Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Warclaw bug fixes/changes

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  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Gankers and resetters before warclaw was introduced: "Play a roaming spec if you want to compete with our run away capabilities!"

    Gankers and resetters after warclaw was introduced: "I don't want to switch my spec to longbow soulbeast to be able to deal with players that can run away."

    That's some special type of human we are dealing with in this game mode, that is for sure!

    @topic:
    Okay ANet, just nerf everything. I don't care anymore. The Division 2 has great mechanics too. But keep in mind, that the players who are complaining now, are the players that did kill the game mode during the last few years as they did make newbies, who were ganked 24/7, leave WvW before it even had the chance to attract them. And now we have population issues.

    Been playing WvW for 5 of my 6 years in this game and agree 100%.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Manuhell.2759 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    If you come to WvW to avoid fights, that's a reason why you are only a PvE player and it's just better stick to it instead.

    To be honest ganks are even more frequent now, you are in combat and people chase you forever with the mount speed and kill you.

    WvW is a war zone map, if you like the safety, stick to PvE mobs, it's safe there and you can avoid them easily.

    We already had classes able to do so, or even to escape in the middle of the fight and come back after they recovered (and keep doing that until they killed the opponent). So, are they getting a nerf in their mobility as well? Or escaping and avoiding fights is fine in that case?
    Cause the only thing that changed with the mount is that everyone else can avoid fights as well (albeit not necessarily escape from them). And now it's being severely neutered.
    But either this is in issue, or it is not. If it's an issue, then fix it for everyone. Instead of just nerfing the mounts.

    Sure give daredevil 100% more damage and remove shortbow 5 idc, i never had problems with other classes doing this.

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Karnasis.6892 said:
    I'm personally in favor of just leaving well enough alone. I get there are folks upset that mounts just make the game unfun for them, but if I'm trying to get to my zerg because I joined a rally or play session late and have to cross half the map, I'd prefer a way that I can without interruptions.

    I'm all for fights but for me it's a time and place. Many many times I've been in that late join scenario and suddenly 3/4ths of the way getting to my zerg the first time and bam, thief jumps me out of no where, or a mirage, or literally anything. I've also been in situations where that happened multiple times BEFORE I've wasted 30 or 40 minutes getting to my zerg. Not being forced into combat because I have an 11k hp mount has been a Godsend. And yes I get that roaming has "died" because of mounts but roaming isn't just fights, though it's a good portion of it.

    IF this goes through, I don't think 1200 range is healthy, especially if you are playing a build that isn't meant for roaming. I'd be okay if you have to get close as a risk vs reward system, if I have to get close there is a good chance I might take a hit if the opponent is faster than me or anticipating an attack. Like 600 range would be a bit more reasonable imo.

    And before I get blasted, I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is not being able to fight in a game mode designed for fighting, but the mount has made me more interested in WvW than before, as my favorite map is the ever hated DBL, but that map feels so much larger than the alpine (even if it actually isn't) that the mount just feels right there.
    Still not keen on a forced dismount skill however, but that's my opinion.

    Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

    Ya, man the sole reason WvW was made was so someone could run around the map looking for 1v1s. These towers and camps and keeps are just scenery. Even in your video 50 percent of the players fought you. This mode wasn't made to group up join guilds capture objectives or defend stuff just run around and kitten no one is playing exactly the way you want. Your not a thief or mez I give you that but you even complain about marked like omg im marked. I'm a dot on the map oh noes imagine a stealth class marked not in combat what can he do? Wp go in a diff direction no he's doomed. 20 players are converging on his location as we speak and will all get there b4 the 30 seconds are up and he couldn't avoid a sentry cuz they everywhere. Unplayable. Please. Players like you won't be happy unless a harpoon gun skill is added w half the map range pulls him to you wraps him up in a bow for you to fight.

    I am not the person in the video but i have the exact same issues, yes thay dismount skill but without the CC would be perfect and still leave you in a better position than pre-mounts.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:
    You haven't seen anyone not be able to play? All my roaming friends have quit either WvW or the whole game if they only did WvW.

    Sadly, i know exactly how you feel :cry:

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jakt.9381 said:
    People dont seem to get it. If I see you, you are a bag. I dont care if you are new, old, zergling, roamer, dueler, core ranger, whatever. I am going to attack you and try and kill you if I can. Those are the rules. I play classes who excel at small scale pvp like thief and warrior. How can people be mad about this? Sometimes I attack one person, sometimes I attack three, sometimes maybe a whole zerg. Sometimes I die, sometimes I win. PvP is what I'm here to do. Yes I am going to try and get the jump on you to give myself an advantage. I'm sure you had other plans but since you are my enemy and you are in a contested area, I am going to execute my plan to kill enemies of my faction. What about this is so triggering to people? Its the rules of WvW. Its what the game mode was made to do (among other things). There are no play styles more or less relevant than any other play style. We are all just here to kill each other. People need to get a grip.

    I do like that - if it's red it's dead. Unless it's a dancing choya, they melt my heart, especially with friendship tonic and a kite. Not the Quaggans with sandshark kite though, they must all die.

  • yorick.1305yorick.1305 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    Right now 90% of small scale fights are completely dead because every single mount player can easily pass next to you (literally pass through your hitbox) and press 3 times the dodge bar and escape, in a war zone you can literally touch your enemy without even engaging a fight and still get away, you know how much is it ridiculous?

    One will always be faster/quicker than the other due to territory…..use it? (both)

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    But nobody dismounts because they don't care about the objective.

    Lol, so how does anyone plan on taking anything on their mount? They have to get off it sometime

    People i find like that just mount up and run.

    I guess your just that special snowflake, but I've had a ton of fights where they didn't mount up and run before I attack (and yes they saw me first)

    If i dismount people still walk past me unless they are multiple.

    You won't get a fight every time lol

    Encouraging people to attack me doesn't work because it puts the choice of conflict on the defender which insures that fights either don't happen or as a gank.

    It's worked for me, dunno what the problem is

    Also, why such a low range? How do you even get next to someone to dismount them then? Oh wait, you don't! Just like you intended.

    Because if I get dismounted from 1200 range some classes have a range advantage over others, but hey you wanted a "fight" not a one sided battle right?

    You haven't seen anyone not be able to play? All my roaming friends have quit either WvW or the whole game if they only did WvW.

    That sucks, but hey it sounds more like they wanted an excuse to stop playing GW2, which happens in all games. Also, if they couldn't adapt to the change then maybe we're better off?

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Karnasis.6892 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    Your sole argument is that you don't want to lose your free out of jail ticket, how is this fair in any way? Even if you say you understand that people that just want to run and fight literally can't play the game anymore.

    They still can, I haven't seen anyone not being able to play the game at all, does having amount stop you from engaging in fights if they are dismounted? Does it stop you from logging in and running from camp to camp or towers and potentially running into someone and attacking them? In my experience before the mounts were added people didn't engage unless they thought they had an advantage (be class or build or just that you didn't see them), the only difference is now is someone might be able to out run you. Or maybe, just stop using your mount and others might come to attack you since you "can't run away". You just have to think of ways to encourage folks to engage you instead of you always initiating the fight.

    I'm okay with the mount the way it is, but if it absolutely added, it should just have a short range (600 range might be even to far, I like 300 more after thinking about it)

    But nobody dismounts because they don't care about the objective.

    Poeple i find like that just mount up and run.

    If i dismount poeple still walk past me unless they are multiple.

    Encouraging people to attack me doesn't work because it puts the choice of conflict on the defender which insures that fights either don't happen or as a gank.

    Also, why such a low range? How do you even get next to someone to dismount them then? Oh wait, you don't! Just like you intended.

    You haven't seen anyone not be able to play? All my roaming friends have quit either WvW or the whole game if they only did WvW.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    How about after some war kitten fixes we do somthing about the ridiculous scourge spamming in wvw,zergs and all the classes in it are literally forced into ranged battle due to one classes ability to spam aoe’s in such a ridiculous manner,the literally drive every Zerg.

    Nono Thieves are broken, not necros, necros just disregard the broken kitten they are and just call everything unfair because Thieves and Mesmers are broken even though they just excell in different areas.

    Yeah it’s pretty funny to read a necro calling any class op in wvw consideriing how ridiculous they are in the game mode. They complained high mobility classes “gank” on their way to their Zerg,in wich the walk and spam aoe’s accumulating more kills than the roaming class does in 3 hrs of play lol

    I don't think necro or any class created threads about not being able or expects a free pass to return to the zerg. They used that as a counter to all these threads about the mount and the players complaining about less kills. And like 7/10 of the main complainers at some point in these threads outed themselves as a thief class just like we thought. The mount is fine. Anet can fix these issues in other ways.
    People complain i'm specced to help zerg not full pvp 1v1 spec like these ganker types. Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

  • @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

    What does that even mean. Handed to me. You mean like the free kills you want handed to you. It's a way to take that excuse from the players that don't wanna engage a full pvp spec ganker on their easy target zerg build. I guess you don't want fair fights you just want the free kills vs those players.

  • @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

    What does that even mean. Handed to me. You mean like the free kills you want handed to you. It's a way to take that excuse from the players that don't wanna engage a full pvp spec ganker on their easy target zerg build. I guess you don't want fair fights you just want the free kills vs those players.

    Is anyone who doesn't agree with you a "ganker"?

    Nope. Didn't even call you a ganker. I responded to you but my comments are for the common complaints in most these threads .Why don't you explain what handed to me meant then. Because why would you care if templetes were added which would allow more fights if no one had the excuse of i'm on my zerg build so i bounced on my mount instead of engaging. I do think you main thief by prior comments but who knows.

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

    I guess you don't want fair fights you just want the free kills

    Hows that any different to zergs rolling solo players and roaming groups?
    Oh the ratio thats right, 1:1 compared to 40:5, and somehow the 1:1 is unfair and a free kill?

    geeesh.
    The double standards and entitlements is almost sickening

    Not to trash myself too much here but I can't count how many times Ive gone in hot to gank someone and wound up hitting the respawn button instead.
    ....If only I could count 😂 (bad joke but point still stands)

    As for being ganked while playing Necro, that comes with the territory of playing that class which doesn't excel very well in engagements on its own and usually requires being baby sat by a FB. Law of the jungle so to speak.

    Pretty simple. Zergs aren't going out of there way solely looking for small 5 man groups or solos but will roll over them in the course of playing. You go and seek out 1 v 4s on your ele and have success killing one or 2 and escaping/dying but since you can fight outnumbered does that stop you from completely destroying that 1 guy over and over even tho you know he has no chance. I doubt you let anyway get away. Again I'm a hybrid average player who fights at camps/sentrys but yeah theres certain classes i aint gonna seek out to fight. I don't get ganked often and never really cared and again I'm addressing the common arguement in theses threads. I want more fights mounts give me less fights vs I'm on my zerg build not pvp build why am i gonna hop off my mount when i will probly lose 1v1.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    Is there such thing as a ganker really? Is it only a ganker when solo or small groups kill other solo and small group players? Cuz I’ve got “ganked” multiple times by zergs or large portions of the Zerg that have literally chased me down as a solo player so. Gues it’s ok if ur part of a zerk lmao.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you gonna add a dismount skill then make ot so the warclaw channels energy making it explode sending armor shards in all locations destroying itself and enemy mounts in the area.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2019

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

    I guess you don't want fair fights you just want the free kills

    Hows that any different to zergs rolling solo players and roaming groups?
    Oh the ratio thats right, 1:1 compared to 40:5, and somehow the 1:1 is unfair and a free kill?

    geeesh.
    The double standards and entitlements is almost sickening

    Not to trash myself too much here but I can't count how many times Ive gone in hot to gank someone and wound up hitting the respawn button instead.
    ....If only I could count 😂 (bad joke but point still stands)

    As for being ganked while playing Necro, that comes with the territory of playing that class which doesn't excel very well in engagements on its own and usually requires being baby sat by a FB. Law of the jungle so to speak.

    Pretty simple. Zergs aren't going out of there way solely looking for small 5 man groups or solos but will roll over them in the course of playing. You go and seek out 1 v 4s on your ele and have success killing one or 2 and escaping/dying but since you can fight outnumbered does that stop you from completely destroying that 1 guy over and over even tho you know he has no chance. I doubt you let anyway get away. Again I'm a hybrid average player who fights at camps/sentrys but yeah theres certain classes i aint gonna seek out to fight. I don't get ganked often and never really cared and again I'm addressing the common arguement in theses threads. I want more fights mounts give me less fights vs I'm on my zerg build not pvp build why am i gonna hop off my mount when i will probly lose 1v1.

    So its ok for a zerg to roll a 5 man but its not ok for 1 player to engage another when they cross paths?

    Yep, double standards is strong on this one.

    Also I cant use my Tempest in the current state, I have to rely on Ranged 1 shot builds at the moment to dismount someone. Once a fix to dismounting is running then ill be able to get back into some hybrid roaming bouncing between zergs, small scale and solo on the fly again but right now im forced into builds that I hate playing which happens to be the build that players hate fighting.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2019

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. If they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight? Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills?

    This idea that zerg builds should have safe passage back to their zergs after dying is unhealthy for the mode. First, that you died but your zerg didn't indicates a mistake made in the largescale your build is designed for. You should have to know how to survive with the tag versus being able to come back endlessly with your fast, triple evading mount. Second, the ability to intercept respawners limits the size and supply of the attacking zerg and gives smallscale roamers a role when said zerg is attacking an objective. It has nothing to do with whether or not a kill is 'easy' and everything to do with keeping enemies out of defended objectives. The more enemies kept out, the smaller the enemy zerg becomes and the less supply it has to continue the assault.

    What's unhealthy for the mode is losing players. "Ganking" (as in specialized duel centric builds on a small group of players against less or a single player; gang killing) has lost the mode players. Not only that of course, but it has been a contributing factor. The mount as it is now has clearly brought in fresh blood who stays after getting their mount, and the mode sorely needs it. Just to mention it, I am playing a Runes of Speed Renegade with Shiro and Mallyx. I actually have a very easy time escaping most classes due to having traits that provide me with permanent Superspeed and the ability to create large distances very quickly as I don't need to spend any Energy at all on Impossible Odds to zip away. After I have evaded a couple times with Riposting Shadows, I can swap over to Mallyx and continue hopping along with Unyielding Anguish, which also makes the enemy player(s) get hit with Chill if they run over it, making it even easier for me to get away. Movement impairing skills has no effect as I remove them with my RS, and once I swap I generate Resistance on any Mallyx skill use. I can swap over to Staff if needed to create some extra distance, cleanse and evade, but that's sincerely rare. I'm "speaking up for" those classes and builds who can't safely decide their battles as someone who can. If they make the playing field uneven again, they should nerf my ability to move around too, alongside any other class that can so easily pick their fights. I don't want to be nerfed, it's not like the Renegade dev has done an outstanding job with some of the mechanics, but hey, I'd rather things be fair.

    Dying in a zerg is inevitable. It will happen regardless of how tanky you are. Depending on where you die, getting back can take quite a long time, even if you have a mount. More so if you need to travel through enemy territory where you are slow anyways (this is where I prey on mounted players btw., in our territory, it's super easy to knock someone off their mount with just a short little rotation of conditions that ticks and makes them fall off and get stunned if they don't demount. Any skill I use generate Swiftness, Runes of Speed turns Swiftness into Superspeed, it's not that hard to keep up and pummel them with ranged attacks. Plus I have a very good gap closer to chase with. It's rather rare that I experience mounted players getting away, at least when I am in a small group. And I mostly are at least together with 2-3 other people. As long as I get in a couple hits, you can't cleanse the conditions that ticks away at that Warclaw health. You either demount or get forced off. I also somewhat welcome reinforcements whenever I run together with the larger group, as it brings more people to fight in the on-going battle. I don't care for pips anymore. I just want to have a good time and some epic long lasting big battles spread between smaller scale ones.

    The whole "intercepting" respawners are so not what people have been doing either. Maybe a handful of people do that. The majority have simply been preying on players who don't stand a chance to fight back. I did that in 2012 on Thief and Mesmer. I still do it in 2019 with Renegade, though substantially less, and I've never spawn camped outside of us trying to take the enemy home Keep. Don't even try to make the argument that more than a few people who has been complaining about the mount is doing so for their server and pips sake. They are just after easy kills. It's not hard to demount players if you want to demount them. If you struggle with that, maybe look at your own build or team composition instead of saying the "zergling" who died is at fault. I'm not saying you'll get every target you want to fall off their mount, but you sure can take off the majority.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    I say that we just nerf Mobility across the board for everything. Just give every class the same amount of movement speed regardless. No more teleports, no more leaps, no more evades. Just make every class move at the same speed and only have the same two dodges that everybody gets. That's it. Nothing else. I mean, it's only fair that everybody have the same opportunities to fight as everybody else. Isn't that what everybody who hates mount is trying to say?

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    Well then anet sell build templetes that save specs and gear sets 400 gems for 1st 800 gems for a 2nd or any price really. That way I can swap from a roaming class when not with the zerg and then to a support zerg spec if I chose. Right now im a hybrid type just cause I do both.

    Do you seriously want everything handed to you?

    I guess you don't want fair fights you just want the free kills

    Hows that any different to zergs rolling solo players and roaming groups?
    Oh the ratio thats right, 1:1 compared to 40:5, and somehow the 1:1 is unfair and a free kill?

    geeesh.
    The double standards and entitlements is almost sickening

    Not to trash myself too much here but I can't count how many times Ive gone in hot to gank someone and wound up hitting the respawn button instead.
    ....If only I could count 😂 (bad joke but point still stands)

    As for being ganked while playing Necro, that comes with the territory of playing that class which doesn't excel very well in engagements on its own and usually requires being baby sat by a FB. Law of the jungle so to speak.

    Pretty simple. Zergs aren't going out of there way solely looking for small 5 man groups or solos but will roll over them in the course of playing. You go and seek out 1 v 4s on your ele and have success killing one or 2 and escaping/dying but since you can fight outnumbered does that stop you from completely destroying that 1 guy over and over even tho you know he has no chance. I doubt you let anyway get away. Again I'm a hybrid average player who fights at camps/sentrys but yeah theres certain classes i aint gonna seek out to fight. I don't get ganked often and never really cared and again I'm addressing the common arguement in theses threads. I want more fights mounts give me less fights vs I'm on my zerg build not pvp build why am i gonna hop off my mount when i will probly lose 1v1.

    So its ok for a zerg to roll a 5 man but its not ok for 1 player to engage another when they cross paths?

    Yep, double standards is strong on this one.

    Also I cant use my Tempest in the current state, I have to rely on Ranged 1 shot builds at the moment to dismount someone. Once a fix to dismounting is running then ill be able to get back into some hybrid roaming bouncing between zergs, small scale and solo on the fly again but right now im forced into builds that I hate playing which happens to be the build that players hate fighting.

    Lol silly aussie. Both are fine. What would not be fine is if the zerg kept hunting down those 5 intentionally and you know most times it happens it's not the whole zerg or even the commander. The com heads to next objective most follow and 10ish chase those 5 unless those 5 were so unaware they didn't attempt to move outta the way at all. You keep comparing these like the zerg is looking for 5 man groups. You are looking for 1v1s all full ele pvp spec and got 1000s of kills for years vs zerg specs and now the mount decreased that and you all get upset and try to complain so much and make so many threads to force less hp less evades or a forced dismount so you can get more kills playing wvw as a series of 1v1 encounters. Roam around looking for fight as a staff ele and zerg spec and see the difference in how many fight you win 1v1. You really think half the skills on our bar or weapons or traits we chose in wvw would be the exact same in pvp. If I want to fight players like you i'll start spvp again.

  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. If they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight? Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills?

    This idea that zerg builds should have safe passage back to their zergs after dying is unhealthy for the mode. First, that you died but your zerg didn't indicates a mistake made in the largescale your build is designed for. You should have to know how to survive with the tag versus being able to come back endlessly with your fast, triple evading mount. Second, the ability to intercept respawners limits the size and supply of the attacking zerg and gives smallscale roamers a role when said zerg is attacking an objective. It has nothing to do with whether or not a kill is 'easy' and everything to do with keeping enemies out of defended objectives. The more enemies kept out, the smaller the enemy zerg becomes and the less supply it has to continue the assault.

    What's unhealthy for the mode is losing players. "Ganking" (as in specialized duel centric builds on a small group of players against less or a single player) has lost the mode players. Not only that, but it has been a contributing factor. The mount as it is now has clearly brought in fresh blood who stays after getting their mount, and the mode sorely needs it. Just to mention it, I am playing a Runes of Speed Renegade with Shiro and Mallyx. I actually have a very easy time escaping most classes due to having traits that provide me with permanent Superspeed and the ability to create large distances very quickly as I don't need to spend any Energy at all on Impossible Odds to zip away. After I have evaded a couple times with Riposting Shadows, I can swap over to Mallyx and continue hopping along with Unyielding Anguish, which also makes the enemy player(s) get hit with Chill if they run over it, making it even easier for me to get away. Movement impairing skills has no effect as I remove them with my RS, and once I swap I generate Resistance on any Mallyx skill use. I can swap over to Staff if needed to create some extra distance, cleanse and evade, but that's sincerely rare. I'm "speaking up for" those classes and builds who can't safely decide their battles as someone who can. If they make the playing field uneven again, they should nerf my ability to move around too, alongside any other class that can so easily pick their fights. I don't want to be nerfed, it's not like the Renegade dev has done an outstanding job with some of the mechanics, but hey, I'd rather things be fair.

    Dying in a zerg is inevitable. It will happen regardless of how tanky you are. Depending on where you die, getting back can take quite a long time, even if you have a mount. More so if you need to travel through enemy territory where you are slow anyways (this is where I prey on mounted players btw., in our territory, it's super easy to knock someone off their mount with just a short little rotation of conditions that ticks and makes them fall off and get stunned if they don't demount. Any skill I use generate Swiftness, Runes of Speed turns Swiftness into Superspeed, it's not that hard to keep up and pummel them with ranged attacks. Plus I have a very good gap closer to chase with. It's rather rare that I experience mounted players getting away, at least when I am in a small group. And I mostly are at least together with 2-3 other people. As long as I get in a couple hits, you can't cleanse the conditions that ticks away at that Warclaw health. You either demount or get forced off. I also somewhat welcome reinforcements whenever I run together with the larger group, as it brings more people to fight in the on-going battle. I don't care for pips anymore. I just want to have a good time and some epic long lasting big battles spread between smaller scale ones.

    The whole "intercepting" respawners are so not what people have been doing either. Maybe a handful of people do that. The majority have simply been preying on players who don't stand a chance to fight back. I did that in 2012 on Thief and Mesmer. I still do it in 2019 with Renegade, though substantially less, and I've never spawn camped outside of us trying to take the enemy home Keep. Don't even try to make the argument that more than a few people who has been complaining about the mount is doing so for their server and pips sake. They are just after easy kills. It's not hard to demount players if you want to demount them. If you struggle with that, maybe look at your own build or team composition instead of saying the "zergling" who died is at fault. I'm not saying you'll get every target you want to fall off their mount, but you sure can take off the majority.

    ganking is apart of WvW and its done by everyone.

    If people don't like being ganked, then clearly they dont like WvW and should stay on the 50+ maps specifically catered to them.

    Im sorry if that sounds rude.

    Not rude at all, but ganking still happens now as we type, it hasn't changed with the mount. Skilled small skirmish teams are quickly demounting targets. I see it all the time. I've been the victim of it too. Trap bombs at high traffic areas. Some people used siege to demount other players, and some do it as I do by chasing down the mounted player and hitting them with conditions to force them off one way or the other. Those who still wants to widdle away on smaller numbers just make sure they have some player(s) with the right builds in their little team to deal with mounted players. For what it's worth, I run a bit of a mixed setup with both Power and Condition Damage, you don't have to totally forego physical damage to have some rather decent condi pressure (and it's not like my Runes of Speed helps with the offensive stats directly). Are you going to get all players that run past you? Nope, not at all. But you will get people. You certainly didn't get every target you set your sights on in the past, as there are and have always been classes and builds who gets to choose their fights. Mostly all roaming builds incorporate some sort of "I want to be able to get out of a sticky situation" part, allowing them to pick and choose their fights. If you've roamed around, you know how it feels to be able to pick and choose fights.

    And I wouldn't say "ganking" is the sole purpose of WvW either, so I don't quite agree with "unless you like getting ganked you should stay out", that's definitely not healthy for the mode. Or do you mean if one zerg is bigger than the other that equals ganking? Fair enough, it's short for gang kill, but I'd beg to differ that there's a bit of a difference between 1 player facing off against 3-5 highly specialized players as a supportive build vs. a zerg of 25 fighting a zerg of 50 even if the bigger zerg should in theory have better odds at success. Anyways, some players like to only run with the zerg, some likes only to roam around in smaller teams, some like to run around solo (and yes, that is increasingly more difficult now I'll admit that, but it has been a bit of a pain for years to be fair, unless you specificially have easy access to the best get out of jail cards, like say a Thief/Mesmer/Engineer/Ranger with Stealth mechanics, a Warrior with disgustingly long invulnerability, massive distance creators, etc.) and some likes to mix things up a bit, personally I am bit of the latter. If the mount makes more people enjoy the mode, call them PvE'ers all day long, eventually they'll be a WvW'er if they stick around, I would much rather have the mount remain fun to use for these players while they get comfortable in the mode and starts looking for fights themselves. If it no longer feels fun to them if they can easily be dismounted (something which I still advocate it already is if you go about it right in a small group), and we just lose players immediately, then I'd lament the change over it being frustrating for a what seems to be a smaller vocal subset of players who have yet to adapt. Who's to say these "PvE'ers" won't grow into ballsy WvW'ers that jumps into fights with glee if they're given some time with their "crutch"?

    PS: I am on an EU server (obviously if looking at the little signature), so I have no idea if there's a big discrepancy between how EU players fight and NA ones. I remember years ago that NA guilds who came to EU were surprised at our aggression, but I haven't kept up with the NA side in years now. I still see the same kind of aggression here. EU likes fights for the most part and plenty have been happy enough to jump off their mount without needing to be pressured into doing so. Attack 2 roamers on your own and they are likely to hop off. No wait, I guess you don't want to do that. If nothing else, you can ambush them as they try to take a camp or something, that also works. So I'm sorry if I sound rude, but "roamers" who complain about the mount should perhaps adapt. If I can demount players sometimes on my own or the majority of the time when together with a smaller group of people, I'm pretty sure others can do it too. I'm not a special snowflake in that ability. Adapt your freaking build. Try Speed Runes perhaps, they're pretty fun truth be told. Don't be so bloody stuck on needing damage oriented everything or pure physical damage. And I also hope the "roamers" consider what will happen if a zerg of 50 can just demount them from a distance as well.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    @Shadowcat.2680 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    The mounts has made the mode more "fair" when it comes to the ability to run back to your group, etc. — before, certain classes had a far easier time doing so than others, and with the mount, everyone now has an even playing field when it comes to things like that. It has made movement speed far less important outside of combat too, which is a good thing as not every build and class has equal opportunities to produce it. I have also only perhaps experienced three or four times, that our group were unable to dismount a player on a mount if we really wanted to dismount them, 10k HP is not that much to dish out and condition damage ticks on the mount HP as well. If they got away.. so what? They didn't want to fight, it was one target, their experience in the mode were better for it, while I can find someone else to fight. I am perfectly fine with that if it means the mode retains more and more players. All I've seen are smaller scale roamers complaining that they can't prey on players that don't want to fight them, or are actually unfit to fight them because they run a team-oriented build and not a build suited for dueling. What's the fun in fighting people who can't put up a fight? Why are you considering this dismounting business again? To appease the roamers who wants to have easy kills?

    This idea that zerg builds should have safe passage back to their zergs after dying is unhealthy for the mode. First, that you died but your zerg didn't indicates a mistake made in the largescale your build is designed for. You should have to know how to survive with the tag versus being able to come back endlessly with your fast, triple evading mount. Second, the ability to intercept respawners limits the size and supply of the attacking zerg and gives smallscale roamers a role when said zerg is attacking an objective. It has nothing to do with whether or not a kill is 'easy' and everything to do with keeping enemies out of defended objectives. The more enemies kept out, the smaller the enemy zerg becomes and the less supply it has to continue the assault.

    What's unhealthy for the mode is losing players. "Ganking" (as in specialized duel centric builds on a small group of players against less or a single player) has lost the mode players. Not only that, but it has been a contributing factor. The mount as it is now has clearly brought in fresh blood who stays after getting their mount, and the mode sorely needs it. Just to mention it, I am playing a Runes of Speed Renegade with Shiro and Mallyx. I actually have a very easy time escaping most classes due to having traits that provide me with permanent Superspeed and the ability to create large distances very quickly as I don't need to spend any Energy at all on Impossible Odds to zip away. After I have evaded a couple times with Riposting Shadows, I can swap over to Mallyx and continue hopping along with Unyielding Anguish, which also makes the enemy player(s) get hit with Chill if they run over it, making it even easier for me to get away. Movement impairing skills has no effect as I remove them with my RS, and once I swap I generate Resistance on any Mallyx skill use. I can swap over to Staff if needed to create some extra distance, cleanse and evade, but that's sincerely rare. I'm "speaking up for" those classes and builds who can't safely decide their battles as someone who can. If they make the playing field uneven again, they should nerf my ability to move around too, alongside any other class that can so easily pick their fights. I don't want to be nerfed, it's not like the Renegade dev has done an outstanding job with some of the mechanics, but hey, I'd rather things be fair.

    Dying in a zerg is inevitable. It will happen regardless of how tanky you are. Depending on where you die, getting back can take quite a long time, even if you have a mount. More so if you need to travel through enemy territory where you are slow anyways (this is where I prey on mounted players btw., in our territory, it's super easy to knock someone off their mount with just a short little rotation of conditions that ticks and makes them fall off and get stunned if they don't demount. Any skill I use generate Swiftness, Runes of Speed turns Swiftness into Superspeed, it's not that hard to keep up and pummel them with ranged attacks. Plus I have a very good gap closer to chase with. It's rather rare that I experience mounted players getting away, at least when I am in a small group. And I mostly are at least together with 2-3 other people. As long as I get in a couple hits, you can't cleanse the conditions that ticks away at that Warclaw health. You either demount or get forced off. I also somewhat welcome reinforcements whenever I run together with the larger group, as it brings more people to fight in the on-going battle. I don't care for pips anymore. I just want to have a good time and some epic long lasting big battles spread between smaller scale ones.

    The whole "intercepting" respawners are so not what people have been doing either. Maybe a handful of people do that. The majority have simply been preying on players who don't stand a chance to fight back. I did that in 2012 on Thief and Mesmer. I still do it in 2019 with Renegade, though substantially less, and I've never spawn camped outside of us trying to take the enemy home Keep. Don't even try to make the argument that more than a few people who has been complaining about the mount is doing so for their server and pips sake. They are just after easy kills. It's not hard to demount players if you want to demount them. If you struggle with that, maybe look at your own build or team composition instead of saying the "zergling" who died is at fault. I'm not saying you'll get every target you want to fall off their mount, but you sure can take off the majority.

    ganking is apart of WvW and its done by everyone.

    If people don't like being ganked, then clearly they dont like WvW and should stay on the 50+ maps specifically catered to them.

    Im sorry if that sounds rude.

    If people don't like being ganked is amusing. Are there players that like to be ganked out there? Do you like to be ganked? Sounds like WvW would be empty if every one who doesn't like to be ganked left WvW. No not everyone hides in wait between keep and spawn killing players or at vet creatures on vet creature daily. That's as ganky as it gets esp if you have access to stealth. If you roaming around camps and sentry's killing players you aren't a ganker. If a zerg rolls over a smaller zerg no one was ganked. The byproduct of mounts is less players have to deal with getting killed otw to where they want to go and that's good for the game. For every roamer theres 40 zerglings so ya if all you pvp specced roamers disappeared no one would care.

  • @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Any way.. Also Can mounts "prevent capture-point contribution" too ? This would stop players from sitting on a 10k health mount while capturing a camp or something like a KEEP. Please consider this and read every detailed comment on this post.

    Not sure I see a distinction between a player on a mount capping/defending and a player in a golem. The price difference between the supply cost of the golem and golem/mount health differences seem inline. Both following the same mechanic also seems inline. I don't think I have seen any fights end any differently from this while attacking or defending these last weeks, not sure what you might have encountered though.

    You can disable golems.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't know if anyone has suggested something like this, but I was thinking if we get pounce dismount the major issue is you can still evade it, leaving the attacker dismounted while the opponent gains distance.

    What if we adapted the chain skill so that it prevents the mounted target from using its leap evade?

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    What if we adapted the chain skill so that it prevents the mounted target from using its leap evade?

    For how long? And the person who is attacking still has to burn off some cd's to dismount them.

  • Ich finde es absolut ungerecht, dass nur im englischsprachigen Forum derartige Änderungen von ArenaNet bekanntgegeben werden und auch diskutiert werden. Auch die deutsch sprachigen User haben in ihrem Forum einen Anspruch darauf, von ArenaNet Mitarbeitern bezüglich solcher Änderungen im Vorfeld informiert zu werden, wie die englischsprachigen User hier. Warum ist ArenaNet da so ungerecht? Behandelt uns User (egal welche Sprache) bitte alle gleich fair!!!!!!! Schließlich hat ArenaNet uns auch ein Forum eingerichtet!

  • @atilla.5280 said:
    Ich finde es absolut ungerecht, dass nur im englischsprachigen Forum derartige Änderungen von ArenaNet bekanntgegeben werden und auch diskutiert werden. Auch die deutsch sprachigen User haben in ihrem Forum einen Anspruch darauf, von ArenaNet Mitarbeitern bezüglich solcher Änderungen im Vorfeld informiert zu werden, wie die englischsprachigen User hier. Warum ist ArenaNet da so ungerecht? Behandelt uns User (egal welche Sprache) bitte alle gleich fair!!!!!!! Schließlich hat ArenaNet uns auch ein Forum eingerichtet!

    Die Devs sitzen nun mal in den USA und sprechen kein Deutsch. Wir sollten froh sein, dass sie überhaupt direkt mit uns kommunizieren. Sieh es als Gelegenheit an, deine Englischkenntnisse aufzupolieren.

    (Atilla criticised that the discussion is only happening in the English forums, I explained that it's natural they communicate in their native language)

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deaeira.2651 said:

    @atilla.5280 said:
    Ich finde es absolut ungerecht, dass nur im englischsprachigen Forum derartige Änderungen von ArenaNet bekanntgegeben werden und auch diskutiert werden. Auch die deutsch sprachigen User haben in ihrem Forum einen Anspruch darauf, von ArenaNet Mitarbeitern bezüglich solcher Änderungen im Vorfeld informiert zu werden, wie die englischsprachigen User hier. Warum ist ArenaNet da so ungerecht? Behandelt uns User (egal welche Sprache) bitte alle gleich fair!!!!!!! Schließlich hat ArenaNet uns auch ein Forum eingerichtet!

    Die Devs sitzen nun mal in den USA und sprechen kein Deutsch. Wir sollten froh sein, dass sie überhaupt direkt mit uns kommunizieren. Sieh es als Gelegenheit an, deine Englischkenntnisse aufzupolieren.

    (Atilla criticised that the discussion is only happening in the English forums, I explained that it's natural they communicate in their native language)

    Bunch of localization people were laid off afaik. :(

  • @Chaba.5410 said:
    Bunch of localization people were laid off afaik. :(

    Yeah, it's pretty nasty for the non-English language communities :( But in any case, I wouldn't assume the localization people would translate forum posts of the devs.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    What if we adapted the chain skill so that it prevents the mounted target from using its leap evade?

    For how long? And the person who is attacking still has to burn off some cd's to dismount them.

    The idea being that you chain them, then pounce them to dismount. Nobody loses any cooldowns. Both players are dismounted. If you just give dismount on pounce, they'll simply evade and get further away.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    The idea being that you chain them, then pounce them to dismount. Nobody loses any cooldowns. Both players are dismounted. If you just give dismount on pounce, they'll simply evade and get further away.

    I see what you're saying now, thank you for clarifying.

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    What's unhealthy for the mode is losing players.

    Yes and the mount has cost the mode just as many people as it has brought to it.

    And the people that it's brought often don't want to fight; they want to k-train. There are of course exceptions but that is by and far the rule.

  • Cyric.7813Cyric.7813 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    Just set warkitty's hp to 1and make 1 evade instead of 3

  • Wafu.9247Wafu.9247 Member ✭✭
    edited March 25, 2019

    I think a hp reduction to the Warclaw would greatly improve fights instead of the avoidance of fights that is happening now. cyric mentioned hp pool halfed around 4-5k i think is a good idea. A dismount trap might help but i think its a long shot from a fix, right now fight avoidance is pretty big, which either ends in the zerg/enemy running to keep/tower. It would just make it so i would have to sit in a area(probably a distance away from the set trap) and bait people if i ever wanted to fight them.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaatora.3186 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:

    @Kaatora.3186 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    Mount hp is 12,096.

    Except it's not. It may depends on class, but I'm not entirely confident of that. My necro, engie, guard, ele have mount health of 10972. My rev has 12069.

    My Scourge has 12069(96? idr). Every other stream I've watched on Twitch had the same as me. Did you have all masteries unlocked on all those classes?

    Everything is maxed. I have over 8k points left doing nothing.

    It's affected by health modifiers, such as Herald's minor trait that gives 10% extra (it checks out with the amount if you do the math) and presumably from runes, like Superior Rune of Divinity's 6th bonus.

    There's also reports of mounting/dismounting triggering things reserved for legend swaps, maybe because both the revenant and warclaw come from the mist - but most likely an oversight.

    However all professions share the mount base health of 10972, and so far all we know can affect this number are flat +X% total health modifiers.

  • Can we address the players that are spam using the ability 1? You're fixing the 3 evade, does the ability one come under the 'and such'?
    It's a much more major issue in my opinion, I've encountered a player using it, it's not fun when they can continuously pounce on you without dismounting.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:
    can we have 500 hp mounts like before friday?
    im tired of being circled cus i dont run meta build neither i have kitten load of dps so i basically blow just about every single chronomancer skill then he finally jumps off just before he gets knocked off and all i got left is some shield block...
    kitten yea mounts where totally needed in WvW..

    or they circle me untill their butt buddy comes to help him out, now i dont really care for him tanking me waiting for his buddy but let me already take down alot of his cooldowns instead of em having 2 full non cd's toons ramming away on me while i blown everything on first guy trying to unmount him..

    if 500 HP isnt the option then here u go, take mount HP and if 10k hp has been dealt with then u insta lose 10k HP on dismount.
    if u dismount ur self before 10k HP u still lose x amount of HP that has been dealt to you already.

    or just remove the stinky mount from WvW :D , put vendor in lions arch every1 happy.

    500HP would be way too low as it would get people dismounted with weak NPCs attacks like harpies, dredge, and ogres.

    It would have to be at least 5K so they can survive a couple of 2K hits from NPCs.

This discussion has been closed.
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