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@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.

Dude stop playing defense so hard for scrapper. You aren't fooling any one. This has been put to a vote. You can't have no class swapping before the match starts because you end up with games where you have double thief, or double firebrand support, or tempest support+firebrand support and your team composition is completely unviable. Because the match maker can never be designed to be intelligent enough to understand the interplay between builds from all the players.

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Blue “should” have more than enough damage to pick off red 1 by 1 and barely scrape by with any deaths at all.

I assume what really happened is red scrappers got focused all game and blue team couldn’t coordinate damage good enough to get any kills. Red wins 500-200 and the game has like 8 deaths total?

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.

Dude stop playing defense so hard for scrapper. You aren't fooling any one. This has been put to a vote. You can't have no class swapping before the match starts because you end up with games where you have double thief, or double firebrand support, or tempest support+firebrand support and your team composition is completely unviable. Because the match maker can never be designed to be intelligent enough to understand the interplay between builds from all the players.

Nobody play defense against scrapper.One scrapper in a team even if my team doesn't have one is not a big deal, same as when I had 1 condi mirage or 1 boonbeast.The problems born when you have 2 or 3.Stacking is problematic.In that game the 3 scrappers probably bunkered all 3 caps and ez win, if there were only 1 scrapper the game was toxic.

You start the queue on as scrapper.The game will send you to map selection only when the matchmaker found other 4 unique professions in your team.And nobody can't switch to a profession already take, another guy can switch to holo or core engi, but not to scrapper because there is already one.In so many competitive games there is class reservation, because stacking particular classes is too overtuned and abusing.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.

Dude stop playing defense so hard for scrapper. You aren't fooling any one. This has been put to a vote. You can't have no class swapping before the match starts because you end up with games where you have double thief, or double firebrand support, or tempest support+firebrand support and your team composition is completely unviable. Because the match maker can never be designed to be intelligent enough to understand the interplay between builds from all the players.

Nobody play defense against scrapper.One scrapper in a team even if my team doesn't have one is not a big deal, same as when I had 1 condi mirage or 1 boonbeast.The problems born when you have 2 or 3.Stacking is problematic.In that game the 3 scrappers probably bunkered all 3 caps and ez win, if there were only 1 scrapper the game was toxic.

You start the queue on as scrapper.The game will send you to map selection only when the matchmaker found other 4 unique professions in your team.And nobody can't switch to a profession already take, another guy can switch to holo or core engi, but not to scrapper because there is already one.In so many competitive games there is class reservation, because stacking particular classes is too overtuned and abusing.

Again, this match maker doesn't work. At all. Because in ranked being a Core Guardian and a Support Firebrand on one team is perfectly viable despite the same profession. They have completely different roles, they aren't problematic when stacked. But a Support Firebrand and a Support Tempest being put onto the same team and neither of them being allowed to switch onto a class that will synergize better with the other more than double freaking support is going to be completely fucked despite them not stacking professions.

Or getting loaded with a core thief and a daredevil and neither of them being able to switch to anything else leaving the entire team fucked with a double thief comp despite your matchmaker deciding they're "unique professions" since by your own post, elite specializations count as unique professions. Heck often times Elite Specializations have multiple builds that fulfill multiple roles. Like SD Weaver is a completely different animal in what it contributes to a game than Fresh Air Weaver and there's nothing wrong with the match maker pairing them together. Same with Support Firebrand and Condition Firebrand. Or Boonbeast and Sic Em Sniper. Or GS Roaming Mirage and Chaos Duelist Mirage.

The problem is scrapper, not the match maker, at least in regards to pairing the professions together. At the end of the day if 30% of the playerbase is queueing on scrappers right now, 30% of the teams in all the matches simply have to be made up of scrappers.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.So fix the overtuned specs! No need to change matchmaking.

Which team won though? The suspense is killing me.

Like I now need to know this :I

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tbh i am surprised more ppl are not swapping to burst soul beast speced for unblockable attacks. The amount of burst you can pull off with gs followed up by rapid fire or whirlwind defence if full melee is absurd. If scrapers remain i wouldn't be surprised to see skills like signet of the hunt / fury come in to play.

My moneys is on red, they send 1 scrapper to each point after the initial team fight with the mirage roaming and the guardian doing whatever, probably debating the other team on all chat on why scraper is balanced and how matchmaking is not broken.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.

Dude stop playing defense so hard for scrapper. You aren't fooling any one. This has been put to a vote. You can't have no class swapping before the match starts because you end up with games where you have double thief, or double firebrand support, or tempest support+firebrand support and your team composition is completely unviable. Because the match maker can never be designed to be intelligent enough to understand the interplay between builds from all the players.

Nobody play defense against scrapper.One scrapper in a team even if my team doesn't have one is not a big deal, same as when I had 1 condi mirage or 1 boonbeast.The problems born when you have 2 or 3.Stacking is problematic.In that game the 3 scrappers probably bunkered all 3 caps and ez win, if there were only 1 scrapper the game was toxic.

You start the queue on as scrapper.The game will send you to map selection only when the matchmaker found other 4 unique professions in your team.And nobody can't switch to a profession already take, another guy can switch to holo or core engi, but not to scrapper because there is already one.In so many competitive games there is class reservation, because stacking particular classes is too overtuned and abusing.

Again, this match maker doesn't work. At all. Because in ranked being a Core Guardian and a Support Firebrand on one team is perfectly viable despite the same profession. They have completely different roles, they aren't problematic when stacked. But a Support Firebrand and a Support Tempest being put onto the same team and neither of them being allowed to switch onto a class that will synergize better with the other more than double freaking support is going to be completely kitten despite them not stacking professions.

Or getting loaded with a core thief and a daredevil and neither of them being able to switch to anything else leaving the entire team kitten with a double thief comp despite your matchmaker deciding they're "unique professions" since by your own post, elite specializations count as unique professions. Heck often times Elite Specializations have multiple builds that fulfill multiple roles. Like SD Weaver is a completely different animal in what it contributes to a game than Fresh Air Weaver and there's nothing wrong with the match maker pairing them together. Same with Support Firebrand and Condition Firebrand. Or Boonbeast and Sic Em Sniper. Or GS Roaming Mirage and Chaos Duelist Mirage.

The problem is scrapper, not the match maker, at least in regards to pairing the professions together. At the end of the day if 30% of the playerbase is queueing on scrappers right now, 30% of the teams in all the matches simply have to be made up of scrappers.

What's wrong with you?If there is a firebrand and support tempest, one of them can switch to thief to scourge to revenant, to whatever it's needed.Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.And having a firebrand and support tempest is not that bad, the firebrand camp mid with a scourge and the tempest act like support rotational noder and goes where it's needed.

A firebrand and a core guardian for my idea of matchmaking they are ALLOWED.Not only 1 guardian per team, but only 1 firebrand or only 1 core guardian or only 1 dragonhunter.In a team could be 1 firebrand, then a core guard, then a holosmith, then a scrapper and a revenant.But not 2 revs or 2 scrappers or 3.

If you didn't understand still I don't know what to anymore to you.

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@foste.3098 said:tbh i am surprised more ppl are not swapping to burst soul beast speced for unblockable attacks. The amount of burst you can pull off with gs followed up by rapid fire or whirlwind defence if full melee is absurd. If scrapers remain i wouldn't be surprised to see skills like signet of the hunt / fury come in to play.

My moneys is on red, they send 1 scrapper to each point after the initial team fight with the mirage roaming and the guardian doing whatever, probably debating the other team on all chat on why scraper is balanced and how matchmaking is not broken.

Was almost that, scrapper duo took close and mid, other scrapper gave support mid and far while we got farmed by the guard (at least I was) :)

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@whoknocks.4935 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:If they put a limitation on specs, only one per team this kitten stop and no need to balance anything...it's stacking overtuned specs that make pvp so unbalanced.

Dude stop playing defense so hard for scrapper. You aren't fooling any one. This has been put to a vote. You can't have no class swapping before the match starts because you end up with games where you have double thief, or double firebrand support, or tempest support+firebrand support and your team composition is completely unviable. Because the match maker can never be designed to be intelligent enough to understand the interplay between builds from all the players.

Nobody play defense against scrapper.One scrapper in a team even if my team doesn't have one is not a big deal, same as when I had 1 condi mirage or 1 boonbeast.The problems born when you have 2 or 3.Stacking is problematic.In that game the 3 scrappers probably bunkered all 3 caps and ez win, if there were only 1 scrapper the game was toxic.

You start the queue on as scrapper.The game will send you to map selection only when the matchmaker found other 4 unique professions in your team.And nobody can't switch to a profession already take, another guy can switch to holo or core engi, but not to scrapper because there is already one.In so many competitive games there is class reservation, because stacking particular classes is too overtuned and abusing.

Again, this match maker doesn't work. At all. Because in ranked being a Core Guardian and a Support Firebrand on one team is perfectly viable despite the same profession. They have completely different roles, they aren't problematic when stacked. But a Support Firebrand and a Support Tempest being put onto the same team and neither of them being allowed to switch onto a class that will synergize better with the other more than double freaking support is going to be completely kitten despite them not stacking professions.

Or getting loaded with a core thief and a daredevil and neither of them being able to switch to anything else leaving the entire team kitten with a double thief comp despite your matchmaker deciding they're "unique professions" since by your own post, elite specializations count as unique professions. Heck often times Elite Specializations have multiple builds that fulfill multiple roles. Like SD Weaver is a completely different animal in what it contributes to a game than Fresh Air Weaver and there's nothing wrong with the match maker pairing them together. Same with Support Firebrand and Condition Firebrand. Or Boonbeast and Sic Em Sniper. Or GS Roaming Mirage and Chaos Duelist Mirage.

The problem is scrapper, not the match maker, at least in regards to pairing the professions together. At the end of the day if 30% of the playerbase is queueing on scrappers right now, 30% of the teams in all the matches simply have to be made up of scrappers.

What's wrong with you?If there is a firebrand and support tempest, one of them can switch to thief to scourge to revenant, to whatever it's needed.What's wrong with me? What's wrong with
you
. You're the one saying "You fix scrapper by preventing class swap!"

If you prevent class swap they can't switch to thief, scourge, revenant. Like we're talking about your proposed system of locking people to the profession they queued as. You don't have prevent profession swap and have it at the same time. You're speaking nonsense.

Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.It doesn't matter how many builds you have under your belt in a system where you are locked to the class you queued on. Which is kind of the point.

And having a firebrand and support tempest is not that bad, the firebrand camp mid with a scourge and the tempest act like support rotational noder and goes where it's needed.

No, double support is about the worst thing in the world. Followed by playing support in a game where you don't have any build that you can support. And again, in a system where you are locked to the profession you queue as there might not be a scourge for either the firebrand or tempest to support. And no one can switch under your hypothetical system because you're proposing eliminating profession swapping.

A firebrand and a core guardian for my idea of matchmaking they are ALLOWED.Not only 1 guardian per team, but only 1 firebrand or only 1 core guardian or only 1 dragonhunter.In a team could be 1 firebrand, then a core guard, then a holosmith, then a scrapper and a revenant.But not 2 revs or 2 scrappers or 3.

If you didn't understand still I don't know what to anymore to you.

Again, if 30-40% of the game's community is queueing on scrappers, the population of the matches has to be 30-40% scrappers. You can't have a match maker that has higher priority than matching people of similar rating. It struggles enough with that as is. People always talk "Oh this will kill PvP for good if this happens or doesn't get fixed!" but an actual real surefire way to actually kill PvP is to subject players to 30-40 minute long queues per match because they're queueing on a very popular build and the matchmaker has a hard hard limit on of only one per team so once the matchmaker puts on scrapper on a team it puts them on the sidelines until the next team gets put together, or the team after that, or the team after that. Or even worse, have the match maker completely give up on matching similarly skilled players so you're getting top 10 former professionals literally playing against bronze league players.

The answer is fix what is causing scrappers to make up 30-40% of the queueing population, not rewrite the match maker into an awful unwieldy mess that is either as slow as molasses or literally matching bronzes with legendary tier players.

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