Sooooo....when does ele get a rework? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Sooooo....when does ele get a rework?

Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

So, since PoF launch, we have seen a rework of Herald, Mesmer, Deadeye, Scrapper and a major overhaul to scourge.
Just wondering if there are any plans for something similar to that for the most underpowered PvP spec in the game right now?!

Comments

  • Arkaile.5604Arkaile.5604 Member ✭✭✭

    Considering how Ele hasn't even seen the same amount of power creep as other classes, I think it's safe to say Ele is just too complex in its skills' and traits' possible interactions, or at least perceived as such, that reworking or even meaningfully buffing the class is just too daunting and time consuming when there are other projects which would affect more players sooner (more living world episodes, for instance). Will it happen? Maybe, but I can only imagine it would be after the last expansion is released.

    I could be, and hopefully am, wrong about that and ANet's actually had a small team silently working on an Ele overhaul for a few months now. Just don't hold your breath.

    SHINIES!

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2019

    Hopefully never, as "rework" term makes me afraid for future of my most favorite profession in the game. Can easily result in dumbing it down, turning it into another bland, face-rolling character. What it needs is not rework, but a set of tactical buffs, some slight changes to how traits are distributed, enhancement to certain mechanics (Unravel turned from utility skill to basic mechanic for Weaver, better Overload mechanics which not turn you into a punching bag and make all overloads useful for Tempest, not just Air, some buffs to other weapons for both, so they could be on par with sword and warhorn) while at the same time other certain powerhouse professions need to be nerfed to combat powercreep.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:
    slight changes to how traits are distributed, enhancement to certain mechanics (Unravel turned from utility skill to basic mechanic for Weaver, better Overload mechanics which not turn you into a punching bag and make all overloads useful for Tempest, not just Air, some buffs to other weapons for both, so they could be on par with sword and warhorn)

    so basically a rework? :#

  • @Zenix.6198 said:

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:
    slight changes to how traits are distributed, enhancement to certain mechanics (Unravel turned from utility skill to basic mechanic for Weaver, better Overload mechanics which not turn you into a punching bag and make all overloads useful for Tempest, not just Air, some buffs to other weapons for both, so they could be on par with sword and warhorn)

    so basically a rework? :#

    "Rework" sounds like a much more radical change, like, for example, getting rid of attunement juggling, most of summoned weapons, changing weapon skills completely, things like that. Don't want any such changes, only enhancement to existing mechanics.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    Of course it needs a rework; not on gameplay, not on f1-f4, but on specs and utlity skills.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:
    slight changes to how traits are distributed, enhancement to certain mechanics (Unravel turned from utility skill to basic mechanic for Weaver, better Overload mechanics which not turn you into a punching bag and make all overloads useful for Tempest, not just Air, some buffs to other weapons for both, so they could be on par with sword and warhorn)

    so basically a rework? :#

    "Rework" sounds like a much more radical change, like, for example, getting rid of attunement juggling, most of summoned weapons, changing weapon skills completely, things like that. Don't want any such changes, only enhancement to existing mechanics.

    Getting rid of attunement switching is not what a rework means to Anet. Have a look at the recent mesmer, deadeye and herald reworks. Mesmer rework did not get rid of clones and phantasms. Deadeye rework did not get rid of malice. Herald rework did not get rid of their F1. Even if they did end up encouraging you less to swap between, you would still have the weaver spec which is dedicated to that anyway. Core ele needs a rework and not the elite specs.

    Getting rid of conjured weapons would be a miracle btw. Clunkiest skill category in the game and your DPS is balanced around such clunkiness? Would be so nice if they just went away. Changing some weapon skills completely could be part of it or not. Even if they did change some weapon skills, it probably would be a relatively small amount of them. However, it is the core trait lines that need the most work.

  • Weapon swap 😄

  • Mr Godlike.6098Mr Godlike.6098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    The Issue is with re-works it effects ALL GAMEMODES and this dev team has terrible track record of nerfing/removing pvp/wvw builds cause ele did to much damage vs npc golem...

    But ele needs reworks and I think that the way more safer is to rework skills and traits that are effectively dead in all gamemodes and that's big list of those.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mr Godlike.6098 said:
    The Issue is with re-works it effects ALL GAMEMODES and this dev team has terrible track record of nerfing/removing pvp/wvw builds cause ele did to much damage vs npc golem...

    To be fair....I think this can be adressed quite easily by actually giving sword weaver some range.
    It has good dps on stationary targets....But 130 range on dual attacks is a big yikes on anything that actually moves.
    This is even more funny considering Daggers dont have that issue.

    Like:
    Twin Strikes - make it similar to Herald's "burst of strength" (Facet Flipover). 180° frontal cone double strike with actual range.
    Gale Strike - make it similar to Impale (Dagger#1 on earth) or the berserker's "flame breaker" (torch#4) with like ~240 range.
    Cauterizing Strike - maybe similar to Ranger's "Hilt Bash". With some form of a movement component.
    Quantum Strike - Just some more range tbh. 220 (like "maul") would be really nice.
    Im mostly fine with with Natural Frenzy and Shearing Edge...altho a bit more base dmg to the latter would be nice.

    This would already help massively with some of Weavers dmg issues in PvP ...without actually buffing the damage.
    In PvE this wouldn't change benchmarks at all...just some QoL changes there, if anything.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    So, since PoF launch, we have seen a rework of Herald, Mesmer, Deadeye, Scrapper and a major overhaul to scourge.
    Just wondering if there are any plans for something similar to that for the most underpowered PvP spec in the game right now?!

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 Yes, staff could definitely use some love. Scepter as well tbh.

    Personally it just feels too slow for my taste in PvP. At least if you want to go for an actual DPS spec.
    Most of Staffs dmg is too slow or requires stationary targets to do any form of pressure.
    Air skills on staff feel pretty weak as well tbh....Outside of CC, they are pretty underwhelming.
    Personally I would also very much like it, if Static Field was more like "Chaos Storm" from mesmer --> Pulsing dmg and some long kitten daze would be cool. (Dota 2 Disruptor anybody?)

    Personally I would also like it way better if Water spells (Staff as well as scepter) had a bit more "ice-flavor" with a bit more focus on bleeds than vuln tbh.

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2019

    Well actually ... Elementalist has received many slight reworks till it got released:

    • Arcane trait line with the rezzing trait
    • The "new" fire GM trait Blinding ashes.
    • The charges on conjure weapons becoming a time limitation
    • Water GM traits (except cleansing water ofc)
    • Loss of fury on attunement swap (RIP)

    More recently :

    • Air Trait line adding more fury back (it took some time tho)
    • Fire trait line adding cleansing on auras weirdly (hek?)

    I'm probably missing some tho ! I'm listing this without support so (I could need a FB there uhuhuhu.... bad joke)
    But ... I wanted to say they planned to "change" or "improve (couldn't remember the exact word) tempest spec and already started last balance patch with the shouts giving some boons +10 targets.

    So "REWORK" has already arrived we could say ... sadly ...

  • @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Weapon swap 😄

    Of course we will never get weapon swap...
    If it was possible to add swapping to eles, it should probably be limited somewhat :

    • Allow only staff as a 2nd weapon set (while still allowing another staff on 1st set too)
    • Tweak the swapping mechanic, like a longer cooldown, or charges that would refill only when out of combat - this could be traited to add charges, or gain a charge under a specific circumstance.

    That would add a bit of tactic to the whole profession without breaking everything, i think

    Doug Warobaz - Norn To Be Alive [NtbA]

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2019

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:
    Well actually ... Elementalist has received many slight reworks till it got released:

    • Arcane trait line with the rezzing trait
    • The "new" fire GM trait Blinding ashes.
    • The charges on conjure weapons becoming a time limitation
    • Water GM traits (except cleansing water ofc)
    • Loss of fury on attunement swap (RIP)

    More recently :

    • Air Trait line adding more fury back (it took some time tho)
    • Fire trait line adding cleansing on auras weirdly (hek?)

    true
    and also...to be honest, the changes to the fire trailine actually haven't been that bad.
    Personally I have dropped water on my weaver in favor of fire (with cleansing fire and smothering auras traits)....and with mirage losing some popularity recently, this change has given me pretty good results in P2 so far.

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:
    Well actually ... Elementalist has received many slight reworks till it got released:

    • Arcane trait line with the rezzing trait
    • The "new" fire GM trait Blinding ashes.
    • The charges on conjure weapons becoming a time limitation
    • Water GM traits (except cleansing water ofc)
    • Loss of fury on attunement swap (RIP)

    More recently :

    • Air Trait line adding more fury back (it took some time tho)
    • Fire trait line adding cleansing on auras weirdly (hek?)

    true
    and also...to be honest, the changes to the fire trailine actually haven't been that bad.
    Personally I have dropped water on my weaver in favor of fire (with cleansing fire and smothering auras traits)....and with mirage losing some popularity recently, this change has given me pretty good results in P2 so far.

    I didn't say it was bad. Just it doesn't really fit the fire trait line imo. I'm not into RP tho but it's like if the warrior defense trait line start adding only power damage traits XD

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe when anet actually understand the class themselves

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019

    even something as simple as ether renewal being 4 pulses but with double value (remove 2 condis per tick and heal for 2x amount and cast 2x faster) would probably actually make some ele builds viable in pvp

    same with cleansing fire, if it gets 2 stacks with like 30 sec cd that remove 3-4 conditions it'd be much better than what it is now

    playing ele w/o water means not having good condi removal in a game where you can get 4-5 condis in 1 hit even by some non-condi builds

    also removing the cast time on the shouts could help tempest dps (mainly for the aftershock to be used as defensive tool while channeling offense) but currently the tempest overloads are pretty meh
    they could use more dmg or faster channel or bigger radius or all of those

    as well as ele ults, all of them are pretty garbage.. anyway i think with some small changes there could be some builds emerging

    edit: oh yeah and then there's the newest concept elementalist has which is transmute aura which is complete and utter failure cause it has cast time which means you cant use it while casting other skills which makes it obsolete, you basically have to stop casting so you can cast transmute aura if you want to get the effect and you even only have it if you're attuned to the element that has it.. its just bad, it would be usable if it had no cast time

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    even something as simple as ether renewal being 4 pulses but with double value (remove 2 condis per tick and heal for 2x amount and cast 2x faster) would probably actually make some ele builds viable in pvp

    same with cleansing fire, if it gets 2 stacks with like 30 sec cd that remove 3-4 conditions it'd be much better than what it is now

    playing ele w/o water means not having good condi removal in a game where you can get 4-5 condis in 1 hit even by some non-condi builds

    also removing the cast time on the shouts could help tempest dps (mainly for the aftershock to be used as defensive tool while channeling offense) but currently the tempest overloads are pretty meh
    they could use more dmg or faster channel or bigger radius or all of those

    as well as ele ults, all of them are pretty garbage.. anyway i think with some small changes there could be some builds emerging

    edit: oh yeah and then there's the newest concept elementalist has which is transmute aura which is complete and utter failure cause it has cast time which means you cant use it while casting other skills which makes it obsolete, you basically have to stop casting so you can cast transmute aura if you want to get the effect and you even only have it if you're attuned to the element that has it.. its just bad, it would be usable if it had no cast time

    I very much second the ether renewal and cleansing fire suggestions.
    In fact I would even be fine with ER cleansing overall less conditions, if it means having a much shorter casttime.
    --> 4 pulses over something like 1.5s would be great if the overall healing remains the same. Even with just 1 cleanse per pulse.

    Same for cleansing fire. Much shorter CD, but less cleanses are much more preferable.
    I would actually like it to be something along the lines of the Guardian's "Smite Condition".
    With a 20s CD and 2 cleanses.

  • Back in the first game an ele was meant to dish out high single target spikes or aoe spikes. Everyone was like that so jack off all trades. When guild wars 2 first came out ele tokk a new route aka jack of all traits so even with low damage you can out sustain most other builds. Till you get cc and than you die in a hard beat. Since HOT came out everyone else became an ele with stain and damage. Lots of other core profession got re-worked with sustain so they can operated as glass or half and half with zero healing power. Ele needs healing and when POF grew further. ele's sustain increased as a weaver but they nerfed the core traitline in arcane or water. Weaver was flat out nerfed, later on it was buffed too a even more gross troll bot healer. I don't think ele is going down the right direction., but no one will fix it. Hey everyone is an ele now sustain damage, condi but better at dishing out damage than us. Eles still work but you are a 6-7 rather than a 10 or meta. You'll have to fight a longtime to beat equally skill people. Endless rotation spamming unless you are spamming a troll scepter burn build via tempest or the better varient on weaver. But those are for small groups hunting roamers or casual players.

    I really miss the days when we can roam solo openly and fight everyone on equal grounds. We used to be fun to play, burst burst damage either with daggers or scepter. Back line of front line in zerg fights, yes ele staff used to beable to face tank a zerg for the first 10 -12 seconds before retreating back to backline prior POF. You can do it even back in HOT. Barrier kind killed those fun fights, everyone has access to prot/stabilty.

    Well if you can improve classes you guys need to focus on better looking armor skins, make pve more fun and if you still have time fix wvw scaling.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Waisenpai.6028 said:
    Back in the first game an ele was meant to dish out high single target spikes or aoe spikes. Everyone was like that so jack off all trades. When guild wars 2 first came out ele tokk a new route aka jack of all traits so even with low damage you can out sustain most other builds. Till you get cc and than you die in a hard beat. Since HOT came out everyone else became an ele with stain and damage. Lots of other core profession got re-worked with sustain so they can operated as glass or half and half with zero healing power. Ele needs healing and when POF grew further. ele's sustain increased as a weaver but they nerfed the core traitline in arcane or water. Weaver was flat out nerfed, later on it was buffed too a even more gross troll bot healer. I don't think ele is going down the right direction., but no one will fix it. Hey everyone is an ele now sustain damage, condi but better at dishing out damage than us. Eles still work but you are a 6-7 rather than a 10 or meta. You'll have to fight a longtime to beat equally skill people. Endless rotation spamming unless you are spamming a troll scepter burn build via tempest or the better varient on weaver. But those are for small groups hunting roamers or casual players.

    I really miss the days when we can roam solo openly and fight everyone on equal grounds. We used to be fun to play, burst burst damage either with daggers or scepter. Back line of front line in zerg fights, yes ele staff used to beable to face tank a zerg for the first 10 -12 seconds before retreating back to backline prior POF. You can do it even back in HOT. Barrier kind killed those fun fights, everyone has access to prot/stabilty.

    Well if you can improve classes you guys need to focus on better looking armor skins, make pve more fun and if you still have time fix wvw scaling.

    https://i.imgur.com/3sCLJrD.gif

    Another hero finally get it! BRAVO

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

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