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So to the people that say the playing field has been "evened", i have a question.


Anput.4620

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Can someone help me? I can't find the skill on my Thief, nor on my Ranger, which places down an AoE that applies like 27 condis and corrupts all their boons, also where is my stability button and the one that pumps out constant heals and boons? Can't find those too.

TY in advance.

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I think every sane individual who has common sense knows, that current balance is not good. This happens when everyone gets too much stuff. One of the big issues of current PvP/WvW balance is boon spam and their removal/convert. It is way overtuned to be healthy for game and some builds are straight broken because of that.I wish people were vocal about unhealthy balance as much as playing those fotm broken builds.

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Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

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@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

I literally can't roam except if i pick ranger with full zerk with a longbow, then i can be just little under half as effective as before, but my other specs can't do anything. So how do i use my Thieves in the TRUE WVW PLAYSTYLE of spamming AoE vs mobs when i have no aoe :/

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

If the thing you are good at has been gutted/made unplayable you might aswell be good at nothing.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

Wait for the nerfs/fixes. Since wvw is my main mode, am not a fan of mounts, either.You main thief, I see. I cant help but smile a little when you cant gank people as easily (judging by your topic history). But class balance is another issue, altogether.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

But mounts made those useless, so i heard the field has been evened yet those classes can't suddenly do well in zergs while every slow class can now avoid any fight at will for free. So if roaming is dead and unviable and Zerg is the only thing now then that makes those other classes very bad, yet i hear everyone say things are fair now?

Wait for the nerfs/fixes. Since wvw is my main mode, am not a fan of mounts, either.You main thief, I see. I cant help but smile a little when you cant gank people as easily (judging by your topic history). But class balance is another issue, altogether.

My main is a Warrior, Thief/Ranger/Ele/Guardian are my alts, i also made an engineer the other day! My warrior literally can do jack so i am trying to make ranger work before i quit the game, but it is hard. I just want to go back to playing my sword weaver again but having melee AA's vs mounts is literally unplayable already :D, i fought 1 whole person in my evening of trying my Ele again.

As long as mounts are above swiftness walk speed it will just not work, all my roam friends are now playing Apex instead or just don't WvW anymore if they liked PvE too but i want to play this game not some shooter game.

Also, ganking means ganging up on a lone person by overpowering them, a 1v1 is not a gank! Look at MOBA's, gank means lets 2v1 this lane with our jungler! That is the definition. I never run in groups, i just want to run around and fight people but try that on a melee class right now!

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@"Anput.4620" said:Can someone help me? I can't find the skill on my Thief, nor on my Ranger, which places down an AoE that applies like 27 condis and corrupts all their boons, also where is my stability button and the one that pumps out constant heals and boons? Can't find those too.

TY in advance.

They just happen to have different things (thieves sport the highest single target damage in the game, for example).But if some of those things happen to be bad for the game mode, devs should act on them.Like they did with turrets for engineers. They had no qualm on taking away the ability to "defend and protect an area" - the thing turrets were designed to do - from the engineer and give them nothing back as it was "for the good of the mode". Even if that means that turrets couldn't be used as turrets ever since (and most of them sit there unused).They can do the same to other classes if needed, then.If escaping and avoiding fights is bad, remove the ways to do it, be it mobility or stealth skills. Keep just the gap closers. Every fight ends with people dying, can't ask for anything better. Or conversely, if avoiding and escaping fights is fine...then there is no reason to complain about the mount giving a way to do it.It's just a matter of making their minds. It's too convenient to say that's a thing is bad only when other people can do it too. Either it was bad before as well, or it isn't bad now too.

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@Manuhell.2759 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:Can someone help me? I can't find the skill on my Thief, nor on my Ranger, which places down an AoE that applies like 27 condis and corrupts all their boons, also where is my stability button and the one that pumps out constant heals and boons? Can't find those too.

TY in advance.

They just happen to have different things (thieves sport the highest single target damage in the game, for example).But if some of those things happen to be bad for the game mode, devs should act on them.Like they did with turrets for engineers. They had no qualm on taking away the ability to "defend and protect an area" - the thing turrets were designed to do - from the engineer and give them nothing back as it was "for the good of the mode". Even if that means that turrets couldn't be used as turrets ever since (and most of them sit there unused).They can do the same to other classes if needed, then.If escaping and avoiding fights is bad, remove the ways to do it, be it mobility or stealth skills. Keep just the gap closers. Every fight ends with people dying, can't ask for anything better. Or conversely, if avoiding and escaping fights is fine...then there is no reason to complain about the mount giving a way to do it.It's just a matter of making their minds. It's too convenient to say that's a thing is bad only when other people can do it too. Either it was bad before as well, or it isn't bad now too.

Why should slow classes be allowed to do everything while these fast classes should only have a niche in your case? Give necro a mount then but make all their damage single target only!

If broken AoE damage and support isn't a problem then give it to these "niche" classes! It is about balance, a tradeoff, some people get to run fast, others get to spam yellow BS or spam heals and boons.

The mount also isn't an escape tool but an avoidance tool which is anti-interaction which is just terrible, literally only Daredevil has this mobility you talk of, i catch Deadeyes and Mesmers just fine.

So if mount basically makes people Daredevils can we have mounts for roamers that basically make them Necros or Firebrands too? OR we could just fix it but i think that concept may be too advanced for people to understand.

Like i even killed this DE 2 times the other day, no problems catching up on my Ele, only ones that outrun me are DD Thieves.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

You know what the actual issue is, here? The mount came to cater to the pver playerbase. Pvers got the mount, they cant be ganked (lets just acknowledge that the most salt comes from gankers who cant oneshot people anymore at their leisure). And here is the problem: pvers got their mount, but they left wvw. Very few, if any, stayed cause "they cant get ganked" anymore. And now wvwers have to deal with the aftermath

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Strange. I play scourge and i cant find the permaevade button, the 15k+ backstabs out of permastealth, or the 1800 attack range, or the permasustain on my character. Please fix.Classes are good at something. Others at zerging, others excel at roaming. However, if you have issues killing a scourge as a thief or ranger, buddy, I have news for you...

Maybe not, but you do get most of the benefits of the daredevil elite spec with warclaw.

Your point that classes are good at different things is correct, but there's a lot of issues at the moment with new content granting skills that bleed into another profession's defined strengths with little drawback, making the other profession worth less overall as a result. Mobility and mounts is one example, new sneak gyro and shadow refuge would be another. Or, just granting too much in general, to the exclusion of everything else; PvE chrono comes to mind here.

You know what the actual issue is, here? The mount came to cater to the pver playerbase. Pvers got the mount, they cant be ganked (lets just acknowledge that the most salt comes from gankers who cant oneshot people anymore at their leisure). And here is the problem: pvers got their mount, but they left wvw. Very few, if any, stayed cause "they cant get ganked" anymore. And now wvwers have to deal with the aftermath

It isn't ganking if you don't outnumber them.

It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level.

I only play on my own!

That being said, these filthy gankers killed me yesterday!

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Aren't these the exact same poeple complaining about the solo players engaging in PvP combat in an open world PvP mode?

Also how can i oneshot with my sword weaver? Or my spellbreaker? Axe ranger? Like the only thing capable of oneshotting which i have a character of is my Thief which i don't even play the most!

Also why would we have to cater to PvE people anyways? Sounds like Anet is disconected with the target audiance of an open world PvP mode.

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@"Anput.4620" said:

Why should slow classes be allowed to do everything while these fast classes should only have a niche in your case? Give necro a mount then but make all their damage single target only!

If broken AoE damage and support isn't a problem then give it to these "niche" classes! It is about balance, a tradeoff, some people get to run fast, others get to spam yellow BS or spam heals and boons.

The mount also isn't an escape tool but an avoidance tool which is anti-interaction which is just terrible, literally only Daredevil has this mobility you talk of, i catch Deadeyes and Mesmers just fine.

So if mount basically makes people Daredevils can we have mounts for roamers that basically make them Necros or Firebrands too? OR we could just fix it but i think that concept may be too advanced for people to understand.

Engineers had their ability to "defend and protect areas" neutered for the good of PvP. With no tradeoff, turrets were gutted and can't be used to do that anymore. There was no issue in removing that "niche".Other classes can have their abilities sacrificed as well, if it's for the good of the game mode. Either avoiding and escaping fights is a bad design - and then that bad design gets fixed in all the cases - or it isn't.Besides, you should be fine with that, you even made a video complaining that people don't want to fight, so if i propose changes that force people to fight how come you aren't fine with them? Or you wanted to fight only at your leisure and be able to flee if things go wrong, perhaps? That wouldn't be good for a PvP mode.

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@Manuhell.2759 said:

@"Anput.4620" said:

Why should slow classes be allowed to do everything while these fast classes should only have a niche in your case? Give necro a mount then but make all their damage single target only!

If broken AoE damage and support isn't a problem then give it to these "niche" classes! It is about balance, a tradeoff, some people get to run fast, others get to spam yellow BS or spam heals and boons.

The mount also isn't an escape tool but an avoidance tool which is anti-interaction which is just terrible, literally only Daredevil has this mobility you talk of, i catch Deadeyes and Mesmers just fine.

So if mount basically makes people Daredevils can we have mounts for roamers that basically make them Necros or Firebrands too? OR we could just fix it but i think that concept may be too advanced for people to understand.

Engineers had their ability to "defend and protect areas" neutered for the good of PvP. With no tradeoff, turrets were gutted and can't be used to do that anymore. There was no issue in removing that "niche".Other classes can have their abilities sacrificed as well, if it's for the good of the game mode. Either avoiding and escaping fights is a bad design - and then that bad design gets fixed in all the cases - or it isn't.Besides, you should be fine with that, you even made a video complaining that people don't want to fight, so if i propose changes that force people to fight how come you aren't fine with them? Or you wanted to fight only at your leisure and be able to flee if things go wrong, perhaps? That wouldn't be good for a PvP mode.

Escaping fights isn't bad, because you use your classes strenghts to their advantage, having external arbitrary factors decide that everyone can avoid fights is bad.

Also, i am not the person in the video.

Also, how do all these people run from you so easilly when i only have problems with Daredevils?

This literally kills a role, for no good at all, the gamemode has only had less interaction. This also isn't balance, no other PvP game would allow an item that makes you permanently invulnerable unless you decide to turn it off. Stop using these wierd opposited when every class has their own strenghts and weaknesses, deleting some from the game because you don't like them just isn't fair.

Like i said, if you can't catch a non-daredevil it is an l2p issue.

But please give me your elaborate plan of stripping daredevils of their mobility while buffing them so they get way more good things in other areas to compensate, can we nerf slow classes AoE/DpS/Tankyness too then btw? I wouldn't mind a 10k range item that teleports you and an enemy to an arena that gets smaller overtime for a fight to the death, seems you approve of that!

You can't have it all, which you seem to want.

The one other game i play which has mounts in PvP gives you an instant dismount once hit, no evades, a cast time for mounting and it is a shooting game so high ranges, i have zero problems with mounts in that game.

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@Anput.4620 said:Can someone help me? I can't find the skill on my Thief, nor on my Ranger, which places down an AoE that applies like 27 condis and corrupts all their boons, also where is my stability button and the one that pumps out constant heals and boons? Can't find those too.

TY in advance.

You won't ... but you don't need that many anyways ...

You seem to be grasping at lots of straws here. Maybe you should just learn to play instead.

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@Anput.4620 said:Can someone help me? I can't find the skill on my Thief, nor on my Ranger, which places down an AoE that applies like 27 condis and corrupts all their boons, also where is my stability button and the one that pumps out constant heals and boons? Can't find those too.

TY in advance.

You could always ask the guy we found the other day who would repeatedly chain Vault over 15 times in a row and somehow manage to have constant evade frames before the start of one Vault and the next and even during the aftercast of Vault without using Dash or any other evade skill like Roll for Initiative. And seemingly unlimited initiative too.

I've never seen anyone walk through a Spectral Ring like that without being affected by it.

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@"Anput.4620" said:Escaping fights isn't bad, because you use your classes strenghts to their advantage, having external arbitrary factors decide that everyone can avoid fights is bad.Again, "defending and protecting an area" with turrets was a class strength of the engineers. Turrets still got neutered because it was deemed a bad design, and nothing was given to make up for it. They had no qualm about removing a "class strength" for the good of the game mode, so they can do the same to other classes as well, be it daredevils or someone else. Beside, there is no "external arbitrary factor" to begin with, the mount is part of the game mode now. Anyway, either avoiding/escaping fights is always bad or it isn't, it has nothing to do with the class. Whoever they are, they're still denying a fight. If you want a fight, it's bad either way.Still, this talk isn't going anywhere and i have nothing else to add to the facts i've already mentioned, so i'll just stop replying from now on.

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if you are a thief or ranger and in range to get hit by an AoE corrupt that buggers you all to hell, that's on you. Scourges are sitting ducks to range classes; it's laughable just how outmatched they are. As far as classes pumping out constant stability, heals , and boons; yes those classes need a massive whack in the wee-wee. People complain about too much damage, yet when a full zerk class crits against a full tank class and can't crack 2K in damage, there is a problem. Not to mention the healing hand over fist that is either thrown on that tank or the tank throws on themselves.

Tanky classes do too much damage, and zerk classes don't do enough damage to tanky classes. Maybe Anet needs to change both how concentration and the healing stat work.

Instead of concentration increasing boon duration, change it so the higher the stat, the more boons you can have. Aka, no concentration on your gear, your character cannot receive boons. The plus side to this, there is nothing on you to corrupt. You want to be in a party where you all share boons - put gear on with lots of concentration.

Instead of healing power affecting all outgoing healing (skills, traits, and regeneration boon), change it so it only affects the amount the character receives. If you have low healing power, any healing thrown at you is minimal.

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