Elementalist Needs A Purpose — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Elementalist Needs A Purpose

I've always felt that Elementalist wasn't made with a specific role in mind.

With other classes, you can sort-of guess the play style from the names;
A Guardian guards, a Warrior goes all-in or dies trying, a Ranger fights from a range. But Elementalist? They fight with elements..? Doesn't say much.
It feels like they were trying to make a jack of all trades, but "master of none" weighs more heavily on the scales.

You can play like other styles, but you can't build like them.

You can try to play bunker/support Tempest, but a Firebrand or Druid does that job better. With Firebrand now being a thing, the killing nerf of Wash the Pain Away back during HoT doesn't make sense anymore, which is why I wish they'd put it back to its original healing power.

You can try to play DPS Weaver, but a Warrior can just pop Endure Pain and swat you like a fly. The sacrifice in sustainability necessary to even make a dent in the opponent, makes you far too weak to survive a single second of burst from any other class.

If only lesser-obsidian flesh was a thing...

I wish Arcane shield would simply block attacks for 3 seconds instead of just popping like a balloon after 3 hits. Maybe that alone would be enough to make Ele a little more viable...
Or maybe give Ele weapon swap? I feel that would also solve a lot of its problems. Just try to 1v1 someone with a staff, you're dead before you've even cast your autoattack.

There's so much Ele has, but nothing really stands out. Out of all the conjured weapons, two are seeing usage; FGS and Lightning Hammer. The best thing Ele is known for is... Meteor Shower.

In my 2000+ hours of playing Ele, I've never gotten a firm grip on what I'm meant to be doing. Yet the other classes I play such as Firebrand, I've picked up in a single day.

I just wish Ele had a specific role that no other class could do better.

Comments

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To begin with, 'guardian guards' isn't really accurate, or they'd be loaded with toughness and vitality, and 'ranger' doesn't refer to ranged combat, but rather to the fact they range about in the wilderness (as do all professions, but nevertheless).
    The problem with your complaint is that it presupposes that each profession was designed with a 'role' in mind, but that is specifically not the case. In fact, the idea was to avoid players falling into set roles (i.e., the so-called trinity of tank/heal/dps). The fact that players have explored the limits of each profession's potential in order to define some specific roles was perhaps inevitable. But it would have been nigh impossible to predict ahead of time exactly how each profession would end up fitting into group dynamics at the hands of players.
    After the fact, adjustments are made based on what is observed, to try to 'balance' the usefulness of each profession's skills, but if it turns out that one or another is simply not well-designed for some specific function, that is only to be expected imo. Other than calling for a complete overhaul of the profession I'm not sure what can be usefully done.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Ele does have a purpose though. It exists to lure new players to the game with cool/flashy animations and particle effects. :p

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2019

    That why they messed up Tempest. Instead of give elem utilities to buff allies, they only give it "regular" boons, or very niche purpose like in small zerg and kept the "hybrid" design of doing a bit of all, but not at the same time.
    Aura are useless in Pve, and nearly harmless in pvp/wvw in their current state : Schocking aura, need dagger main hand, or succed air overload + 2 traits to earn the aura and share it. Magnetic aura is okai. Others are useless unless for spreading the boons or some condicleanse. May be people will be offended by, but compare to FB in all game mods : you can share signets (+216* power for example) you can share battle presence, +100 toughness, +200 toughness with chapter 3, Eternal Oasis that is very very powerful in organised group and converts conditions, and quickness, aegis, stab, resistance etc, ca. Scourge with barriers, vampiric presence, might stacking, teleports ... Renegade, chrono, Warrior ...
    Battle presence vs Soothing Mist : BP, 105 per second, perma uptime VS 80/s to elem, 92 to allies AND you need to refresh it by camping or swapping to water AND it is buggued since the first day, some ticks have reduced number....

    Tempest has some powefull skills too, like Sand squall and heat sync, but no abilities, no "power" boons to be a suitable boonsharing spec, it's a second hand class.
    Tempest needs quickness or alacrity, needs stab, needs migts per stack of 5 or 6, need power buff like sharing Harmonious conduit or the fresh air buff, needs buff to its arcanes skills (pls reverse change of Arcane Power ).
    Tempest has no purpose but a second support to fill gaps.

    Weaver. I don't care. I will not play it again next League, and I don't play it in pve. Yesterday I play marauder SB no joke I tanked better, and obviously killed people (and scrappers) faster than fresh air or don't know what, it was my first time playing SB ... Unless the "pleasure" there is no interest to play weaver in league; just look at AT and the numbers of elems ...

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭

    @Biff.5312 said:
    To begin with, 'guardian guards' isn't really accurate, or they'd be loaded with toughness and vitality, and 'ranger' doesn't refer to ranged combat, but rather to the fact they range about in the wilderness (as do all professions, but nevertheless).
    The problem with your complaint is that it presupposes that each profession was designed with a 'role' in mind, but that is specifically not the case. In fact, the idea was to avoid players falling into set roles (i.e., the so-called trinity of tank/heal/dps). The fact that players have explored the limits of each profession's potential in order to define some specific roles was perhaps inevitable. But it would have been nigh impossible to predict ahead of time exactly how each profession would end up fitting into group dynamics at the hands of players.
    After the fact, adjustments are made based on what is observed, to try to 'balance' the usefulness of each profession's skills, but if it turns out that one or another is simply not well-designed for some specific function, that is only to be expected imo. Other than calling for a complete overhaul of the profession I'm not sure what can be usefully done.

    What could be done is taking note of the areas where Ele could be doing better. Why buff Tempest's auras and not the rest of the class? And the buffs were laughable -- Wash the Pain Away's final pulse now heals ONE condition on the FINAL pulse. That just feels like a cruel joke. Elementalist has such poor cleansing, and those conditions will just be immediately reapplied. Conditions are Ele's biggest bane. Even if it was 1 condition per pulse, it still wouldn't be enough.

    Elementalists are a joke at the moment. Weaver's damage almost makes them viable. Almost.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    Yeah but they can fit one, and become essential pillars or at least bring important/unique utilities than others can't or not at the same level.
    I know it's hard to "create" a role or roles to all specs without making duplicates, but at least create alternative solution, like chrono/druid > ren/FB.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    Yeah but they can fit one, and become essential pillars or at least bring important/unique utilities than others can't or not at the same level.
    I know it's hard to "create" a role or roles to all specs without making duplicates, but at least create alternative solution, like chrono/druid > ren/FB.

    They can ... but my point is, I don't think they would since the intention of the class isn't to have a role, it's to allow people to choose a class because of the idea of what it does.

    I find the idea Ele struggles without a 'role' opposite what I have seen and how Ele's have been perceived since the beginning of the game as well. Ele is certainly a 'HAVE' class. Unless we are talking PVP, I've not known an ele to complain they aren't desirable teammates, even without a roles-based system in the game.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    Yeah but they can fit one, and become essential pillars or at least bring important/unique utilities than others can't or not at the same level.
    I know it's hard to "create" a role or roles to all specs without making duplicates, but at least create alternative solution, like chrono/druid > ren/FB.

    They can ... but my point is, I don't think they would since the intention of the class isn't to have a role, it's to allow people to choose a class because of the idea of what it does.

    I find the idea Ele struggles without a 'role' opposite what I have seen and how Ele's have been perceived since the beginning of the game as well. Ele is certainly a 'HAVE' class. Unless we are talking PVP, I've not known an ele to complain they aren't desirable teammates, even without a roles-based system in the game.

    Yes, we're talking PvP. But even in PvE Ele has awful survivability. I can't stress enough how easy it is to kill an Ele with conditions. That's something nobody can deny -- they have awful healing and almost nonexistent cleansing.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    Yeah but they can fit one, and become essential pillars or at least bring important/unique utilities than others can't or not at the same level.
    I know it's hard to "create" a role or roles to all specs without making duplicates, but at least create alternative solution, like chrono/druid > ren/FB.

    They can ... but my point is, I don't think they would since the intention of the class isn't to have a role, it's to allow people to choose a class because of the idea of what it does.

    I find the idea Ele struggles without a 'role' opposite what I have seen and how Ele's have been perceived since the beginning of the game as well. Ele is certainly a 'HAVE' class. Unless we are talking PVP, I've not known an ele to complain they aren't desirable teammates, even without a roles-based system in the game.

    Yes, we're talking PvP. But even in PvE Ele has awful survivability. I can't stress enough how easy it is to kill an Ele with conditions. That's something nobody can deny -- they have awful healing and almost nonexistent cleansing.

    Having a role doesn't fix any of that though, so what are you trying to achieve? let me put it a different way ... if you are talking about PVP, what 'role' do you think Ele should get to fix the problems it has? I see other especs that are more directed at 'roles', but they aren't used in PVP ... so I think the idea that Ele needs a role doesn't necessarily fix what you think is wrong with it.

    A class doing something 'the best' doesn't fix problems with that class. In fact, it can create problems as we have seen.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    No class is made with a specific role in mind. Classes are designed to their concept, not some role. That's intended, from day 1. It's one of the selling points of the game actually.

    Yeah but they can fit one, and become essential pillars or at least bring important/unique utilities than others can't or not at the same level.
    I know it's hard to "create" a role or roles to all specs without making duplicates, but at least create alternative solution, like chrono/druid > ren/FB.

    They can ... but my point is, I don't think they would since the intention of the class isn't to have a role, it's to allow people to choose a class because of the idea of what it does.

    I find the idea Ele struggles without a 'role' opposite what I have seen and how Ele's have been perceived since the beginning of the game as well. Ele is certainly a 'HAVE' class. Unless we are talking PVP, I've not known an ele to complain they aren't desirable teammates, even without a roles-based system in the game.

    Yes, we're talking PvP. But even in PvE Ele has awful survivability. I can't stress enough how easy it is to kill an Ele with conditions. That's something nobody can deny -- they have awful healing and almost nonexistent cleansing.

    Having a role doesn't fix any of that though, so what are you trying to achieve? let me put it a different way ... if you are talking about PVP, what 'role' do you think Ele should get to fix the problems it has? I see other especs that are more directed at 'roles', but they aren't used in PVP ... so I think the idea that Ele needs a role isn't going to fix what you think is wrong with it.

    A class doing something 'the best' doesn't fix problems with that class. In fact, it can create problems as we have seen.

    I'm trying to explain that Ele suffers from a serious lack of any real impact on whatever job it is they're trying to do, and it's not that they're "slightly" weaker than whatever respective class fits the role better, it's that they're so underwhelming that it's a better investment to just reroll.

    People will always try to play a specific role, that's not something that can be avoided. My issue is that Ele can't fit any role even by half. They're too frail, too underwhelming. A few small buffs wouldn't suddenly make them overpowered, it would make them slightly less underwhelming.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    This line of thought in GW2 doesn't really make sense, because the classes aren't based on filling roles, they are more conceptual.

    I'm not sure your perception is correct either. I have yet to see an Ele not being desirable in PVE because it doesn't have a 'role'. In fact, Ele is one of the strongest offensive boon share any team can get, as well as doing it's own crapton of DPS. That's THE most desirable role a class can fill in PVE.

    On the competitive side, the idea that a role is going to correct some deficiency Ele has is not necessarily true. There is no guarantee that the role you get will fix the problems Ele has. Besides, the whole concept of the class is based on hard-forcing players into switchable streams. The 'role' you pick is based on the element you choose.

    We aren't talking about a few small buffs here ... giving ele a role is a class re-defining event. It seems to me you just aren't sure what you are asking for or why you want it. You have to understand that a role doesn't fix performance issues or even desirability.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    Its not really that ele has no role(s) in PvP ....it's just that they are bad at them when compared to other classes.
    Tempest is a support/healer. But its worse than Firebrand.
    Weaver is a duelist/DPS hybrid, but its worse at those than its competitors.

    Weaver in specific is actually pretty similar to holosmoth in terms of "role"....only that holo is better at every aspect of it.

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Battle presence vs Soothing Mist : BP, 105 per second, perma uptime VS 80/s to elem, 92 to allies AND you need to refresh it by camping or swapping to water AND it is buggued since the first day, some ticks have reduced number....

    You're comparing a traited VoJ heal to an untraited Soothing Mist. Soothing Mist when traited heals for 160/s and lasts 10 seconds instead of the 3s you get from Battle Presence. Also completely ignoring the scaling on both skills. At 1200 healing power, Battle Presence heals for 195/s and Soothing Mist heals for 400/s

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    This line of thought in GW2 doesn't really make sense, because the classes aren't based on filling roles, they are more conceptual.

    I'm not sure your perception is correct either. I have yet to see an Ele not being desirable in PVE because it doesn't have a 'role'. In fact, Ele is one of the strongest offensive boon share any team can get, as well as doing it's own crapton of DPS. That's THE most desirable role a class can fill in PVE.

    On the competitive side, the idea that a role is going to correct some deficiency Ele has is not necessarily true. There is no guarantee that the role you get will fix the problems Ele has. Besides, the whole concept of the class is based on hard-forcing players into switchable streams. The 'role' you pick is based on the element you choose.

    We aren't talking about a few small buffs here ... giving ele a role is a class re-defining event. It seems to me you just aren't sure what you are asking for or why you want it. You have to understand that a role doesn't fix performance issues or even desirability.

    I want a solid reason to pick Ele over the other classes I have. Because Ele's the one I've put the most time and gold into developing, yet it's not performing half as well as any of the other classes I have, both in PvP or WvW. And since we're on the topic of PvE, maybe we can address the abysmal CC Ele has compared to other classes.

    If I had to ask for just one thing, I'd ask for wash the pain away's healing power to be put back to the strength it had on HoT's release. There's no need for it to stay nerfed anymore, Firebrand exists.

  • Reshiram.6274Reshiram.6274 Member
    edited March 23, 2019

    Reading all this, I think this is more about the strength of an Elementalist's niche, rather than it having a dedicated role (DPS/healer/support). It also needs to be specified whether it's about PvE, PvP or WvW and what they can bring to the table (in this case, all of them, I think). As an Engineer main I can sort of feel the mediocrity of the jack-of-all-trades syndrome Ele may experience.

    I usually only see core Elementalists as either non-capped/non-expansion players or dedicated Fresh Air builds. While they have good damage output, it usually boils down to having to sacrifice almost all sustainability, including traits (which is why they wouldn't run Tempest/Weaver for that Fire/Air/Arcane traitline, I think). This means they're not left with much other than lackluster utilities like Arcane Shield (compared to say, double-layering Warrior's Endure Pain or Ranger's Signet of Stone). In PvE they don't have much of a presence. The days of dagger/dagger Ele is long gone.

    When it comes to Tempest, I recall it having to be toned town several times because it was the end-all DPS in Raids. This included several sloppy Lava Font and Meteor Shower and the nerf to Wash the Pain away. I can imagine this lead to a lackluster PvE experience whereas most classes just have a good time going all out in Berserker's. What Tempest is good at, however, is healing, having some of the highest output out there. It just doesn't get picked because of the lackluster offensive support it provides, and the recent patches don't seem to reinforce it that much (but still do, which should be encouraged!) outside of 10-man group auras. Instead, you still have people who prefer Druids, Firebrands, Renegade (PvE) and Scrapper (PvP) as healers in all three game modes. Overall, Tempest seems to be very alike Scrapper, a really dominant class in a certain game mode (PvE for former, PvP for latter) that caused nerfs all around without compensation and getting it back later in weirder, streamlined form.

    While Weaver is still one of the strongest DPS classes out there in PvE, its complexity simply just isn't that attractive/rewarding compared to the likeliness of Daredevils and Deadeye's easy DPS aside from that fun factor of difficulty. What it has going for it is that recent buffs allow Condi Weaver to be a strong option and the fact it actually has cleave and large hitbox advantages. It's the one thing of Ele that feels wholesome enough to play in PvE to me. I really don't know how to feel about it in PvP environments, however. It's really annoying to 1v1 and thus makes a good duelist, but I just feel Spellbreaker and Soulbeast have much more killing potential and versatily (also hugely because Weavers are softlocked in Water for cleansing). In group fights, however, I just tend to see its sustain collapse without contributing much. It doesn't really have a place and it's pretty much true that it's only notorious for hitting siege in WvW with Meteor Shower. This leads to the most exciting thing being Churning Earth gimmicks.

    TL;DR: Elementalist doesn't really have a strong niche in both PvE and PvP modes and could use buffs not to simply up the numbers, but push it into having advantages other classes don't have AND group compositions need, like specific buffs, boons or versatility. While it is a good alternative, I feel its risk-reward is nowhere close to being advantageous.

    Hope this helps.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Reshiram.6274 said:
    What it has going for it is that recent buffs allow Condi Weaver to be a strong option and the fact it actually has cleave and large hitbox advantages. It's the one thing of Ele that feels wholesome enough to play in PvE to me. I really don't know how to feel about it in PvP environments, however.

    Do you imply there is a condi build for Weaver which allows it to do at least 30k DPS in PvE (all buffs + food + 25 stacks of vulnerability on test golem)? Could you provide a link to it? As tbh it seems rather hard to believe.

  • Luindu.2418Luindu.2418 Member ✭✭

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @Reshiram.6274 said:
    What it has going for it is that recent buffs allow Condi Weaver to be a strong option and the fact it actually has cleave and large hitbox advantages. It's the one thing of Ele that feels wholesome enough to play in PvE to me. I really don't know how to feel about it in PvP environments, however.

    Do you imply there is a condi build for Weaver which allows it to do at least 30k DPS in PvE (all buffs + food + 25 stacks of vulnerability on test golem)? Could you provide a link to it? As tbh it seems rather hard to believe.

    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/elementalist/weaver/condition/

  • @Luindu.2418 said:

    @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:

    @Reshiram.6274 said:
    What it has going for it is that recent buffs allow Condi Weaver to be a strong option and the fact it actually has cleave and large hitbox advantages. It's the one thing of Ele that feels wholesome enough to play in PvE to me. I really don't know how to feel about it in PvP environments, however.

    Do you imply there is a condi build for Weaver which allows it to do at least 30k DPS in PvE (all buffs + food + 25 stacks of vulnerability on test golem)? Could you provide a link to it? As tbh it seems rather hard to believe.

    https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/elementalist/weaver/condition/

    Thanks, will try it out.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    This line of thought in GW2 doesn't really make sense, because the classes aren't based on filling roles, they are more conceptual.

    I'm not sure your perception is correct either. I have yet to see an Ele not being desirable in PVE because it doesn't have a 'role'. In fact, Ele is one of the strongest offensive boon share any team can get, as well as doing it's own crapton of DPS. That's THE most desirable role a class can fill in PVE.

    On the competitive side, the idea that a role is going to correct some deficiency Ele has is not necessarily true. There is no guarantee that the role you get will fix the problems Ele has. Besides, the whole concept of the class is based on hard-forcing players into switchable streams. The 'role' you pick is based on the element you choose.

    We aren't talking about a few small buffs here ... giving ele a role is a class re-defining event. It seems to me you just aren't sure what you are asking for or why you want it. You have to understand that a role doesn't fix performance issues or even desirability.

    I want a solid reason to pick Ele over the other classes I have. Because Ele's the one I've put the most time and gold into developing, yet it's not performing half as well as any of the other classes I have, both in PvP or WvW. And since we're on the topic of PvE, maybe we can address the abysmal CC Ele has compared to other classes.

    If I had to ask for just one thing, I'd ask for wash the pain away's healing power to be put back to the strength it had on HoT's release. There's no need for it to stay nerfed anymore, Firebrand exists.

    Well, that's not a role, that's for sure. No other classes need roles to be solid reasons to picked over others, ESPECIALLY in PvP/WvW.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    This line of thought in GW2 doesn't really make sense, because the classes aren't based on filling roles, they are more conceptual.

    I'm not sure your perception is correct either. I have yet to see an Ele not being desirable in PVE because it doesn't have a 'role'. In fact, Ele is one of the strongest offensive boon share any team can get, as well as doing it's own crapton of DPS. That's THE most desirable role a class can fill in PVE.

    On the competitive side, the idea that a role is going to correct some deficiency Ele has is not necessarily true. There is no guarantee that the role you get will fix the problems Ele has. Besides, the whole concept of the class is based on hard-forcing players into switchable streams. The 'role' you pick is based on the element you choose.

    We aren't talking about a few small buffs here ... giving ele a role is a class re-defining event. It seems to me you just aren't sure what you are asking for or why you want it. You have to understand that a role doesn't fix performance issues or even desirability.

    I want a solid reason to pick Ele over the other classes I have. Because Ele's the one I've put the most time and gold into developing, yet it's not performing half as well as any of the other classes I have, both in PvP or WvW. And since we're on the topic of PvE, maybe we can address the abysmal CC Ele has compared to other classes.

    If I had to ask for just one thing, I'd ask for wash the pain away's healing power to be put back to the strength it had on HoT's release. There's no need for it to stay nerfed anymore, Firebrand exists.

    Well, that's not a role, that's for sure. No other classes need roles to be solid reasons to picked over others, ESPECIALLY in PvP/WvW.

    Healer.

  • @MoriMoriMori.5349 said:
    Thanks, will try it out.

    Keep in mind it still adds a lot of toughness by attuning to Earth (Earth's Stone Flesh + Weaver's Elemental Polyphony = 270 toughness).

    Prior to the patch, Weave Self (which is essential for the 20% condition damage) added even more toughness as a bonus (about 320 toughness), leaving you with a whopping 1590 toughness that the Chronotank has to cover on Toughness-aggro'd bosses.

    The recent patch changed the 320 toughness from Weave Self to -20% Incoming Damage instead, making this build somewhat more of a viable choice, but probably should still be discussed with low-toughness Chrono's.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    EDIT: Darn it, this was the wrong thread.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    This line of thought in GW2 doesn't really make sense, because the classes aren't based on filling roles, they are more conceptual.

    I'm not sure your perception is correct either. I have yet to see an Ele not being desirable in PVE because it doesn't have a 'role'. In fact, Ele is one of the strongest offensive boon share any team can get, as well as doing it's own crapton of DPS. That's THE most desirable role a class can fill in PVE.

    On the competitive side, the idea that a role is going to correct some deficiency Ele has is not necessarily true. There is no guarantee that the role you get will fix the problems Ele has. Besides, the whole concept of the class is based on hard-forcing players into switchable streams. The 'role' you pick is based on the element you choose.

    We aren't talking about a few small buffs here ... giving ele a role is a class re-defining event. It seems to me you just aren't sure what you are asking for or why you want it. You have to understand that a role doesn't fix performance issues or even desirability.

    I want a solid reason to pick Ele over the other classes I have. Because Ele's the one I've put the most time and gold into developing, yet it's not performing half as well as any of the other classes I have, both in PvP or WvW. And since we're on the topic of PvE, maybe we can address the abysmal CC Ele has compared to other classes.

    If I had to ask for just one thing, I'd ask for wash the pain away's healing power to be put back to the strength it had on HoT's release. There's no need for it to stay nerfed anymore, Firebrand exists.

    Well, that's not a role, that's for sure. No other classes need roles to be solid reasons to picked over others, ESPECIALLY in PvP/WvW.

    Healer.

    I don't get your response to me ... what you are asking for in the previous post is simply a buff or give Ele some exceptional ability (which won't fix your desirability as a class BTW) ... That's not a role. Besides, I would question the idea that Ele isn't already filling the role for being a good healer, or that being a good healer is what will 'differentiate' Ele as a class to make Ele desirable in PVP/WvW. Those ideas just don't mesh with how the game or the class works. The role that you have as an Ele is conceptual, because it's linked to how the class is designed ... the idea your an Ele with 4 unique elements to swap around ... not the idea that you are a 'healer' or a 'DPS' ... or whatever. GW2 is not like other MMO's where you get handed a label and told that's what your class does. Anet avoided that intentionally in this game. It's going to be a massively hard sell to get Anet to think they have to throw that idea out the window 6+ years later because Ele just doesn't bring it for you.

    I think you have meshed two very different ideas: being desirable as a class (to play or to team with) is not necessarily linked to a 'role' for the class. Ele's have ALWAYS been desirable team mates; this is not a problem that needs to be fixed. It's also true that no matter what the problem you are trying to solve, giving Ele a 'role' isn't a solution that is inline with the game design either.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh they have flashy animations and particle effects, long cast time and poor stab uptime that cry "pls interrupt me". So they're good at baiting enemies cc and eat their burst.

  • I'll agree with the statement of them trying to make ele the jack of all trades. The problem with this is you can still only build for one trade, thus ele is the jack of one trade and still the master of none.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2019

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Ele does have a purpose though. It exists to lure new players to the game with cool/flashy animations and particle effects. :p

    even the animations got nerfed: auras and fire auto cause they were to distracting. meanwhile we got holo, rev, fb, scourge, mirage ...

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Let us bot kid ourselves. Elementalist was designed to be a classic sorcerer/mage in a game where the classic sorcerer/mage is redundant. With all the nerfs to ele and buffs/elites to other professions ele is now a class that needs more buttons to do what others easily achieve.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Elementalist has a purpose, and it has always had a purpose. From 2012 until 2015, it was the primary DPS in PvE and one of those generic roamer meme builds in PvP. The only reason that these "roles" have fallen out of favor is because GW2 is currently drowning in bloat and powercreep. It goes to show how this game has serious fundamental problems when the launch PvE metagame was, for three years, entirely comprised of 3 classes.

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