this is the most imbalanced patch by far that we've had since PoF release

Everyone crying about condi mirage when it was already the least played class in high elo https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63990/mesmer-is-trash-and-it-needs-buffs#latest

In this current season there are two revenants in top 10 and 0 mirages,in top 50 there are five + revenants and one single mirage player (in fact, the 2nd highest mirage is all over #70 so you have only 1 player making it in top 70 as a mirage out of what is it? Millions of active gw2 players?)

How does anet justify nerfing a class that has been underperforming for months even further while a class like revenant that's broken beyond reason that's dominating the game and that does dmg beyond any reason in pvp with the best ganking tools in the game is still allowed to be in here?

I'm not even here to post my opinion but merely to state facts and the facts are that CONDI MIRAGE remains the least played class on high elo along with elementalist (sometimes less played, sometimes more played). You can literally play any other mesmer spec (power or core or chrono or whatever) and you'll be better off than playing condi mirage because the class was completely nuked out of orbit due to what? Peer pressure and forum propaganda? REALLY? It's also the least played class for AT finalists (except ele, again) for the last half year

so how are patch notes made? is it based on forum whining ? because if someone was actually checking the state of the game we would have the complete opposite patch

Yes, but how many scrappers place in high elo? That's what matters now.

Honestly, it's really amazing how hard you try to defend unbalanced (powercreeped into oblivion) class.

The facts are:

• HoT Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.
• PoF Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.

What you call "nuked out of orbit", I call poking the hand "You were a very, very, very bad boi, don't do this stuff again!".Rank currently means nothing, you can be paired very randomly and thanks to powercreep that still is very present since HoT release, build matters a lot more than the actual skill of a player.They nerfed mesmer, good. Was that enough? No.Just because other classes are overperforming, doesn't mean your class should aswell.IMO, everything need nerfs, Mirage nerfs were at most grain of sand in the middle of sandstorm of what needs to be done to the class itself (every other class need nerfs here and there aswell, no excuses).

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Honestly, it's really amazing how hard you try to defend unbalanced (powercreeped into oblivion) class.

The facts are:

• HoT Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.
• PoF Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.

What you call "nuked out of orbit", I call poking the hand "You were a very, very, very bad boi, don't do this stuff again!".Rank currently means nothing, you can be paired very randomly and thanks to powercreep that still is very present since HoT release, build matters a lot more than the actual skill of a player.They nerfed mesmer, good. Was that enough? No.Just because other classes are overperforming, doesn't mean your class should aswell.IMO, everything need nerfs, Mirage nerfs were at most grain of sand in the middle of sandstorm of what needs to be done to the class itself (every other class need nerfs here and there aswell, no excuses).

facts are

Not a single mirage played in the monthly AT top 8

xd

mirage wasn't good even on the last patch yet it got nerfed again, you talk about facts but you ignore the facts that don't fit your narrative, how does that even work?

"least played in high rating" LMAO. Ok

Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

@Snellibee.2761 said:Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

Condi mirage was realy strong but now it's just not worth playing.

Condi mirage right now is in an okay spot in my opinion and I don't have much problems dealing with it.Firebrand/scourge is still the best duo for every comp and present in the meta from PoF release till now, maybe that's something to look about because I'm already tired of how brainless it is.Revenant is dominating because it lost every high skill ceiling component to play it effectively, now that condis are almost non-existent, even a monkey with no hands can do good as revenant and climb ranks, it's not exactly overtuned, but it's crazy easy and noob friendly to do good with it in its current state and statistics shows it.

@"incisorr.9502" said:Everyone crying about condi mirage when it was already the least played class in high elo https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63990/mesmer-is-trash-and-it-needs-buffs#latest

In this current season there are two revenants in top 10 and 0 mirages,in top 50 there are five + revenants and one single mirage player (in fact, the 2nd highest mirage is all over #70 so you have only 1 player making it in top 70 as a mirage out of what is it? Millions of active gw2 players?)

How does anet justify nerfing a class that has been underperforming for months even further while a class like revenant that's broken beyond reason that's dominating the game and that does dmg beyond any reason in pvp with the best ganking tools in the game is still allowed to be in here?

I'm not even here to post my opinion but merely to state facts and the facts are that CONDI MIRAGE remains the least played class on high elo along with elementalist (sometimes less played, sometimes more played). You can literally play any other mesmer spec (power or core or chrono or whatever) and you'll be better off than playing condi mirage because the class was completely nuked out of orbit due to what? Peer pressure and forum propaganda? REALLY? It's also the least played class for AT finalists (except ele, again) for the last half year

so how are patch notes made? is it based on forum whining ? because if someone was actually checking the state of the game we would have the complete opposite patch

Compare whole professions to an individual spec, and yeah, there might be a difference in numbers.

Logic is hard for snowflakes.

may i add this;

'Guild Wars 2: Is ArenaNet a Victim of Misplaced Devotion?'

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/guild-wars-2-is-arenanet-a-victim-of-misplaced-devotion-1000013509

@incisorr.9502 said:so how are patch notes made? is it based on forum whining ? because if someone was actually checking the state of the game we would have the complete opposite patchIf someone was actually checking the state of the game you'd be dying of Renegade right now.

February monthly AT finals, eu+na: 2 revs, 5 mesmers.

@incisorr.9502 said:

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Honestly, it's really amazing how hard you try to defend unbalanced (powercreeped into oblivion) class.

The facts are:

• HoT Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.
• PoF Powercreep still not touched in a proper manner.

What you call "nuked out of orbit", I call

poking the hand

"You were a very, very, very bad boi, don't do this stuff again!".Rank currently means nothing, you can be paired very randomly and thanks to powercreep that still is very present since HoT release, build matters a lot more than the actual skill of a player.They nerfed mesmer, good. Was that enough? No.Just because other classes are overperforming, doesn't mean your class should aswell.IMO, everything need nerfs, Mirage nerfs were at most grain of sand in the middle of sandstorm of what needs to be done to the class itself (every other class need nerfs here and there aswell, no excuses).

I generally agree with your posts, but you need to change the argument of " this isn't played at top10 so it is bad ". This makes sense in an active game that was released a few months ago, but it doesn't in a game that is 7 years old and that has in addition a debatable matchmaking system.

Rank lately doesn't mean much because :

• Top 100 players remain the same thanks to placements
• Below players cannot be arsed to climb because of usual problems that are argued in other threads
• the same 3-4 top teams still faceroll 500-10 the rest of players in AT's ( including plat 2 pug teams )

So yes, the question is that the game should not be balanced around gold level, but still, it should not be balanced according to top players since rank doesn't mean anything.

Mesmer was fairly well represented in mAT and is also fairly well represented in TOP 250. You speaking about specific build of mesmer. You might as well compare Mirage to Renegade or Berserker or any other not played build - condi thief, condi ranger, condi warrior etc.

Every class got a meta build which will be most played simply cause it's the "best" build. Just because mesmer got "better" built than Mirage, it doesn't mean Mirage is weak. Mirage is still broken build.

Here is a fact.

The less Mesmer play PvP the healthier is the Gamemode

@everyman.4375 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

It def is worth playing, everyone that used to play condi mirage was just relying on it being so cheesy and easy that they're all upset that they actually need to do something now.

the patch made warrior power berserker annoyingly strong

-the cooldown reduction on berserker from 15 seconds to 9 seconds-better synergy between berserker traits and core warrior traits are out of the roof-berserker finally being able to be a respectable power-class instead of a condi-only

and then my cat woke me up so the dream ended

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Here is a fact.

The less Mesmer play PvP the healthier is the Gamemode

When people say things like this and it is upvoted, it legitmizes the idea that complaints about mesmer are based on disliking the class as opposed to being real issues.

@Snellibee.2761 said:Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

Last paragraph isn't really true, there are complaints about rev on higher level. It is certainly very very strong right now. On forums/reddit the median rank is probably gold so different kinds of complaints come to light.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Snellibee.2761" said:Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

All high elo players I've talked to and streamers like Sindrener have never said that Rev is broken in any way. In fact they mention how hard it is to play and to disengage from fights you can't win and how it relies so hard on support to really shine.

Theres no doubt that Revenant is strong in the right hands, but calling it broken is absolutely absurd. There is no way you should lose to a Revenant 1v1 unless you're another dps spec like Reaper. Holosmith has an edge over Revenant, Mirage has an edge over Revenant, Warrior has an edge over Revenant, Thief has an edge over Revenant, Soulbeast has an edge over Revenant. Weaver is a trash spec but anything has an edge over a Weaver. The only classes that can die 1v1 against a Revenant without being seriously outplayed are Reaper, Core Guardian, Sick'em Ranger because all these classes are DPS' themself.

Besides, Holosmith and Warrior can nearly to as much damage as Revenants can and they're considered duelers. I sometimes play Spellbreaker and my Arcing Slice regulary hits for 8-9k. Basically all my attacks do high damage. And we all know how much damage Holosmiths can do with the sustain they have. Does that seem right?

Revenant rewards people for timing. If you can't time your dodges, your block and Infused Light, you're dead. If you can't time your bursts (wich mainly exist on sword OH) you'll most likely not win the fight because you don't have the sustain to keep that fight up long enough to burst again. Revenant is one of the few classes that don't give you a "I fucked up but it doesn't matter" button to save your life when you made a mistake. It also doesn't give you a passive to save your life when you weren't paying attention and an enemy tried to burst you and take advantage of it. Let's not forget that whilst needing to pay attention to your endurance and cooldowns, you also need to pay attention to energy usage. it's just another mechanic they indroduced to Revenant that requires you to pay more attention than any other class.

So many classes have such a simple design and are so forgiving to play. Revenant isn't one of those and requires constant attention and concentration.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Here is a fact.

The less Mesmer play PvP the healthier is the Gamemode

That always been the case and noone is denying that.Mesmer is annoying/unfun to fight against by design, so ofc people want to see it gone.

And obviously people will jump an any train that ends with mesmer being nerfed.

Nerfed mesmer = Less mesmers.

@Snellibee.2761 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Snellibee.2761 said:Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

To be clear, not suggesting there has been a universal sentiment of "rev is the most op class in the game", rather just that there have been complaints about it (like most/all meta classes) and that "you are the only one complaining about rev" is inaccurate. As an example, https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/68775/mirage-soulbeast-herald-deadeye/p1.

Theres no doubt that Revenant is strong in the right hands, but calling it broken is absolutely absurd.Calling core ele broken (if broken = too strong, in this context) might be in the realm of absurdity; not rev (specifically herald).There is no way you should lose to a Revenant 1v1 unless you're another dps spec like Reaper. Holosmith has an edge over Revenant, Mirage has an edge over Revenant, Warrior has an edge over Revenant, Thief has an edge over Revenant, Soulbeast has an edge over Revenant. Weaver is a trash spec but anything has an edge over a Weaver. The only classes that can die 1v1 against a Revenant without being seriously outplayed are Reaper, Core Guardian, Sick'em Ranger because all these classes are DPS' themself.Ok, not the role of rev.

Besides, Holosmith and Warrior can nearly to as much damage as Revenants can and they're considered duelers. I sometimes play Spellbreaker and my Arcing Slice regulary hits for 8-9k. Basically all my attacks do high damage. And we all know how much damage Holosmiths can do with the sustain they have. Does that seem right?It can be considered a problem that builds with "damage amulets" (such as demolisher amulet) can have so much sustain as to be considered bunkers, point holders, bruisers, while also doing a lot of damage.

Revenant rewards people for timing. If you can't time your dodges, your block and Infused Light, you're dead. If you can't time your bursts (wich mainly exist on sword OH) you'll most likely not win the fight because you don't have the sustain to keep that fight up long enough to burst again. Revenant is one of the few classes that don't give you a "I kitten up but it doesn't matter" button to save your life when you made a mistake. It also doesn't give you a passive to save your life when you weren't paying attention and an enemy tried to burst you and take advantage of it. Let's not forget that whilst needing to pay attention to your endurance and cooldowns, you also need to pay attention to energy usage. it's just another mechanic they indroduced to Revenant that requires you to pay more attention than any other class.

So many classes have such a simple design and are so forgiving to play. Revenant isn't one of those and requires constant attention and concentration.That's why I mean to point out that while complaints about rev are fairly prevalent at higher levels, it seems to be less common among the average player (gold rating) or lower.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Here is a fact.

The less Mesmer play PvP the healthier is the Gamemode

Just saying that if you want Mesmer nerfed, I think outright stating "I don't like the class" is probably a bad way to go about it.

I also think that having Mesmer be healthy in PvP is a difficult task, as is usually the case with summoner classes (look at turret engi, spirit ranger, etc), and this isn't exclusive to guild wars. This is why I preferred Mesmer around 2014 over other variants (like clone death Mes, condition Mes, phantasm Mes, bunker Chrono). At this point the simplest solution would likely be to make the next elite specialization "illusion-less".

@Quadox.7834 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Here is a fact.

The less Mesmer play PvP the healthier is the Gamemode

Current spike and consi mesmer builds are mostly bs due to the massive amounts of ways to avoid damage while dealing mass amounts even still. Spike mesmer isn't too bad since the tell is going invisible. But the blind random condition stacking gets old when they can never be hit but still do damage.

I'd love to see the next mesmer spec have a big change like scourge did with necro and shroud. Get rid of illusions and clones for something different. Gw1 mesmers were funnn.