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  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    meaning slippery slope had counters proving my point.

    Not sure why that is so important to you, but anyways.

    This will be my final comment on this, as really it's just a waste of everyone's time discussing instabilities that have been removed from the game, and which if they ever return, will likely be altered.

    I had no trouble with Slippery slope. I completed my T4 dailys + recs in 45 minutes on days when Slippery slope didn't show up, and it took me 45 minutes on days when Slippery Slope did appear. The only difference between those two experiences was that with Slippery Slope, the fractal was less fun to play. That's all. This has nothing to do with skill. Nothing to do with counters. Nothing to do with difficulty, completing or not completing fractals.

    Slippery Slope. Made. Fractals. Not. Fun. (as did Birds btw)

    ANET clearly agrees, as evidenced by the fact that Slippery Slope is no longer a potential instability. (as with Birds btw)

    If fractals aren't fun, even for those who complete them effortlessly, they will stop doing them, which is bad for the game. You betcha, these instabilities literally put me in a place where I found myself saying "20g + ascended weapon/armor chests for 45mins with these instabilities is too much of headache". And what's worse, I didn't even switch to a different game mode - I logged off completely, as did many other players I would guess, since I doubt ANET made these changes just to bring me back to doing fractals regularly.

    Now for those who staunchly disagree, you are entitled to your opinion (as am I, which is you're wrong), but in the end you have the same choice to make as everyone else did when SS (+birds) was still live, and that is: do I participate in fractals or not?

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    meaning slippery slope had counters proving my point.

    Not sure why that is so important to you, but anyways.

    This will be my final comment on this, as really it's just a waste of everyone's time discussing instabilities that have been removed from the game, and which if they ever return, will likely be altered.

    I had no trouble with Slippery slope. I completed my T4 dailys + recs in 45 minutes on days when Slippery slope didn't show up, and it took me 45 minutes on days when Slippery Slope did appear. The only difference between those two experiences was that with Slippery Slope, the fractal was less fun to play. That's all. This has nothing to do with skill. Nothing to do with counters. Nothing to do with difficulty, completing or not completing fractals.

    Slippery Slope. Made. Fractals. Not. Fun. (as did Birds btw)

    ANET clearly agrees, as evidenced by the fact that Slippery Slope is no longer a potential instability. (as with Birds btw)

    Do you mean you don''t care about whether players are fed false info?

    Anet being the recipient of our $ is responsive to the community mood not necessarily reasoning or logic.

    I would consider the final judgement accurate if people didn't tell lies about slippery slope having no counters on this forum and on reddit but they did and still do. Telling lies and giving inaccurate information about how to handle slippery slope meant that the failure rates of the average fractal runner was artificially inflated leading to artificial inflation of "not fun" throughout the community in general.

    If fractals aren't fun, even for those who complete them effortlessly, they will stop doing them, which is bad for the game. You betcha, these instabilities literally put me in a place where I found myself saying "20g + ascended weapon/armor chests for 45mins with these instabilities is too much of headache". And what's worse, I didn't even switch to a different game mode - I logged off completely, as did many other players I would guess, since I doubt ANET made these changes just to bring me back to doing fractals regularly.

    Except fun and control comes hand in hand with gw2. Not being able to control one's character in combat makes things less fun. This is exactly why some people have less fun with slippery slope because they didn't understand the counters to the slippery slope mechanic that was required to control their characters properly and still don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    If fractals aren't fun, even for those who complete them effortlessly, they will stop doing them, which is bad for the game. You betcha, these instabilities literally put me in a place where I found myself saying "20g + ascended weapon/armor chests for 45mins with these instabilities is too much of headache". And what's worse, I didn't even switch to a different game mode - I logged off completely, as did many other players I would guess, since I doubt ANET made these changes just to bring me back to doing fractals regularly.

    Except fun and control comes hand in hand with gw2. Not being able to control one's character in combat makes things less fun. This is exactly why some people have less fun with slippery slope because they didn't understand the counters to the slippery slope mechanic that was required to control their characters properly and still don't.

    and that's just it, the counters to slippery slope were, for most classes, based on movement adaptation and not based on mechanics. For some classes more than for others.

    Some people do not consider having to adapt to a completely different type of movement a counter (it is not in fact, the fact that you are as mentioned adapting is a dead give away). You are not countering slippery slope, you are adapting to it in order to manage it by changing the way you move your character.

    Unlike adapting to say We Bleed Fire by taking a reflect (or taking boon removal against boon instabilities). You adapt by taking the appropriate skill which in turn counters the instability.

    Some classes were actually able to reduce the amount of adaptation required via their mechanics, as mentioned this was in general when provided with the option to move less or reposition via skills. That's still not a full counter to the instability.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    If fractals aren't fun, even for those who complete them effortlessly, they will stop doing them, which is bad for the game. You betcha, these instabilities literally put me in a place where I found myself saying "20g + ascended weapon/armor chests for 45mins with these instabilities is too much of headache". And what's worse, I didn't even switch to a different game mode - I logged off completely, as did many other players I would guess, since I doubt ANET made these changes just to bring me back to doing fractals regularly.

    Except fun and control comes hand in hand with gw2. Not being able to control one's character in combat makes things less fun. This is exactly why some people have less fun with slippery slope because they didn't understand the counters to the slippery slope mechanic that was required to control their characters properly and still don't.

    and that's just it, the counters to slippery slope were, for most classes, based on movement adaptation and not based on mechanics. For some classes more than for others.

    Some people do not consider having to adapt to a completely different type of movement a counter (it is not in fact, the fact that you are as mentioned adapting is a dead give away). You are not countering slippery slope, you are adapting to it in order to manage it by changing the way you move your character.

    Unlike adapting to say We Bleed Fire by taking a reflect (or taking boon removal against boon instabilities). You adapt by taking the appropriate skill which in turn counters the instability.

    Some classes were actually able to reduce the amount of adaptation required via their mechanics, as mentioned this was in general when provided with the option to move less or reposition via skills. That's still not a full counter to the instability.

    Correct not every movement/teleport skill is a fully counter to slippery slope, but you can chain them to create a full counter or be satisfied with partial counter and make adjustments and adapt to the new movements the rest of the way to the desired destination. Its like saying you can't cleanse all the conditions at once put on you due to afflicted but cleansing is still counter to afflicted non the less.

    Having knowledge of these counters would have gone a long way for players to master playing under slippery slope but the average player had no chance because they've been fed lies from the beginning.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    If fractals aren't fun, even for those who complete them effortlessly, they will stop doing them, which is bad for the game. You betcha, these instabilities literally put me in a place where I found myself saying "20g + ascended weapon/armor chests for 45mins with these instabilities is too much of headache". And what's worse, I didn't even switch to a different game mode - I logged off completely, as did many other players I would guess, since I doubt ANET made these changes just to bring me back to doing fractals regularly.

    Except fun and control comes hand in hand with gw2. Not being able to control one's character in combat makes things less fun. This is exactly why some people have less fun with slippery slope because they didn't understand the counters to the slippery slope mechanic that was required to control their characters properly and still don't.

    and that's just it, the counters to slippery slope were, for most classes, based on movement adaptation and not based on mechanics. For some classes more than for others.

    Some people do not consider having to adapt to a completely different type of movement a counter (it is not in fact, the fact that you are as mentioned adapting is a dead give away). You are not countering slippery slope, you are adapting to it in order to manage it by changing the way you move your character.

    Unlike adapting to say We Bleed Fire by taking a reflect (or taking boon removal against boon instabilities). You adapt by taking the appropriate skill which in turn counters the instability.

    Some classes were actually able to reduce the amount of adaptation required via their mechanics, as mentioned this was in general when provided with the option to move less or reposition via skills. That's still not a full counter to the instability.

    Correct not every movement/teleport skill is a fully counter to slippery slope, but you can chain them to create a full counter or be satisfied with partial counter and make adjustments and adapt to the new movements the rest of the way to the desired destination. Its like saying you can't cleanse all the conditions at once put on you due to afflicted but cleansing is still counter to afflicted non the less.

    Having knowledge of these counters would have gone a long way for players to master playing under slippery slope but the average player had no chance because they've been fed lies from the beginning.

    Except on classes which have no access to such skills and/or on classes which lack access to such skills in enough a manner to be of significant value in countering the instability. While at the same time reducing the builds effectiveness and performance, in some cases completely removing benefits (alacrity from chrono for example) or reducing the ability to counter other instabilities. Leaving them with only the ability to adapt, which people did not enjoy.

    Thus we are back at:
    Some classes could deal with the instability better, others not at all.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Except on classes which have no access to such skills and/or on classes which lack access to such skills in enough a manner to be of significant value in countering the instability. While at the same time reducing the builds effectiveness and performance,

    2 dodges is the baseline counter that each class have against slippery slope. some classes will have more dodges than others, some will have teleports that others don't, some will have additional relevant movement skills.

    Build effectiveness and performance vs using counters is the compromise players has to think about and make with every mechanic in the game though.

    in some cases completely removing benefits (alacrity from chrono for example) or reducing the ability to counter other instabilities. Leaving them with only the ability to adapt, which people did not enjoy.

    Chronos still would have had sword 3 and staff 2 teleports without sacrificing any utils.

    Thus we are back at:
    Some classes could deal with the instability better, others not at all.

    Just being on power reaper with only 2 dodges, I felt no pressure at all under the effects of slippery slope. shrugs As long as you have a decent group that give you vigor and you got fractal mobility potion your stamina regen rate would be capped at 100% already. That's enough dodges for any occasion even when slippery slope was on. Its just that additional counters on top of this makes it even easier.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    I don’t know why I’m here but-

    Dodging: I can dodge the 6k fireballs from We Bleed Fire. I usually do anyway, since i pug a lot with people who don’t bring projectile hate. Is this a counter? Maybe, but now I’ve just lost a dodge for nothing in return. So no, it’s not a real counter, it’s more of a ‘thing players can do if they decide not to bring the proper counter’ or a ‘backup counter which isn’t really a real counter’ if you need to see it that way.

    This is the same with Slope: I dodge, I lose an endurance bar, I get nothing advantageous in return (and additionally cuz I don’t play mirage I have to repostion from that arbitrary 300 units moved, with Slope xD). Again, same as Fire; it’s a backup fake counter for people who didn’t bring the proper counter, which we’re still discussing whether it actually exists or not.

    Teleports: if this is a ‘counter’, I call it class/spec discrimintation. Not all builds have equal access to teleport skills, with some not having any at all. The Fire instab technically suffers from the same issue since core warrior lacks projectile hate, but it’s at least ONE scenario that’s at least counterable because there’s a trait that makes blocks reflect and then there’s also Defiant Stance. Comparing 20s Jaunt + Axes of Symmetry to 40s+ CD teleport skills or none at all when Slope has practically 100% uptime is simply not viable.

    Backpedalling: GW2 combat is designed so that you’d always want to be ready to be on the move - Hamstrung (w/o dodging) is a representation of why you wouldn’t want movement to be restricted. It just happens that the first initial 2-3s of accelerating with Slope is practically pseudo-Hamstrung and adding ~1s trying to stop by backpedalling means potentially being ~3s in an area where you don’t want to be. It’s more advantageous to pre-calculate where the sliding will stop, and use the remaining momentum to move out if the way if necessary.

    However, this backpedal feature is not really a real counter you can take to nullify the whole effect. The instab is the same as switching the keys of your skills around in specific order without you being able to change the keys from the options window. Maybe you’d eventually get used to it, others won’t, but ultimately and especially to them, there’s nothing they can do about it. So it’s not a proper counter, and it’s also why people don’t like instabs that currently just ‘exist’ but at least they’re not as game changing as 100% uptime Slope.

    The current list of counters, besides teleports, which isn’t even spread out fairly across classes, is insufficient to say that they were any PROPER, REAL counters that existed for the mechanics changing, nuisance instability called Slippery Slope. Until much more impactful counters are presented, the gw2 community will continue to perceive that there is none.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    I don’t know why I’m here but-

    Don't mind chatting/discussing.

    Dodging: I can dodge the 6k fireballs from We Bleed Fire. I usually do anyway, since i pug a lot with people who don’t bring projectile hate. Is this a counter? Maybe, but now I’ve just lost a dodge for nothing in return. So no, it’s not a real counter, it’s more of a ‘thing players can do if they decide not to bring the proper counter’ or a ‘backup counter which isn’t really a real counter’ if you need to see it that way.

    I think the word that you're looking for with dodging is generic counter that counters most mechanics. There's no proper or not proper counter, that's just your opinion. If you use it and you don't get damaged its a counter to that mechanic. Yes and you just blew a dodge but you did get something in return - not getting damaged.

    This is the same with Slope: I dodge, I lose an endurance bar, I get nothing advantageous in return (and additionally cuz I don’t play mirage I have to repostion from that arbitrary 300 units moved, with Slope xD). Again, same as Fire; it’s a backup fake counter for people who didn’t bring the proper counter, which we’re still discussing whether it actually exists or not.

    Slippery slope changes the players movements in a way that it makes it harder to get from A to B. Dodging in this case give you positioning advantage. You can dodge in any direction at any time while under the effect of slippery slope and then not slide afterwards. I wouldn't underestimate 300 units. I've had plenty of wipes vs clears within 10 units distance difference.

    Indeed you do lose an endurance bar using dodging as a counter, and that is why its important to conserve stamina especially under slippery slope. If there is one thing that playing mirage will teach you is to be extremely good at aligning your dodges with big incoming attacks. Generalising this to all classes the more you can align your dodges with enemies attacks the more you will be able to save on stamina and only dodge when really necessarily. With knowing when you need the dodges you can allocate extra dodges in your head to counter slippery slope further.

    Teleports: if this is a ‘counter’, I call it class/spec discrimintation. Not all builds have equal access to teleport skills, with some not having any at all. The Fire instab technically suffers from the same issue since core warrior lacks projectile hate, but it’s at least ONE scenario that’s at least counterable because there’s a trait that makes blocks reflect and then there’s also Defiant Stance. Comparing 20s Jaunt + Axes of Symmetry to 40s+ CD teleport skills or none at all when Slope has practically 100% uptime is simply not viable.

    You've said as much yourself. Warriors have things mesmers don't have they don't necessarily need to teleport they can tank through things that mesmers can't. They can even generate stamina when hitting the enemy, giving them even more dodges. I would also call warrior's GS spin a counter as it give you a positional advantage, especially under slippery slope, with no threat of taking damage as it doubles as an evade.

    Backpedalling: GW2 combat is designed so that you’d always want to be ready to be on the move - Hamstrung (w/o dodging) is a representation of why you wouldn’t want movement to be restricted. It just happens that the first initial 2-3s of accelerating with Slope is practically pseudo-Hamstrung and adding ~1s trying to stop by backpedalling means potentially being ~3s in an area where you don’t want to be. It’s more advantageous to pre-calculate where the sliding will stop, and use the remaining momentum to move out if the way if necessary.

    However, this backpedal feature is not really a real counter you can take to nullify the whole effect. The instab is the same as switching the keys of your skills around in specific order without you being able to change the keys from the options window. Maybe you’d eventually get used to it, others won’t, but ultimately and especially to them, there’s nothing they can do about it. So it’s not a proper counter, and it’s also why people don’t like instabs that currently just ‘exist’ but at least they’re not as game changing as 100% uptime Slope.

    Well that's the thing with this game it is high skill tier based. Some people will get some mechanics some people won't. Getting use to backpedalling to stop over shotting while sliding under slippery slope is no exception.

    The current list of counters, besides teleports, which isn’t even spread out fairly across classes, is insufficient to say that they were any PROPER, REAL counters that existed for the mechanics changing, nuisance instability called Slippery Slope. Until much more impactful counters are presented, the gw2 will continue to perceive that there is none.

    This is only true if dodging is not a counter to slippery slope, but it is. It is a generic counter that is common to all classes. Having vigor and mobility potion in fractals will give plenty of dodges enough to conquer slippery slope effectively. Again not every class need movement skills and teleports. They have their own ways to survive.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Except on classes which have no access to such skills and/or on classes which lack access to such skills in enough a manner to be of significant value in countering the instability. While at the same time reducing the builds effectiveness and performance,

    2 dodges is the baseline counter that each class have against slippery slope. some classes will have more dodges than others, some will have teleports that others don't, some will have additional relevant movement skills

    No, 2 dodges is the baseline classes have to deal with the regular mechanics. No class has more dodges besides Daredevil. Name a few examples of classes and how you would add additional movement skills without compromising their role significantly.

    So no, you can't counter the instability. You need to adapt to it. Those are two different approaches.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Build effectiveness and performance vs using counters is the compromise players has to think about and make with every mechanic in the game though.

    in some cases completely removing benefits (alacrity from chrono for example) or reducing the ability to counter other instabilities. Leaving them with only the ability to adapt, which people did not enjoy.

    Chronos still would have had sword 3 and staff 2 teleports without sacrificing any utils.

    Who in their right mind uses staff on support chrono? And if you do, you immediately lose either access to sword main, shield off or focus off. That is a huge sacrifice in terms of build stability and the net result is gaining access to 1 additional teleport which hardly negates the instability.

    Sword 3 is part of the shatter rotation.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Thus we are back at:
    Some classes could deal with the instability better, others not at all.

    Just being on power reaper with only 2 dodges, I felt no pressure at all under the effects of slippery slope. shrugs As long as you have a decent group that give you vigor and you got fractal mobility potion your stamina regen rate would be capped at 100% already. That's enough dodges for any occasion even when slippery slope was on. Its just that additional counters on top of this makes it even easier.

    Power repear which can facetank half the other mechanics any fractal throws at you. Sure.

    Listen I honestly don't care about this semantics argument. But even you need to realize, you lack significant experience on other classes in fractals, or the very least other classes being affected by slippery slope in the past. Your advice is pretty much useless to people who do not play those 2 classes, and given neither are seeing a lot of play, that would be the vast majority.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    No, 2 dodges is the baseline classes have to deal with the regular mechanics. No class has more dodges besides Daredevil. Name a few examples of classes and how you would add additional movement skills without compromising their role significantly.

    So no, you can't counter the instability. You need to adapt to it. Those are two different approaches.

    No there are extra dodges left over in between instances when you really need to dodge attacks. By dodges i don't mean the number of dodge bar. I mean the number of dodges given the stamina regenerate rate in fractals being 100% with just vigor and mobility potion.

    "compromising their role significantly" is not a valid point for having "no counters" The standard for clearing even T4 and CMs fractals is not exactly high.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Build effectiveness and performance vs using counters is the compromise players has to think about and make with every mechanic in the game though.

    in some cases completely removing benefits (alacrity from chrono for example) or reducing the ability to counter other instabilities. Leaving them with only the ability to adapt, which people did not enjoy.

    Chronos still would have had sword 3 and staff 2 teleports without sacrificing any utils.

    Who in their right mind uses staff on support chrono? And if you do, you immediately lose either access to sword main, shield off or focus off. That is a huge sacrifice in terms of build stability and the net result is gaining access to 1 additional teleport which hardly negates the instability.

    Except having no focus is a dps loss , not the main priority of being a support chrono which is alacrity, quickness and boon upkeep.

    Sword 3 is part of the shatter rotation.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Thus we are back at:
    Some classes could deal with the instability better, others not at all.

    Just being on power reaper with only 2 dodges, I felt no pressure at all under the effects of slippery slope. shrugs As long as you have a decent group that give you vigor and you got fractal mobility potion your stamina regen rate would be capped at 100% already. That's enough dodges for any occasion even when slippery slope was on. Its just that additional counters on top of this makes it even easier.

    Power repear which can facetank half the other mechanics any fractal throws at you. Sure.

    Not if you want to maintain decent dps. You face tank you drop out of shroud very quickly.

    Listen I honestly don't care about this semantics argument. But even you need to realize, you lack significant experience on other classes in fractals, or the very least other classes being affected by slippery slope in the past. Your advice is pretty much useless to people who do not play those 2 classes, and given neither are seeing a lot of play, that would be the vast majority.

    The general concept of using dodges more efficiently and taking more mobility skills to counter slippery slope applies across all classes.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    No, 2 dodges is the baseline classes have to deal with the regular mechanics. No class has more dodges besides Daredevil. Name a few examples of classes and how you would add additional movement skills without compromising their role significantly.

    So no, you can't counter the instability. You need to adapt to it. Those are two different approaches.

    No there are extra dodges left over in between instances when you really need to dodge attacks. By dodges i don't mean the number of dodge bar. I mean the number of dodges given the stamina regenerate rate in fractals being 100% with just vigor and mobility potion.

    "compromising their role significantly" is not a valid point for having "no counters" The standard for clearing even T4 and CMs fractals is not exactly high.

    So now classes have spare dodges. Sure, depending on player skill. Either-way, players now need to adapt their movement. That's not countering something, that's adapting.

    True, the standard is not that high, and you might notice, for many people here it's not about difficulty but fun.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Build effectiveness and performance vs using counters is the compromise players has to think about and make with every mechanic in the game though.

    in some cases completely removing benefits (alacrity from chrono for example) or reducing the ability to counter other instabilities. Leaving them with only the ability to adapt, which people did not enjoy.

    Chronos still would have had sword 3 and staff 2 teleports without sacrificing any utils.

    Who in their right mind uses staff on support chrono? And if you do, you immediately lose either access to sword main, shield off or focus off. That is a huge sacrifice in terms of build stability and the net result is gaining access to 1 additional teleport which hardly negates the instability.

    Except having no focus is a dps loss , not the main priority of being a support chrono which is alacrity, quickness and boon upkeep.

    Losing Focus is a dps loss, enemy positioning loss and worst case cc loss all in one (let's not count the reflect loss since that might need traiting in a trait line which every support chrono runs 80% of the time).

    Support chronos provide upwards of 10k dps while being pure support oriented. So once again, you are arguing a significant performance loss. All for gaining 1 teleport which barely helped against this instability.

    Sword 3 is part of the shatter rotation.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Thus we are back at:
    Some classes could deal with the instability better, others not at all.

    Just being on power reaper with only 2 dodges, I felt no pressure at all under the effects of slippery slope. shrugs As long as you have a decent group that give you vigor and you got fractal mobility potion your stamina regen rate would be capped at 100% already. That's enough dodges for any occasion even when slippery slope was on. Its just that additional counters on top of this makes it even easier.

    Power repear which can facetank half the other mechanics any fractal throws at you. Sure.

    Not if you want to maintain decent dps. You face tank you drop out of shroud very quickly.

    Face-tanking allows for less movement, which in turn made this instability less of a pain or an issue (and droping out of shroud very quickly is still not the same as going down as a elementalist or other squishy). I doubt you were performing on a max dps level as power reaper in a competent group to begin with. So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Listen I honestly don't care about this semantics argument. But even you need to realize, you lack significant experience on other classes in fractals, or the very least other classes being affected by slippery slope in the past. Your advice is pretty much useless to people who do not play those 2 classes, and given neither are seeing a lot of play, that would be the vast majority.

    The general concept of using dodges more efficiently and taking more mobility skills to counter slippery slope applies across all classes.

    That can be said for just about any mechanic which can be dodged. It is was not unique to slippery slope. What was unique to slipper slope was that it could ONLY be countered for some classes with dodges, which in turn required significant adaptation in game play ON TOP of the movement changes while not dodging.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    More like you're the one who should play something other than druid. In case you missed it in the thread I've also mentioned having no problems on power reaper with slippery slope with no teleports.

    No, the outlier druid staff 3 should have been fixed not removing slippery slope based on false generalization.

    No you're the one that is wrong. Teleports completely circumvents the effects of slippery slope therefore countering it. Movement skills in general assist the player getting from A to B but adjustments will need to be made. Dodging is also a powerful counter against slippery slope as the player can dodge at any time in any direction and not slide after the dodge.

    Druid was just the first example, dude, because the mentioned skill was the most obvious and most occurred bug in meta groups - visible for all 5 players - ON TEH SPOT. That's why we also insisting on that SS wasn't challenging but annoying, nothing else.
    Additionally, I'm sure I played more builds than you in fractals especially when yours are PR and Mirage. Like I said it's pointless to argue with you any longer. The instability is gone. The reasonable amount of players welcomed the change and that is what matters. If you're trying to go on, do so but I won't continue this discussion because I have the assumption that I'm talking to an autistic person. No offense but I would feel bad triggering someone any further with severe issues like a developmental disorder or anything related.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    So now classes have spare dodges. Sure, depending on player skill. Either-way, players now need to adapt their movement. That's not countering something, that's adapting.

    True, the standard is not that high, and you might notice, for many people here it's not about difficulty but fun.

    Yes "depending on player skill". So the better the player is the better they can counter slippery slope with dodging. It is countering. Explain to me how it is not countering when dodging completely stops the sliding and gives the player a positional advantage.

    Fun is subjective. Not being able to do as well = not fun for most players. And you can only be as good once you've mastered countering a mechanic.

    Losing Focus is a dps loss, enemy positioning loss and worst case cc loss all in one (let's not count the reflect loss since that might need traiting in a trait line which every support chrono runs 80% of the time).

    Support chronos provide upwards of 10k dps while being pure support oriented. So once again, you are arguing a significant performance loss. All for gaining 1 teleport which barely helped against this instability.

    That is up to the player to decide whether slippery slope bother them enough for them to take a specific counter.

    Face-tanking allows for less movement, which in turn made this instability less of a pain or an issue (and droping out of shroud very quickly is still not the same as going down as a elementalist or other squishy). I doubt you were performing on a max dps level as power reaper in a competent group to begin with.

    You can tank small hits on all classes with a healer next to you. Its big hits that matter.

    So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    And what makes you think I dont "try to get" max dps performance under any circumstances? That's part of the fun of playing dps. And arcdps revolutionized that.

    That can be said for just about any mechanic which can be dodged. It is was not unique to slippery slope. What was unique to slipper slope was that it could ONLY be countered for some classes with dodges, which in turn required significant adaptation in game play ON TOP of the movement changes while not dodging.

    Yes that's why dodging is a generic counter to most mechanics. A counter does not need to be unique to a specific mechanic.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    Druid was just the first example, dude, because the mentioned skill was the most obvious and most occurred bug in meta groups - visible for all 5 players - ON TEH SPOT. That's why we also insisting on that SS wasn't challenging but annoying, nothing else.

    That's why skills like druid staff 3 taht wasn't working properly under slippery slope should have been fix instead the immediate removal the instability.

    Additionally, I'm sure I played more builds than you in fractals especially when yours are PR and Mirage. Like I said it's pointless to argue with you any longer. The instability is gone. The reasonable amount of players welcomed the change and that is what matters. If you're trying to go on, do so but I won't continue this discussion because I have the assumption that I'm talking to an autistic person. No offense but I would feel bad triggering someone any further with severe issues like a developmental disorder or anything related.

    Again I care less about the instability than the lie that had been perpetuated on slippery slope by some on this forum and on reddit that it had no counters when in fact it did. This lie is still being perpetuated even after the stability had been removed. Arguably this lie directly had contributed to the negative sentiment towards this instability for the average fractal runner that resulted in the removal of the instability in the first place.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    You can tank small hits on all classes with a healer next to you. Its big hits that matter.

    No you can't. You especially can't if any of the following instabilities is present:

    • no pain no gain (enemies will hit hard enough to down low hit point classes)
    • outflanked (this is a 1 shot on any low hit point class if in effect)
    • stick together (same as outflanked)
    • boon overload
    • frailty (unavoidable, puts low hit point classes on 8k life, you certainly can not any meaningful hits)
    • vengeance

    You really should play something besides mirage or reaper. Ideally an elementalist or thief for once maybe even dragonhunter. None of those instabilities up top will allow any tanking of the anything besides the very smallest of hits. Definitely nothing of the caliber a mirage or power reaper can take to the face and shrug off. Your view of tanking hits is very warped to say the least.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    And what makes you think I dont "try to get" max dps performance under any circumstances? That's part of the fun of playing dps. And arcdps revolutionized that.

    Because if you did, you would:
    A. not be playing power reaper or at the very least have experience on multiple classes (and definitely not be playing mirage in fractals)
    B. not have this warped view of slipper slope
    C. realize why mirage and reaper were so advantaged versus any other class against this instability

    It doesn't matter any how now. The instability is gone.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    You can tank small hits on all classes with a healer next to you. Its big hits that matter.

    No you can't. You especially can't if any of the following instabilities is present:

    • no pain no gain (enemies will hit hard enough to down low hit point classes)

    Learn to boonstrip?

    • outflanked (this is a 1 shot on any low hit point class if in effect)

    Slippery slope does not stop you from turning around the last time i checked.

    • stick together (same as outflanked)

    Team cohesion issue. It makes the encounter easier actually cos you take 80% of the original dmg.

    • boon overload

    Learn to boon strip?

    • frailty (unavoidable, puts low hit point classes on 8k life, you certainly can not any meaningful hits)

    take defensive traits that give more defense and hp if the player really need it. But chances are they won't need it.

    • vengeance

    boon strip again?

    You really should play something besides mirage or reaper. Ideally an elementalist or thief for once maybe even dragonhunter. None of those instabilities up top will allow any tanking of the anything besides the very smallest of hits. Definitely nothing of the caliber a mirage or power reaper can take to the face and shrug off. Your view of tanking hits is very warped to say the least.

    Reaper is one of the slowest class for a reason, tanking 1-2 hits more than usual is part of the game play. Knowing what to tank and what not to tank is part of the game play in general for all classes. With a decent team that pump out aegis, protection, regen, extra dodges and decent healer all classes can tank alot and evade alot.

    You mean the dragon hunter that has a aerial leap on F2 and invuln block on F3 that reaper don't have? Every class has their perks.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    And what makes you think I dont "try to get" max dps performance under any circumstances? That's part of the fun of playing dps. And arcdps revolutionized that.

    Because if you did, you would:
    A. not be playing power reaper or at the very least have experience on multiple classes (and definitely not be playing mirage in fractals)

    Liking to play dps does not mean liking to play every dps. I play what I feel like playing.

    B. not have this warped view of slipper slope

    Except it is not warped. I stated as much that teleports completely circumvents slippery slope. And mirage had alot of these. But reaper has none of these. The only 2 counters to slippery slope that reapers have is dodges, which is baseline for all classes.

    C. realize why mirage and reaper were so advantaged versus any other class against this instability

    Again different classes have different perks.

    It doesn't matter any how now. The instability is gone.

    The instab might be gone but people are still lying about it.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Correct not every movement/teleport skill is a fully counter to slippery slope

    Indeed. To be more precise, no such skill is a full counter. They let you partially circumvent or mitigate the effect, but they do not actually counter it at all.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    but you can chain them to create a full counter

    Can you show me a class that can chain teleports/dodges so well to be able to move completely freely without any risk of being affected by slippery slope? (hint: maybeeeeee mirage, but no other class beyond it. Not even thief. And even for mirage it's not really that, just very close to it). Because that's what ful counter means. If most of the time you still can't move without being affected, then you have not, in fact, countered the mechanic at all.

    Having knowledge of these counters would have gone a long way for players to master playing under slippery slope but the average player had no chance because they've been fed lies from the beginning.

    Average player doesn't read forums or reddit. They react based on their own experience, not on the forum posts. So, no. Average players weren't fed "lies" (which, by the way, are still far closer to the truth that what you claim). And yet those players also for the most part decided they'd rather not play on the days those new instabilities were up. I'm sure that was because they liked them soo much [/sarcasm].

    But yeah, having knowledge of how you can counter different mechanics (and how you can't) would go a long way towards a good discussion about this topic. Too bad you lack that knowledge.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    The instab might be gone but people are still lying about it.

    you might start with being less biased about it yourself, you know.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    Correct not every movement/teleport skill is a fully counter to slippery slope

    Indeed. To be more precise, no such skill is a full counter. They let you partially circumvent or mitigate the effect, but they do not actually counter it at all.

    If they mitigates and circumvent then they counters slippery slope.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    but you can chain them to create a full counter

    Can you show me a class that can chain teleports/dodges so well to be able to move completely freely without any risk of being affected by slippery slope? (hint: maybeeeeee mirage, but no other class beyond it. Not even thief. And even for mirage it's not really that, just very close to it). Because that's what ful counter means. If most of the time you still can't move without being affected, then you have not, in fact, countered the mechanic at all.

    No you just have your own definition of what counter means. I've alrady stated what counters mean in my previous posts.

    Having knowledge of these counters would have gone a long way for players to master playing under slippery slope but the average player had no chance because they've been fed lies from the beginning.

    Average player doesn't read forums or reddit. They react based on their own experience, not on the forum posts. So, no. Average players weren't fed "lies" (which, by the way, are still far closer to the truth that what you claim). And yet those players also for the most part decided they'd rather not play on the days those new instabilities were up. I'm sure that was because they liked them soo much [/sarcasm].

    No we get average players asking for tips on the forums and reddits all the time.

    But yeah, having knowledge of how you can counter different mechanics (and how you can't) would go a long way towards a good discussion about this topic. Too bad you lack that knowledge.

    Yes but your problem is your definition of what is considered as counter to a mechanic is incorrect. So the logical conclusions that you draw from it is by default wrong.

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    The instab might be gone but people are still lying about it.

    you might start with being less biased about it yourself, you know.

    There is no bias on my part. The definition is simple. Given the context of slippery slope being a mistlock that affects character movements when moving from A to B, a counter to this mistlock is anything that would assist the character from getting from A to B. This includes movement skills and dodging.
    People who did not understand this perpetuated the lie that there were no counters when there actully were counters. Partially contributing to the overall negative sentiment towards this instability that resulted in its eventual removal.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    You can tank small hits on all classes with a healer next to you. Its big hits that matter.

    No you can't. You especially can't if any of the following instabilities is present:

    • no pain no gain (enemies will hit hard enough to down low hit point classes)

    Learn to boonstrip?

    Yes, I'm sure you have played only in parties which have boonstrip always available and which was used always immediately and on every enemy the moment boons are up.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • outflanked (this is a 1 shot on any low hit point class if in effect)

    Slippery slope does not stop you from turning around the last time i checked.

    No it doesn't. It does affect movement though and if you want to face an enemy or make sure you are not outflanked it will mess with you.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • stick together (same as outflanked)

    Team cohesion issue. It makes the encounter easier actually cos you take 80% of the original dmg.

    Yes, now take a gander how slippery slope affects this issue?

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • boon overload

    Learn to boon strip?

    See top.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • frailty (unavoidable, puts low hit point classes on 8k life, you certainly can not any meaningful hits)

    take defensive traits that give more defense and hp if the player really need it. But chances are they won't need it.

    Not on mirage and power reaper.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • vengeance

    boon strip again?

    See top again.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    You really should play something besides mirage or reaper. Ideally an elementalist or thief for once maybe even dragonhunter. None of those instabilities up top will allow any tanking of the anything besides the very smallest of hits. Definitely nothing of the caliber a mirage or power reaper can take to the face and shrug off. Your view of tanking hits is very warped to say the least.

    Reaper is one of the slowest class for a reason, tanking 1-2 hits more than usual is part of the game play. Knowing what to tank and what not to tank is part of the game play in general for all classes. With a decent team that pump out aegis, protection, regen, extra dodges and decent healer all classes can tank alot and evade alot.

    You mean the dragon hunter that has a aerial leap on F2 and invuln block on F3 that reaper don't have? Every class has their perks.

    Yes, reaper is one of the slowest classes. I wonder how that would affect something like slipper slope which is tied to movement?
    Reaper has just as many dodges as every other class bar Daredevil and Mirage. Movement skills or combat speed is not of consequence in fractals, at least in almost no fractals. Eating hits on a reaper just means 1 thing: you are bad. Eating hits on a reaper also means you can be bad and not notice it. Being bad but having innate protection against being affected by an instability does not make you good. It simply makes your class less affected by said instability, which you would know if you had played anything else.

    Yes, Dragonhunter has it's upsides. It also has a 11k hitpoint pool and dies very fast if played like a Mirage or Power Reaper. I was being generous, go play the class and see how you perform.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    And what makes you think I dont "try to get" max dps performance under any circumstances? That's part of the fun of playing dps. And arcdps revolutionized that.

    Because if you did, you would:
    A. not be playing power reaper or at the very least have experience on multiple classes (and definitely not be playing mirage in fractals)

    Liking to play dps does not mean liking to play every dps. I play what I feel like playing.

    Not having played more than 2 dps makes your view narrowed (which is hilariously evident in this thread). You pretend to understand the game better and explain how to play the game to people who play:
    A. all roles
    B. on multiple classes
    C. with multiple builds

    I'll give you a hint: most people in this thread have the fractal god title or at the very least some variation of it (myself am not quite there, but half way). I guarantee you, most everybody (myself included) has played all or close to all classes and roles in fractals. You might want to start expanding your class knowledge instead of finding excuses as to why your two classes of choice (which worked perfectly for this instability) are the only things you play, or not chip in as heavily in these type of discussions when so heavily biased.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    B. not have this warped view of slipper slope

    Except it is not warped. I stated as much that teleports completely circumvents slippery slope. And mirage had alot of these. But reaper has none of these. The only 2 counters to slippery slope that reapers have is dodges, which is baseline for all classes.

    You said it yourself: Reaper is slow and requires less movement since it can face tank, but thanks for confirming that reaper has the same ability to counter slippery slope as almost every other class.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    C. realize why mirage and reaper were so advantaged versus any other class against this instability

    Again different classes have different perks.

    Yes, and some made this instability way less annoying.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It doesn't matter any how now. The instability is gone.

    The instab might be gone but people are still lying about it.

    Actually you have still not shown how every class could be built to have a significant enough movement via dodges or teleports to be able to completely counter or sufficiently counter this instability.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Can you show me a class that can chain teleports/dodges so well to be able to move completely freely without any risk of being affected by slippery slope? (hint: maybeeeeee mirage, but no other class beyond it. Not even thief. And even for mirage it's not really that, just very close to it). Because that's what ful counter means. If most of the time you still can't move without being affected, then you have not, in fact, countered the mechanic at all.

    No you just have your own definition of what counter means. I've alrady stated what counters mean in my previous posts.

    As I had mentioned again earlier: it is a semantics issue.

    You calling other people's liars though is not.

    If other people use a different definition or expect a better way to deal with a mechanic before they consider it countered, then that is not lying but a difference in opinion. Given how you have been "countering" this instability with 2 of 3 classes least affected by it and not given ANY indication of how other classes would sufficiently deal with it besides general advice like: just bring more teleports or dodges (which is in general not possible without heavy sacrifice or not possible at all for some classes) you are biased and insulting to others.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:
    You can tank small hits on all classes with a healer next to you. Its big hits that matter.

    No you can't. You especially can't if any of the following instabilities is present:

    • no pain no gain (enemies will hit hard enough to down low hit point classes)

    Learn to boonstrip?

    Yes, I'm sure you have played only in parties which have boonstrip always available and which was used always immediately and on every enemy the moment boons are up.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • outflanked (this is a 1 shot on any low hit point class if in effect)

    Slippery slope does not stop you from turning around the last time i checked.

    No it doesn't. It does affect movement though and if you want to face an enemy or make sure you are not outflanked it will mess with you.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • stick together (same as outflanked)

    Team cohesion issue. It makes the encounter easier actually cos you take 80% of the original dmg.

    Yes, now take a gander how slippery slope affects this issue?

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • boon overload

    Learn to boon strip?

    See top.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • frailty (unavoidable, puts low hit point classes on 8k life, you certainly can not any meaningful hits)

    take defensive traits that give more defense and hp if the player really need it. But chances are they won't need it.

    Not on mirage and power reaper.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    • vengeance

    boon strip again?

    See top again.

    ^ so basically you're basically blaming your failures on the team not playing well enough.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    You really should play something besides mirage or reaper. Ideally an elementalist or thief for once maybe even dragonhunter. None of those instabilities up top will allow any tanking of the anything besides the very smallest of hits. Definitely nothing of the caliber a mirage or power reaper can take to the face and shrug off. Your view of tanking hits is very warped to say the least.

    Reaper is one of the slowest class for a reason, tanking 1-2 hits more than usual is part of the game play. Knowing what to tank and what not to tank is part of the game play in general for all classes. With a decent team that pump out aegis, protection, regen, extra dodges and decent healer all classes can tank alot and evade alot.

    You mean the dragon hunter that has a aerial leap on F2 and invuln block on F3 that reaper don't have? Every class has their perks.

    Yes, reaper is one of the slowest classes. I wonder how that would affect something like slipper slope which is tied to movement?

    Slower movement = harder time kiting

    Reaper has just as many dodges as every other class bar Daredevil and Mirage.

    Oh of course you leave out the more important detail of endurance regeneration can differ vastly between class to class and continue to lie through your teeth. Reaper endurance regeneration is the lowest.

    Movement skills or combat speed is not of consequence in fractals, at least in almost no fractals. Eating hits on a reaper just means 1 thing: you are bad. Eating hits on a reaper also means you can be bad and not notice it. Being bad but having innate protection against being affected by an instability does not make you good. It simply makes your class less affected by said instability, which you would know if you had played anything else.

    No i think your standard of judgement against someone who you don't agree with just happen to be extremely harsh. By calling me bad you are calling atleast 95% of all gw2 players bad. Oh yes no bias there.

    Yes, Dragonhunter has it's upsides. It also has a 11k hitpoint pool and dies very fast if played like a Mirage or Power Reaper. I was being generous, go play the class and see how you perform.

    shrugs different classes have different perks and have different ways to handle the same mechanics.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So yes, if you were running power reaper and trying to get max dps performance while playing with slippery slope, while not ever losing shroud or taking significant damage, then you were on a similar level as say an elementalist. Somehow I doubt you were performing on that level.

    And what makes you think I dont "try to get" max dps performance under any circumstances? That's part of the fun of playing dps. And arcdps revolutionized that.

    Because if you did, you would:
    A. not be playing power reaper or at the very least have experience on multiple classes (and definitely not be playing mirage in fractals)

    Liking to play dps does not mean liking to play every dps. I play what I feel like playing.

    Not having played more than 2 dps makes your view narrowed (which is hilariously evident in this thread). You pretend to understand the game better and explain how to play the game to people who play:
    A. all roles
    B. on multiple classes
    C. with multiple builds

    IDK i seem to understand warrior better than you for example that i don't play. You did not even consider endurance regeneration rate for dodging and didn't consider warriors having additional endurance regen than others from attacking if they take a particular trait. I seem to know mesmer skills better than you because you only run meta builds.

    I'll give you a hint: most people in this thread have the fractal god title or at the very least some variation of it (myself am not quite there, but half way).

    Which i got too shrugs.

    I guarantee you, most everybody (myself included) has played all or close to all classes and roles in fractals. You might want to start expanding your class knowledge instead of finding excuses as to why your two classes of choice (which worked perfectly for this instability) are the only things you play, or not chip in as heavily in these type of discussions when so heavily biased.

    Except you don't necessarily need to play a class to understand a class. There is such a thing called observational learning. Just that playing a class means learning is much faster. How do you know i don't have a bunch of friends telling me how they handle certain mechanics on various classes?

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    B. not have this warped view of slipper slope

    Except it is not warped. I stated as much that teleports completely circumvents slippery slope. And mirage had alot of these. But reaper has none of these. The only 2 counters to slippery slope that reapers have is dodges, which is baseline for all classes.

    You said it yourself: Reaper is slow and requires less movement since it can face tank, but thanks for confirming that reaper has the same ability to counter slippery slope as almost every other class.

    Yes because tanking is not a counter to slippery slope. Dodging is.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    C. realize why mirage and reaper were so advantaged versus any other class against this instability

    Again different classes have different perks.

    Yes, and some made this instability way less annoying.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It doesn't matter any how now. The instability is gone.

    The instab might be gone but people are still lying about it.

    Actually you have still not shown how every class could be built to have a significant enough movement via dodges or teleports to be able to completely counter or sufficiently counter this instability.

    Dodges, movement skills, teleports and traits that give more of these and more frequently.

    @squallaus.8321 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Can you show me a class that can chain teleports/dodges so well to be able to move completely freely without any risk of being affected by slippery slope? (hint: maybeeeeee mirage, but no other class beyond it. Not even thief. And even for mirage it's not really that, just very close to it). Because that's what ful counter means. If most of the time you still can't move without being affected, then you have not, in fact, countered the mechanic at all.

    No you just have your own definition of what counter means. I've alrady stated what counters mean in my previous posts.

    As I had mentioned again earlier: it is a semantics issue.

    No its not. The definition of countering slippery slope is anything that assist players getting from A to B because slippery slope negatively effects character movement specifically.

    You calling other people's liars though is not.

    Yes people lied about slippery slope having no counters. And because a large number of people said this the average player ended up getting bad false advice on how to handle slippery slope resulting in an artificial inflation of negative sentiments in the community.

    If other people use a different definition or expect a better way to deal with a mechanic before they consider it countered, then that is not lying but a difference in opinion.

    But see, because they claim there are "no counters", the conversation stopped there. No mention of more efficient usage of dodging, no mention of endurance regeneration, no mention of using teleports or movement skills, no mention of traits that gave more of these. So proper wording is important.

    Given how you have been "countering" this instability with 2 of 3 classes least affected by it and not given ANY indication of how other classes would sufficiently deal with it besides general advice like: just bring more teleports or dodges (which is in general not possible without heavy sacrifice or not possible at all for some classes) you are biased and insulting to others.

    Whether to sacrifice something or not in order to more easily counter a mechanic is up to the individual players and how well they play. This is actually intended by design in gw2. The alternatives are there if the players want to take them.