDGE"S INTERVENTION are just COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS. In any other game having skills like these is considered BROKEN, its an " ultimate " even without being able to burst but you can burst. There isn't a single game on this planet where skills like those exist and are not considered ludicrously broken and usually have huge cooldown or some drawbacks except Gw2. Those skills are a relic of an ancient design and the game has evolved way past it and that's why they need to change.Maybe in 2012 when the game was made those skills weren't problematic but now they are and it isn't just because of the skill design but also by the extra effects added to them

• Revenant's dmg paired with phase traversal is just absurd , a revenant with enhanced daggers and staff 5 can do 15k dmg with iframe and aoe knockdown while dodging attacks and then use a unrelenting assault to do 20k+ dmg in total while in FULL IFRAME while having NO CD STUNBREAK + IFRAME (if needed to escape, assassins retreat) while also having another low cd stunbreak (invoke legend). Phase traversal alone ok but paired up with safety and disengage and with absurd unblockable dmg is just way too much, it's way too broken, everyone fotm rerolled to revenant, revenants constantly reach 1.9k solo in soloq because the class is broken beyond any reason. The dmg is too high and that alone could be negligible but it's not alone and there are too many factors. On top of that revenant's supposed drawback is lack of condi removal but condi removal is shared so you can easily enable it with some teammates and also condi has received repeated nerfs over the years and is not good at all. Even before the last nerf condi was outnumbered 9:1 by power and now with mirage being much worse the ratio only grows
• I might be wrong here but i dont remember thief having poison on steal back when the game released, nor daze, those were traits added later and when steal was designed they didn't expect the skill to put a heal debuff (poison) while also soft-ccing and RIPPING BOONS (that was also added later), including stability, while also even being paired up with a damaging skill. I don't think they even expected thieves to learn to ani cancel offensive skills while using steal but it happened and such mechanics are fine in a game but the rest buffs were added later and over time the skill got ridiculous. Thief also has a ton of ways to disengage and escape fights and in general can't be punished unless random power spikes or player error so it's not like they pay a price for having such a broken skill

On top of all that the CD of these skills is LAUGHABLY low (5 and 20 seconds). Judge's intervention is also a problem and guardian is stupidly overstated as well but at least its mobility is much worse and it cant disengage as much so it's ARGUABLY BETTER, the cd is also much higher on it and it also got a big nerf last patch (even if its still good)

The only things that counter thief and rev + 1 burst are people with lots of defensive stats (scrappers) and both playing a defensive build and against a defensive build is boring for both sides. I'm not saying the game should only have offensive builds but it shouldn't be so exreme and it should stay on a middle ground.

Right now 90% of the builds in the game are either full damage cheese damage (sickem rangers, rev, thief, even guards with marauder, holo) etc or full tank/defense with little offense(weaver, scrapper, fb etc). So long as you can +1 people as easily as thief/rev can the game will never be competitive or good because surviving a gank by a good rev is impossible, you can't kite the class cus phase traversal is 5 sec cd and cus they have so much cc and unblockable and so much dmg. You can't play the game unless your team can perfectly match the enemy so that your temporary 1v2 buys them advantage but that's just never going to happen in soloq and even in competitive having to rely on everyone in your team to play his role perfectly is just too much just so you can have fun? Ganking is already too strong cus 2v1 is a monumental advantage but ganking with no line of sight burst teleports is stupid

i watched a documentary once on some katana guy or it was an archer guy or something(w/e) i forgot and he said what i already knew and what more people should know - reflex/reaction is mostly anticipation. If you expect something to happen and are ready to ' react ' then you'll be much faster. If you don't expect it then you'll be much slower and it's humanly impossible to react as fast as you can if you expect it. The only way you can react to a thief/rev is if you actually know in which window they'll approximately show up which requires huge communication which is unreasonable to ask out of soloq and again - having to rely on 4 other people just so you can have a chance of having fun is too much.Ganking in league or dota for example isn't nowhere as easy and if there were champs that could just teleport up to an enemy with 50%+ of their hp burst they would be picked/banned every single game, no exception, they would be severely broken for good reason. Just imagine a thief/revenant from gw2 in league of legends, it'll break the game. 20 sec cd no line of sight steal that can be casted from fog with burst that does 50%+ of people's hp and even has a cc effect

either add cast time with warning (on the target, like a red circle or something) or nerf the damage or remove some aspects (cc/unblockable/whatever) and increase the cd or add line of sight requirement

and as a bonus while i'm talking about relics of another age and concepts designed for a game that gw2 no longer is (because it's changed and evolved over the years) - the " healing power " stat is also designed for the past and not what we have now. Back in the day regeneration and heals were actually rare so getting healing power was a trade off and it wasn't as broken as it is now. With hot/pof and rework on skills now most classes have permanent regeneration boon and healing power stat just breaks that and people have insane regeneration all the time. Regeneration itself isnt bad but with healing power it gets too much so everyone has insane sustain. When these concepts (steal,phase traversal ,healing power etc all sorts of issues like this which i wont go into in this thread) were designed we had different stats and stat scaling (damage/traits and ccs and so on) and maybe back in the day they worked but now they wouldnt

also in the end - i might get people disagreeing with me because i mentioned almost every class in the game and all the current meta (which is broken ganks and also never ending sustain) so it probably affects most people and most people cant be fair or subjective so they'll find ways to disagree even if they know what i'm saying is actually right

Oh boiyou ll be surprise how much hate you ll get for saying thatspeaking about blinks and teleport skills is a taboo in gw2speaking about OP rev is taboo and their defense is herald is the only "viable" build in current PvPspeaking about guardian Judge's intervention is taboo their defense is guardian is the "slowest" profession in the game (not true tho necro is the slowest)speaking abou............................i am bored writing the same thing over and over in the forum and no change at all

its all powercreep

Oh everyone knows about these problems. Its just that if anyone defends those skills they are in denial or just want to keep cheesing them to win. Also people don't bring it up as much as they should because pvpers are like beaten dogs: They know anet won't do anything about it so what's the use complaining.

gw2 perfectly summed up lmao

2 revs, 2 scrappers, afk teammate , it doesn't get any more gw2 than that. Good joke of a patch

biggest irony was that the enemy rev (a complete random nobody that i've never seen) was talking about skill and about how rev isn't a good class

and this was the 2nd game in a row with 2 revs enemies and with an afk teammate

i got instaq and i have 2 completely new revs in the game again

heeeeeerrree weeeee gooooooooooo

Lmao forums never cease to be entertaining,yes remove steal teleport,nerf thief more as their wet noodle damage/garbage sustain is too much for thos guy :) take away infiltrators arrow too cuz the short bow does far too much dps as well,not to mention the crazy sword damage and let’s not mention pistols dps deleting people left and right. Cant arena net tell how op pistols are with all the thief pistol builds around? Seriously lol

They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

Just waiting for "remove dodges" thread because its OP people can dodge.

They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

Just waiting for "remove dodges" thread because its OP people can dodge.

Not to nitpick, but Phase Traversal is not instant cast. This is a very different skill from JI and Steal, which can be used mid animation in order to all but guarantee no Dodge from a surprise attack.

Phase Traversal->[skill] can readily be dodged even when ambushed.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

Not "suddenly". It's been a problem for a while, but the culprit isn't the teleport itself - the problem is the power creep which has happened around the teleport skills.

It used to be that you teleported and had a fairly glass build to do damage. Once the window after the teleport was over, you had to run away or kite because your defenses were limited. Now it's a not-so-glass build with 20+ might applying 15+ vuln to you along with multiple stacked skills landing with the teleport. And it can CC after and avoid or heal a large amount of damage. Medi guard had some of this toned down and now it's in a much more reasonable spot.

@Highlie.7641 said:Another perfect example of why they shouldn't of made every profession completely brain dead for players like the OP.

Yes indeed, it's been years and revenant/thief players have still not figured out that they're a melee class and what field depth and distance is cause every skill is a teleport anyway LmAO. Imagine if a thief ever tried to reroll to warrior or engineer or some class that can actually be kited, he would be in wonderland and would cry to go back home.

IMAGINE HAVING TO WALK IN GW2 LOLTHIS MEM3 WAS M4D3 BY 7HE TEEF GANG

@"sephiroth.4217" said:They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

Just waiting for "remove dodges" thread because its OP people can dodge.

that was sort of the point of this thread? They're suddenly op (not suddenly but increasingly more since HoT) because the damage in the game has increased, they reworked traits and added more dmg to all sorts of traits. They also added daze/poison/boon steal on steal for example, revenant has been getting buffed for the last 3 years despite not needing buffs for more than a year now because it's been broken as hell ever since

there's also the boon application going thru the roof, back in the day running around with 25 might stacks was unheard of (except like dd ele at some point) and now having 25 might stacks is normal for every 2nd class

@Exedore.6320 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

So why not nerf the power creep?removing teleport won't stop the might stacking and power creep.

We want to Nerf Lightning Flash to deal with Phase Traversal, please don't screw my tempest over even more lol

Guard one is fine the CD and their dmg are decent

just the rev one is so broken when it's played by high plat.

ironically scrapper is only thing that can tank their dmg

@"incisorr.9502" said:

• I might be wrong here but i dont remember thief having poison on steal back when the game released, nor daze, those were traits added later and when steal was designed they didn't expect the skill to put a heal debuff (poison) while also soft-ccing and RIPPING BOONS (that was also added later), including stability, while also even being paired up with a damaging skill. I don't think they even expected thieves to learn to ani cancel offensive skills while using steal but it happened and such mechanics are fine in a game but the rest buffs were added later and over time the skill got ridiculous. Thief also has a ton of ways to disengage and escape fights and in general can't be punished unless random power spikes or player error so it's not like they pay a price for having such a broken skill

Serpent touch (poison on steal), mug (heal on steal), improvisation (recharge skills on steal), hidden thief (stealth on steal), Kleptomaniac (gain initiative on steal), Thrill of the crime (grant might, fury and swiftness to 5 nearby allies on steal), bountiful theft (grant vigor and 3 stolen boon to up to 5 nearby allies) and sleight of hand (daze on steal) have been here since release of the game in 2012.

Bewildering ambush (confusion on steal) have been added in 2014 at the same time as a few traits like necromancer's unholy sanctuary or warrior's phalanx strength.

If anything, the poison effect and the confusion effect have been tuned down with HoT. That said, Thrill of crime give a bit more might than it used to (which was put there to balance loss of damage/stat from signets if I recall properly) and bountiful theft steal 1 more boon than it used to steal (A way to counter the fact that boons are a lot cheaper than they used to be on most professions).

Most thieves didn't play those boon/condition on steal traits because it didn't fit their view of "what a thief should do" and there were different options that fit these point of view better. However, it doesn't mean that those trait didn't exist and some unconventional thieves didn't used them.

@"incisorr.9502"

It's ridiculous how you still keep talking about all the classes being op while you didn't even play any of these on decent lvl and you know nothing about them. I would just ask you to stop this bulshit you keep spamming over and over again. Or make a real point by playing them. I challanged you once already to play Rev during season and make it to top 10 to prove your point. But all you did was abusing the most broken build in history of gw2 and yet you dare to defend it. Here comes yours "most people cant be fair or subjective so they'll find ways to disagree" , that is you typically when 90% of the community agreed on mirage being broken.

Just go ahead and play Rev or Thief or whatever you called OP and make it to top 10 or over 1,9k+ and then we might take you seriously. I really can't stand ppl like you who always pick the cheapest class and build and brag about others being OP.

I really enjoy pre-loading my steal with all manner of things on Thief - I consider it the "next step" for a new player when they start doing this. I find Thief to be a bit too mechanically simplistic otherwise as initiative management isn't particularly compelling. So removing pre-cast steals would make the class far less enjoyable.

However, I do agree with the LOS abuse - it is quite unfair at times. Teleporting through a wall and up a stair case to land considerable damage out of nowhere is agreeably unpalatable, especially as GW2 combat is designed for reacting readily to and trying to avoid these big damage skills. But the problem with making these skills uphold more LOS rules is that they'll simply not work in cases where they most certainly should. I'm just thinking about all the times in sPvP and WvW where a pebble has counted as a wall and I've had no LOS for another skill and it's made me cry inside. Shudder the thought that my steal would suffer the same fate!

Best leave it untouched and just...accept that you might die instantly from a teleport burst through the floor. I know, not great but shrugs.

stopped reading after the scrapper aside and the connection of revenant and high dpsplz play some high dps bersi rev in platin and watch how fast you can die when 4 ppl attacking you in cc chain

@incisorr.9502

Well I don't create new topics over and over to complain about classes I don't play/know nothing about do I?

And about rank, I frankly don't give a kitten about rank, but checking it, i am currently sitting 88 ranks above you (rank 61 atm), so if I am low, you dear sir, are even lower. And that's how it's going to be if a build can't carry you anymore, just how @dominik.9721 said. You see ... ppl know what you are :-)

@incisorr.9502 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:Another perfect example of why they shouldn't of made every profession completely brain dead for players like the OP.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:They have been fundamental skills for 6 years now, why are they suddenly OP now?

Just waiting for "remove dodges" thread because its OP people can dodge.

I can answer u as a ex thief player of 3 yrs :) when I rerolled to guard and Engie I was ecstatic at the fact I could do actual damage and fight someone without stealth backstabbing to make any dents in the opponents hp :) doing the same one skill over and over to do any damage was boring, as even popping Assassin signet in maurader gear on a s/d build was garbage. Jump in evade some attacks,stun opponent and do auto’s while watching their hp barely move and than use unblockable 3 to than see sweet still barely any hp movement get hit by one attack and almost be downed so gotta disengage than try stealthing for a backstab same ol crap,goes for all thief weapons.only thing that may help u mid fight I a decent steal but usually garbage too,powercreep and nerfs has made everything but permastealth backstabbed garbage so yeah it’s glorious for a thief when he re rolls cuz he can actually kill stuff without having to disengage or back stab spam :) and anoth plus is mobility has been handed out like candy to most classes so the mobility is barely missed :)

Mirage may have a high skill ceiling but any one can pick it up and within a hr do far better in duels and 1vx than they’d normally be doing on their mains most times lmao we’ve all done it,it’s no secret. I powerboosted a mesmer and made both power and Condi Mirage and went into wvw and was amazed at how faceroll it was,power was bit harder but both were way easier to be successful with than thief,guard etc and not just a little easier a huge margin lol I lost a few fights but man roaming and picking people off was child’s play,the class is bloated and deserved its nerfs for sure,though arenet shoulda listen to mirage players more regarding the nerfs cuz seems still over performing

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:Not to nitpick, but Phase Traversal is not instant cast. This is a very different skill from JI and Steal, which can be used mid animation in order to all but guarantee no Dodge from a surprise attack.

Phase Traversal->[skill] can readily be dodged even when ambushed.

Except that PT can still be used without LoS and to top it all off, the Rev doesn't even get an Icon on their bar when starting the cast to alert the foe of their intentions if the player cannot see the rev but still has him targeted.

I admire your tenacity but you're preaching to deaf ears. GW2 isn't going to change. The power creep isn't going away. What we have now will stay. It's up to you to draw your own conclusions.

You do know right that phase traversal isn't an instant cast skill and has an animation time? Meaning you can't use it while performing any other action.

Have you even played Thief? This thread gave me heartburn