Change in matchups

Hello all, i wanted to discuss a fact ive seen in wvw passed months and i want to adress a complete change in sides a server goes after winning, loosing or ending second. First let me explain on how i see all sides and why i think do.

In this theory and change i assume the server that went up' the week before. And the stronger got pushed down a tier, this balance is mostly what happens after a few weeks matchup.

The side that goes up' gets red Color: this is red side on ebgMendons, anzalias and ogrewatch are really easy to get the wall sniped down because of surrounding high grounds. Only mendons is rather defendable when the enemy is in. There's no way keep siege Will support you when you in any of those 3 Towers. On top of that the ebg keep can can treb smc and back (that last one is really toxic) Just one tower can do IT on this side.

On the defending side of the bl's there's red bl, it's Nice but it's really hard to defend if the enemy knows map dynamics and enemy mobility (tapping Earth and flipping a shrine delays a respond time by 2.5minutes) can be crippled easilyAll Towers are able to get sniped by cata's (except for the insane watchtower size of swt for a reason) and nwt is Just a pain to defend if you the home team. Yeah the backentrance is nice but that only brings you halfway the lordroom..On 'offensive' size they have alpine bl's and Both sides. Not really any downsides on this

The 2nd place is for blue sideBlue keep has a Nice set of enemies around that can tap you on a Daily base. Every towerwall is able to be sniped, only red side is hard to counter (green side has always lower ground influence) 2 Towers can treb smc and vice versa. On defense IT has a hard time on outer Towers and inner Towers (bravost e.d.) are easy and able to get supported by the keepOn home bl defense there's blue bl with the stronger team (green) on the hard side and the weaker team on the easy defense side.On offense there's green bl on the Bay side, Bay is easier to cap then hills (this counts for Both sides) therefor harder to 'hold if capped. IT upgrades quicker from swc but swt is 'slightly harder to 'hold and the watchtower has a greater impact on the defenseOn offense red bl they on the side of airkeep, air is a real pain to cap and 'hold or retake as a Defender (not to mention not all mountbugs are solved there). Because of the spread walls on outer and limited options on inner. Every team can get in relatively quickly, and you only need the camp (which you have to pass to get in) to get mount advantage and be able to glide in quicker. Making a crippled defense harder.

Thirdly there is greenGreen has an option to snipe 1 wall by the 2 Outer Towers which is allready a pain (since one of the 2 towers needs to be hit by smc). On top of that it's really hard to take the 2 inner Towers.Unlike the 2 snipe possibilities on top of this it's really easy to defend all objectives because every gate is reachable by a trebuchet (only klovan is from jerri's all others by the keep). And the style the Towers are designed you can hit the lordroom from outside the tower from every corner (for the Outer Towers, another advantage for Defender)

On defending bl they have the 'weaker' server on hard defense and the 'middle' server on the mild defense.

On offense they have the fireside of the bl, IT has Both swt and firekeep which are Both the most easy to defend. The tower because of the mention of not able to snipe IT down with catapults (please proove me wron) and firekeep because you can, within a minute, get into lordsroom because of the 'adds' of gliding and mounts.

To sum IT up':The weakest server has a far harder time to defend since: more Towers are snipeable and ebg keep is able to get trebbed. On bl's they rather neutral on offense and can be really weak if there's 1 smart enemy group

Blue: on ebg an avg option to defend. Strong 2nd layer of defense. The keep is rather strong. On defense of the bl's they have alpine which is allready a plus in people Willing to defend. But the status of the keeps is rather faborable. On offense they have the 'lower' road

The green has great influence in defense of ebg: Outer Towers are rather well manageable and easily sieged out. Its hard to cap any and every snipe is counterable by canons/mortars in the tower. Secondly on the bl's they have the stronger setup in Both offense (sw dessert bl and se alpine) as defense (stronger enemy near easier defendable keep)

For what i like to see is either:

1. Give green Color the bl status of red and red the green sides. Making the 'weaker force' stronger on bl's but weaker on ebg
2. Give the looser of previous week the red bl status (and not only on the lowest tier because some seem to not get out that loophole)

I think 'crippling' the stronger force by 'cutting something away from their mapadvantage can cut Them down a little bit.Secondly i think IT would also help out the 'king server' who sits in green in T1. Lets be honest, this server (Both EU and na) barely shifted in the same pairings the last few weeks before relinis

I generally agree with you, but rather than overcomplicate things, I think a better solution might be to make the "top" server in every matchup red, and the "bottom" server green.

I believe the idea is to make it harder for the "losing server" to find its level of competence: if it's undermatched this week, it will do fine at red and remain (or move up). If it's overmatched, it makes it easier for it to move down.

In other words: working as intended.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 : No comment other than love that quote. Great book series, and so far been happy with the Netflix adaption.

For sure being red is a hindrance since your stuck with that borderland. It still has a chilling effect. When all maps were DBL you should have seen the ghost town of WvW.

or we can design all the maps to be symmetrical

Map selection should be randomized

@displayname.8315 said:For sure being red is a hindrance since your stuck with that borderland. It still has a chilling effect. When all maps were DBL you should have seen the ghost town of WvW.

I think mounts have changed this. I used to roam desert borderland at late hours just to get free reward track without any opposition, it sometimes felt like I could flip the whole map if I worked on it.

This week it was no longer the same, I could bump into several allies to cap even the most trivial of targets, and I found opposition as well when trying to capture simple things like land.

It could be the spice of variety and it'll subdue eventually, or the dbl is now a more enjoyable map for players because of the mount.

@"Djamonja.6453" said:I generally agree with you, but rather than overcomplicate things, I think a better solution might be to make the "top" server in every matchup red, and the "bottom" server green.

Yes, it's one of the possibilities here which i think would work a little more positive towards the playerbase. Especially on the last tiers

Red's ability to constantly barrage SMC is best not given to the strongest server. Tying up an SMC waypoint indefinitely is one thing that helps keep an advantaged server in check. Pretty much everything else about red is weaker but I would still slot it the 2nd place server. The server moving up should get green while the one moving down should get blue.

@Straegen.2938 said:Red's ability to constantly barrage SMC is best not given to the strongest server. Tying up an SMC waypoint indefinitely is one thing that helps keep an advantaged server in check. Pretty much everything else about red is weaker but I would still slot it the 2nd place server. The server moving up should get green while the one moving down should get blue.

As Stated every server has 2 options to treb smc, Smc has the same options to treb the same structure back. For red this means the keep, meaning the keep Will get disabled and supplies most easily drained.

@Skotlex.7580 said:

@displayname.8315 said:For sure being red is a hindrance since your stuck with that borderland. It still has a chilling effect. When all maps were DBL you should have seen the ghost town of WvW.

Finding resc on red bl is more a matter of 2 factors:

1. Does the server has dedicated small scaled guilds that roam on red bl on offtime (on na that's Just a few guilds on a few selective servers)
2. Does a server NEED the ppt to aim for their goals to push up' or drop down? On which you can always find more roamers/defenders

@SkyShroud.2865 said:or we can design all the maps to be symmetrical

Not sure if seriousIm suggesting a small change to wvw by explaining my view on the maps and the strategy that lies withinNo mean to complaint on the design

I sometimes think it might be best to switch green with red side. Red side ebg always seemed in a bad position to me.Red has one tower easy to get to, one that gets to be a pain to defend with the ogre wall unless you want to go to town on siege, one that has a mountain and water between it and the keep and keeps getting cata'd most times from basically in the dredge tunnel, one that's in no mans land that it's faster to get to by spawn than keep (no other tower is like this) and then have to put up with it being cata'd from behind a hill. All the natural features of red side works against them not for them lol.

The red keep trebbing smc outer walls is not really an advantage when there's usually a couple walls down on outer anyways, and can also be trebbed back from inside outer wall smc. Green side? pop down from the keep wall and you're at all the towers, red side has a massive disadvantage compared to green.

But the reality is it doesn't matter if you switch maps or sides, as the server with the players more willing to defend will win. The only reason the king server wins is because they take 2 extra keeps and holds them for very long periods of time by actively defending it, if the other two sides take their keeps back quickly enough you will see the match be more even in score. But their zergs responds to calls and hold off enemy zergs in prime time till they log off and then cruise to points as their scouts and pugs take over with minimal resistance.

They probably should just go back to the random color placement.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:or we can design all the maps to be symmetrical

it is quite simple...u complaining that the map is unfair for reasons listedsymmetrical design is the easiest way to make things fair