Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

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  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    Personally can't say I like the proposed changes, besides the bug fix of course.

    The little hop on the mount was a fun little mechanic to use for shortcuts past open world terrain in the various maps and to give you that tiny little extra lift before you started gliding in areas you control. While not particularly difficult, it made for a new layer of skilled play you could learn to use within the mode and get better at. I do not like that people have been abusing it as an exploit to bypass walls, but I find it a bit sad that it is going to go away entirely. I also believe the Armistice Bastion jumping puzzle requires it certain places? Maybe I just found a different way of doing it with the mount hop though. Are you allowing it in the Bastion at least? In PvE for those that wants to bring it there? Not a fan of the removal over fixing the few places where it can be exploited. It's not that many that I can think of and I've only found and reported a single one (that I never shared or took advantage of I might add). I believe the same exploits are doable by, e.g., Engineers using their utility skills anyways, so fixing them is still of interest, right?

    Dismount trap I am somewhat okay with. A bit annoying perhaps to be randomly dismounted in the middle of nowhere because people have littered the ground with dismount traps everywhere even though they're not there themselves. And I am sure people will do that out of spite to discourage mount usage too. Not really a fan of the idea considering the latter. Definitely not a fan of the idea that you can use a mount skill to dismount other players, especially at range. As others have mentioned, without an ICD to mounting back up again, certain classes will have a super easy time and advantage by being able to Blink, Shadowstep, Stealth or otherwise travel large distances in a seconds time to mount back up again — compared to the rest who doesn't have this luxury. To be completely honest, these classes will have a large advantage regardless, if you were to add an easy-to-dismount feature, which is why I dislike the idea even more.

    The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, choosing your fights etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. I am perhaps a bit biased on the latter as I am a Renegade-Revenant who can burst out large Torment numbers in a very short time, but perhaps incorporate one into your roaming group if you want to have an easier time dismounting enemies? Anyways, if they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight?

    Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills and doesn't want to adapt? They can build siege at strategic points to get people off mounts fast if they want, a ballista or two (if not solo) really does wonders. Maybe those so against the mount should try it sometime. You can also set up Ranger/Guardian traps in the same area to get someone off their mount. Mix in a Torment bomb in your roaming group. Adapt?

    A break-bar sounds fine, though I don't see the purpose when the roughly 10k HP is basically doing the same thing, but with damage over needing to dish out CC to break the bar, which is again advantageous to certain builds/classes. I prefer the HP "break-bar" over that.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

  • yorick.1305yorick.1305 Member ✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Joey.2769 said:
    Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.

    Seconding this. Remove the stealth.

    Mount has stealth? If that's from other classes, nerf THEM, not the mount.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @yorick.1305 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Joey.2769 said:
    Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.

    Seconding this. Remove the stealth.

    Mount has stealth? If that's from other classes, nerf THEM, not the mount.

    Yes, mount can be stealthed. Make it like gliding where stealth is removed when activating the glider.

  • Manuhell.2759Manuhell.2759 Member ✭✭✭

    It shouldn't be possible to be stealthed when mounted, first and foremost. That said, i think that putting a ranged dismount, coupled with the friendly terrain movement bonus, will just make gankers even more obnoxious than before.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:
    My vote is for adding a dismount aspect to the kitty's battle maul. Landing that against a mounted enemy should be more rewarding than it currently is.

    I agree. Dismount both, puts in combat, fight time!

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    No need for a forced dismount esp a ranged one. If it's 1200 and not like 300/600 then it will be way too much of an advantage for range. Breakbar won't work as if they can't do enough damage because of the evades how they going to land enough cc. Don't add a forced in combat or cd on remount. All these things do is cater to the same 3 classes basically that were in here upset about the mount. Thief/Mez/ranger. They want to pull players off their mounts while at the same time not really worried about getting dismounted themselves because they can run away if they chose or are losing like we've watched 1000 times for all these years.

    ** I don't get why you need to kill/chase down every single player** and get upset so much if someone gets away. I pull players off the mount all the time. Fix the issues that the mount causes by fixing the map like make the capture circles smaller at camps to prevent that troll on mount contesting I see melee players complaining about. Removing the jump on dismount as you say is good as of course players abused to bypass walls/gates. Focus on that not listening to the smallest amount of your players base the gankers that think wvw is meant to completely ignore all objectives and was meant for 1 vs 1 s only while of course they play the classes that have access to stealth.

    Because if an enemy roamer/defender let's that 1 guy run past, he could be flipping an upgraded camp or tag a keep to stall waypoint or kill dollys. Problem with your zergling people is that you only do 1 thing and that's... zerg. Believe it or not it's roamers and defenders that will break or make upgraded keeps because we both fight and defended the camps and or do the same to dollys. Its very easy for you to say that all we do is gank but if that means making your zerg smaller so ours can win then so be it.

    And no, I am pretty sure people are more afraid of stuff like holos/revs/warriors than thievs, even deadeye isn't all that great but only vs nom experienced people.

    Didn't say afraid. Most these classes that want to force the engagement are the ones I listed plus others who either win or lose reset lose reset lose run and are completely pointless for me to engage. Camps rarely get t'd up cept maybe nc or during none peak hours so no that's not the reason and maybe instead of 5 of you havok the few returning to their zerg if your zerg is losing or the many returning if your zerg is winning maybe if you 5 were with your zerg your zerg would've already won. I do the exact same things as a player who swaps between zerg and roaming and haven't experienced any of these difficulty's w these mounts or the dozens of cry threads prior about marked. Can get places faster and avoid the gankers who contribute very little. Iv'e been stealth jumped 100 times or stealth finished bypassing downed skills completely never once asked for stealth to be removed like all these threads bout marked and mounts. Stop trying to make it like the gankers are the victims cause their k/d went from 20/1 to 10/1 or they get chased down sometimes. Fix the actual issues w the mount not add a dismount to appease imo the minority.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    The aforementioned "1 guy ran past" also isn't going to be taking any camps or dolyaks while on their mount. And if the "roamer/defender" was that worried about defending camps or dolyaks, they wouldn't be spawn camping.

    There is one occasion when spawn camping is legitimately useful: trying to cut off reinforcements while your zerg rushes a keep or tower near a spawn or waypoint. Otherwise, it was all players looking for easy kills, in which case they now have to find a way to burst down 12k hp first. If they can't do that, they won't make very good spawn campers anyway.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    No need for a forced dismount esp a ranged one. If it's 1200 and not like 300/600 then it will be way too much of an advantage for range. Breakbar won't work as if they can't do enough damage because of the evades how they going to land enough cc. Don't add a forced in combat or cd on remount. All these things do is cater to the same 3 classes basically that were in here upset about the mount. Thief/Mez/ranger. They want to pull players off their mounts while at the same time not really worried about getting dismounted themselves because they can run away if they chose or are losing like we've watched 1000 times for all these years.

    ** I don't get why you need to kill/chase down every single player** and get upset so much if someone gets away. I pull players off the mount all the time. Fix the issues that the mount causes by fixing the map like make the capture circles smaller at camps to prevent that troll on mount contesting I see melee players complaining about. Removing the jump on dismount as you say is good as of course players abused to bypass walls/gates. Focus on that not listening to the smallest amount of your players base the gankers that think wvw is meant to completely ignore all objectives and was meant for 1 vs 1 s only while of course they play the classes that have access to stealth.

    Because if an enemy roamer/defender let's that 1 guy run past, he could be flipping an upgraded camp or tag a keep to stall waypoint or kill dollys. Problem with your zergling people is that you only do 1 thing and that's... zerg. Believe it or not it's roamers and defenders that will break or make upgraded keeps because we both fight and defended the camps and or do the same to dollys. Its very easy for you to say that all we do is gank but if that means making your zerg smaller so ours can win then so be it.

    And no, I am pretty sure people are more afraid of stuff like holos/revs/warriors than thievs, even deadeye isn't all that great but only vs nom experienced people.

    Didn't say afraid. Most these classes that want to force the engagement are the ones I listed plus others who either win or lose reset lose reset lose run and are completely pointless for me to engage. Camps rarely get t'd up cept maybe nc or during none peak hours so no that's not the reason and maybe instead of 5 of you havok the few returning to their zerg if your zerg is losing or the many returning if your zerg is winning maybe if you 5 were with your zerg your zerg would've already won. I do the exact same things as a player who swaps between zerg and roaming and haven't experienced any of these difficulty's w these mounts or the dozens of cry threads prior about marked. Can get places faster and avoid the gankers who contribute very little. Iv'e been stealth jumped 100 times or stealth finished bypassing downed skills completely never once asked for stealth to be removed like all these threads bout marked and mounts. Stop trying to make it like the gankers are the victims cause their k/d went from 20/1 to 10/1 or they get chased down sometimes. Fix the actual issues w the mount not add a dismount to appease imo the minority.

    gankers can still do it though, i am more "upset" that i have to try burn everything as a melee thief/warrior/ele when an enemy comes to try and take "My" camps but instea the just whoosh of away with out even attempting to fight, very brave though to attacked defenceless npc's though

  • LinhZeri.6412LinhZeri.6412 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    For dismounting players I was thinking about it while on my Warclaw and wanted to use Chain Pull on players. This is a great way to one pull people off warclaw (and you can make the user come off as well if that is highly favored). Make it require a good chunk of supply (10?) so it isnt abused./overused. This also makes it more tactical instead of some sort of anti mount.. as the trap itself is great . (Name the trap caltrops! ) Even another effect to chain pull is grabbing on to other players who arent mounted for several seconds and have them ride behind your warclaw (lol but that is probably not going to happen xD).

    Skill 1: I think this skill shouldnt even defeat players. We need to stop adding these features in the game. The dmg and bleed is enough to do the job. the Superior version can just do something else.

    Also another suggestion to Mounts in WvW. Make a cooldown on going back on your mount 10 seconds ( 15 seconds) or so instead of it instantly after out of combat. This would solve most of the issues people have.

    Health on Warclaw: I think its fine as it is.. counter to others above me but thats ok. If people really have an issue with the health make it not regenerate at all while riding this way it doesnt just regenerate 3 seconds later. Of course, I think the cooldown on dismounting (not just forcefully) will do the trick which is why i suggest really no change is needed here.

    Otherwise, Warclaw is fine. Break Bar would def be interesting and seems decent enough. I been using warclaw and i really think it adds to WvW more then people let on saying its "bad". The only people who qq over warclaw are the people who liked bullying others while they simply try to navigate. Of course my opinion but put it out there. Also like I previously said. the cooldown on warclaw dismounting over auto recovered out of combat would add the counterplay people want.

  • Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

    While you're at it, is it possible to auto-dismount when selecting any siege or siege disabler from inventory? (I guess trap/tricks in general)
    Right now, it equips them but you have to dismount to use.

    YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    No need for a forced dismount esp a ranged one. If it's 1200 and not like 300/600 then it will be way too much of an advantage for range. Breakbar won't work as if they can't do enough damage because of the evades how they going to land enough cc. Don't add a forced in combat or cd on remount. All these things do is cater to the same 3 classes basically that were in here upset about the mount. Thief/Mez/ranger. They want to pull players off their mounts while at the same time not really worried about getting dismounted themselves because they can run away if they chose or are losing like we've watched 1000 times for all these years.

    ** I don't get why you need to kill/chase down every single player** and get upset so much if someone gets away. I pull players off the mount all the time. Fix the issues that the mount causes by fixing the map like make the capture circles smaller at camps to prevent that troll on mount contesting I see melee players complaining about. Removing the jump on dismount as you say is good as of course players abused to bypass walls/gates. Focus on that not listening to the smallest amount of your players base the gankers that think wvw is meant to completely ignore all objectives and was meant for 1 vs 1 s only while of course they play the classes that have access to stealth.

    Because if an enemy roamer/defender let's that 1 guy run past, he could be flipping an upgraded camp or tag a keep to stall waypoint or kill dollys. Problem with your zergling people is that you only do 1 thing and that's... zerg. Believe it or not it's roamers and defenders that will break or make upgraded keeps because we both fight and defended the camps and or do the same to dollys. Its very easy for you to say that all we do is gank but if that means making your zerg smaller so ours can win then so be it.

    And no, I am pretty sure people are more afraid of stuff like holos/revs/warriors than thievs, even deadeye isn't all that great but only vs nom experienced people.

    Didn't say afraid. Most these classes that want to force the engagement are the ones I listed plus others who either win or lose reset lose reset lose run and are completely pointless for me to engage. Camps rarely get t'd up cept maybe nc or during none peak hours so no that's not the reason and maybe instead of 5 of you havok the few returning to their zerg if your zerg is losing or the many returning if your zerg is winning maybe if you 5 were with your zerg your zerg would've already won. I do the exact same things as a player who swaps between zerg and roaming and haven't experienced any of these difficulty's w these mounts or the dozens of cry threads prior about marked. Can get places faster and avoid the gankers who contribute very little. Iv'e been stealth jumped 100 times or stealth finished bypassing downed skills completely never once asked for stealth to be removed like all these threads bout marked and mounts. Stop trying to make it like the gankers are the victims cause their k/d went from 20/1 to 10/1 or they get chased down sometimes. Fix the actual issues w the mount not add a dismount to appease imo the minority.

    gankers can still do it though, i am more "upset" that i have to try burn everything as a melee thief/warrior/ele when an enemy comes to try and take "My" camps but instea the just whoosh of away with out even attempting to fight, very brave though to attacked defenceless npc's though

    Yeah hide then and wait till they engage the npc's then they can't mount. I'm like 270/500 def camp achieve so ya I want them to fight but I'd rather someone flat out run then engage and lose then run. Another easy way to dismount people is drop a banner in a camp or w/e. Melee does get screwed esp at the huge circle camps so they should fix that as well and make those smaller.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    "i am a pver, pamper me! "
    What kind of mentality is that?

    "I'm a player that only likes the 10 competitive PvP % of the game in which 90% of the budget goes into cooperative PvE and in which 90% of the profits come from cooperative PvE, so keep pampering me instead of those filthy PvE casuals!"

    Dunno, what kind of mentality is that? I understand that you were happy playing your type of competitive PvP for years in GW2 instead of any other PvP-tailored games, even though that game mode poorly aligned with the rest of this game, but the developers made a decision that finally caters to some PvEers who weren't previously enticed by the game mode; so I, as one of those (previously silent and distanced from the discussion) players, have all rights to voice my opinion on upcoming changes to devs who now intend to backpedal from their initial decision due to objections from a subset of veteran players.

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    Nooooooo. If you're playing a build that isn't made for roaming and are out of position due to mistakes you have made you should be punished for those mistakes. Just like I should be punished as a roamer for wandering too close to groups. In short the vibe I get is you came back because now there is no conflict now and its just zerging from tower to tower in PvE land. However you did at least explain your reasoning which I appreciate. Unlike some of the posts that look like 'Plz no dismount skill is bad idea.'

    Edit: Also nice to hear its a long term plan to make the game mode not terrible. /s

    Well I mean if I'm running to my zerg because I was late, the only mistake there was that I was late. I also never "left" WvW before mounts came out, I am a roamer first and a zerg player second. I have fun taking camps, trying to solo towers (and being a nuisance in general), and player who defends home bl to the best of my abilities. I also like fights as well. My point was that mounts made it easier for me to catch up with my zerg, but if we didn't have them I wouldn't have been upset by it, just like I wasn't upset by the addition of gliding which was another change that basically the Hardcore WvW players were also against. Or hell, the DBL's, which I admit were AWFUL at the beginning (hell, I was against them just because I kept getting lost), but now it's my favorite BL (Alpines are fine, I just find them a bit too small for my liking.)

    My major gripe really isn't with the mounts themselves, just the complaint that it's ruining WvW overall (It's not). I also agree it should dismount both players and I suspect put both players into combat. I just have more of an issue with the range of the proposed skill, as 1200 if fairly large. However we still don't know if it's a 1200 range radius, or do you have to be targeting, and facing the person you are trying to dismount. Also, is it single target or does it dismount everyone in that 1200 range, or limited to one person per dismount? Unless I missed this info, then sorry for my questions :P

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Integrate anti-mount measures in some siege weapon instead.

    You could go further, and move all tricks into a siege weapon (existing or new).

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

    Nerfing mount movement is a short-term solution, but you will have to handle those terrain problems sooner or later, since multiple professions have been able to abuse them across the years (and some still do).

    And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

    Anyway, I posted this at reddit a few days ago. It's a warclaw redesign (now called panther) plus two additional mount ideas. Might serve as an inspiration for where to go next:


    Panther

    • Medium speed, medium health.
    • Skill 1: Leap at enemies. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Grappling Hook, pulls enemies on foot. Can be used to dismount enemy players, but you get dismounted as well. Telegraphed, and can be dodged. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Disabling Hook on/off. Disables siege weapons, but locks you to them, forcing you to stick nearby. Dismounting or moving too far disables the hook. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Leap forward. Three endurance bars.
    • Special: Your mount can swim.

    Dolyak

    • Slow speed, high health.
    • Skill 1: Charge forward moving the horns, launching enemies in your path. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Headbutt a nearby gate. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn Shield Bubble on/off. Can be used while moving. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Gain stability, and become invulnerable to dismounts. Two endurance bars.
    • Special: You can load supply pack into your dolyak, letting you deliver it wherever you want, just as a supply dolyak. The supply pack will be lost if you dismount.

    Moa

    • Fast speed, low health.
    • Skill 1: Slash at a single target repeatedly. Finishes downed enemies. Dismounts the player.
    • Skill 2: Applies reveal and marks nearby enemies on the world map. Consumes supply with every use.
    • Skill 3: Turn stealth on/off. Consumes supply while it's active.
    • Dodge: Greatly increases your movement speed, roller beetle levels. One endurance bar.
    • Special: Your mount detects WvW traps.

    Additional notes:

    • You can only equip one mount at once. To swap mounts, you need to go back to the respawn.
    • Dismounts in combat put the mount on cooldown for 30 seconds.
    • Trap redesign, now they have 20 charges each, consuming 1 every time an enemy steps inside. New trap, dismounts enemy players. Siege Disablers affect traps now. New trick lets you destroy traps.

    I think mounts have a lot of potential for WvW, but they must become a significant part of combat, or they will never become a real part of WvW.

    I like your idea for mount diversity but think they're too op for WvW. Mounts are just speed boost not an actual aspect to the experience. Kinda like gliding.. Its there but not needed. Plus you need POF expansion for mounts and Gw2 never really been a P2W kind of game. If anything they should allow you to trait mounts instead of having complete mastery. Like allowing your mount to run faster in ENEMY territory but at a sacrifice of health. Allowing different mount builds would be cool. So one mount is fast but only 2 dodges. Another has 3 dodges but is slow with low health and the last one more beefy with health but 1 dodge and medium speed.

    That's my point, mounts should be more than just movement. I'd rather have them be something closer to siege golems than to PvE mounts.

    As for the Path of Fire requirement, I would remove it altogether. WvW mounts would be useless in PvE anyway.

    @DaFishBob.6518 said:

    @liurencija.2684 said:
    Making mounts cc'able would honestly be a very welcomed change in wvw, considering how currently it's possible to dodge all the initial spike from enemy groups without any tactical efforts and just one push them with full cd's.
    Also, could you change the leap on spacebar to a separate (dodge key) keybind instead? Some people would like to have a possibility to jump around while running mounted.

    There's already an option to do just that, disable conditional mount movement I think it's called in the option menu. Let's you jump when you hit jump instead of either jumping or mount dodging depending on movement.

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey all, just wanted to put out a quick note about some upcoming Warclaw changes.

    Short-term

    • We're working on a fix for the issue where people can get stuck on their mount, and still have their 3 evades and such. There may be more than one bug that causes this, but we think we're getting the most egregious one.
    • We're going to remove the jump on dismount. It's one of the biggest things used to bypass walls/gates and it was faster to remove the jump rather than try to fix each of those individually.
    • Fix to the sitting in box achievement areas so you can mount up in them.

    Medium to Long-term

    • Working on a dismount trap
    • Working on a new mounted skill to dismount other mounted players. This may also dismount yourself. We're still debating that. Feedback welcome.

    Even Longer term

    • We're considering adding break-bars to the WvW Mount. It's still a big if, as this will also require UI considerations.

    Edit: Added cat box achievement fix.

    And yeah, that "dismount skill" should be some sort of grappling hook, where you pull enemies while launching yourself.

    I just had an image of two players being pulled off their mounts and colliding into each other, causing them both to be knocked down. Perfect.

    It's good because you can't pull someone else into your zerg, both players get pulled towards each other right into a dueling position.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    @Lonami.2987 posted a cool, idea, +1, i'm all for a mount that can swim. Dolyak sound very helpful, but I think too much mounts isn't healthy for WvW. You can try to change my mind. The only pro of warclaw is currently that you can now move around without being killed at the spawn by stealthy thief or mesmer.
    (Btw fixing that invincibility/ infinite stealth would have been a better solution, can't understand we still have scourge blobs, seriously, nerf red aoe of death)
    I definitely think that, more stronger racial siege weapons are a better solution than adding more mounts. It kinda destroy the soul of WvW... But more importantly, we need more maps!!! With all the current events, we could have a map melting with some fractals... very confusing with several environments like the chaos fractal.

    I think mounts should move into siege weapon territory.

  • @Ashen.2907 said:

    @hellsqueen.3045 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Hey please dont infracture my post... But why wasn't this thought of before the release of Warclaw mounts? No one in the studio thought " how will other players engage each other in smaller groups? " if everyone is on mounts it's just cat and mouse and no one can dismount unless they want to engage. This ruins the WvW experience for both sides because.. 1. Theres no risk you can just Run from people you dont want to fight, theres no challenge in it. 2. Mount has too much health so even if i use maul to engage , i cant deal enough damage to get the other player off mount as im trying to catch up to them. Players always going to complain about getting ganked thats a natural occurrence in WvW . That's like saying oh man im getting outnumbered constantly. That's just the part of WvW , sometimes you will get outnumbered. Don't make it easier for that small group of players who never want to play and just Karma train for dailies and log out.

    HOW TO BALANCE WAR CLAW:
    Reduce the mount health from 10k to 5000-4000 and make BOTH players dismount when using engage target. That's how you balance war claw.

    Thought's on defiance bar?
    If it's anything like the War banner tactivators, i'm going to have to say no to that idea. Give them skills that can make them immune to CC but still give counter play like a skill that gives mount stability, instead of the current 100% immunity to all CC's. That is just ridiculous.

    As if people weren't already running from combat before the Warclaw? People were and there wasn't a risk of running away then either. Look at the thief and mesmer, they literally have builds for running.
    Just because it's harder to bully someone who wants to avoid combat, people are complaining.
    I think it's better that people who would have run away anyway get to run, it's not fun being pummeled by an encounter you were already trying to run from.

    At the end of the day, there was always people running away from combat and we shouldn't act like the Warclaw changed that, it hasn't. It just means people who have no mercy for someone who had no intention of fighting in the first place, don't always get their kill. Good.

    I run with a small group of players and we still run from encounters that we know better than to take on. Running isn't new, don't act like Anet has royally messed up by not thinking of adding this stuff sooner.

    Its not bullying to attack another player character in a pvp oriented game mode. It diminishes the experiences of those suffering real serious bullying to make that comparison.

    Ben, thank you for the heads up.

    He couldv'e chose gank, grief, harass, repeatedly kill or a dozen other words/phrases. Any of them in the context of his comments meant nothing to do with any one who's been bullied in real life and shouldn't be taken that way. To pick one word and ignore context leads to being offended an awful lot.

  • imo best way to handle dismount is make battlemaul dismount enemy mounted players, idea behind this is you can "juke" dodges by dodging yourself rather than using battlemaul. It also makes ganking little bit easier but not too much as players have 3dodges and move slower in enemy territory.

  • Kain Francois.4328Kain Francois.4328 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Update on the stealth issues. We've decided that the Warclaw will no longer be able to be stealthed. Updated the original post.

    Uh oh. RIP Bootts' Bad Builds. Rofl

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Update on the stealth issues. We've decided that the Warclaw will no longer be able to be stealthed. Updated the original post.

    Thanks so much for addressing this

  • Heibi.4251Heibi.4251 Member ✭✭✭

    Not sure if this was mentioned by anyone. How about fixing the EXPLOIT I've seen players(especially Scrappers) use wit the mount. They are able to use utility skills while mounted. And even though they know it's an exploit they keep using it. We've had on Scrapper from a certain guild using this exploit and others(like jumping into Quiten Lake in EBG). These should be priority fixes.
    Possible Fixes if player uses Utility Skills while mounted:
    1. Should write into the code that if a player uses a utility skill while mounted they are sent back to Lion's Arch.
    2. Sent back to Spawn point and dismounted.
    3. Mount skill becomes unusable for 10 minutes.
    4. Sends message to ANeT every time a Utility Skill is used. If used more than X number of times a 1 week ban is issued.

    Henge of Denravi Commander
    CA/CH/HOD/AIR

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Make it a mount skill, no trap please. I'm not sure I like the idea of it hitting multiple players at once. Guess it could be an AOE though. And I like the idea of it being dodge-able. If it hits, both players are yanked off their mounts and pulled into combat. If it misses, both stay mounted.

    Battle Maul should also dismount enemy player on hit, as someone previously mentioned above.

    Also add a siege skill or tactic for dismounts. I like the idea up there of the 'no-mount debuff on enemies' tactic being pulled at a keep.

    Breakbar- yes. I shouldn't be able to leap through a choke point and smash into the backline on the other side. It's been great fun, but it's OP.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ugh.. medium-long term for a dismount skill? Roaming is dying now! We can't wait a year for a fix here..

    Can we at least have a band aid fix - something like reducing warclaw health so that one pounce or attack is enough to dismount a player?

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    Any way.. Also Can mounts "prevent capture-point contribution" too ? This would stop players from sitting on a 10k health mount while capturing a camp or something like a KEEP. Please consider this and read every detailed comment on this post.

    WvW, the no fun game mode since apparently mounts "ruin" the wvw experience by giving everyone essentially an extra 10k hp (like that's even hard to deal with but ok). If I'm capping a zone and on a mount I essentially can't do anything if you contest, I can't use skills outside of exploiting the game without getting off my mount. That's the tradeoff, I get 10k hp but can't actually deal a lot of damage without dismounting.

    And it's not like I can just run away if I want you to stop contesting, I'll have to get off my mount to do so. Sitting on mounts just stops (or just slows down) players from killing each other out of nowhere in a one shot build....

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 I know you said you weren't considering adding more to the war claw Chain pull skill, but why not consider it at the expense of supply? 10 supply for 1 chain pull dismount on both players? 15/20 second ICD 900 range? for ranged dismounts on players who are run in their territory ? and can only be used against mounts.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Update on the stealth issues. We've decided that the Warclaw will no longer be able to be stealthed. Updated the original post.

    What about reducing mount HP to 5.9k like the jackal(evade mechanic is basically the same)? A dismount skill is nice but with 3 evades your chance of it being dodged would be rather high. Missing means the target I assume would be mounted while you would be dismounted. At the moment few classes have the ability to drop the 10-12k HP before you can just run well out of range with all the evades. The 5.9k health would make it so the maul skill plus 1-3 more hits depending on build/class would dismount a player.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @yorick.1305 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Joey.2769 said:
    Remove stealth on mounts and fix server lag caused by mounts. Please make that priority 1.

    Seconding this. Remove the stealth.

    Mount has stealth? If that's from other classes, nerf THEM, not the mount.

    Yes, mount can be stealthed. Make it like gliding where stealth is removed when activating the glider.

    Im not a fan of the stealth either but its much better than the pirate ship we had for years.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
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  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank for these changes!!! Being able to unmount opposing players will bring the war back into this PvP mode. It's really infuriating right now to have to no reason to engage with opponents because of how safe the mount is. There needs to be some risk to moving on your own in WvW, thats why its a combat mode about zergs. If you on your own, you're on your own because you can handle it. I look forward to these changes. But please don't just stop at the trap. I think the break bar is probably the "best" idea, but I would personally love a de-mounting skill that lets us get right into combat.

    Most of all, thank you for being open with your path forward and looking for input from the community. Looking forward to see how we can make the mount work better.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    As for the Path of Fire requirement, I would remove it altogether. WvW mounts would be useless in PvE anyway.

    Not going to happen and everyone needs to just give up on that idea. They did not do it for gliders, they will not do it for mounts.

    The entire point is to get F2P and Alt Accounts to pony up the cash for HoT and PoF. They are not going to remove that reason.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Good to see changes coming to stealthed mounts no longer being a thing.

    Those who seriously think we don't need a dismount skill are either new to WvW and have zero insight/afterthought riding that sweet get out of jail free card new shiny WvW mount or are special snowflake PvE players who want to watch WvW burn and despise anything to do with having their character die outside of their safezone PvE-land. It's WvW. You kill people there. People prancing around on mounts avoiding combat because whoever dismounts first is at a disadvantage is unbalanced. Zergers (probably necros/guards/revs) with some form of attention span longer than 5 seconds/situational awareness should be fine with their triple evade Timmy edition 10k HP mount. It's not like you have to run through the most obvious straight outta' spawn high dense traffic route to get back to your zerg (there are other ways around, who would have thought).

    Incorporate dismount on successful battle maul (for both players involved) or as the devs said - some additional skill that does that function. Make the dismount traps if you really want to, anyone with half a brain cell will know to avoid high traffic routes/choke points where one might be lurking near a camp. It's laughable to see some people in here really think there's gonna be a million of these traps littered around WvW when 80% of the players on a map who just lost an objective can't even be bothered to predetermine where the enemy will obviously hit next and lay down supply/stealth traps.

    TLDR: combat exists in WvW there needs to be counterplay for successfully landing a skill that will dismount both mounted players so combat can carry on as usual.

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    TLDR: combat exists in WvW there needs to be counterplay for successfully landing a skill that will dismount both mounted players so combat can carry on as usual.

    I like the mount the way it is, it's been fine running around roaming and zerging. It excels the most getting from place to place, with a tiny benefit of possibly doing something extra. If you use it that way, you'll still get fights, you will still take objectives. If you are having a problem dealing with someone running away, then we should nerf all of the classes too, since many have ways of circumventing combat, or take 0 damage and can run forever. This is just giving all classes that ability to get away from a bad situation.

    We don't need a dismount skill.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    Could you also add a net throw Trick (AoE targetted throw like Target Painter) that prevents a large number of players from mounting up without putting them in combat?

    Yes, this is something we've thought about. The main thing I don't like about it is the user experience of trying to use inventory items. Especially during conflict.

    Not directly related to the topic, but would effect it if implemented; since we already have a special skill option in pve (most recently used in being able to throw squired dragonspears), would it be possible to be able to bind an inventory item such as siege/traps/tricks to that special skill to quickly bring out what it is we want to chuck out?

    Or has there been thought of adding a wvw unique UI for siege, similar to how we can quickly access novelties (given that they used to be inventory activated items as well?)

    I feel that the former would also apply to how the dismounting ability might be implemented, since we kind of have that special skill in PoF story in multiple instances, such as in lassoing mobile targets when they are in range.

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    At this point, why even bother keeping the kitten mount? Gutting it to the point of non-usefulness. Might as well just remove it. So dumb.

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    At this point, why even bother keeping the kitten mount? Gutting it to the point of non-usefulness. Might as well just remove it. So dumb.

    Because keeping it would make (if these people exist) those that worked so hard to find and overly point out the faults of the mount in order to maybe eradicate it all the more Haha.

    I wish they'd done the same with previous test items that some people found useful instead of flat out removing those things because it didn't suit others.

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065
    Not sure if this is possible; a "special action key" will appear when we target/click a mounted player.

    • Using the "special action key" will consume a trap charge in inventory. Wouldn't trigger if target is not in range or no trap charges in inventory.
    • Need it to be range, 1200 r sounds fair(avg range for all range classes).
    • Can be used while not mounted(for players without expansion and not mounted players stucked in combat). Dismounts the user on use.
    • Unblockable, guardians have aegis up full time etc.
    • Not sure if the trap should be merged with target painter? The trap is pointless atm and prefer not to have another trap taking a bag slot.

    A big "IF" there's a breakbar :smile:. A new mounted skill "Roar!" ; AoE for breakbar/dismount? Not sure how the breakbar idea will work, will it just stun the mount or dismount the player altogether? If it's just the mount, will the stun be removed if the player chosed to ditch his stunned mount?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    At this point, why even bother keeping the kitten mount? Gutting it to the point of non-usefulness. Might as well just remove it. So dumb.

    Because after its fixed it will still serve as a good addition to WvW?
    You'll still be gettin around faster and there will be new mechanics and a shift in META.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
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  • Tyyphoon.5301Tyyphoon.5301 Member ✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    Wow, Warclaw hasnt even been out for 1 month yet and its already getting nerfed to the ground due to fairweather and troll QQs. Lol. Might as well just rollback pre-WvW mount era and refund all our mount-related purchases. RIP.

    I was hoping we would get mounted combat in the future...but wow, this just killed it before it even had a chance to begin.

    What a way to squander resources that could have gone towards WvW alliances features.

    Tyyphóón (Thief) | Lil Tyy (Thief) | Mini Tyy (Ele)
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct | [Caps] Glorious Dappers
    What does not kill me, makes me stronger. -Nietzsche
    Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price. -Sun Tzu

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyyphoon.5301 said:
    Wow, Warclaw hasnt even been out for 1 month yet and its already getting nerfed to the ground due to fairweather and troll QQs. Lol. Might as well just rollback pre-WvW mount era and refund all our mount-related purchases. RIP.

    I was hoping we would get mounted combat in the future...but wow, this just killed it before it even had a chance to begin.

    What a way to squander resources that could have gone towards WvW alliances features.

    Sorry, but there was no chance in hell to ever get mounted combat. The way mounts function in this game simply doesn't allow it.

    Very passive aggressively chuckling, because I'm totally not mad on the Internet.

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Update on the stealth issues. We've decided that the Warclaw will no longer be able to be stealthed. Updated the original post.

    What were the issues?

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    • Make battle maul do +x% damage against mounted characters, in order to quick fix a dismount skill. Example if Dismount does +400% dmg against mounted characters, it would do almost enough damage to dismount with the direct damage, and the bleed should be just enough to dismount afterwards. Might be the easiest way to create a dismount.

    Traps:

    • I understand that making a "trap" is an easy/low effort way to make a counter, it's better than nothing, but as Ben noted, it's not optimal to go through inventory each time.
    • Depending on how much work it is, I've always wanted a sort of "Quick Items" bar that lets you put items into slots F6-F10 (I don't think they're currently used for anything in-game?) That would allow players to pre-set 5 items like siege, traps, food etc without having to go through inventory each time. I understand this probably takes a good bit of work (UI, coding, testing).
    • Another option would be to stuff traps into the "Novelties" section, thus allowing us to use that silly button for something useful in WvW.
    • Depending on some of the other options here, it might be worthwhile to combine several/all traps into 1, might make them more tempting to use, but also gives the risk of triggering for the wrong reason (dismounts and takes away supply when you really wanted it to reveal instead for example).

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." - J. Michael Straczynski
    Currently playing: Planescape Torment, Divinity Original Sin 2, Zelda BotW

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