Why Remove Birds and Slippery Slope? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why Remove Birds and Slippery Slope?

I mean they actually changed how you needed to play the fractal and your choice of fractal inside the tier actually mattered. We managed to clear every daily fractal, so it is not the case that some fractals were "unplayable" and most of the people i palyed fractals with quite enjoyed them as they created interesting and funny moments.
I really can not understand this decision but i guess i will have to live with the fractals becoming less fun because endgame content was too hard for some.
I hope arenanet can bring them back in maybe an altered form and maybe next patch everything will be fine again, but then again, why remove them first?

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Comments

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭

    tons of ppl complained, because some fractals literally became unplayble. I didnt complained, ive just skipped those fractals

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    because the game is getting more and more casual.

    something to hard? no worries you don't have to improve/adapt!
    head to the forum, throw a rant and have patience.

  • xINothing.9561xINothing.9561 Member
    edited March 26, 2019

    this is whats wrong with the community tbh > @melandru.3876 said:

    because the game is getting more and more casual.

    something to hard? no worries you don't have to improve/adapt!
    head to the forum, throw a rant and have patience.

    >

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is. you get moved to a position you don't want to (sucked to the edge) so you counter it my moving to the oppsite direction (centre)

    result= you stay at your spot and are free to dps boss

    it's the exact kitten way with slippery slope, but god forbid we have to do something other then range from centre with 6k dps right (yes, had warriors using rifle....)

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is. you get moved to a position you don't want to (sucked to the edge) so you counter it my moving to the oppsite direction (centre)

    result= you stay at your spot and are free to dps boss

    it's the exact kitten way with slippery slope, but god forbid we have to do something other then range from centre with 6k dps right (yes, had warriors using rifle....)

    What is this? 2017? You kill Firestorm first. Powered-up Berserker is just a DPS golem after you break the defiance bar. No annoying tornados nor melee players having a "fun" time trying to DPS.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is.

    No, because you can simply stay in the middle. You don't get outside, you don't get affected. There weren't any fights with similar slippery slope-safe spots though.

    If Anet tried to have the vortex cover the whole platform, you can be sure people would have been very angry about it.

    So, basically, apples and oranges.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    i mean...molten boss fractal when you kill berserker first, then firestorm phases, and causes a tornado on the edges that "suck you off the border"

    that specific phase, IS exactly what slippery slope is.

    No, because you can simply stay in the middle. You don't get outside, you don't get affected. There weren't any fights with similar slippery slope-safe spots though.

    If Anet tried to have the vortex cover the whole platform, you can be sure people would have been very angry about it.

    So, basically, apples and oranges.

    if you stay in middle, and firstorm is at edge you do zero damage as melee, so extending the fight...
    ironically, the major complaint is that "the fractals now take to long"

    make up your mind, will you

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    1. Because that's what most people asked for and Anet listened to them for once.
    2. Because those two instabilities were annoying as hell.

    wrong, on both ends
    i like how 5 negatove threads somehow represent the "majority", while in reality it's the oppsite
    the ones who enjoy something simply do so
    the ones who don't feel the need to express it.

    which part is the minority now?

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    1. Because that's what most people asked for and Anet listened to them for once.
    2. Because those two instabilities were annoying as hell.

    wrong, on both ends
    i like how 5 negatove threads somehow represent the "majority", while in reality it's the oppsite
    the ones who enjoy something simply do so
    the ones who don't feel the need to express it.

    which part is the minority now?

    When there are elections, those who "don't feel the need to express it" aren't considered. Here is the same, if you liked them you should've expressed before, now it's late. It's not like Anet or anyone else can quantify the numbers of those who liked them if they didn't say a word.
    However I only heard complaints, I never heard of people who liked them nor here on forums nor in game, if they liked them, they should've said it!
    So yes, they're still the minority unless proved wrong.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    1. Because that's what most people asked for and Anet listened to them for once.
    2. Because those two instabilities were annoying as hell.

    wrong, on both ends
    i like how 5 negatove threads somehow represent the "majority", while in reality it's the oppsite

    So, the majority actually liked those instabilities? I guess it's why the amount of players in fractals after previous instab change plummeted.
    ...oh wait.

    show me a thread made by a seasoned cm-player, you'll have to dig really deep, if you even find one
    pugs will be pugs

    pugs are "happy" if they somehow have a good party composition, then each is running whatever build they like. scourges staff autoattacking? yes sir, they exist.
    who will struggle to clear content? i know i don't

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    i don’t understand people preaching about wanting the game fun and challenge but you ignore the challenge part as part of slippery slope.

    birds have to go cuz we’re not all daredevils with an extra dodge that can be wasted. plus the birds, if they ever come back, need to be tweaked. nobody gets out of combat when they’re around and it makes return to checkpoint for downed players hard. so your group has to force a /gg and walk all the way to their current position.

    i do CMs and t4s daily with pugs. that is a super tough environment to live in.
    I really like slippery slope and still do. but it needs a rework for so many people as well. i know some have bad motion sickness and just avoid it in general. it’s like rpg games with riding horses. Anet could have toned it down and make skills involved movement more reliable. cuz them skills were missing or fly off into mid air and it affected dps as well as healing significantly for “slippery slope inexperienced” people. idk what to call here since a lot of people just avoid the instability instead of spending more time to master it and rage less? the first 3 days SS came out with it present in consecutive 100CMs was crazy. but i adapted and it made me focus on my position more than ever before.

    please don’t moan about molten bosses cuz you’re killing firestorm first. lol. if not firestorm first, you need to practice your dps. same for SS in deepstone. if you have any problem falling off the platform, it means your party people don’t use special action off cd, which means you dun do a part of that fractal’s mechanics.
    the instability doesn’t make a fractal unplayable, it poses challenges when go with other instabilities, force you to learn where to stand, when to move and do mechanics of that fractal. just please bring slippery slope back but give it a good twerking tweak. deleting things out of oblivion doesn’t fix the problem.

  • Aenaos.8160Aenaos.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not about hard or easy.
    Instabilities are secondary mechanisms meant to add some variety to the fights but some of the new ones ended up completely overshadowing the core design of a fractal.
    Although I too didn't want birds completely removed,increasing the spawn frequency would be a better solution,this particular instability-the way it was implemented-made me almost drop fractals completely as it became one dodge too many for my taste.We already have to dodge something or die every 2 - 3 seconds in t4 fights and buuurds was the drop that filled the "enough with the dodge" bucket.
    As for slippery slope,this was not a serious addition.It would be great as a April Fool's day gimmick and it's great they got around and decided to remove it.

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @Spike.5073 said:
    How hard is it to understand: The "challenge" slippery slope provided was unfun for too many players, so they quit. I bet anet has the numbers, or they wouldn't have removed it. Fractals were never designed with ice floor physics in place. It's just really bad game design. The End.

    still fun to me. and i pug daily. i wish Ben was here cuz that's how those instabilities were here in the first place. they may remove it now and add it later with a fix ;] how many times this has happened? i'm sure you'd know it by now.
    i trained at least 1-2 new players each weak for fractals. pugs and lfg are still the same, plenty. just cuz some people quit playing fractals cuz they aren't patient enough to master them or keep on raging, it doesn't mean the other people don't jump in and play. people who i haven't seen fractals for a long time came back after the introduction of the new instabilities. so it actually balances the scale. i'd love to see the numbers as well if Anet ever releases it. you have low gravity physics, there's nothing wrong with drifting physics. it just needs to be reworked for the majority. and i'm sure they plan to work on it. it's just how and when so it's been taken away in the mean time. birds are gone cuz it's just bad on so many levels.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    If stability disabled the icefloor effect it would have been a good instability. But no counterplay = no fun.
    Birds was just annoying because they messed up your rotations at random intervals with their aoe blinds. Rng if they show up or not, not fun.
    They will not be missed. Have no problems with the rest of the instabilities.

  • Spike.5073Spike.5073 Member ✭✭

    @Hex.2579 said:
    just cuz some people quit playing fractals cuz they aren't patient enough to master them or keep on raging

    Will you stop playing because they removed slippery slope?

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Spike.5073 said:
    Will you stop playing because they removed slippery slope?

    nope. why should i? i'm not one of those raging birdies, so it wouldn't affect my gameplay. i was just trying to put my 2 cents about the removal of slippery slope. and reading around the forums, i'm not in the minority as well =]

  • Spike.5073Spike.5073 Member ✭✭
    edited March 26, 2019

    @Hex.2579 said:

    @Spike.5073 said:
    Will you stop playing because they removed slippery slope?

    nope.

    Then you got your answer. And stop it with the majority / minority kitten.

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:
    We originally tried stability that disables slippery slope but it felt bad to have it randomly turn on and off. There was likely a way to make that work but the slippery slope mechanic in hindsight is much better as a mechanic for a specific encounter rather than a global modifier just because of how much it changes the way combat and movement works. It is indeed fun to mess around with but as a persistent effect in combat I found it less fun personally and went against the core feel of the game. The birds didn’t have great counterplay IMO it just forces you to dodge.

    Honestly designing instabilities is really hard.

    Thanks, Ben. Love you and the best to you. You don't know how much I appreciate you posting here still. And of course it's hard, what work, if done right, isn't?

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quetz.1638 said:

    I mean they actually changed how you needed to play the fractal and your choice of fractal inside the tier actually mattered. We managed to clear every daily fractal, so it is not the case that some fractals were "unplayable" and most of the people i palyed fractals with quite enjoyed them as they created interesting and funny moments.
    I really can not understand this decision but i guess i will have to live with the fractals becoming less fun because endgame content was too hard for some.
    I hope arenanet can bring them back in maybe an altered form and maybe next patch everything will be fine again, but then again, why remove them first?

    Hopefully posts like this will demonstrate the disconnect between the fractal community's skill level and inspire Anet to start releasing CM's again...

    Because honestly, Birds/Slippery Slope weren't even that bad... I know people want their braindead dailies to farm and power through, but nobody can deny that things like Slippery Slope (especially) spiced things up. But obviously, they created combinations that were too hard for a lot of players, so anet responded to the majority and most vocal of the opinions out there and removed them. And you can't blame them really... There was far more QQ about these instabilities than anything from the average PvE player, and the average PvE player has a pretty low skillcap.

    I just hope now that they made fractal super face roll again for experienced groups, they will see that they need to divide the content--and honestly fractal CM's are the best way they're done this so far in any game mode. People who are better or want the challenge can get it for increased rewards, and less experienced players can just do regular for (still good) rewards.

    Personally for me, I stopped playing fractals when Siren's came out without a CM, but all the QQ about Birds and Slope quickly made me come back.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    I like a challenge but I don't like an over 1 hour for one fractal challenge because I don't run with a static and play at odd times of night. Yes both instabs were doable but sometimes the stars aligned for a night of hell with certain instab combinations and that drove the fun away. Birds was one of the reasons that I made a Mercy scourge. People would be out of dodges and get hit with a big attack and I would swoop in and pick them up. I have to be selective with my playing time and some nights were solely dedicated to fractals because some groups could not handle it. I am glad to see them gone. Would not mind seeing them come back if they get a rework.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @Spike.5073 said:
    Then you got your answer. And stop it with the majority / minority kitten.

    stop being salty. lol. your answer isn't set in stone and so is mine. i have my own opinion and so are yours.
    everyone knows why SC celebrates the remove of both birds and slippery slope. speed clearing record here they come again. those instas just hinder them more.

  • RAZOR.7246RAZOR.7246 Member ✭✭

    @ narcx.3570...
    I agree about the need for a split between easier and harder content. That said, this complaining is not unjustified. The changes that people requested for before these was to have instabilities be less annoying yet more fight oriented. IMO this would have involved both positive and negative instabilities. The old SA was considered to be annoying but these instabilities are far worse in comparison.

    I absolutely love fractals.. I do them 3-4 times a day in speedrun groups and pugs as well so I know the gulf in skill level between these players better than most. Pugs don’t cc, don’t do good dps and boon uptimes/Mechanics are an issue. By comparison a speedrun group instabreaks bars and bursts before anything happens. It’s a high risk high reward thing. If you’re going to come on a comp with a healer and “tank” builds and still expect to skip boss mechanics then that’s completely unreasonable. It’s defeats the purpose of fractals which is to burst dmg, do skips where possible and fast CC to avoid boss mechanics and maximise DPS. CMs are not difficult by any means and each boss can be done in around 2mins in speedruns, under 1min on MAMA and Siax. By comparison casual pug groups take double or triple that time because of Low DPS and poor overall gameplay. It’s the players and comps that are the problem with CM difficulty. Quite frankly sirens with outflanked and sugar is far more aids then any CM run and takes far too Long with no skips. It’s a simple matter of the rewards don’t match the difficulty. What players want from harder content is exclusive rewards, not just a few encryptions and matrices.

    Because of these reasons there should be more CMs so that base T4s can cater to more casual players and CMs can appease more elite players.

  • Tman.6349Tman.6349 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    1. Because that's what most people asked for and Anet listened to them for once.
    2. Because those two instabilities were annoying as hell.

    wrong, on both ends
    i like how 5 negatove threads somehow represent the "majority", while in reality it's the oppsite

    So, the majority actually liked those instabilities? I guess it's why the amount of players in fractals after previous instab change plummeted.
    ...oh wait.

    show me a thread made by a seasoned cm-player

    There were seasoned cm-players in those threads as well. Which is besides the point. It's the fractal population dropping significantly after instab change (which it did) that matters. It wouldn't happen if most people actually liked those changes.

    having a bunch of seasonal activities back to back can do that to the fractal population too though, maybe idk

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Hopefully posts like this will demonstrate the disconnect between the fractal community's skill level and inspire Anet to start releasing CM's again...

    I just hope now that they made fractal super face roll again for experienced groups, they will see that they need to divide the content--and honestly fractal CM's are the best way they're done this so far in any game mode. People who are better or want the challenge can get it for increased rewards, and less experienced players can just do regular for (still good) rewards.

    Personally for me, I stopped playing fractals when Siren's came out without a CM, but all the QQ about Birds and Slope quickly made me come back.

    i agree. CMs option would be nice. but then i think they already stopped working on CM after 100. and all of the new fractals pose like real CMs to most players. i still struggle in them siren's reef and twilight oasis in pug environment. have to wipe at least once to know what the group is lacking so i could switch into. if every fractal has a CM version, that's a lot of designing to do. i agree that CMs are the best things they ever designed!

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because the game is getting more and more casual.

    something to hard? no worries you don't have to improve/adapt!
    head to the forum, throw a rant and have patience.

    Maybe you are one of those players that run CM's naked, and solo. Following your same reasoning, equipment, gear, food, team mates... that's all for weak players.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since new instabs were introduced, Iv missed daily clears maybe few times, but Iv NEVER seen someone writing: "oh cool, there is slippery slope today, that's gonna be fun/no worse instabs instead"
    Being unable to react properly to red circles appearing under you, was not a definition of fun, or a challenge

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    I loved birds and thought slippy was quite a challenge.. But hey ho people complain things arent hard enough then moan when they get something hard... #causuallife

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:
    We originally tried stability that disables slippery slope but it felt bad to have it randomly turn on and off. There was likely a way to make that work but the slippery slope mechanic in hindsight is much better as a mechanic for a specific encounter rather than a global modifier just because of how much it changes the way combat and movement works. It is indeed fun to mess around with but as a persistent effect in combat I found it less fun personally and went against the core feel of the game. The birds didn’t have great counterplay IMO it just forces you to dodge.

    Honestly designing instabilities is really hard.

    Hey! I've got a question regarding the slippery slope instability, if its possible to get an answer to.

    I am wondering, from where did you get this idea from ? Was it directly from SAB, or did it come to mind from somewhere else ?
    I am asking this because at some point, i made a forum post with new instability suggestions, and one of them was "Slippery terrain" which would work just like the Slippery slope worked. My direct description of it was:

    All walkable terrain would work similar to SAB w2z3 ice. This sounds to me like a fun idea, but most people would probably find it one of the most annoying/hated instabilites. Im also not sure how it would work with the jumping puzzle parts in Uncategorized and Chaos fractal, would most likely have to be dissabled there, or just in the whole fractal. It could work with time intervals though (10 seconds on, 10 second off).

    This is why i wonder, if my post possibly had some impact on it, if so, sory peeps /o\

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because the game is getting more and more casual.

    something to hard? no worries you don't have to improve/adapt!
    head to the forum, throw a rant and have patience.

    hard is hard annoying is annoying and those 2 where simple annoying

  • @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

    No thank you If I don't dodge and get blinded, I could deliver more dps on boss.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

    U mean these 5 ticks 1k each? No,sorry. I already mentioned we bleed fire has to be changed in the way, so it reflects dmg back to source to be a good instab. And puff! It happened. Now u are rewarded for adapting to given instab. Birds gave rly no reward, unless ur masochist, than yea I guess u might don't like these changes

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

    No thank you If I don't dodge and get blinded, I could deliver more dps on boss.

    and here we have what is wrong

    "must stand still and dps boss as if it was a testgolem"

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

    No thank you If I don't dodge and get blinded, I could deliver more dps on boss.

    and here we have what is wrong

    "must stand still and dps boss as if it was a testgolem"

    No, must save dodge to avoid boss attacks. Not being blinded randomly messing with my positioning and rotation.
    Give me a challenge, not annoyance

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because the game is getting more and more casual.

    something to hard? no worries you don't have to improve/adapt!
    head to the forum, throw a rant and have patience.

    Maybe you are one of those players that run CM's naked, and solo. Following your same reasoning, equipment, gear, food, team mates... that's all for weak players.

    you are trying to make fun of me, but the joke is on you
    youtube "100cm solo" by fractal spoon, that's right: skorvald, artsaariv AND arkk all solo, on 100cm

    meanwhile baddies have issues with 81 very first phase, can't even open a freaking door

    nice try tho

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:

    @Nyuuu.6149 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    In my opinion as a player that has been doing fractals for years, insts add nothing but artificial annoyances to fights (like orange circle spam and infinite trash spam do). And birds and slippery slope were on the very top of that annoyance. Difficulty and variety should come from boss mechanics.

    Variety from boss mechanics? Like a boss that does different attacks each time you fight him? That is not how a boss is supposed to work. And adding more bosses to the game is no solution either because you will run the "old" fractals more often than not.
    When you fight against a boss for the 50th time it is just not difficult anymore.
    Birds and slippery slope were a good way to change how you have to play and move, which is exactly what instabilities are all about.
    The fight only got harder if you didn't adapt your movement to slippery slope. It was possible to have somewhat precise positioning.

    Birds were good way to change the way u play? U mean getting blinded in random moment when u start to burst, and than just burn dodge for it, that should be used on other boss/instab mechanics? I need to admit, that's a rly cool way to make game less boring :)

    Indeed it is. You dodge and deliver the damage back to the boss.
    The lack of endurance just prevents you from relying on your dodgeroll all the time. You might need to sidestep or walk out of some AoE. Or you change your build to get more vigor or use different buff food.
    With that argumentation they would have to remove "we bleed fire" next because it makes you dodge, too.

    No thank you If I don't dodge and get blinded, I could deliver more dps on boss.

    and here we have what is wrong

    "must stand still and dps boss as if it was a testgolem"

    No, must save dodge to avoid boss attacks. Not being blinded randomly messing with my positioning and rotation.
    Give me a challenge, not annoyance

    if only there were classes that give aegis to a group, so said group can facetank.
    pssst, they allready can!

    mesmer shares aegis
    fb shares aegis
    dragonhunter shares aegis

    howmany skills do you now need to actually dodge (because they are unblockable) i'll give you a hint, really not that much.
    what are the odds, that in the 1 second timespan having to actually dodge, you get birds TWICE? nihil, because birds are set on a exact interval.

    so how exactly does this mess with rotations?

    complelty ignnoring the fact that you also have perma vigor(+50% endurance regen) from chrono+druid, and you have a fractal potion that gives another +50% (infinite mist mobility) endurance regen
    "Each dodge requires 50 endurance, meaning that most characters (who have 100 endurance) can dodge twice in a row; the exception is the thief elite specialization the Daredevil, who has a total of 150 endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate 10% per second."

    50% endurance = 1 dodge
    10% per 1 second = max endurance regen (pot + vigorr

    a dodge every 5 seconds, "birds annoying i never have endurance"

    know what to actually dodge, and know what to sidestep then you will alwlays have atleast 1 dodge ready

    a clear l2p issue

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2019

    double post