Meet the Renegade Remade! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Meet the Renegade Remade!

DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 24, 2019 in Revenant

Hey everyone!

That's the small project I've been working on for some time now. My goal was to make Renegade more special as en E-Spec. I wanted the whole trait system to be more interactive. I swapped utilities with Summons so Kalla's warband is usable on every core legend. And lastly, I wanted Renegade to truly depict Kalla Scorchrazor - with a Greatsword.
I remade Renegade's promotional artwork to show it using greatsword. I also remade the existing shortbow skill icons to fit with the new weapon.


IMPORTANT NOTE: This is a fan project and all artworks used are made by ANet, I just remade them to fit in the project.

So, let's begin and I hope you'll enjoy it!

The legendary charr revolutionary, Kalla Scorchrazor, lends the power of her warband to revenants who summon her from the Mists. Renegades fight with a greatsword, conjuring blades through Mist portals to blindside their enemies.

Renegade is an elite specialization for the revenant that unlocks the Legendary Renegade Stance. It also allows the revenant to use a greatsword.

Author's note

Spirits Mechanic

This one was hard. I know that GW2 and AI don't get along and but I really wanted to create a feeling of having a warband. Now, you can basically summon Kalla's warband to aid you in battle. The Spirit mechanic has been moved to Class Utility Bar, so you are now able to summon the spirits without a legend restriction. I even thought that it would be cool if summons changed with legends but this would be insane; imagine 4 Stone Dwarves running around you, 4 Demons, 4 Shiro Ken or 4 Centaurs. This would be something.
But I wanted to keep the charr theme that Renegade gives us.
Spirits now use a double-cast abilities. Their Energy cost is set to 10 (read Traits), and can be reactivated for additional effects. They disappear after you use their abilities.
I'm not sure about the time Spirits can stay with Renegade, but I thought that 10-15 seconds would be enough to make use of new Kalla's Favor mechanic.

Ranged Greatsword!

It was fun remaking ability icons and the remaking shortbow skills to work as greatsword. And yes, Greatsword is now a ranged weapon with melee capabilites.
Greatsword is now a hybrid weapon that gives you some mobility. The conditions are nearly the same, except additional Weakness. I wanted to keep the feel of Shortbow for players who enjoy using it.
I really wanted Greatsword to feel special, so you can play both Condition Builds, Power Builds or build Hybrid and feel just fine. You can now summon blades from the mists to rend through your foes. This isn't a Mesmer GS. I've been thinking if 20% Physical Projectile on autoattack would be nice, and indeed, it would. I also thought of something like Guardian's Axe but on a much larger scale. This is just a loose idea, so you know - it can be either shooting blades from portals or slashing through the Mists.

Utilities

I swapped the Utility skills with Summons. They feel more natural to be part of the Kalla's kit rather than the whole profession mechanic. They are very similar to what they were before, but are now a bit more interactive with Kalla's Favor. You want to build up the most stacks you can, and then use them for the best results.

  • Citadel Bombardment was change to work more reliably.
  • Heroic Command is now a lot more interactive. You can consume Kalla's Favor in order to get the best effects. Stacks disappear once you consume them.
  • Orders from Above - I wanted this one to feel special for a stunbreak. You now roar and inspire allies around you.
  • Elite, Mist Portal. So, now you are able to mimic your abilities. This can be useful for both Condi and Power. You now open the portal the Mists and it mimic your abilites towards target you are facing. This is an upkeep. I decided to give it just for Kalla as it could be a bit too powerful if it was accessible on every legend. Kalla Scorchrazor is still a utility legend that provides you with buffs and empowers your allies. The portal just helps you with it.

Kalla's Fervor is now a usable resource for Renegade. You can consume it for additional or to empower the Elite abilities or Core Legends.
I will explain the usage for Core Legends later in the post.





List of Renegade Equipment

  • Superior Rune of Renegade
  • Renegade's Casque
  • The Rebellion
  • Renegade's Greatsword

Kalla's Favor and Additional info

Kalla's Favor is now a usable resource. You can use it to either empower your allies while invoking Kalla Scorchrazor or enhance the effects of your Elite Abilities of Core Legends. This is a brief explenation on how it works:


Rite of the Great Dwarf will now be enhanced and will grant X amount of barrier to you and your allies for every stack of Kalla's Favor consumed.
Embrace Darkness will now be enhanced and will increase All Stats bonus by 2% (max 10%) for every stack of Kalla's Favor consumed.
Jade Winds will now be enhanced and will grant you Unblockable Buff (max 5 stacks) for every stack of Kalla's Favor consumed.
Energy Expulsion will now be enhanced and will grant you Alacrity (max 5 s) for every stack of Kalla's Favor consumed.


When invoking Kalla Scorchrazor her image will appear above the player character


Additional Notes

So, my goal was to make Renegade a bit more mobile in its playstyle. I wanted to keep some of the traits and abilities as I like them and I thought that they can still work i trated properly. Of course I am by no means a game designer, but I really like to think of other version, and stuff like "what if...?".


Feel free to comment what you think. I'd love some creative feedback. I know this isn't perfect but I really wanted to try my best when taking into account everything I liked about Renegade but still making it a breath of fresh air for everyone.

I hope you enjoyed!

Comments

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    I always wonder why we get a shortbow when renegade icon still looks like a greatsword .....
    also nice to read ... was thinking on HELA from Avengers when reading the Infos about renegade

  • WraithOfStealth.1624WraithOfStealth.1624 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    Appreciate the effort spent rearranging the artwork, nice.

    Greatsword
    The weapon skills look fine, since they're mostly a copy of current SB. The biggest issue with SB is #3 being trash for competitive, so i like the evade. #4 Being able to be cast without LoS is nice too, same if #2 actually hits as opposed to currently. Regarding the style, i'm on-board with the idea of greatsword. I'd prefer if it was animated the way Balthazar uses it, (Floating around next to the player etc.) if that is at all doable for the devs. (Probably not) Having it be an animation mix of current SB, mesmer GS and firebrand axe is also neat imo.

    Kalla's Fervor
    Kalla's Fervor is pretty boring at the moment, true. I'm not that excited about this version either however. Having it stack by spending energy is alright, but the fact that you have to trait for it to be consumable outside of Kalla is odd imo. I imagine it still functions as a ferocity/condi damage increase?

    Profession Mechanic & Utilities
    The utilities and F#'s are swapped i see. If i understand correctly the new F#'s are basically summons that have a consume skill? Would need some info about what they do outside of the consume skill. I like the idea of them changing based on which legend you're channelling, but will agree that it takes away from the warband theme if they did.

    Regarding the new utilities, they look a bit bland to me. Basically copies of the old F#'s with the added consume Kalla's Fervor stacks mechanic. Personally i wouldn't use the Kalla Legend itself in this form in WvW. For solo/small scale competitive play the only interesting ability is the portal elite basically. Thematically I would replace one of the F# summons with Breakrazor (balance accordingly, could limit it to a cleanse/heal), to keep the utilities as a uniform skill type. Not that revenant has skill types outside of upkeep, but it looks a bit better imo. (Assuming breakrazor is still basically a well)

    Traits
    Most look reasonable, i think the prot on dodge is a bit too much. Thematically i wouldn't put that on renegade. I would replace Vindication and Lasting Legacy, they're both not very interesting imo. KF resource shouldn't require a trait to be usable outside kalla i think. I'd also probably keep the "gain vigor when fury is applied to you" effect on Brutal Momentum.

    All of that said, i mostly look for things i can use in WvW. Either in small scale or 1v1. I can imagine people who play support will like most of this.

    Was fun to read, thanks. :-)

    Obèlíx [GAUL] - Gandara(EU).
    Condi Ventari Build

  • Maddog.3716Maddog.3716 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2019

    Delightfully!

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    I always wonder why we get a shortbow when renegade icon still looks like a greatsword .....
    also nice to read ... was thinking on HELA from Avengers when reading the Infos about renegade

    Well, it seemed weird for me too, so I decided to give it a shot with the GS. I think it could work pretty neat.
    Thanks a lot!

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @WraithOfStealth.1624 said:
    Appreciate the effort spent rearranging the artwork, nice.

    Greatsword
    The weapon skills look fine, since they're mostly a copy of current SB. The biggest issue with SB is #3 being trash for competitive, so i like the evade. #4 Being able to be cast without LoS is nice too, same if #2 actually hits as opposed to currently. Regarding the style, i'm on-board with the idea of greatsword. I'd prefer if it was animated the way Balthazar uses it, (Floating around next to the player etc.) if that is at all doable for the devs. (Probably not) Having it be an animation mix of current SB, mesmer GS and firebrand axe is also neat imo.

    Kalla's Fervor
    Kalla's Fervor is pretty boring at the moment, true. I'm not that excited about this version either however. Having it stack by spending energy is alright, but the fact that you have to trait for it to be consumable outside of Kalla is odd imo. I imagine it still functions as a ferocity/condi damage increase?

    Profession Mechanic & Utilities
    The utilities and F#'s are swapped i see. If i understand correctly the new F#'s are basically summons that have a consume skill? Would need some info about what they do outside of the consume skill. I like the idea of them changing based on which legend you're channelling, but will agree that it takes away from the warband theme if they did.

    Regarding the new utilities, they look a bit bland to me. Basically copies of the old F#'s with the added consume Kalla's Fervor stacks mechanic. Personally i wouldn't use the Kalla Legend itself in this form in WvW. For solo/small scale competitive play the only interesting ability is the portal elite basically. Thematically I would replace one of the F# summons with Breakrazor (balance accordingly, could limit it to a cleanse/heal), to keep the utilities as a uniform skill type. Not that revenant has skill types outside of upkeep, but it looks a bit better imo. (Assuming breakrazor is still basically a well)

    Traits
    Most look reasonable, i think the prot on dodge is a bit too much. Thematically i wouldn't put that on renegade. I would replace Vindication and Lasting Legacy, they're both not very interesting imo. KF resource shouldn't require a trait to be usable outside kalla i think. I'd also probably keep the "gain vigor when fury is applied to you" effect on Brutal Momentum.

    All of that said, i mostly look for things i can use in WvW. Either in small scale or 1v1. I can imagine people who play support will like most of this.

    Was fun to read, thanks. :-)

    Thanks!

    Greatsword - I wanted this one to feel like it's a mix of a bow and sword. Current SB skills are pretty enjoyable, but the lack of any mobile capabilities just kills the weapon in competitive modes. The evade on #3 was inspired by Warrior's Rifle #4. I think it was a simple addition to the weapon and it's nice to have it (especially in current time of GW2). I'd love it to work like Balthazar's GS, this would be a dream come true. I tried to make it look a bit like that on the artwork.

    Kalla's Fervor was a hard one to think of becauseI wanted it to stay as it's some sort of (not really) a profession mechanic. This could make it slightly more engaging to play around but I get it would still be kinda boring. I didn't want to allow the consume on elite by default because I thought this could be a straight powercreep. As for the passive effects I leave an open field here since I don't know how the numbers would work exactly.

    Spirits - These are indeed summons with a consume skill. Outside of consume they could A) Work like Mesmer's cloes (with cleaner visuals) or B) Be more stationary like Ritualist's spirits.

    Utilities - I decided to keep these because I didn't like creaing an entirely new set of skills, so I went with a little upgrade. Consuming Kalla's Fervor would empower the utilities which can be further enhanced by Elite Portal - that's why you would want to take Kalla. You'd have lot greater control over the battle field if you could open a portal and use skills directly from it. IMO Kalla should stay as a supportive legend so the F skills just got cleaner.

    Traits - The protection was about the Iron Legion and I added it to compensate for the loss of Protection on Summon. True, there are some skills that would better if they haven't existed at all but I know that there are people who like Renegade as it is, so I decided to keep these. Citadel Bombardment would be a whole lot reliable if it was something closer to a machine gun from behind of player.

    This rework aims to close the gap between competitive and PvE usage of Renegade (as much as possible) and make it more mobile. It's not perfect of course, but I'm happy to hear some nice critiqe!

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting idea for spirits. I would like spirits themed after the legend.

    But no go on Greatsword being ranged. I want two hander melee dps weapon. Unless a new 2 hander weapon is introduced, greatsword is our last chance at a 2hander melee weapon for actually dpsing.
    Also Kalla legend abilities seem very uninteresting and boring. I would like less passive stat boon effects on elite specs and more active attacks and abilities.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you listen carefully you can hear a legend screaming into a pillow beyond the mist portal that they've wanted a rework. I am getting used to the current Renegade, but I would still prefer a rework.

  • Wiler.9873Wiler.9873 Member ✭✭

    uuuh... I would love a greatsword on my rev

  • Wow that's very cool OP, that's a lot of effort you put in there. I don't know your employment situation but that kind of effort is portfolio worthy.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @nosleepdemon.1368 said:
    Wow that's very cool OP, that's a lot of effort you put in there. I don't know your employment situation but that kind of effort is portfolio worthy.

    Thanks a lot for the kind words :)
    I mostly draw stuff, but I decided to use the current one as I thought it's just great. Anyway, it would be a dream come true to work as someone in charge of creatives with classes.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    Interesting idea for spirits. I would like spirits themed after the legend.

    But no go on Greatsword being ranged. I want two hander melee dps weapon. Unless a new 2 hander weapon is introduced, greatsword is our last chance at a 2hander melee weapon for actually dpsing.
    Also Kalla legend abilities seem very uninteresting and boring. I would like less passive stat boon effects on elite specs and more active attacks and abilities.

    Well, I wanted to keep everything people might like about the actual Renegade - for some it might be ranged combat, for some F abilities or spirits. I just decided to play around what we have and fuse into one thing. Although I'm not a fan of GS, I think it should be a whole lot different from Ranger, Reaper, Warrior and Guardian, and Mesmer. But you know, it's just an opinion.

  • Maddog.3716Maddog.3716 Member ✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    Imho for a complete ideal can be used point of upkeep for Spirits Mechanic. Point of upkeep is an interesting mechanics, it is a pity it is used only in Herald.

  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    I always wonder why we get a shortbow when renegade icon still looks like a greatsword .....

    I always thought if I stretched my imagination, it looked a little like the Guerrilla Arc bow when viewed from the front, though stylized and angled. Although I've mostly seen it as an arrow tip piercing through something, perhaps a portal through the mists. If it were a Greatsword, that'd be a very weird looking short one with a very strange hilt. As a melee weapon I think it looks more like a mace with a weird hilt. I do think Kalla was not supposed to be Kalla initially though, and it were actually Pyre Fierceshot that the Elite were designed around. That were a character we knew from GW. I think Kalla is Kalla for.. reasons, and were shoehorned in later in the development process after it were too late to redesign everything to fit a new weapon type. Don't get me wrong, I think Kalla is an absolutely awesome character in the lore, she's a strong lead character with major implications on the history within the Charr factions, but she clearly seems to have been more blade focused than her grandfather. I think it would have been better to add her as a later Elite with a blade weapon and them sticking with Pyre than renaming the legend and skills. Even the Manifest of Kalla Scorchrazor seems to push towards the narrative of a blade, although it's based on a common saying, as well as her statue, while retroactively having been fitted with a bow, has also always depicted her with a blade clutched between her hands.

    Still, I'm not sure why people are to this day seemingly so obsessed with Greatsword for Renegade, it's not like it will happen. I think the Shortbow needs work, it's a bit clunky, but overall I am happy with it. I were from the start. It even gave me a reason to go after and craft Chuka and Champawat. And it's not like Kalla doesn't fit the weapon at all. She was the grandcub of Pyre, I'm sure he passed on the skills of marksmanship to her. Fun enough fan mock-up though, Don. Love the art edit! That said, I'd rather have Greatsword on a future Elite. Maybe they can give us Pyre with a Greatsword instead and retroactively fit a blade on to his statue. With some tweaks, I think the Shortbow can be made even more reliable and fun than I am already having with it. That you no longer interrupt Spiritcrush if you run through it after casting helps a ton. I literally run a Shortbow build right now with permanent Superspeed in combat to kite with. It's honestly pretty fun.

    Now if only the Renegade/Revenant dev(s) would actually fix Bloodbane Path not hitting all its arrows if the target is moving, that'd be helpful. And the spirits need some love, especially for World vs. World where they are borderline useless outside of popping Necromancer marks. I can somewhat find a use for them by plopping them down on the sidelines, but it's limited use over running an entirely different legend. The no valid path to target nonsense needs to go. It's long overdue that this gets fixed. They also die way too easily, they can be CC'd. It's just frustrating to use the spirits outside of dueling others as you roam around. It's not like these things are moving. They are killable, CC'able, fields. It's pretty stupid in design. Perhaps make them take vastly reduced damage as a means to allow them to actually function slightly better in large scale combat. Give them a relatively weak breakbar to withstand the first brunt of the massive amounts of CC in large scale combat? (Scale it based on mode?) I also think each of them should be a combo field to give them some added use and fun interactions. I love that I can fire my arrows across.. wait a minute, the Combo Field: Fire on Soulcleave's Summit is no longer there even though the tooltip says it is.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    I always wonder why we get a shortbow when renegade icon still looks like a greatsword .....

    I always thought if I stretched my imagination, it looked a little like the Guerrilla Arc bow when viewed from the front, though stylized and angled. Although I've mostly seen it as an arrow tip piercing through something, perhaps a portal through the mists. If it were a Greatsword, that'd be a very weird looking short one with a very strange hilt. As a melee weapon I think it looks more like a mace with a weird hilt. I do think Kalla was not supposed to be Kalla initially though, and it were actually Pyre Fierceshot that the Elite were designed around. That were a character we knew from GW. I think Kalla is Kalla for.. reasons, and were shoehorned in later in the development process after it were too late to redesign everything to fit a new weapon type. Don't get me wrong, I think Kalla is an absolutely awesome character in the lore, she's a strong lead character with major implications on the history within the Charr factions, but she clearly seems to have been more blade focused than her grandfather. I think it would have been better to add her as a later Elite with a blade weapon and them sticking with Pyre than renaming the legend and skills. Even the Manifest of Kalla Scorchrazor seems to push towards the narrative of a blade, although it's based on a common saying, as well as her statue, while retroactively having been fitted with a bow, has also always depicted her with a blade clutched between her hands.

    Still, I'm not sure why people are to this day seemingly so obsessed with Greatsword for Renegade, it's not like it will happen. I think the Shortbow needs work, it's a bit clunky, but overall I am happy with it. I were from the start. It even gave me a reason to go after and craft Chuka and Champawat. And it's not like Kalla doesn't fit the weapon at all. She was the grandcub of Pyre, I'm sure he passed on the skills of marksmanship to her. Fun enough fan mock-up though, Don. That said, I'd rather have Greatsword on a future Elite. Maybe they can give us Pyre with a Greatsword instead and retroactively fit a blade on to his statue. With some tweaks, I think the Shortbow can be made even more reliable and fun than I am already having with it. That you no longer interrupt Spiritcrush if you run through it after casting helps a ton. I literally run a Shortbow build right now with permanent Superspeed in combat to kite with. It's honestly pretty fun.

    Now if only the Renegade/Revenant dev(s) would actually fix Bloodbane Path not hitting all its arrows if the target is moving, that'd be helpful. And the spirits need some love, especially for World vs. World where they are borderline useless outside of popping Necromancer marks. The no valid path to target nonsense needs to go. It's long overdue that this gets fixed. They also die way too easily, they can be CC'd. It's just frustrating to use the spirits outside of dueling others as you roam around. It's not like these things are moving. They are killable, CC'able, fields. It's pretty stupid in design. Perhaps make them take vastly reduced damage as a means to allow them to actually function slightly better in large scale combat. Give them a relatively weak breakbar to withstand the massive amounts of CC in large scale combat? I also think each of them should be a combo field to give them some added use.

    There, I agree with almost everything you say. I always thought that Renegade was supposed to be Pyre Fierceshot from the very beginning. And I also understand why Devs wanted to make it Kalla, not Pyre. I could write about it all day long but it all comes down to the Star Wars: The Last Jedi case. I think they just decided to go with the strong female character. We could argue that Glint is one but as ab Elder Dragon she can't be really an example of something people could identify with.
    Kalla seems like a good choice then. The problem is, that it clearly feels very out of place for a lot of people (including me).
    Like you said - It looks like this E-Spec was prepared to be the Pyre Fierceshot but it got changed late.

    As for Renegade and Greatsword. I'm not a fan of GS for Revenant at all. In fact, this could be the very last weapon added to the arsenal of Rev. The idea behind this whole project was to make the entire E-Spec more logical; Kalla is depicted with Greatsword, so it probably was her weapon of choice. The Shortbow itself can be a great weapon if #2 gets fixed, #3 might be given Evade backward (Warrior Rifle #4) and #4 can be cast from behind. I just decided to change it for the sake of theme. I love themes, I love lore and all of the connections that characters have, so once I saw Revenant at the beginning of 2014 I knew it's going to be my favorite. Back to my point - Shortbow itself is a great weapon but it just doesn't work with Kalla for me, she is meant to have a Greatsword. My statement is: If they wanted to give Renegade a Shortbow, then go with Pyre, if no SB, then don't use Pyre and go with entirely different weapon.

    The spirits. Well, at this point I believe that root of the problem for Renegade is the Spirits mechanic. I don't think it can be fixed or tweaked to work properly.
    If they give it breakbar - they can become op (it's a huge AoE afterall). If they are immune to damage it's the same situation. If they provide Field effects - same. If you can tp to them - too strong. It can be done but it's not worth it I guess. The overall Rengeade's design doesn't work outside PvP. There are builds utilizing it but if someonereally wants, they'll get it.

    I'm all for the rework, if anything, all I could miss about current Renegade is Citadel Bombardment.

    Thanks for the kind words and great insight!

  • Absconditus.6804Absconditus.6804 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    You can "sort of" cast Spiritcrush from behind now. As long as you cast it a tiny bit in front of your own feet and keep moving, it's not interrupted and puts a field between you and whoever you're engaging. (Fire Sevenshot behind you and through it and you can often catch those chasing behind off guard and hit them with some extra Burning.) I'm fine with it needing to be initially cast ahead/at the feet of the Renegade. Maybe it could be a bit more lenient and actually allow the cast to occur right at your feet without moving forwards interrupting it though. I wouldn't be against an evade backwards on Sevenshot either, that's a fun idea, though I somewhat enjoy the intricacies in using it and lining up the shot so I would hope it would be an addition rather than a replacement. I know a lot of Renegade players hates it, but I think if you play with it for a while and get used to it, it starts to feel super rewarding to land in PvP. It's to be fair a rather powerful attack when all shots land if you have a mixed Power-Condi setup, so I am okay with it having a higher skill ceiling to land personally. I definitely would love a tiny bit more of an defensive interaction in the Shortbow skillset, without it necessarily replacing anything. A little leap opposite of the direction you fire the Sevenshot (you can fire it behind you as you kite) would be kinda cool and fits right into my way of using it. Scorchrazor is defensive, but it's so easy to dodge with how slow it travels. And if it traveled faster, it'd be OP.

    Anyways, this is kinda off topic, sorry. Love the art and I think your skill changes sounded fun at least.

    Seafarer's Rest | Enryon | Mistwarden [Hero]

  • That's beautiful! Renegade feels like it definetly needs a rework and I'm happy that a lot of people agree with that. The whole theme of the spec feels "not right" and those fan-concept looks like it was made with more love than original one. So, even if I'm not a GS fan I agree that it fits into the Kalla style when SB doesn't.
    The only problem is that we can't upvote the whole thread to make devs see the point =( Sweet deams are made of this...

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Baudrillard.4612 said:
    That's beautiful! Renegade feels like it definetly needs a rework and I'm happy that a lot of people agree with that. The whole theme of the spec feels "not right" and those fan-concept looks like it was made with more love than original one. So, even if I'm not a GS fan I agree that it fits into the Kalla style when SB doesn't.
    The only problem is that we can't upvote the whole thread to make devs see the point =( Sweet deams are made of this...

    Thanks a lot for the kind words!
    I really wanted to make this as close to an E-Spec Teaser as possible. This is obviously just a general idea on how would things work. That's just what I like to do - create alternative versions of something that's already here. Renegade seems like a good candidate since its design is very controversial.
    I'm not a fan of GS myself but I thought that this weapon fits Kalla best. Shortbow could be for Pyre Fierceshot.
    Well, without dreams there's nothing to chase after ^^

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    @Absconditus.6804 said:

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    I always wonder why we get a shortbow when renegade icon still looks like a greatsword .....

    I always thought if I stretched my imagination, it looked a little like the Guerrilla Arc bow when viewed from the front, though stylized and angled. Although I've mostly seen it as an arrow tip piercing through something, perhaps a portal through the mists. If it were a Greatsword, that'd be a very weird looking short one with a very strange hilt. As a melee weapon I think it looks more like a mace with a weird hilt. I do think Kalla was not supposed to be Kalla initially though, and it were actually Pyre Fierceshot that the Elite were designed around. That were a character we knew from GW. I think Kalla is Kalla for.. reasons, and were shoehorned in later in the development process after it were too late to redesign everything to fit a new weapon type. Don't get me wrong, I think Kalla is an absolutely awesome character in the lore, she's a strong lead character with major implications on the history within the Charr factions, but she clearly seems to have been more blade focused than her grandfather. I think it would have been better to add her as a later Elite with a blade weapon and them sticking with Pyre than renaming the legend and skills. Even the Manifest of Kalla Scorchrazor seems to push towards the narrative of a blade, although it's based on a common saying, as well as her statue, while retroactively having been fitted with a bow, has also always depicted her with a blade clutched between her hands.

    Still, I'm not sure why people are to this day seemingly so obsessed with Greatsword for Renegade, it's not like it will happen. I think the Shortbow needs work, it's a bit clunky, but overall I am happy with it. I were from the start. It even gave me a reason to go after and craft Chuka and Champawat. And it's not like Kalla doesn't fit the weapon at all. She was the grandcub of Pyre, I'm sure he passed on the skills of marksmanship to her. Fun enough fan mock-up though, Don. That said, I'd rather have Greatsword on a future Elite. Maybe they can give us Pyre with a Greatsword instead and retroactively fit a blade on to his statue. With some tweaks, I think the Shortbow can be made even more reliable and fun than I am already having with it. That you no longer interrupt Spiritcrush if you run through it after casting helps a ton. I literally run a Shortbow build right now with permanent Superspeed in combat to kite with. It's honestly pretty fun.

    Now if only the Renegade/Revenant dev(s) would actually fix Bloodbane Path not hitting all its arrows if the target is moving, that'd be helpful. And the spirits need some love, especially for World vs. World where they are borderline useless outside of popping Necromancer marks. The no valid path to target nonsense needs to go. It's long overdue that this gets fixed. They also die way too easily, they can be CC'd. It's just frustrating to use the spirits outside of dueling others as you roam around. It's not like these things are moving. They are killable, CC'able, fields. It's pretty stupid in design. Perhaps make them take vastly reduced damage as a means to allow them to actually function slightly better in large scale combat. Give them a relatively weak breakbar to withstand the massive amounts of CC in large scale combat? I also think each of them should be a combo field to give them some added use.

    There, I agree with almost everything you say. I always thought that Renegade was supposed to be Pyre Fierceshot from the very beginning. And I also understand why Devs wanted to make it Kalla, not Pyre. I could write about it all day long but it all comes down to the Star Wars: The Last Jedi case. I think they just decided to go with the strong female character. We could argue that Glint is one but as ab Elder Dragon she can't be really an example of something people could identify with.
    Kalla seems like a good choice then. The problem is, that it clearly feels very out of place for a lot of people (including me).
    Like you said - It looks like this E-Spec was prepared to be the Pyre Fierceshot but it got changed late.

    As for Renegade and Greatsword. I'm not a fan of GS for Revenant at all. In fact, this could be the very last weapon added to the arsenal of Rev. The idea behind this whole project was to make the entire E-Spec more logical; Kalla is depicted with Greatsword, so it probably was her weapon of choice. The Shortbow itself can be a great weapon if #2 gets fixed, #3 might be given Evade backward (Warrior Rifle #4) and #4 can be cast from behind. I just decided to change it for the sake of theme. I love themes, I love lore and all of the connections that characters have, so once I saw Revenant at the beginning of 2014 I knew it's going to be my favorite. Back to my point - Shortbow itself is a great weapon but it just doesn't work with Kalla for me, she is meant to have a Greatsword. My statement is: If they wanted to give Renegade a Shortbow, then go with Pyre, if no SB, then don't use Pyre and go with entirely different weapon.

    The spirits. Well, at this point I believe that root of the problem for Renegade is the Spirits mechanic. I don't think it can be fixed or tweaked to work properly.
    If they give it breakbar - they can become op (it's a huge AoE afterall). If they are immune to damage it's the same situation. If they provide Field effects - same. If you can tp to them - too strong. It can be done but it's not worth it I guess. The overall Rengeade's design doesn't work outside PvP. There are builds utilizing it but if someonereally wants, they'll get it.

    I'm all for the rework, if anything, all I could miss about current Renegade is Citadel Bombardment.

    Thanks for the kind words and great insight!

    We could of gotten other characters for a strong female, we didn't need Kalla specifically. Pyre was the clear choice especially because of his role liberating or starting the liberation of his species from the titans control. If we wanted a strong female character we could of gotten someone more established in the lore and I Feel like considering one of the charr's racials (Battle Cry) They say "Remember Pyre!". It could of been him or vatlaaw doomtooth who was renowned as well; A more sinister charr as a dark reminder of their origin and how we were introduced to them would of been cool and the banter between our charr and this older charr could of been neat.

    • Gwen: One of the main female protagonists and one we actually saw grow; Could of been cool and we could of still gotten short bow seeing as she eluded to being able to use any weapon proficiently.
    • Devona: The poster child of prophecies and the beast from the first trailer, her or Cyn(The elementalist from the same trailer could of worked.)
    • Muun/Eve: The necromancer trainer and henchman that worked her way through all of the original game; She was super strong in the lore and was steeped in the mists as swell in the lands of the dead.
    • Nike: She brought down shiro and was one of the best assasins known to walk tyria. Could of been cool and wouldn't of made us felt slighted as again she was proficient with any and all weapon; Short bow could have become a long ranged weapon to turn it from what it normally is on other classes.
    • Varesh Orssa: I mean this goes without saying she was one of the big bad's for nightfall and would of been cool to run; She was once a sunspear fallen to madness due to her god abbadon. She could of used a short bow on the legend simply because it "Embodies" Her sunspear training but as it became more perverse so did the need and desire to use a spear. (So The bow would shoot spear looking projectiles, despite it being a bow.)

    Renegade needs a rework because while its a cool concept its not good on the execution and frankly a bit lack luster; I find Core or herald to out-preform it and offer more in terms of kit and utility. Make the spirits summons who follow you about and can't be killed unless you're killed and they basically provide their benefit to "You" and only upon activation do they give it to the party. Make their activation and attack so they come from no where (Can't be seen by other players until activated as they don't offer any damage until then.) This would give a guerrilla war-fare feel to it and offer alot in terms of the theme. (Its called the guerrilla arc in the collection, you don't fight fairly or for honor you fight to win.) Change the utilities to be more beneficial for the player; Im tired of this force-fed you need to help your party shenanigans; We have so much support now and I feel renegade DOES NOT need to be one of them. Herald/Ventari do that role fine as is (Shield could use a rework for that but that is a topic for another day.)

    1. The heal skill: Should be something where you leap through a portal and basically for lack of a better term; Kick them in the wibbles and take a sizeable amount of health. As well make more traits deal with life-steal/life-siphon and make it a kind of symbiotic spec that heals off the damage it does.
    2. Second utility: Should offer stealth and self buffs based on the spec; I don't see why a guerrilla fighter doesn't have access to stealth as that is the entire premise of being a guerrilla fighter. You come from no-where with overwhelming odds and suppress your enemies attempts at retaliation with more if not greater force. This skill could also cause your spirits to all dive in and hit the enemy, so like a disengage that gives stealth and superspeed.
    3. The third utility: Should be a channeled ability which is what I belief the portal that fires missiles into tyria should be; I actually think it should be something you summon and the rift simply continues to fire at enemies for a duration. This would offer support in the idea that you are a spec centered around overwhelming foes, not dancing around hoping you hit them with your bow.
    4. The fourth: AoE knock-back; Something akin to "Roar of a hero" Or something where you roar and it is a hard cc that sends all flying, unless its a champ which then it counts as a cc with a slow and perhaps vulnerability?
    5. The elite: You consume the spirits of your allies and gain invulnerability(For a set time, like endure pain.); Your bloodlust drives you further and you gain might based on fervor as you lunge at your enemy to deliver a deceive blow. Basically some teleport shennagian with high damage but high risk as it leaves you without your spirits and thus without your F2-4 abilities.
    6. F2: You call to your spiritual allies and tell them to ambush a foe; Each of them dive out in succesion to deal damage/CC and cause vulnerability on the target. They also steal boons and give them back to you.
    7. F3: Put Inspire here.
    8. F4: Leave the alacrity I suppose, even though I doubt we need it with how ventari gives it out like hop-cakes now.

    I am not sure how they would rework short bow, I think giving it a disengage and allowing the death from above to land multiple times with quicker succession would be good. Mainly because I Feel like that skill is good but it needs some tuning, Seven shot could get reworked or just flat removed as it kind of sucks and the odds of hitting all seven are finicky at best. Our Cc wave is good but in any form of any competitive play its kinda meh; As well skill two whom misses alot if the target is moving. all'n'all there are ways to fix it but im not sure they will... at least not anytime soon.

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