Ele feels so underwhelming

Returning ele player here. I recently responded with something similar in another thread but wanted to make my own thread to try and help get the point across that I think ele needs a rework or some love if some kind.

I used to play GW2 a lot and leveled the following to 80: warrior, thief, ele, ranger. I also boosted my 40 something engineer but that doesn't really count. Point is I have played a lot and fell in love with ele. I love the utility of the profession.

I feel so underwhelming as ele now especially in pvp. I have tried tempest, Weaver, and core again. So underwhelming that onrecently have been trying other classes in pvp. With zero experience on other classes for many years I had so much more success in pvp than I did the the class I am the most comfortable with.

I wish I liked any of the other classes as much as ele but I don't so I keep trying to force it. The class I had the most success with out the hate was scrapper. Tanky, support capable, and does damage.

Again,just doing my part to bring attention to a profession I adore and want to see thrive again.

Just wanted to add: that I played from launch until 2 years or so. I had the joy of playing core Elle back when daphoenix (sp?) Was the Cellofrag type dude helping other eles git gud.

I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Ele is a pain to fight. i dont think anyone can access it like scourge or mesmer though. sorry

@spectrito.8513 said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

I'm playing a similar build but with harrier amulet. It got me to Platinum in this season. The healing is insane with signet of healing. You can bounce up to full health in no time. You'll have less health, but weaver is using barrier anyway. Using stone resonance, which gives you stab too, won't feel like you have less health than everyone else.

Without relying on vitality stat anymore, you have more opportunity to stat damage. With harrier amulet and barrier spamming, you're basically a bruiser build instead of a bunker build. Which is way more fun.

For everyone having a hard time finding a pvp build, I would try one of these suggested. It's unexpected so you'll have the element of surprise

@Stallic.2397 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Would you mind sharing your build with the harrier amulet please? I'd love to see it and try it. I think I know what it is but just wanted to double check.

Thanks mate.

@Stallic.2397 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Standard water/arcane build ?If so, i feel like sword needs condi dmg due to it's hybrid nature thats why i dont like playing menderswith sage you're more of a duelist rather than a bunker

@Bamm.6975 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Whoops! I meant to say Marshal! But here's the build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsdncMAt4i94CG5CM5iFNA7+PXoX0FtxeQOYIAsAOgA-jJRHQBwY/BAcCAEwDAAllBAA

The point of the build is to spam primordial stance as much as possible. Your dps will skyrocket while doing so since you're fully specced power and condition damage. Most Ele weapons are split between power and condi, so they're not fully viable unless you take both.

I never understood the hate for Earth trait-line. Diamond skin's health threshold is hard to maintain; but if you're using healing signet, with 1050 healing power, and spammable barrier, 75% becomes a walk in the park. Conditions against this build are an afterthought. The rest of Earth trait-line is specced damage. You can switch Earth for something else if you like, but the mix between defense and offense works pretty well.

The only counter is tremendous burst like core guard pre-patch, sic' em snipers, or Harolds. You'll have to play your defenses wisely (magnetic wave, obsidian flesh, swirling winds). That's also why Arcane has Final Shielding. Any other build is beatable. There's tons of cc, plus you're a heal-bot, with spammable barrier, who also specced damage.

@spectrito.8513 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Sry, meant to say Marshal. But I agree. Sword needs both power and condi for any kind of burst. Added precision is like a cherry on top.

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

Thanks for sharing this I am going to give this a try. I have been focusing on direct damage for sure.

I was doing better after my placement matches too.

@Stallic.2397 said:The point of the build is to spam primordial stance as much as possible. Your dps will skyrocket while doing so since you're fully specced power and condition damage. Most Ele weapons are split between power and condi, so they're not fully viable unless you take both.

Hope you won't take me questioning your words too personal, but I really want to understand the underlying mechanics. I just can't see how Primordial stance, and dropping Power in favor of condi damage, can make dps skyrocket. I leveled my Ele up to 80 using condi build, just because everybody was saying you need to go power, I just thought I'll try my own way :) Then I discovered special forces training instance, and decided to compare condi vs power. I equipped full berserk and that's where my dps skyrocketed, indeed. It's got at least 2 times higher immediately.

That's because condi damage just doesn't seem to scale that well as power does. In my current PvE Sword Weaver's build, I use full-berserk gear, Fire + Arcane specs, and with perma-Fury I get through Persistent Flames trait, plus additional boosts to crit chance I get from a few other Weaver's traits, with some cheap food to boot, my crit chance is at 80+ without any help from other players. What means that 4 out of 5 strikes deal double damage. I'm maintaining 20-25 stacks of Might until I keep fighting constantly, to boot. It hard for me to believe a condi build can beat dps of this one. Unless things are really different in PvP realm.

Are there any numbers showing clearly benefits of condi builds on Ele / Weaver? It's just one of those things which won't let me be at ease until I'll get to the bottom of it.

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:The point of the build is to spam primordial stance as much as possible. Your dps will skyrocket while doing so since you're fully specced power and condition damage. Most Ele weapons are split between power and condi, so they're not fully viable unless you take both.

It is not one OR the other but one AND the other.

If you compare the pure numbers, yes of course direct damages are better than condi. But if you mix both, you'll perform better in the PvP sphere.

I personnally play my elem as a heal in PvP for at least 2 years. I'm not particularly interested in pure DPS. But i know that if I need to play DPS, i'll play it with mixed stats because the elementalist shines a way more with mixed stats.

When you play elementalist, you want to be multitasking (in PvP ofc). If you just wanna hit hard, you should better play something else in my opinion :anguished:

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Bamm.6975 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:I played exclusively Weaver s/d in the last 3 seasons mostly playing sage/earth rune(sometimes dolyak)Water/arcane with primordial stance Twist of fate and lightning flash as utilities and switching to menders if facing a heavy condi team but only when i feel its really neededEnded in plat 2 last season only solo queueing and made top 250 ?It just takes time to get used to itMemorizing cooldowns and skills and rotationsWith sage ammy you can do some really good condi damage and most people do not expect it, but you'll need good reaction times to avoid bursts because you will be less sustainy than menders. You can take Stone ressonance instead of lightning flash for more stab and sustain, i personally really like it.The problem with this build is that you cant really change much in it if you care to climbOr you can try FA Weaver, but i cant help much here i only started playing recently im still learning it

As for tempest and core....i dont really touched it after pof release

I don’t think it’s necessarily a hate for Earth, but that Water has so much more to it, especially when you look at how well Arcane, Water and Weaver traits can be so well in sync. Condi cleansing is much more spammable and immediate with Water, and then you have the extra healing from switching to Water.

Your build has me intrigued though. I too play marshal stats (in WvW mostly). I might give it a try with more stances than what I use now, but I’m going to miss that extra healing and cantrips.

@Leinhart.2981 said:

@MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:The point of the build is to spam primordial stance as much as possible. Your dps will skyrocket while doing so since you're fully specced power and condition damage. Most Ele weapons are split between power and condi, so they're not fully viable unless you take both.

Pretty much this ^. In pvp, you're facing human reaction and specific builds. Most builds (at this time) are power burst and power defensive skills. Enemies will burst you, run away and stall till their CD reset to then repeat. Weaver's advantage is their tremendous access to evades. With primordial stance, you can evade while attacking. Basically a knock off from meta mirage last season.

Other builds are so focused on power blocks, they run out of ways to stop condi damage. Only a few metas can. The mix of both power and condi is what beats pvp enemies.

Fresh air weaver is an example of pure power. They're strong, but not nearly as other builds, and they have no defense to add.

Weaver sword doesn't have that much condition applications.Fire #1, only on third skill. Fire #2 only 1 stack of burning, not even burning per pulse. Fire #3 only one stack (it's a bad c/p of the dagger #5, it doesn't worth to double attune)Water; no chill, no vulnerability. Earth : compare AA with AA from warrior's sword, slower, lower condi duration. Earth #2 and #3, lock you on your position.So the only good condition applications in sword come from pyro-vortex. Lava skin is not that bad as a defensive skill but 1sec burning per pulse, 180 range ... you won't kill anything with that. Primordial stance a bit same : pulse, 180 range.

So yes, if you play condition your only applications come from primordial stance and "on crit (3 or5 sec icd)" traits (even earth spec doesn't have this trait ...) (traits that require the sacrifice of sustain), not enough from weapon skill.Edit: may be firestorm ? I've never seen anyone used this glyph in pvp.I won't say it's not viable; but in pvp this is too low, too dependent of melee pressure. You can try Marshall or Celestial but you can't finesse physical dmg.

In pve, it's okai.In WvW you play tanky with dire/trailblazer etc, it's easier to equip signet of fire or Glyph of EP over Stances and cantrips, same as traits. It might be the only weaver build where utility skills are used to DPS, over the weapon, by the way. It is worth a try, ... may be.

I went back and tried my hand at the earth conditions build and I don't think it's for me. I perform much better with water, arcane, Weaver and menders. Just a personal preference I suppose. I am doing a bit better now that I finished placements but I still feel a bit underwhelming performance wise. I'll keep improving and give it more time for now.

From the PVE side, most of my other classes wish they could do what my sword weaver does. I've been cycling through all of the hero points in PoF, and my weaver has the easiest time beating them out of all of the power builds. The burst is high, the sustained damage is high, the AoE is high, and the CC is fast and solid. The only weakness is that the weaver is glass, which doesn't mean much when everything dies so fast.

From the WvW side I have encountered the occasional strong weaver. Mostly I don't see them, but when I do they are incredibly hard to kill and they hit really hard in retaliation. I'm still terrified of a glass cannon ele getting firing off meteor storm when I'm in a group.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:From the PVE side, most of my other classes wish they could do what my sword weaver does. I've been cycling through all of the hero points in PoF, and my weaver has the easiest time beating them out of all of the power builds. The burst is high, the sustained damage is high, the AoE is high, and the CC is fast and solid. The only weakness is that the weaver is glass, which doesn't mean much when everything dies so fast.

From the WvW side I have encountered the occasional strong weaver. Mostly I don't see them, but when I do they are incredibly hard to kill and they hit really hard in retaliation. I'm still terrified of a glass cannon ele getting firing off meteor storm when I'm in a group.

"CC is fast and solid" omegalul. I'd understand if it was d/f tempest, but that statement on s/d weaver is a great meme.

Weaver has the worst CC of all DPS classes. DH, chrono, DD have higher burst, wonder why DH is taken into fractals too? Because weaver can't cleave, which holo is better at. All points are ousted by other classes on paper and in comps already.

I agree with you in terms of which playstyle fits you, I was never able to survive on a darn Guardian/Holo as I do on weaver because the way they're played isn't my taste.

For PvP or WvW, you need to put the Marshal and Celestial stats into consideration, with which others would be more cancer to take down if they wanted to go for sustain, but they already have enough sustain with Maurauder, etc.

The new benchmarks say it all, we deal less damage than a banner warrior, oh wow, a class that is used for benchmarks is already hitting harder than us with twice as much in HP, which pretty much speaks for itself in terms of DPS. As a support, we need a unique offensive buff, otherwise good luck topping a druid any day.

The class needs to be buffed to match this power creep which no one wants, or nerf other 'powerful' ones and prevent another inevitable power crept spec(s) into this meta.

@Auburner.6945 said:Weaver has the worst CC of all DPS classes. DH, chrono, DD have higher burst, wonder why DH is taken into fractals too? Because weaver can't cleave, which holo is better at. All points are ousted by other classes on paper and in comps already.

I agree with you in terms of which playstyle fits you, I was never able to survive on a darn Guardian/Holo as I do on weaver because the way they're played isn't my taste.

For PvP or WvW, you need to put the Marshal and Celestial stats into consideration, with which others would be more cancer to take down if they wanted to go for sustain, but they already have enough sustain with Maurauder, etc.

The new benchmarks say it all, we deal less damage than a banner warrior, oh wow, a class that is used for benchmarks is already hitting harder than us with twice as much in HP, which pretty much speaks for itself in terms of DPS. As a support, we need a unique offensive buff, otherwise good luck topping a druid any day.

The class needs to be buffed to match this power creep which no one wants, or nerf other 'powerful' ones and prevent another inevitable power crept spec(s) into this meta.

I think you hit on how I feel too. I perform best on ele because I like the play style but it stinks that I still under perform because theblinited out put of the class. That said I don't want to swap to a scrapper, firebrand, reaper, or anything else because I love the ele playstyle and keep trying to force it to work. Makes me not want to pvp which is also what I enjoy the most.

Ultimately, for me, this means I will play the game less.

@steki.1478 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:From the PVE side, most of my other classes wish they could do what my sword weaver does. I've been cycling through all of the hero points in PoF, and my weaver has the easiest time beating them out of all of the power builds. The burst is high, the sustained damage is high, the AoE is high, and the CC is fast and solid. The only weakness is that the weaver is glass, which doesn't mean much when everything dies so fast.

From the WvW side I have encountered the occasional strong weaver. Mostly I don't see them, but when I do they are incredibly hard to kill and they hit really hard in retaliation. I'm still terrified of a glass cannon ele getting firing off meteor storm when I'm in a group.

Start in Air/Earth on Sword/Dagger.Use Gale StrikeUse Earthquake (double-attune to air)Use UpdraftUse Polaric Leap

That's 757 Defiance damage in a single combo. Thanks to Fresh Air, you can pull this off immediately at any time.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:From the PVE side, most of my other classes wish they could do what my sword weaver does. I've been cycling through all of the hero points in PoF, and my weaver has the easiest time beating them out of all of the power builds. The burst is high, the sustained damage is high, the AoE is high, and the CC is fast and solid. The only weakness is that the weaver is glass, which doesn't mean much when everything dies so fast.

From the WvW side I have encountered the occasional strong weaver. Mostly I don't see them, but when I do they are incredibly hard to kill and they hit really hard in retaliation. I'm still terrified of a glass cannon ele getting firing off meteor storm when I'm in a group.

So many people fall for gale strike, especially if you time their dodges and movement.

I use focus for the defense. Switch attunement and you now have gale. Fun cc chain to burst down a squishy class.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:From the PVE side, most of my other classes wish they could do what my sword weaver does. I've been cycling through all of the hero points in PoF, and my weaver has the easiest time beating them out of all of the power builds. The burst is high, the sustained damage is high, the AoE is high, and the CC is fast and solid. The only weakness is that the weaver is glass, which doesn't mean much when everything dies so fast.

From the WvW side I have encountered the occasional strong weaver. Mostly I don't see them, but when I do they are incredibly hard to kill and they hit really hard in retaliation. I'm still terrified of a glass cannon ele getting firing off meteor storm when I'm in a group.

And good luck bursting down the target with air 3 because by the time you can swap to fire the target wont be stunned anymore. Meanwhile holo/dh/warr (and the d/f tempest I mentioned earlier) can do the same CC with skills that have easier accessibility, cast time and more breakbar damage on top of having dps skills in the same kit as the CC (or a quick weapon swap) which leads to enormous burst within the full 5 seconds of stun debuff.

I like how the fix of many weaver problems is unravel, which is sadly a utility skill or instant conjured weapons, but I guess that roleplaying as elemental mage is more important than having fluid combat.