Switch Elementalist and Mesmer HP pools

Elementalist should have medium HP and Mesmers the lowest for cloth wears. I have never understood why Mesmer had medium HP as of the cloth wearers they are the most "rogue" like. It would take what? A few lines of code to do? A simple fix to help a underperforming class and one that is a bit "overtuned".

Before the "haterade" starts, I have 19 level 80's, 2 of each class (3 Thieves), and truth be told of the classes I have bothered to kit fully ascended one of them is Mesmer.

Honestly, on a skilled Mesmer it would probably not change much save adding a slight bit more excitement for the "danger" factor. There still plenty of tools left in the bag for survival. And an added bonus, when folks complain about Mesmer you can now say "Dude, Mesmer's have one of the lowest HP in the game". However, the HP boost on an Ele would be greatly appreciated, especially for my kind of builds that tend to be more in your face.

Thoughts? Opinion?

I don’t think you really know what you’re asking and how vastly different each class is with regards to sustain.

I'm kind of neutral when it comes to this suggestion being brought up, especially given the lack of any symmetry across armour tiers in terms of health pools.

One one hand I wouldn't be too fussed, but on the other hand there would need to be serious balance patch (ie not a dozen skills/traits only) to adapt both professions - because you have to bear in mind ele is designed to be able to take and heal back damage while remaining focused, whereas mesmer is designed to avoid it altogether because it does not have anywhere near the same ability to replenish lost health.

Post Mirage Cloak Nerf? Nah.

I do think Elementalist need a Core Guardian type of crutch though that allows them to run Valkyrie Amulet while still maintaining Solid critical strike chance in SPvP. WoodenPotatoes in his latest Elite Speculation video suggested the next Elementalist Elite Specialization should be an Arcanist with a dedicated 5 Arcane Attunement that always crits, allowing them to run Valkyrie Amulet. I really, really want to see Elementalists become the power crit version of a scourge, large off point area of effect team damage. For a swords and sorcery RPG, SPvP is really lacking the flavor of the classic mage, throwing fireballs and raining huge AoE death on people.

@"kryptochan.4072" said:Elementalist should have medium HP and Mesmers the lowest for cloth wears. I have never understood why Mesmer had medium HP as of the cloth wearers they are the most "rogue" like. It would take what? A few lines of code to do? A simple fix to help a underperforming class and one that is a bit "overtuned".

Before the "haterade" starts, I have 19 level 80's, 2 of each class (3 Thieves), and truth be told of the classes I have bothered to kit fully ascended one of them is Mesmer.

Honestly, on a skilled Mesmer it would probably not change much save adding a slight bit more excitement for the "danger" factor. There still plenty of tools left in the bag for survival. And an added bonus, when folks complain about Mesmer you can now say "Dude, Mesmer's have one of the lowest HP in the game". However, the HP boost on an Ele would be greatly appreciated, especially for my kind of builds that tend to be more in your face.

Thoughts? Opinion?

If we were to first look at a base class comparison. This idea has major holes. As the ability to sustain and avoid damage or heal from damage taken is a severely lacking for mesmer. So this aspect would have to be buffed significantly. Then the abilities that let the ele heal as much health would have to be nerfed severely. This would then be repeated all the way through every elite spec for both classes.I'm sure no elementalist wants to trade 40-60% of their kit for more health.On the other hand. If we buff mes damage, defensive options, and stealth capabilities or detarget capabilities across the board. By about 50% I would be all for this idea.If not then no. The current state of the class makes this idea terrible

Revenant and ranger have both mid health pool and good healing abilities. Also, I have healed T4 fractals with inspiration staff/scepter chronomancer.

Not sure elementalists healing is that big of a factor for this change. Sure it would need some tweaking, but not that drastical compared to state of other professions

They're fundamentally really rather different in how they play defensively, so a simple switch of the health pools would require some major rebalancing and redesign elsewhere.

Plus, I'm not really sure what the health pool switch would achieve. Elementalist and Mesmer are both successful in most parts of the game as they currently are. Elementalist's redundancy in PvP is more an efficacy thing rather than survivability - it just doesn't really offer a competitive alternative to roles already filled by other classes (although Sw/D Weaver is actually excellent - just requires more effort than other specs).

@"kryptochan.4072" said:Before the "haterade" starts, I have 19 level 80's, 2 of each class (3 Thieves), and truth be told of the classes I have bothered to kit fully ascended one of them is Mesmer.

I don't believe you.

Honestly, on a skilled Mesmer it would probably not change much save adding a slight bit more excitement for the "danger" factor. There still plenty of tools left in the bag for survival. And an added bonus, when folks complain about Mesmer you can now say "Dude, Mesmer's have one of the lowest HP in the game". However, the HP boost on an Ele would be greatly appreciated, especially for my kind of builds that tend to be more in your face.

And this is why. If you think Mesmer's need less HP than Ele, you are playing them wrong. Ele's (even as a weaver) can do almost all their DPS at range.

The Mesmer DPS weapon is sword. Up close and personal. With near paper armor.

That is why Mesmers get more base HP, risk vs reward. Also, Ele's are traditional "WIZARD!!!!!!" types, which means low HP. As is tradition.

Just make every class have 14.6k hp baseline =)

@kasoki.5180 said:Revenant and ranger have both mid health pool and good healing abilities. Also, I have healed T4 fractals with inspiration staff/scepter chronomancer.

Not sure elementalists healing is that big of a factor for this change. Sure it would need some tweaking, but not that drastical compared to state of other professions

Elementalist is probably the best healer in the game. Almost nothing competes with how absurdly strong it is at healing.

Did everyone get amnesia and forget how strong tempest was during HoT and how it completely shut out all other support by a mile?

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist is probably the best healer in the game. Almost nothing competes with how absurdly strong it is at healing.

Did everyone get amnesia and forget how strong tempest was during HoT and how it completely shut out all other support by a mile?

Yes. Yes they did. At this point, I'm not sure if people even remember bunker eles pre boon-stealing. Which is sad, because I have a terrible memory, so if nobody else remembers how things worked then it makes me wonder WTH is wrong with them.

As much as the ele is divided against itself, it is really hard to balance how well it does overall. From a PVE perspective I've lamented how frail the profession is, but it can easily be tipped the other way.

Take, for example, sword weaver. The water skills are the weakest out of any other element, in the sense that their healing + damage at base is lower than the total damage of all of the other skills. So, if you were to pit two sword eles together, and have them camp each element, the water ele will always lose. So, lets say you decide to fix this, and either increase the damage or healing of the water skills. This... creates a new, worse imbalance. Now, because of all of the group sustain that water gives, it becomes the best option to camp. Weavers would be able to beat everybody else just by camping water. Since they heal in an area, it works in team vs. team as well as 1 v 1.

Personally, I wouldn't want to switch base stats. I mean, it's not impossible. There would have to be a lot of balance updates to fix the problems it would cause... in which case you could just make balance updates around their current health pool. From the PVE side, what I would like to see is the base healing of water skills increased while decreasing the scaling. That way, bunkerish support ele's don't become overpowered, but the glass ele has more reasonable options for sustain.

And why this make sense to steal health pool from a mesmer ?

On my mirage I've fought eles that where completely impossible to bring down (even more so than warriors) and could outsustain and kill 1v2. On the same mirage and same build I've met other mirages that died in 5s without doing any damage in return - as have I easily killed 25-30k hp scourges.

The health pools today are pretty much irrelevant to class balancing and thats before taking into account skill.

Oh... a double-thread.

As I said in your other thread: Nope.

I'm all for decreasing the gap between each tier. But no re-balancing single classes solely by changing their health tier.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Post Mirage Cloak Nerf? Nah.

I do think Elementalist need a Core Guardian type of crutch though that allows them to run Valkyrie Amulet while still maintaining Solid critical strike chance in SPvP. WoodenPotatoes in his latest Elite Speculation video suggested the next Elementalist Elite Specialization should be an Arcanist with a dedicated 5 Arcane Attunement that always crits, allowing them to run Valkyrie Amulet. I really, really want to see Elementalists become the power crit version of a scourge, large off point area of effect team damage. For a swords and sorcery RPG, SPvP is really lacking the flavor of the classic mage, throwing fireballs and raining huge AoE death on people.

allrdy got it.they dont need it anymore and btw it helps nothing as u still trait lines either into dmg or survival.no inbetween on eleand as far as i was aware of core guard they had both at the same time: very good cleanse + damage.