[Suggestion] Stop Golems from contesting points. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Stop Golems from contesting points.

Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

It's getting kinda ridiculous atm with the amount of golems being build on camps where theres 2 or 3 defending all jumping in golems while asking for backup.You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive.And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems.Now we have mounts so backup will be there even faster as before.

Just stop golems from contesting points.

Comments

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No. This is a defense mechanism. And mounts are one also. If you are solo, or with a small group, you have a couple choices: kill them before they get in, bring more people or cap faster.

    If they did this, you would have to remove mounts being able to count towards the circle as well both in defense and capping.

    This has been a thing for 7 years. People are just getting smart to thebtactic.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    No. This is a defense mechanism. And mounts are one also. If you are solo, or with a small group, you have a couple choices: kill them before they get in, bring more people or cap faster.

    If they did this, you would have to remove mounts being able to count towards the circle as well both in defense and capping.

    This has been a thing for 7 years. People are just getting smart to thebtactic.

    Ive been playing this game long enough .The thing is that it happens way more frequent as before.If you want to defend something,you defend it with people not with some dumb mechanic because youre too bad to hold the camp for yourself while asking 30 more people to help come fight off the 3 trying to get a camp.Theres no reason to keep this in place as it currently works besides if youre the one abusing it. If you would have read,i stated that there are 2 - 3 golems alot of the time so you saying "cap faster" just makes me realize u have no clue what youre even talking about.Since i even stated ,

    "You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive."
    "And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems."

    And here you are replying with , "cap the camp faster".

    Besides a mount doesnt have over 100kHp,thats a non argument.If i would have had issues with mounts contesting a point i'd say so,but i don't. This is strictly about golems contesting points.You can't compare the two.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    No. This is a defense mechanism. And mounts are one also. If you are solo, or with a small group, you have a couple choices: kill them before they get in, bring more people or cap faster.

    If they did this, you would have to remove mounts being able to count towards the circle as well both in defense and capping.

    This has been a thing for 7 years. People are just getting smart to thebtactic.

    Ive been playing this game long enough .The thing is that it happens way more frequent as before.If you want to defend something,you defend it with people not with some dumb mechanic because youre too bad to hold the camp for yourself while asking 30 more people to help come fight off the 3 trying to get a camp.Theres no reason to keep this in place as it currently works besides if youre the one abusing it. If you would have read,i stated that there are 2 - 3 golems alot of the time so you saying "cap faster" just makes me realize u have no clue what youre even talking about.Since i even stated ,

    "You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive."
    "And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems."

    And here you are replying with , "cap the camp faster".

    Besides a mount doesnt have over 100kHp,thats a non argument.If i would have had issues with mounts contesting a point i'd say so,but i don't. This is strictly about golems contesting points.You can't compare the two.

    So....you don't like the fact there is a defensive strat? Interesting

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  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    No. This is a defense mechanism. And mounts are one also. If you are solo, or with a small group, you have a couple choices: kill them before they get in, bring more people or cap faster.

    If they did this, you would have to remove mounts being able to count towards the circle as well both in defense and capping.

    This has been a thing for 7 years. People are just getting smart to thebtactic.

    Ive been playing this game long enough .The thing is that it happens way more frequent as before.If you want to defend something,you defend it with people not with some dumb mechanic because youre too bad to hold the camp for yourself while asking 30 more people to help come fight off the 3 trying to get a camp.Theres no reason to keep this in place as it currently works besides if youre the one abusing it. If you would have read,i stated that there are 2 - 3 golems alot of the time so you saying "cap faster" just makes me realize u have no clue what youre even talking about.Since i even stated ,

    "You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive."
    "And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems."

    And here you are replying with , "cap the camp faster".

    Besides a mount doesnt have over 100kHp,thats a non argument.If i would have had issues with mounts contesting a point i'd say so,but i don't. This is strictly about golems contesting points.You can't compare the two.

    But whether the mount has 11,000 hp or 100,000 it doesn’t matter. The speed and the dodges will provide the same advantage. I guess you haven’t seen a couple guys in mounts contest some of the larger circles? Just 3 on a mount would be able to stall a Zerg for quite some time...

    It’s the same problem, with different solutions.

    Oh, inb4 I am called a person who defends that camp with a golem, I, like you as normally running deep into to the enemy’s territory to try to cap their T-2 and 3 camps and towers so...

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    No. This is a defense mechanism. And mounts are one also. If you are solo, or with a small group, you have a couple choices: kill them before they get in, bring more people or cap faster.

    If they did this, you would have to remove mounts being able to count towards the circle as well both in defense and capping.

    This has been a thing for 7 years. People are just getting smart to thebtactic.

    Ive been playing this game long enough .The thing is that it happens way more frequent as before.If you want to defend something,you defend it with people not with some dumb mechanic because youre too bad to hold the camp for yourself while asking 30 more people to help come fight off the 3 trying to get a camp.Theres no reason to keep this in place as it currently works besides if youre the one abusing it. If you would have read,i stated that there are 2 - 3 golems alot of the time so you saying "cap faster" just makes me realize u have no clue what youre even talking about.Since i even stated ,

    "You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive."
    "And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems."

    And here you are replying with , "cap the camp faster".

    Besides a mount doesnt have over 100kHp,thats a non argument.If i would have had issues with mounts contesting a point i'd say so,but i don't. This is strictly about golems contesting points.You can't compare the two.

    But whether the mount has 11,000 hp or 100,000 it doesn’t matter. The speed and the dodges will provide the same advantage. I guess you haven’t seen a couple guys in mounts contest some of the larger circles? Just 3 on a mount would be able to stall a Zerg for quite some time...

    It’s the same problem, with different solutions.

    Oh, inb4 I am called a person who defends that camp with a golem, I, like you as normally running deep into to the enemy’s territory to try to cap their T-2 and 3 camps and towers so...

    They dont provide the same advantage,there is no issue with people on mounts contesting.You claiming theres no difference between 100k hp with added stats bonuses ontop of it and a mount with only 10k hp just doesnt make sense .Mounts die fast enough if they contest in a small area where youre able to range pew them down and force them to dismount.Thats not the same as golems contesting a point.Seeing this as a "defensive" strat is just as ridiculous.Stopping golems from contesting wont take away the fact that you will still be able to use them if you wish so,but the contesting aspect just needs to go especially now we have mounts and people are able to react faster.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On a small point, I can agree. But the majority of points, are quite large. Strategically it is no different.

  • Another thing you can do if someone is defending the camp and they haven't gone in the golem yet, is disable it before they get in. This is tougher for solo roamers, but if you have a small party 3-5, two can focus the CC on the defender while the other gets the disabler. Not ideal, but doable.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2019

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    On a small point, I can agree. But the majority of points, are quite large. Strategically it is no different.

    Im talking more so about camps than towers in general though.

    @Drastic, Usually they jump in the golems before i even reach the camp,i can disable them while fighting and im already doing so,but they can still just sit inside with a 100k hp buffer while more coming on the way.

    Maybe it's a good idea to when disabling golems add an effect so the player inside will be put outside of the golem unable to man it untill the timer is over.

  • Luranni.9470Luranni.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    I've seen some epic fights over camps -because- of the golems delaying. Otherwise it's mostly free yawn ktrain cap and move on.

  • sneakytails.5629sneakytails.5629 Member ✭✭✭

    Golems are are necessity on some of the less populated servers and can help save camps and towers. I use them every chance I get at most important camps. Disabling the Golem is the best strategy and I have had camps taken from my side with a really well timed disable and burst.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:
    It's getting kinda ridiculous atm with the amount of golems being build on camps where theres 2 or 3 defending all jumping in golems while asking for backup.You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive.And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems.Now we have mounts so backup will be there even faster as before.

    Just stop golems from contesting points.

    Try to disable the golems before you engage (you cant enter a disabled golem). It's all i can think of to 'balance' this kitten out.

    Numbers are superior in wvw
    Population imbalance is real

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @Caedmon.6798 said:
    It's getting kinda ridiculous atm with the amount of golems being build on camps where theres 2 or 3 defending all jumping in golems while asking for backup.You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive.And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems.Now we have mounts so backup will be there even faster as before.

    Just stop golems from contesting points.

    It is how the game was suppose to be.

    If you fight at camps. Enemy won't get to your towers and keep. People just don't realize the importance of camps, yet. Some servers do know it. That's why they flip it the minute the RI is worn out, some servers will make it so hard for an objective to be level up simply by flipping your camps - non stop. Our camps being guarded with golems and balista can and will be flip in seconds when the actual ZERG came. How do you suppose a server without anyone guarding anything is going to survive or level up anything at all if golem aren't allow to be use to guard camps?

    I don't think anything need to be done about this. It's not a problem at all.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:
    It's getting kinda ridiculous atm with the amount of golems being build on camps where theres 2 or 3 defending all jumping in golems while asking for backup.You wont kill 3 golems in the time people arrive.And even if you kill all npc's there first you wont flip the camp fast enough because...3 golems.Now we have mounts so backup will be there even faster as before.

    Just stop golems from contesting points.

    Try to disable the golems before you engage (you cant enter a disabled golem). It's all i can think of to 'balance' this kitten out.

    Numbers are superior in wvw
    Population imbalance is real

    I already said...I do disable them before hand,which doesnt take away the fact they are contesting.It aint hard to read people.

    Im having good fights Without those golems,thats the whole point.They ruin something what Could have been a nice fight.When i run with 2 others and i see 4 sitting on a camp from which 3 in golems. Do i need to explain how much faster people currently react taking away what could have been a fight all because people dont even want to 2 or 3on4 but rely on sitting in golems untill 10 - 20 more people show up while you try to burn through 300k hp+ ?

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Instead of claiming it as unfair which it isn't since you can use the same strategy in your very own camps...

    Maybe you should think hard about how not allowing golem to contest would change the gameplay and convince us how this changes would make the wvw more vibrant.

    Good luck.

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  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    Have a friendly stealther disable the golem(s) before you engage. The golem humpers don't always sit in the golem 24/7 in my experience.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    I think we shouldn't be able to suit up in a golem while in combat just like a player cannot summon a mount during combat. It doesn't stop a guy sitting in a golem before a fight but it does prevent them from hoping from one golem to the next giving free health bars.

  • I like the idea that disabling a golem should eject the player. This would be more in line with how every other siege works.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drastic.8920 said:
    I like the idea that disabling a golem should eject the player. This would be more in line with how every other siege works.

    Like the mist form?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drastic.8920 said:
    I like the idea that disabling a golem should eject the player. This would be more in line with how every other siege works.

    This seems fair enough to me.

  • maybe the Chain Pull on Mounts should be able to CC golems?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2019

    @Team USA.9482 said:
    These golems melt if you're glassy enough. Is a legitimate defense tactic for those who want to tryhard at ppt. See no issue.

    You see no issue because you don't encounter it as often as i do,i am full glass.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AmphibianX.7042 said:
    maybe the Chain Pull on Mounts should be able to CC golems?

    Sounds cool to me :)

    I don't have an issue with golems contesting points, but at the same time, I'm not a fan of players being able to revive other players or construct siege while inside a golem.

  • I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2019

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

    Not trying to be antagonistic, but yes, that is a strategy. By building 3 golems and having 3 players defend the camp, they are denying you the ability to flip it solo, but instead would require you to bring a sizeable force. The defenders will then try to delay you until reinforcements come.

    They are taking extra measures to defend an objective because, I'm assuming, they are trying to run supply and level up towers/keeps.

    That is 100% pure, organic, sustainable, responsibly farmed, environmentally friendly strategy.

    That you don't "like it" isn't an indication that something is wrong or changes need to be made, especially since you already know a solution, and that is to bring more people with you.

    Odd how many people complain that WvW is just a mindless karma train, and yet here we have an example of players coordinating to hold and defend objectives, and still complaints are raised. :expressionless:

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

    Actually yes, that is strategy and a good one. It is what WvW should be, server working together for the win. There is nothing better than multiple groups; blobs, roamers, havoc groups, scouts, working together on a map.
    If you want to beat them your server will have to employ some strategic game play. And that is how it should be.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

    What is your ‘blob’ doing when theirs is showing up to wreck you?

    This happens to me all the time. We run a small group, and the best thing to me, is when we pull a Zerg from another border to come deal with us. It means we are controlling them.

    There are a couple celebrity PUG commanders that likely don’t like us...

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

    What is your ‘blob’ doing when theirs is showing up to wreck you?

    This happens to me all the time. We run a small group, and the best thing to me, is when we pull a Zerg from another border to come deal with us. It means we are controlling them.

    There are a couple celebrity PUG commanders that likely don’t like us...

    I dont mind puling a blob to my loc,at all.Its about having to burn through 300k hp which equals around having to burn through 15 ppl's hp when youre just with 3 or so.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    I think a change to your strategy would be in order instead of requesting a change in the game mode.

    My strategy ? As in going to a camp where 3 people sit inside golems and me moving off again because we wont kill them before a blob arrives ? Ok then.

    I dont quite think you understand the issue,unless you think "strategy" is calling for 20 others to help me cap a camp.

    Actually yes, that is strategy and a good one. It is what WvW should be, server working together for the win. There is nothing better than multiple groups; blobs, roamers, havoc groups, scouts, working together on a map.
    If you want to beat them your server will have to employ some strategic game play. And that is how it should be.

    If you think calling 20 people for 3 while we also have our own blob or other guild raids on the map is a "strategy" than i dont know what to tell you tbh.

  • foxof.8752foxof.8752 Member ✭✭

    If you are long time wvwer, you should have known there are multiple roles in wvw, the most basic is offensive and defensive. I have more respect on players that willing to spend time and much less reward to guard a camp, upgrade objectives, scout, asking help to defend objs etc than a pure offensive players.
    And you know what, most defensive players do not have fighting skills as offensive players, the golems, balis, mounts are good to help them.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭

    I see your point, but mounts themselves are more a plague on contesting than actual golems. Most points are large so it only takes 1 knucklhead to bounce around on the mount, leave the circle, then the next yahoo comes in on their mount doing the same thing.

    A better option is, the only way a circle gets contested is if there are more players/guards in the circle than enemies. No more of 1 warrior jumping in, running around, invulnerable this, block that, 0 here and there with each hit, contesting a point with an entire zerg. That premise is beyond ridiculous. Just make it so whoever has more bodies in the circle starts ticking that color. Done, this is no longer a problem. So that 1 or 2 people sitting in 1-2 golems at a point with 3 attackers no longer matters; 3 > 2, so the camp will flip unless more defenders come.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭

    How does the OP's situation even happens? I've never bothered with golems before, but the wiki States it takes 100 supply to build one golem (or 50 if it's a guild blueprint), so I don't see how a few players can even afford to build multiple golems onsite in order to use this tactic.

    I am guessing they are using mounts + mesmer portals to get a golem on the camps?

    Sounds like an organized strategy for defending. If ANet doesn't like them being used this way, then perhaps the above comment's suggestion could be in place (so a single player can't keep a circle from being capped just because it's immortal, even if outnumbered). Otherwise, it'll remain a valid strategy to defend camps.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    How does the OP's situation even happens? I've never bothered with golems before, but the wiki States it takes 100 supply to build one golem (or 50 if it's a guild blueprint), so I don't see how a few players can even afford to build multiple golems onsite in order to use this tactic.

    I am guessing they are using mounts + mesmer portals to get a golem on the camps?

    Sounds like an organized strategy for defending. If ANet doesn't like them being used this way, then perhaps the above comment's suggestion could be in place (so a single player can't keep a circle from being capped just because it's immortal, even if outnumbered). Otherwise, it'll remain a valid strategy to defend camps.

    100 supply in a base camp.
    Upgraded eventually gets 300. Doesn’t take long to replenish either amount either.

    It’s easy to build a golem.

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