You know what really GRINDS MY GEARS?

You can call this a balance suggestion, but really this is just stuff I hate. It can be regardless of whether I think it is genuinely overpowered, it can just be annoying, it can just be over used, or because I think it's is way too easy, or unhealthy for the game mode. And I'll be explaining my reasoning as I go along. But this isn't a "Top 15 most overpowered things in Guild Wars 2". Heck not everything on this list is remotely created equal. They just grind my gears.

FAQ:

"Who are you exactly to be spouting such pretentious nonsense as balance suggestions?"

I'm just one guy who happens to think he has the best opinions about some things just like by definition everyone thinks they have the best opinion about things because that's part of what makes an opinion and opinion.

"How dare you suggest any kind of nerf to my class?!"

"But you're a filthy condition mirage main!"

What can I say? Bustin' makes me feel good.

"Okay.. but how long is this post going to actually be?"

As long as it needs. But if you want an estimation I'd rank it somewhere around

And without further adieu, let's dive right in, shall we?

1 Unstoppable Union. **Potentially 40% uptime on ignoring blocks, ignoring projectile destruction, ignoring projectile reflection. You can run a dedicated utility slot, you can run a traitline that provides unblockable as a grandmaster, you can run both at the same time! You will never have the level of Unblockable uptime as this Adept trait. Unblockable is something that needs to be really carefully considered when applying to traits and skills and Unstoppable Union is too much and too haphazard.

2 Takedown and every pet skill with the same effect:I really don't know who in the world though having pet skills passively roll knockdowns is, but it might be one of the worst ideas ever.

Everytime I down any ranger ever on literally any build ever, I not only have to deal with their absolutely top tier downstate Thunderclap and Lick Wounds making them both difficult to stomp and impossible to ever try to rot, but also have to deal with them having double stomp prevention each and every time. I literally cannot count the number of times this has interrupted stomps. Any sort of Ranger Pet CC should be an active F2 skill for the pet and absolutely never just a passive skill they will roll through automatically off cooldown.

3 Ranger Longbow Just In General2000 effective range because of how its projectiles arc, and a kit so straight forward literally every ranger opens each fight at 1200+ range with Point Blank Shot into Rapid Fire. It doesn't matter if they're brand new level 10 lowbies fighting mobs in PvE, or people who hit top 5 in ranked on Longbow Ranger. Literally every single one open with this combo every time its up.

People talk about what is "Fun" to play against, or what is "healthy" for the game all time. But what I find least fun is getting blindsided and unblockably punted 400+ units by a Ranger over 1600 units away now and having to deal closing 1600 units while potentially having to avoid 10k Longbow Auto Attacks is the absolute worst this game has to offer. It doesn't matter even if you eventually close the gap and beat them into the dirt. And the fact that there is literally 0 difference in approach between how brand new players approach the kit and how top tier players approach the kit just reinforces how problematic it is.

Point Blank Shot is the type of thing that, well, should be point blank. It should be rangers "out" when an enemy closes the gap on a ranger they risk getting chunked back 1200 units back, and something that should punish players for carelessly rushing rangers without any sort of answer to cancel their disengage. Not just something every ranger rolls off cooldown the second its up and open every fight with.

4 SwoopThis does not need to be a 1200 unit disengage the second things go poorly for the ranger on top of their already solid mid tier disengage potential. Simple as that.

5 Healing Turret:

Since core Guild Wars 2 Healing Turret has been the single most overloaded healing skill in the game. Alongside literally top healing, it also provides a field of which Engineers of all specs have a wealth of ways to either blast and/or leap into along with very low cooldown. The original excuse from Engineers was that because it required so much more skills to use as it required you double tapping the heal skill to both deploy it and to over charge it, it deserved to be more rewarding because double tapping a keybind is so much more skill intensive than just tapping it once. Now that turrets automatically overcharge that's longer true. It's time to bring Healing Turret inline with other healing skills.

6 Overcharged Shot:Just give it halfway predictable windup, similar to Warrior Longbow's Pindown. The fact that it knocks the engineer back is hardly a consolation considering just how much stability Holosmiths are running around with these days. If you need to, up the speed of the projectile itself if you need to, but point blank it needs more opportunity to anticipate it.

7 Alchemy+Inventions Specializations:Alchemy and Alchemy combined with Inventions have long been overpowered. I think at least 50% of why people hate scrapper right now just come from the Elixirs+Inventions combo. It's an Ourobooros of anti power damage pressure and condition cleanse. Cleanse an extra condition when you use a healing skill. Create a 6 second Blinding Field if You're Disabled or Protection is even more effective on you. Gain Protection when you use a heal skill and when you grant protection cleanse a condition. Gain excellent offensive boons when you hit 75% health. Gain protection when you disabled (And thus a smoke field, and thus a cleanse, and thus convert a condition into a boon), Automatically convert conditions into boos as soon as 2 conditions are on you at once, Heal Yourself when you grant a boon (And anyone who has fought a holosmith or scrapper knows how many boons they just role around in), Convert Cleansed Conditions into Boons.

It's so, so, so much self synergy and survivability from those two lines. They singlehandedly turn holosmith from a glass cannon so high risk, high reward it is supposed to be in danger of blowing itself up into a highly sturdy sidenoder with top tier burst competitive with Spellbreaker and Boonbeast and completely overshadowed Scrapper until the recent patch power crept Scrapper Gyros. Really Alchemy and Inventions should be nerfed in a way that puts Holosmith in a role similar to Shiro+Glint Herald were it really needs that support to thrive while Scrapper's Defensive Utility allows it to side node and support team fights and be self sufficient.

It's time to hit Alchemy+Inventions.

8 Toss Elixir SHere is where my inner mesmer is definitely showing. But I really hate this. Like, a lot. I do not understand why a Toolbelt Skill for a utility provides the same amount of stealth, to the same number of targets, with less than half the cast time and half the cooldown as Mesmer's Elite Partywide Stealth Skill. And every Engineer running Elixir S is almost certainly running the HGH trait, which puts Toss Elixir S at 1/3 the cooldown of Mass Invisibility. It's such a crazy powerful skill for both engaging and disengaging fights as we as protecting and reviving allies in fights and its cooldown is so spammable It's literally just a 3x more spammable of Mass Invisibility on a utility. Toss Elixir S should be a 2-3 second stealth duration max.

9 Gyros are Unpredictable and Unreadable.

Post rework all gyros are problematic. They either have too little wind up, no wind up at all, and aside from a couple of them you cannot see what they're doing in the heat of battle. Heal Gyro and Purgy Gyro in particular need active effects on the Scrapper's status bar, similar to Boonbeast and Warrior Stances or other active effects like False Oasis and Troll Unguent so players can see exactly what effects the scrapper has active on themselves, letting them know "Oh hey he's healing I should wait to use my bit damage dealing attacks until after he's finished healing. And I should hit him wit poison too to cancel out some of the healing." and "Oh hey he's using purge gyro I should hold off on damage dealing conditions until its done then move in to strike." Instead right now they're almost completely unreadable.

10 Sneak GyroAgain, this is my inner mesmer showing. This one gets it's own spot because of how outrageously and objectively overtuned this thing is now. It's effectively 18 seconds of party stealth, pulsed out over extremely useful tiny increments, that can be leaped and blasted into for more stealth, with no tell at all now, with less than half the cast time and half the cooldown of Mass Invisibility. Mass Invisibility in SPvP is 5 Allies, 2 second cast time, 5 seconds of stealth, 90 second cooldown. Sneak Gyro is less than 1 second activation, 18 seconds of party stealth, 45 second cooldown. Just writing this out should point out how out of whack this skill is.

11 Bulls ChargeAs a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.

12 Magebane TetherIt just stacks too much might. If a Spellbreaker manages to land a burst skill or full counter on you, expect to see them at 25 stacks of might for the foreseeable future, at which point you can expect 8-10k Arcing Slices and Whirlwind Blades coming at you. On the other hand, with revenge counter and full counter so massively nerfed and loss aversion and enchantmant collapse never living up to their potential this is the only good spellbreaker grandmaster. I admit I'd rather see spellbreakers feel like people that break spells, eating heavy boon targets alive canceling out projectiles with easy, revealing stealthed targets, powering through conditions. But right now spelbreaker just feels like boring old power crept warrior and to me that's a real tragedy.

13 Reckless DodgeWarriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

14 Dagger StormOverall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

15 Elementalist in general.I'm personally so disappointed in SD Weaver. Weaver was a specialization I was crazy excited for, a chance for Guild Wars 2 to have a Magic Knight archetype. The type of character that wields a sword in one hand and throws out powerful explosive spells in the other. But sword ended up just being a boring weapon to play in both PvE and PvP and it's equally boring to play against. Elementalist in its current state just leaves PvP in general really devoid of interesting fun archetypes to play and fight against. We're all here playing the PvP game mode of a Swords and Sorcery Role Playing Game. And where is the sorcery? When you think fantasy game, one of the first thing that comes to mind is the mage / wizard, super squishy standing behind the front lines and chucking huge fireballs raining, just raining AoE death on his enemies. But that archetype doesn't exist in Guild Wars 2. Like at all. I personally think its time for DPS elementalists to get some sort of Righteous Instincts Core Guardian type of temporary bandaid so they can run Valkyrie amulet, having the benefit of great power, good ferocity and vitality while having great crit chance through traits. Something carefully thought out so they can run more vitality and toughness amulets and gain solid damage with just a bit more sturdiness to get them through the day but absolutely NOT help in their self healing and sustain and not just give builds like SD Weaver and Support Tempest more free damage on top of their very high ability to just reset the fight through self sustain.

I definitely don't want sword seeing buffs until its reworked into an actually interesting weapon to play and play against. But Scepter Fresh Air Weaver should absolutely be looked into for bringing up to par with other +1 burst roamers like Sic Em Soulbeast and Power Greatsword Mirage and staff should be looked at how it can fulfill the missing class fantasy niche Guild Wars 2's PvP is really lacking.

16 Condition Damage in general is weak.Yes, really.

Condition builds have at this point completely fallen behind power builds both in effectiveness and stated purpose because of the power creep of condition cleanse builds in general. With Condition Mirage more or less out of the meta, and scourge being bad for ranked in general, there really aren't any conditions build left anymore. Power builds will both do more damage more quickly and do more damage over longer fights. Lets compare necromancer who have typically struggled with getting ganked by condition builds like condition mirage:

Consume Conditions: 12x Conditions Removed

Spectral Walk: 5x Conditions Removed over 10 seconds

Well of Power: 5x Conditions Removed over 5 seconds

Plague Signet: 5x Conditions Removed.

And this is is from one of the classes that struggled the hardest with getting attacked by condition pressure. Most other classes are packing similar levels of condition cleanse on top of having way, way higher active defenses to prevent conditions from landing in the first place.

In addition, there are ton of traits that reduce incoming condition damage on really easy to meet requirements like Second Skin and Adaptive Armor which have percentage based damage reductions which defeats the purpose of condition damage as a unique damage type that ignores armor at the cost of taking longer and having the capability of being cleansed. If classes just have 20-33% condition damage reduction like they would with armor and power damage, why are cleanses a thing again?

Like you have to wonder how long does arenanet intend for a condition firebrand need to fight an enemy until they start to "Excel in longer engagements." How long does a condition ranger need to draw out the fight until they should start to gain the momentum and advantage of the fight?

A lot of people are happy to see condition damage get the boot but personally I think the game would be leagues more interesting if both power spellbreaker and condition berserker were viable strategic builds warrior players could potentially run.

There is just too much cleanse in the game at this point. Condition Mirage was the only build that could handle this level of cleanse on its own terms and at this point post damage nerfs even it's on the back foot and struggling to keep up. Scourge only ever got by on its boon corruption potential.

If you made it this far somehow you are a trooper. Thanks for reading up on my rambling long winded thoughts on balance right now

I agree with all but not with the condition cleansei think something like Spectral Walk and Well of Power are OK because its condition cleanse over time VS condition damage over timeand i dont like the insta removal of 5x Conditions

Good points over-all. The biggest limiter in build variety right now is the fact that so many skills can be so variable in their use. I'm glad you touched on this.

Scourge out bunkers scrapper.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:14 Dagger StormOverall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

No.Improvisation has 20 second ICD so you never get any CD reset from your reseted Steal.I permanently see people claiming that due to SE thieves are getting resets so much. Not true, not possible.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:14

Dagger Storm

Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

???

Daggerstorm > Steal > Recharge Daggerstorm > 20 seconds later when steal is off cooldown > steal again and dagger storm. That's easily potential daggerstorms within the span of a pretty realistic duration fight.

TL; DR: Screw engi and ranger, bring back condi mirage.

:smile:

tl;dr nerf all these good sider noders but buff my condi mirage. also take a bad class like weaver or renegade and say it needs buffs because i dont want to look biased pepega

@Derm.4932 said:tl;dr nerf all these good sider noders but buff my condi mirage. also take a bad class like weaver or renegade and say it needs buffs because i dont want to look biased pepega

Nah. Shortbow, Trait and F2, F3, and F4 Renegade buffs, maybe sure. But Khalla legend should never be allowed to be good in PvP. Like we all remember when Scourge dominated after Path of Fire's release and the sheer level of complains about flooding nodes with damage damage, fields, and visual noise. If Khalla Renegade was scourge tier the hate would far worse as they're leagues more visually noisy than Shades ever were.

Any truers in the chat?

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:14

Dagger Storm

Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

You explicitly said each Steal in correlation with SE, that's literally not possible.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:14

Dagger Storm

Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

All I said was get Dagger Storm recharge on Steal back to back.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:3 Ranger Longbow Just In General2000 effective range because of how its projectiles arc, and a kit so straight forward literally every ranger opens each fight at 1200+ range with Point Blank Shot into Rapid Fire. It doesn't matter if they're brand new level 10 lowbies fighting mobs in PvE, or people who hit top 5 in ranked on Longbow Ranger. Literally every single one open with this combo every time its up.

This is the same strategy for every "top performing" build in this game at all levels. PvP is basically just PvE with how rotation-heavy it is due to how every offensive encounter is predicated on having a bunch of damage/CC negation baked into any given class' string of generic attacks. Nobody does anything remotely risky until CDs are up so that they can then do absolutely anything without too much consequence. GW2 has so many forced skill slots with so little depth to combat that everyone ended up just getting freebie, overpowered tripe layered on tripe until PvP turned into one of those Dragonball Z time-filler fight scenes in which character stills flicker about the screen to zero effect.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:14

Dagger Storm

Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

M-hm

@mortrialus.3062 said:and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:14

Dagger Storm

Overall I'm okay with Daggerstorm but there are two aspects I specifically hate; the fact that Improvisation recharges this and the random projectiles that shoot off of it. With Improvisation, you always end up in a fight against that one thief who is running the double steal trait alongside the recharge a skilltype trait and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal equaling three Daggerstorms spammed back to back and you just can't handle that and die and he says "GG EZ." EVERY time. Also if the counter play is to get away from the thief as they're daggerstorming, I shouldn't have to deal with getting pelted by the random projectiles as well.

@mortrialus.3062 said:and gets Daggerstorm recharged each steal

Fair enough, but without Swindler's Equilibrium, and just running the Trickery Traitline it's still every steal. Swindler's Equilibrium still gives them more opportunities to land steal and thus potentially get the recharge so it still ups their recharging daggerstorm potential.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

11 Bulls ChargeAs a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.13 Reckless DodgeWarriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

First off yes a lot of people called for nerfs to Axes of Symmetry. I never saw them as an issue compared to some specific other things. Second...if they removed any of the things that Bull's Charge did then it would go down into the gutter. Remove the Movement? Becomes a second or worse Shield 4 due to the longer cast time. Remove the Evade? It becomes a glorified Rush with a CC that you'll just get CC'd during (smart players will CC you during Rush). Remove the CC? It just becomes a Rush with an Evade which is redundant and you would still complain about it.

As for the dodge...I think it was made plenty clear in another thread that you over-exaggerate the damage of the skill. You posted a link to a screenshot showing it do 2.7k or 2.8k damage and even mentioned yourself that you have no idea how many stacks of Might you even had when that occurred. I have seen no genuinely good player actually complain about Reckless Dodge because they know that if a Warrior is wasting their dodges on dealing damage with them then they are just going to get an easier opportunity at CC or burst on them. It is that simple. Also I posted screenshots in response to that and showed that it doesn't hit nearly as hard as you say without Might stacks and it especially won't against an enemy with Protection on them.

@BlackTruth.6813 said:Okay, nerf reckless dodge then. At least you're not changing the fundamentals by nerfing it.

Also, nerfing Bull's Charge's evade would be nice as well, but lower it's cd to 20 seconds traited as compensation. The attacking while evading mechanic was always cancer. Might be the perfect time to apply the same concept to other classes as well, but with moderation obvs.

You're not touching Eviscerate, Chop, HB, or anything else though.

Don't pander to the guy, he might get a clue eventually but let that happen and don't validate the complaints about Warrior that clearly come from a place of ignorance and just frustration that Mirage has gotten nerfs.

I get so frustrated about this stuff because these forums get filled with misinformation because people are just being impulsive and don't actually know what they are talking about. That grinds my gears.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:I have seen no genuinely good player actually complain about Reckless Dodge because they know that if a Warrior is wasting their dodges on dealing damageI don't think anyone is wasting dodges on damage dood, youre missing the point. stupid crap like this shouldn't even exist cuz its unhealthy for the game.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

11

Bulls Charge

As a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.13

Reckless Dodge

Warriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

I specifically mentioned I had no might stacks or damage modifies when I tested it. So you're already mistaken about my comments there.

My point wasn't that Warriors are obliterating people with dodge, but that it's just funny for them to be so outraged over mirage cloak and ambush attacks for so long when the maximum potential for an ambush attack's damage using realistic PvP Amulets, Runes, Sigils and Traits, Infinite Horizon with three clones maxes out for capping out a potential 4k bonus damage per dodge. And you and the other warrior got so upset about this even after I posted a screenshot taken in a dueling server against a marauder amulet with no might or damage boosts hitting for almost 3k. You then got so bent out of shape you posted screenshots of you mostly not critting as some sort of rebuttal.

This is the sort of thing normal people tend to react with something like "Oh ha, that's kind of funny. I never noticed that." and move on. You on the other hand got so defensive and so bent out of shape I still really don't get why. To the point where you're still coming at me like your life depends on it. Like all I did was respond to someone who was like "Warriors don't do damage while evading attacks like Mirage does" and posted that as a funny joke. And I think most people on this forum who aren't warrior mains are aware that they do plenty of offense while being able to ignore incoming damage.

There have been plenty of metas where warriors and spellbreakers don't run Bull's Charge and have been just fine. Warriors are historically fast, they do need to be as a class so melee focused. But do they need to be able to snap out 5.8k units worth of distance at the drop of a hat by chaining movement skills levels of fast? Literally nothing in the game can hope to compete with that except thieves. To be honest I actually don't know if thieves can keep up with that.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:I have seen no genuinely good player actually complain about Reckless Dodge because they

know

that if a Warrior is wasting their dodges on dealing damageI don't think anyone is wasting dodges on damage dood, youre missing the point. stupid kitten like this shouldn't even exist cuz its unhealthy for the game.

Their point is that it is too much damage...and it isn't...

You call Reckless Dodge unhealthy for the game when it has mechanically functioned this way for years. The Unblockable effect and Might gain is only as recent as 2017.

Are people carried by this trait? No. Sure its unblockable damage but its much less damage and much less consistent than say...other unblockable effects/skills out there. But no, sure, this is unhealthy.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:Their point is that it is too much damage...and it isn't...

You call Reckless Dodge unhealthy for the game when it has mechanically functioned this way for years. The Unblockable effect and Might gain is only as recent as 2017.

Are people carried by this trait? No. Sure its unblockable damage but its much less damage and much less consistent than say...other unblockable effects/skills out there. But no, sure, this is unhealthy.

2k per dodge vs a light armor target is too much damage.so its been unhealthy since 2017? lol.so this isn't so bad cuz there are worse things out there... k lol.

editits only 2k no might.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:I have seen no genuinely good player actually complain about Reckless Dodge because they

know

that if a Warrior is wasting their dodges on dealing damageI don't think anyone is wasting dodges on damage dood, youre missing the point. stupid kitten like this shouldn't even exist cuz its unhealthy for the game.

It's not so much that people are carried by it so much as why is it 75% as much damage as mirage's highest damage ambush attacks which is an entire elite specialization mechanic, unblockable, and warriors don't even notice they have it?

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

11

Bulls Charge

As a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.13

Reckless Dodge

Warriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

@"BlackTruth.6813" said:Okay, nerf reckless dodge then. At least you're not changing the fundamentals by nerfing it.

Also, nerfing Bull's Charge's evade would be nice as well, but lower it's cd to 20 seconds traited as compensation. The attacking while evading mechanic was always cancer. Might be the perfect time to apply the same concept to other classes as well, but with moderation obvs.

You're not touching Eviscerate, Chop, HB, or anything else though.

It's still possible to remove Bull's damage, or some amount of nerf. Not sure why you keep leaving that possibility out. Also, I don't think most people's beef with the dodge dmg trait trait is that oh no, they can use their dodge to get a minimal amount of damage out of it. It's that it's the very first trait in the tree and is very overloaded for its position there. Damage (not an insignificant amount, but nothing to whine about either), might (for heal and more endurance, scales on enemies), etc etc.

And, obviously, anyone using a dodge for damage is an absolute moron. It's that you can do a not-insignificant amount of damage while evading, and get a pretty hefty amount of benefits from the very first trait on the dodge. It's basically a free GS AA attack attached to dodge. It could easily swap places with Brave Stride. It's icing on the cake to the point where it dilutes the cake.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/558161025200029699/unknown.png with no MS or other buffs.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/170805715013730304/558164562986139649/unknown.png with ~10 might and 1 insight

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

11

Bulls Charge

As a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.13

Reckless Dodge

Warriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

Like I've said before many people have been misinformed about what was and is actually wrong with Mirage. Axes of Symmetry really...wasn't the problem, the length of Mirage Cloak was a contributor but the damage from Mirage wasn't really the issue. I've specifically pointed out multiple times that the issue with Mirage is their ability to Mirage Cloak while they are CC'd (No not Elusive Mind). I'm far from outraged by the things you're suggesting, I've kept my focus more fixed on that one actual issue, I'm not Jawgeous going around nitpicking every non issue thing on Mirage in a video. Seriously...the guy let his frustration get the better of him and looked a little silly for it. No hate meant, people just make mistakes and he's only human.

My frustrations typically lie in people's misinformation and possible willful ignorance that accompanies their complaints about these things. You talk about this Unblockable dodge damage being too much or too high yet neglect the fact that its also causing you to expend a core defensive mechanic in the game just for the sake of dealing this damage. Where in Warrior's case their "invulnerable" periods where they deal damage is really only just Endure Pain and they still get affected by Conditions during this duration, as well as CC's.

Also I seem to recall you getting rather "bent out of shape" during that discussion so don't go projecting that only onto me now. I only posted those screenshots to reflect their base damage against unbuffed targets, whereas in a real fight someone posted a screenshot for me showing the damage of the dodge on a Holosmith with Protection. It wasn't really a lot (it was like under 700 damage non-crit), granted they could've just gotten unlucky with the RNG there but even so...the complaint goes nowhere. I only "still come at you" because this forum has a history of people spreading around horrible information about things that many others take as fact when its...not. Such as why I kept correcting you and others on your claims that Quickness affects every single Warrior Burst skill, or that it affects Eviscerate, which it doesn't. Doesn't affect Eviscerate and doesn't affect Breaching Strike.

In regards to Bull's Charge not being in the meta several times, yeah those times were 1) Berserker in HoT where they preferred Headbutt and 2) The initial meta Spellbreaker builds due to the egregious amounts of Condi from Scourges and FC being as strong as it was damage wise and Bull's Charge being relatively unnecessary especially without access to the Strength line.

As for Warrior mobility I certainly don't deny that its good, but to suggest that a Thief can't keep up with it? Thats...cute? Thats also another horrible exaggeration. They most certainly can, they have much more frequent access to their shortbow teleport than Warrior's do with their long distance mobility skills, especially when paired with their other teleports like Shadowstep and Steal. Also they don't "snap" 5.8k units of distance with their mobility. Man I can only imagine how that would feel if they did. Then I wouldn't get caught by CC in the middle of my Rush, or just have a thief teleport to and daze me after I used gs3.

Which for that matter...where are you getting these "5.8k units" from? Another exaggeration?

Rush: 1,200 unitsBull's Charge: 900 unitsSavage Leap (Sword 2): 600 unitsWhirlwind Attack (Greatsword 3): 450 units

=3,150 units total

Unless you're counting Rampage skills in which case...

Rush: 1,200 unitsBull's Charge: 900 unitsSavage Leap (Sword 2): 600 unitsWhirlwind Attack (Greatsword 3): 450 unitsDash (Rampage 3): 1,000 unitsSeismic Leap (Rampage 5): 600 units

=4,750 units total

But if that is the case we are talking about a large number of CD's being used to do this, assuming all are available.Rush: 16 second CD traitedBull's Charge: 24 second CD traitedSavage Leap: 8 second CDWhirlwind Attack: 8 second CD traitedand then Rampage itself which is a 72 second CD when traited

And thats for the Magebane build. This post will get much longer if I start including dagger but I think you hopefully get my point. You over-exaggerate this stuff...severely just to try and get your point across.

Also I am really just curious as to why this stuff is so problematic now for people. It legitimately just sounds a lot like its just Mirages are actually getting hit by things now due to the shorter evade duration that they haven't adjusted to yet.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

11

Bulls Charge

As a utility it kind of does everything. It has great movement for both engaging, chasing, disengaging, and roaming across the map. It does excellent damage. Its a 3 second knockdown. It's a combo finisher. It evades. The way Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just did too much on too little of a cooldown, Bull's Charge should have to do like 2 of the four things it currently does. Pick them.13

Reckless Dodge

Warriors literally refuse to believe me when I tell them this easily crits for 3k in SPvP, unboosted by might and damage modifies like Peak Performance, even when I post screenshots of exactly that. And it's unblockable. I genuinely can't believe warriors were up in arms over 4k maximum potential Imaginary Axes and Chaos Vortexes when their own dodges do this and unblockable as well. It's not breaking the game, but to me its just funny in like a "WHY????" sort of way.

Mirage Cloak also requires expending a core defensive mechanic for the sake of an attack that'll do about 4k maximum .

In regards to Bull's Charge not being in the meta several times, yeah those times were 1) Berserker in HoT where they preferred Headbutt and 2) The initial meta Spellbreaker builds due to the egregious amounts of Condi from Scourges and FC being as strong as it was damage wise and Bull's Charge being relatively unnecessary especially without access to the Strength line.

As for Warrior mobility I certainly don't deny that its good, but to suggest that a Thief can't keep up with it? Thats...cute? Thats also another horrible exaggeration. They most certainly can, they have much more frequent access to their shortbow teleport than Warrior's do with their long distance mobility skills, especially when paired with their other teleports like Shadowstep and Steal. Also they don't "snap" 5.8k units of distance with their mobility. Man I can only imagine how that would feel if they did. Then I wouldn't get caught by CC in the middle of my Rush, or just have a thief teleport to and daze me after I used gs3.

A thief will beat a warrior in a prolonged race. But can a meta SD thief really effectively chase a Meta Spellbreaker? Yes, shortbow 5 will move them quickly is a thief really going to try to spend 21 initiative just on Infiltrator's Arrow to keep up with a Spellbreaker trying to disengage from a fight? Especially since that means they aren't going to have much initiative to spend on actually trying to secure the kill?

Shadowstep: 1200 UnitsSteal: 1200 UnitsInfiltrator's Strike: 900 Units

Those easy and cheap and can definitely be used to finish a kill.

And then you have Infiltrator's Arrow, at 6 Initiative a pop which is a very heavy investment if you're actively trying to finish of a kill in a theoretical plus. You can theoretically spend 18 initiative which would put you at 6300 units. But at that point you've sacrificed most of your kill potential. DP daredevil with Shadow Shot can chase far more effectively but it's also not particularly good these days in the grand scheme of the meta.

Which for that matter...where are you getting these "5.8k units" from? Another exaggeration?And thats for the Magebane build. This post will get much longer if I start including dagger but I think you hopefully get my point. You over-exaggerate this stuff...severely just to try and get your point across.

Savage Leap and Whirlwind attack are both on short enough cooldowns as to be used twice in the chain without any delay in movement chaining. So with the meta magebane tether build:

Savage Leap: 600 UnitsWhirlwind Attack: 450 UnitsRush: 1200 UnitsBull's Charge: 900 UnitsSeismic Leap: 600 UnitsDash: 1000 UnitsWhirlwind Attack: 450 UnitsSavage Leap: 600 Units

= 5,800 units of movement in about 10 seconds.

And meta spellbreaker won't need to use all of this disengage at once. Sword 2+Rush+Bull's Charge is almost always going to be enough to get out of danger and reset the fight.

Agree with the ranger's range (literally every ranger does that combo from range....) Also agree with War's BC. But just FYI, the teather has already been nerfed, and you CANNOT get 25 stacks of might from it. I would also like them to nerf the Rampage, because it makes war vs war very boring: bite some cool downs, and then pop rampage, and the other has to run. But to nerf these, ANET need to buff some others, otherwise war will be totally trash.