Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW?

Hey Non WvWers, what turns you off about WvW? And what may get you interested in playing it more often?

Honestly conceptually I love open world pvp. But what turns me off about WvW is zerging. I already know that is how the meta has been established and we can't change that fact now. But I doubt I'd ever get into WvW as long as zerging is a thing.

Don't like zergs? Play on your server's off time. Or join a server who's off time is the same time you play. I'm in the US but play on an EU server. I play WvW at the server's early morning and there's usually just a few of us on and it's a lot of fun. Can group up or just roam.

I know the answer for 3 of my friends, so I can share it for them (they are not active on this forum).

• For 2 of them: They did not even started it ever (playing game since beta). They are simply PvE players with zero interest in WvW globally. They don't want to play against real players and if it is for fight against NPCs, they find PvE more interesting and varied. The idea to capture a camp, tower and such, escort dolyaks or use sieges on repeat in always the same maps does not interest them.
• For 1 of them: He made several tentatives. He found it boring if played the casual way, stressful and a bother if played more seriously, as in globally no fun.

For all 3 of them, globally in game, the idea to have to play a specific class with specific build, learning a skills rotation and taking care of performances, is seen as a work, taking off their fun. They don't want that. They want to take it easy, equip whatever they want and play their own way. That's why they don't do WvW, but also don't do raid and fractals above 25.

Note that I am myself a WvWer and do love it. I am beginner at raids and progressing in fractals (perso level 66). I do not share the same thinking than my friends, but I understand them well. It's just we do not have same interests and expectation in game. :)

My pc is a step above a potato, so anytime there are more than 6-7 people i drop to like 10 fps and get hammered into the ground.

It’s not fun. I can tolerate it occasionally if my guild wants to form a group and go there but it’s not enjoyable otherwise.

It's like looking someone to fight with, still looking, walking, still looking, walking, walking, walking, zerged down, repeat. Gets boring soon despite it have its great moments here and there.

@Kyon Sama.8301 said:Honestly conceptually I love open world pvp. But what turns me off about WvW is zerging. I already know that is how the meta has been established and we can't change that fact now. But I doubt I'd ever get into WvW as long as zerging is a thing.

Zerging is the action of people coming together to form a single army. That started as player actions as seen before squad system was added to the game, we still had zergs back then as the main form of pvp in WvW.

So what other way to eliminate that? What ideas you have? Please share.

@Dreamy Lu.3865 said:I know the answer for 3 of my friends, so I can share it for them (they are not active on this forum).

• For 2 of them: They did not even started it ever (playing game since beta). They are simply PvE players with zero interest in WvW globally. They don't want to play against real players and if it is for fight against NPCs, they find PvE more interesting and varied. The idea to capture a camp, tower and such, escort dolyaks or use sieges on repeat in always the same maps does not interest them.
• For 1 of them: He made several tentatives. He found it boring if played the casual way, stressful and a bother if played more seriously, as in globally no fun.

For all 3 of them, globally in game, the idea to have to play a specific class with specific build, learning a skills rotation and taking care of performances, is seen as a work, taking off their fun. They don't want that. They want to take it easy, equip whatever they want and play their own way. That's why they don't do WvW, but also don't do raid and fractals above 25.

Note that I am myself a WvWer and do love it. I am beginner at raids and progressing in fractals (perso level 66). I do not share the same thinking than my friends, but I understand them well. It's just we do not have same interests and expectation in game. :)

Hey so do me this favor. Ask them this.If WvW's NPCs were more interesting to fight, or WvW had some kind of large scale PvPvE meta event in it with Interesting NPC fights in the mix of it, would they be interested in giving it a go?

Let me know what their answer is please.

it's boring, tho i like pvp but wvw isn't about pvp it's about whos zerg is bigger or who can one shot you from stealth.

lets say if they chop a chank of wvw map, e.g 1 keep/tower with some room to run around and restrict it to 30 person per team, I think I'll enjoy that 30vs30( or 15vs15) battleground.

@beeftotem.4137 said:My pc is a step above a potato, so anytime there are more than 6-7 people i drop to like 10 fps and get hammered into the ground.

But doesnt it do that for Meta Events as well? And that's all pve

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:It’s not fun. I can tolerate it occasionally if my guild wants to form a group and go there but it’s not enjoyable otherwise.

So what would make it enjoyable for you?

@gabormezo.1947 said:It's like looking someone to fight with, still looking, walking, still looking, walking, walking, walking, zerged down, repeat. Gets boring soon despite it have its great moments here and there.

Like I asked Kyon, what solutions you have to the zerg problem that will make it enjoyable to you?

For me there just isn't any organization it seems. Enter WvW, join a big group, run from place to place capturing stuff, run into another big zerg, everybody dies, WP, run back to where you were, start again. Or, get in a smaller group where you can organize roles a little better, run into a bigger group, everybody dies, WP, start over. I've seen big groups literally fall apart because they're moving at such a fast pace that people fall behind and it gets spread too thin. No coordination as far as keeping the group tight and communicating with the troops.

I'd be more interested in limits on how many can be in a group. Actually using scouts, lookouts, troop formations, etc. Everyone runs around with a big arrow over their head so digging in and reporting enemy movements is impossible. Trying to scout out an enemy fort is impossible because as soon as you get close your location gets pinged on the map. If you could appoint one squad to set up seige, one squad to tank, a support and caster squad, lookouts and scouts who can give some warning of enemies before they're on top of you. About the only strategy involved requires you to get in the biggest group you can and try to keep up. I've run in big groups where the back half of the zerg couldn't get credit for capturing stuff because by the time the tail end caught up it was done and the head was moving on.

Even just trying to sneak in and get a couple of dailies usually means running into some uber roamer that can one hit kill you or you get bowled over by 40 players. I'd be more interested if I felt like I was actually serving a purpose or had a job other than just trying to keep up. I stick mainly to PvE because when you party up with a group everyone generally has an idea of their role or job in that group. Even in a meta event different groups have different roles and when it all comes together you feel like you did something to contribute. Anyway, just my rather long-winded 2 cents worth.

One main problem - I suck. Big time. So I hop in occasionally when i happen to play with someone but I don't go there alone, because I feel too lost and vulnerable and not good enough :D

The people.Moving on, with the fact we have no idea how long this game has, people still insist on being obnoxious. Be it on chat or here. The fear of 'failure' is extreme.The new mount certainly showed this.

I'm a PvE player who used to be obsessed with EotM when it was popular (I'm at 1250-ish rank thanks to it) BUT I can't get into WvW because of these reasons:

1. We always had something to cap in EotM but in WvW sometimes we stand around for minutes waiting for the enemy zerg to show up and/or many Commanders only defend stuff and we don't cap anything for a long time (I find this EXTREMELY boring)!
2. Progression and rewards felt great in EotM (before they killed it). Skirmish chests are fine but getting ranks in WvW is still a pain in the Charr tail (because of the 1st reason). I remember leveling 4 characters to 80 in a week by no-lifing EotM (without boosters)! :D It was amazing!
3. Maps are too big (even with Warclaw). EotM map size is perfect.
4. Player fights in EotM felt more fun but I can't tell why, probably because we weren't "real" WvW-ers and most of us were just a bunch of noobs. :tongue:
5. When I recently unlocked the Warclaw I was sad because it felt like a chore compared to EotM which I used to play all day for fun. I miss it so much, I want 2014 back. :(

"And what may get you interested in playing it more often?"If we got a small and fun map like EotM.

(And yes, I know EotM still exists but no one does it anymore because people can't earn stuff for Legendary armor there. I miss 50/50 EotM squads!)

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@beeftotem.4137 said:My pc is a step above a potato, so anytime there are more than 6-7 people i drop to like 10 fps and get hammered into the ground.

Yeah but in the case of meta events it's usually our zerg and 1-2 big guys and a few small guys. In wvw it's our zerg vs their zerg and when their zerg is close enough there is like 100 red circles under my feet and bam dead.

I do enjoy it when I can though, I just have to be more careful.

I"m not so much against the concept of zerging, but I do dislike the lack of complexity in the fights. supply lines are supposed to bring some of this complexity, but due to the amount of supply a zerg can carry, it is not a big thing in the outcome of the concept, leading to a more simple version of conquer and keep the zones. I would rather see some more complex concept that can help in determining the outcome of the fight. One example to illustrate my view that could be interesting.

Temple of the winds. Deep inside each territory, there is a temple of the winds. If you hold it and is well supplied, it priests will cast a windeffect from it's location towards the center of the map. This will cause your projectiles going to the center of the map (and anything in the way) to have a bigger reach, and enemy projectiles to have a shorter reach. If enemy sides have their temples on and running, the effect is only in your side of the map, but if one or two are down, you have the right wind on the other parts of the map as well. (sidenote, this also enhances the abillity to glide).

Not saying it has to be like this, but it is an example of how to increase the complexity of the fights.

I like the global mechanic and designs of maps, I have fun completing reward path (I got the ascended kudu's matrix that way pretty fast), but the only thing I remember is....

RED AOES, SCOURGE EVERYWHEREI don't count how many time we died due to scourge blobs and red circle of death. Smth should be done with them, I only see that class, no other classes apart rarely holos and spellbreaker.

Just feel like no strategies, run toward an outpost to capture, wishing to avoid blobs and redo it again and again and again....

as for me.. the community.lots of crying babies. :)but they aren't babies really.. they are 30-50 yo people

First of all it feels repetitive. You always take the same 2 towers and attack the same 2 keeps. From time to time you encounter another zerg and either obliterate them or get obliterated yourself. Most of the time it's just building rams, killing some NPCs who can't even fight back and moving to the next objective.

The second problem is jumping into WvW when you feel like it. You're standing at the spawn. What can you do?

1. Do something solo. You can take a camp or some flags. As long as no enemy players turn up, this is basic 2012 PvE play. Kill the NPCs, stand in a circle and move on. If an enemy roamer shows up, you're dead. No way around it. The other player has many years more experience and equipment specifically designed for fighting other players.
2. Join a zerg. If there is one. Most squads are closed. If there are any squads at all.
3. Swim with the flow. You see a bunch of players moving in one direction and just follow. Chances are you'll take a tower or two, chances are your loose group scatters at some random point leaving you stranded and alone in the wilderness.
4. Join a Ts server to actually figure out what's going on. Yeah, you have 0 dedication to this gamemode, why would you do that? After all you just joined to have a quick and casual look, not to join a multi-hour raid.
5. Get flamed by WvW players for wasting space, breathing their air or just existing. You came across an interactable and, in classic PvE style, tried to figure out what it does by just using it? Be prepared to be cursed 3 generations down, including your pets.

It is and will always be about the rewards. Winning is never enough.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:It’s not fun. I can tolerate it occasionally if my guild wants to form a group and go there but it’s not enjoyable otherwise.

I’m not sure it can. If you don’t like PvP, and I don’t, then there’s no real hook to do it.Going into WvW as a PvE player, it’s very..... samey, very repetitious. Trying to go solo means getting stomped as I don’t have the reflexes or whatever else it takes to be good in PvP. Join up with a group and it’s the same thing over and over. Run here, run there. Take this camp. Wait around for the timer. Maybe you make the final kill, maybe you don’t. Run to next spot, take down the walls and run inside and fight or kill the NPCs inside. Respawn as needed. Run to catch up with the group. Run to next Fort/camp/whatever. Fight. Take down walls. Rinse and repeat.. And the Zerg fights are plagued with AOE fields everywhere so I can’t fight melee even if I wanted to so it’s all running around the edges plinking at whoever with my bow or other ranged weapon. From my vantage point it’s no more complex or strategic than PvE, with the proviso that I don’t expect PvE to be complex. At least with PvE I can vary it up. I can go node farming, waste time jumping on top of things (without getting yelled at for taking a spot on a map), do events, listen to NPC dialog, explore, do jumping puzzles, etc. With WvW it’s more an endless circle doing the same thing over and over until I tire of it and go back to PvE.

I think the issue is also that wvw has not much variety each keep is almost the same how to capture it how to defend it. Perhaps some more versatile buildings with different defenses. Also keep lords are boring punishing bags.

What turned me off before was lag and low mobility but since warclaw I go daily