When will the glamour trait come back ? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

When will the glamour trait come back ?

viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 16, 2019 in Mesmer

It's been more than 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
(I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

Comments

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.

    Domi: -
    Duel: -
    Chaos: manipulation
    Inspiration: mantras, signets
    Illusions: -

    Domination also only has one weapon trait as opposed to two in duel/illusions.

    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.

    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:

    Domi: rending shatter, ...
    Dueling: desperate decoy
    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)


    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    edit: let's try to keep this thread somewhat bumped so anet will see it

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

    If I had my way:

    • New Glamour trait in Chaos
    • Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

    kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

    If I had my way:

    • New Glamour trait in Chaos
    • Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

    kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

    Glamour trait affecting etheral fields would be great imo.

  • @Xaylin.1860 said:
    You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

    If I had my way:

    • New Glamour trait in Chaos
    • Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

    kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

    Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.
    (Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
    (I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

    Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.
    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.
    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:
    Domi: rending shatter, egotism

    Egotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)
    Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

    Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoy

    Desperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

    Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.

    phantasmal fury

    Unless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

    If I had my way:

    • New Glamour trait in Chaos
    • Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

    kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

    Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.
    (Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

    Noooo. I don't want it deleted. He didn't list it among weapon traits.

    I'd like the new Glamour trait to be on the GM level in Chaos so it could also synergize with the Staff and Fall trait. Imagine stuff like 'Grant Chaos Armor to allies upon casting an Etheral field or a Glamour.' Group Protection with Staff trait... Yes. Second class Auramancer but I'd enjoy it.

    Now... PU would probably have to be moved to Illusions GM (Torch and Escapist). Which would lead to more reshuffling. I personally don't care for Malicious Sorcery and could see merging it with MtD being the easiest solution. Maybe also merge Cry of Frustration with Master of Fragmentation and add a less niche Minor.

    Since we're at it... Illusionary Inspiration should be the new GM minor in Inspiration. Healing Prism has been on life support since it got the ICD. This could open up some secondary Healer gameplay.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    You forgot the Staff trait in Chaos and the Focus trait in Inspiration. :p

    If I had my way:

    • New Glamour trait in Chaos
    • Does not only reduce cooldowns but also affect Etheral Fields in general in some way

    kitten... this makes me want to re-organize so many traits. But I need to go to bed. :s

    Staff trait is the bread and butter of Chronobunkers in PVP.
    (Not that I wouldn't like to see it removed haha)

    Noooo. I don't want it deleted. He didn't list it among weapon traits.

    I'd like the new Glamour trait to be on the GM level in Chaos so it could also synergize with the Staff and Fall trait. Imagine stuff like 'Grant Chaos Armor to allies upon casting an Etheral field or a Glamour.' Group Protection with Staff trait... Yes. Second class Auramancer but I'd enjoy it.

    Now... PU would probably have to be moved to Illusions GM (Torch and Escapist). Which would lead to more reshuffling. I personally don't care for Malicious Sorcery and could see merging it with MtD being the easiest solution. Maybe also merge Cry of Frustration with Master of Fragmentation and add a less niche Minor.

    Since we're at it... Illusionary Inspiration should be the new GM minor in Inspiration. Healing Prism has been on life support since it got the ICD. This could open up some secondary Healer gameplay.

    Yeah I only included then weapon traits in the lines where there are no utility traits on purpose. Ill make it more clear.

    Also, while chaos or insp would be the obvious place to out the trait, I think that's what makes it less interest. I would rather see a dps/utility mesmer build than further buffs to the bruiser playstyle with chaos. Chaos id already very strong.

    Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
    (I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

    Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.
    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.
    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:
    Domi: rending shatter, egotism

    Egotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)

    That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.

    Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

    Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoy

    Desperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

    Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

    // Yanim

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
    (I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

    Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.
    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.
    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:
    Domi: rending shatter, egotism

    Egotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)

    That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.

    Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

    Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoy

    Desperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

    Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

    10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)
    Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.

    Yeah. The utility traits were generally better spread out, with signet in domination, mantras in dueling, manipulations in chaos, glamours in insp, "illusions" category in illusions.

    phantasmal fury

    Unless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

    I don't like phantasmal fury because 1. it is flat much worse than empowered illusions (+15% dmg) and 2. we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions). But yeah desperate decoy is better to replace anyway.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
    (I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

    Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.
    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.
    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:
    Domi: rending shatter, egotism

    Egotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)

    That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.

    Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

    Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoy

    Desperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

    Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

    10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)
    Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

    I mean that it is as boring as a sigil/rune effect. But anyway I don't really care about it since shattered concentration is there.

    // Yanim

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's been near 6 months that we have 5 skills with 0 traits synergy now...
    (I would hope that they did something about it last patch...)

    Exactly when they realize they cant balance and unnerf vigor/sword (never)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    We should talk about where to place the trait as well. I think most people would say inspiration or chaos out of habit, but allow me to present my argument.
    My point is that the glamour trait should be in domi, duel, or illusions. This could also help bring back the hybrid dps/utility role which Mesmer occupied before HoT.
    Some decent trait slots which glamour trait could replace in my opinion:
    Domi: rending shatter, egotism

    Egotism is 10% in pve which is good. Thats why mesmer players hate you, you want to nerf their class(own) for the sake of pvp ignoring majority of players :)

    That's true but it is such a boring trait, even in PvE -- it's pretty much a sigil. But on the other hand thid is a pretty bad spot to put it anyway bcs it would.compete with shattered concentration.

    Rending shatter takes the crown of the worst trait (CS is kinda not really attractive but annoying when have daze mantra)

    Dueling: phantasmal fury, desperate decoy

    Desperate decoy hurt user most of times. Would be good to replace it.

    Chaos: illusionary defense, chaotic transference, auspicious anguish, prismatic understanding
    Illusions: escape artist (lol @ this trait)

    Ok,that trait is the most useless I ever seen... Should be ditched for sure

    10% =/= sigil which is 5% . Yet, its good for pve. Just as phantasmal fury. Not many would like it :) Meanwhile 5% is pathetic low in pvp. Engi for examp gets 10% more damage when vigor is on and its pretty much permanent boost (being a minor trait on top)
    Escape artist is completely bs and must be removed entirely...

    I mean that it is as boring as a sigil/rune effect. But anyway I don't really care about it since shattered concentration is there.

    Well. Thats really bad thats its ended up being just 5% damage....and true its boring (and underwhelming imo) . Shattered concentration is the best choice but hardly remove many boons

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sometime ago Odik and I talked about this on game and after some research, unless we missed something, there are only two types of skills on the entire game without any traits affecting them, spectral and glamour, spectral got buffed when ANet deleted the trait tho.

    I don't use any glamour skills, except for the ocasional portal, but I agree 100% with this.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.

    phantasmal fury

    Unless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

    we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).

    Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

    Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.

    Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.

    phantasmal fury

    Unless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

    we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).

    Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

    Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.

    It is strange to me that there should be three fairly generic +dmg to phantasm traits, in three completely different traitlines.

    Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

    Inspiration already has two utility traits so I dislike that.

    // Yanim

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Another thing to talk about is if ether feast should get a utility category and whether decoy, mirror images, phantasmal disenchanter and phantasmal defender should get a category.

    They used to have its own ‘category’ in Illu in the form of Illusionist’s Celerity (-15% CD of all illusion skills), and draws benefits from the range of traits that deal with clone/phantasms anyway. Apart from appropriate CD shaves, its not too serious to address.

    phantasmal fury

    Unless it’s a direct buff, don’t touch this unless you want to die. Just kidding, but this trait is literally 1/5 of phantasms’ crit chance, why in the world would we want to delete that (unless more reworks to phantasms is warranted :trollface:)?

    we already have 3 traits in deparate traitlines for phantasm damage: empowered illusions (domi), phantasmal fury (dueling), phantasmal force (illusions).

    Unlike basic +dmg% traits, you’d need to resubstiute it’s functionality elsewhere since it turns phantasms from RNG dmg luck to reliable crit machines. It’s currently impossible to reach 100% crit chance on phantasms unless running full assassins Danger Time, in which I believe that trait is flawed since PvE dps chronos do like absolutely nothing to provide that slow. They’re all in appropriate spots since ez crit increasing traits can be randomly found in the ‘condi dmg’ traitline on some classes (Radiance, Firearms, Curses at the top of my head) and dmg increasing traits can be spread randomly across multiple trait lines (see Ele - Fire, Air, Arcane... even Water has one and Earth, but it’s pretty bad in comparison).

    Unless you mean to say, ‘thematically, Domi should increase dmg from the actual mesmer, and Illu should increase effectiveness of illusions,’ then I’d agree to some extent, otherwise please don’t mess around with my PvE stuff without asking nicely first :smile: it’s why this mes forum exists.

    Edit: whilst I’m still here, I can point out that the middle trait choices in Insp (sorry going back there again) currently don’t have a group supportive trait; I have sights set upon Protected Phantasms but would like to see whether people think the same first.

    Inspiration already has two utility traits so I dislike that.

    The old trait line and utility setup as you had described it was probably the most ideal setup before it changed. The problem is that healing using the spammable 1s CD of mantra of pain became a thing (which is really weird in my eyes) and that there was ‘some’ synergy between the distortion on signet activation and Inspiring Distortion (which got gutted heavily anyway) so the devs decided to put both traits into inspiration - the more ‘group support-ish’ trait line while the actual skills themselves had totally nothing to do with group support. On the contrary, glamours skills screamed group support all this time yet they decided to remove for what reasons? Beats me.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

    Personally, I don't agree. Illusions is quite powerful. Domination on the other hand is a messy pile of filler-trait. I also like Escape Artist much more than DD in Duelling.

    Considering that SoI per trait is gone, both, Signets or Mantras could possibly go into Domination even though raiders might disagree on Signets. Creating a new Mantra trait for Domination might be a less controversial solution. Regardless, Inspiration needs less utility traits.

    Phantasmal Fury is important for Sharper Images.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What's a glamour? :p

    /s

    Yeah would like to see a new glamour trait, whichever line it ends up in.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Since dueling is already strong, my top picks would probably be illusions (replace escape artist) or domination (replace rending shatter).

    Personally, I don't agree. Illusions is quite powerful. Domination on the other hand is a messy pile of filler-trait. I also like Escape Artist much more than DD in Duelling.

    Only powerful on condi, which is a non-issue, since this trait would compete with MoD. Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer. Domi isn't good but still decent for power mirage and used over illusions.

    Considering that SoI per trait is gone, both, Signets or Mantras could possibly go into Domination even though raiders might disagree on Signets. Creating a new Mantra trait for Domination might be a less controversial solution. Regardless, Inspiration needs less utility traits.

    While there is something to be said for the "obvious" distribution like signets-domi, mantras-dueling, and so on, I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something "unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge.

    Phantasmal Fury is important for Sharper Images.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2019

    More discussion points:

    • In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
    • If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
    • One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
    • Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
    • Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
    • Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer.

    Duelling sees so much play because it's versatile. It's power traits aren't event that good. It's just that Domination has too many aweful traits.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    ... I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something >"unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge...

    For me, personally, a fitting theme does influence my fun and immersion. So I'll politely disagree and be anal about it. <3

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    More discussion points:

    • In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
    • If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
    • One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
    • Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
    • Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
    • Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.
    • I'm all for individual improvements. I still prefer my suggestion. ;)
    • Damage to enemies is more of a Well-thing.
    • Stunbreak on Portal-Exit :3
    • Veil needs the Spectral Wall treatment and a CD shave.
    • Glamours aren't for mobility. If you want mobility, decrease Portal cooldown, but decrease range and number of ports as well.
  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Dueling is one of the strongest and most used lines for Mesmer.

    Duelling sees so much play because it's versatile. It's power traits aren't event that good. It's just that Domination has too many aweful traits.

    Dueling is very good. BD, EM, permafury, DE, Superiority Complex all very good. Domination has one good trait for PvP, shattered concentration, and the vuln gives decent extra damage, otherwise yesh it's not very good.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    ... I don't think we need to be so anal about how it needs to fit thematically and such. At the end of the day the point of the game is fun, and by doing something >"unexpected", then interesting and fun builds can possibly emerge...

    For me, personally, a fitting theme does influence my fun and immersion. So I'll politely disagree and be anal about it. <3

    I have to say I doubt that. If the glamour trait already was in the illusions line (for ex) since release, I doubt you would be here talking about how it breaks the immersion. It's not like it's a massive upheaval of the 'mesmer theme' to not put glamour trait in chaos/insp.

    Imo there isn't a strong case as to why they fit there at all aside from a single interaction with ether field + chaotic dampening but this interaction can still be used without putting a new glamour trait in chaos.
    Glamours are utility-focused and this works in any traitline on mesmer.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    More discussion points:

    • In my mind this trait should provide unique improvements to each skill, reason being that the skills differ so much in their usecase, e.g. portal won't benefit from the same things as null field. Either that or it should be general like reduced cd and +field duration.
    • If the trait is in domi/dueling/illusions, then it could be interesting to have some offensive support such as boon control or +dmg to enemy in the field.
    • One of the glamours should be a stunbreak, prob null field or feedback.
    • Veil should get massively reduced cd in PvP.
    • Alternative Mobility to blink, like superspeed or teleport on feedback cast? Idk.
    • Time Warp should get baseline reduced cd and duration (at least in PvP) to follow the general trend on other classes.
    • I'm all for individual improvements. I still prefer my suggestion. ;)

    Reason for my suggestion was to avoid the issue of the trait interacting badly with portal due to it being such a unique use-case utility. Your suggestion of chaos armour on glamour is useless for portal for example.

    • Damage to enemies is more of a Well-thing.

    Then why does the well trait provide healing? Because that is how traits work; +10% damage (as an example) to enemies inside feedback wouldn't be less reasonable than other suggestions (not saying this is a good trait effect, there are better ones, +dmg was just an example of how you can easily make glamour trait fit in a non-chaos/insp traitline).

    • Stunbreak on Portal-Exit :3

    Pretty useless, it is instant cast already.

    • Veil needs the Spectral Wall treatment and a CD shave.
    • Glamours aren't for mobility. If you want mobility, decrease Portal cooldown, but decrease range and number of ports as well.

    Signets are not for defense/damage mitigation, but trait still gives distortion. Glamours aren't for giving boons to allies either, which is basically what your suggestion does. They are for utility and giving superspeed can be called utility. Not saying it is a good idea even, just trying to come up with points of discussion to possibly make blink less mandatory (although that would probably require nerfs to blink which I'm sure would not get much support from mesmers in general). Also, my proposals (they weren't really suggestions) were made for the situation wherein the hypothetical trait gives different effects to each utility, so maybe either feedback, veil, or portal get superspeed while another gets resistance and yet another +dmg etc.

    You also mentioned moving mantras to domination, but 2/4 mantras are supportive.

    You say you like escape artist more than desperate decoy, which makes since desperate decoy is actively detrimental in many situations, but this doesn't change the fact that escape artist is a 150% completely terrible trait.

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    We clearly have different opinions :p . That's okay for me - we both got arguments which make them reasonable.

    Most traits you like and I dislike (and vice versa) probably come from our preferred playstyles.

    • As you said yourself, Domination isn't picked because it is bad. Not because Duelling so great. In the end, especially Superiority Complex isn't that much different than Mental Anguish. Domination isn't picked because the Minors and lower tier traits are so underwhelming and one-dimensional. Duelling on the otherhand has something for everyone.
    • If Glamours were in Illusions I would still be bothered. You could argue that the name fits but it clearly doesn't suit the other traits within the line. I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Plus, it doesn't matter to me wether we're discussing a status quo or theorycrafting. I want the game to be great and that involves challenging the status quo. My personal pick would be Chaos because it already has some form of area control and support.
    • Regarding Signets, those are a bad example, to be honest. Signets always face this dilemma because they do too many different things. That's no Mesmer issue. I also don't see how this affects my suggestion. Glamours are supportive. Chaos is about boons. If a Glamour trait were in Chaos, it would make sense. Now, if my proposed trait was in Domination, it wouldn't make sense at all, of course. You can dislike my suggestion. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that it's well thought-out and consistent.
    • SB on Portal isn't useless. It makes sense. It is not a real buff, I understand. ;) Blink will never become less appealing unless it is nerfed. It happens to be the perfect SB for Mesmers because it also offers mobility. The goal should be adding an option to Glamours. If you dislike SB on Portal Exit so much, then make it Portal Entry. Or even put it on Veil. Just slapping it on Feedback or Nullfield because the CDs are low, doesn't make much sense gameplay-wise.
    • My suggestion for a Glamour trait isn't useless for Portal. It could either work like in the past - where Confusion was cast upon casting Portal Exit - or when passing through the portal. It would be 'useless' for Veil, as long as it is a Light field. :'(
    • A damage buff on Feedback is something I'd enjoy and actually suggested in the past. Something that has been suggested before is pulsing Retaliation because it ties with the reflect as a melee counter. I might have misunderstood you there since you were talking about damage.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    You also mentioned moving mantras to domination, but 2/4 mantras are supportive.

    You say you like escape artist more than desperate decoy, which makes since desperate decoy is actively detrimental in many situations, but this doesn't change the fact that escape artist is a 150% completely terrible trait.

    Now, this is the point were I'm getting tired, to be honest.
    How does this aid your point of view? And what even is your point of view on Mantras? And how much does EA matter in this discussion? :#

    • 2 out of 4 Mantras are supportive. 2 out of 4 Mantras are offensive. Why I feel they could fit into Domination? Domination is associated with Dazes. MoD is a perfect match. MoP deals damage and provides Might. Yes, IB no longer does so - pitty, because that's a theme Domintion could be improved on - but Domination is still about overpowering your enemy. This is also where MoC could tie in. Is this the only place where it could fit? No. But it could fit. Feel free to share your thoughts.
    • Escape Artist is a nice alternative for generating Clones on a stealth heavy build. Is it an awesome trait? No. But it is active, has a reasonable niche and is just a Master trait after all. Design-wise it is miles better than DD which is just a glorified target drop you can't control.

    And wether you believe me or not - I do care about immersion and consistent themes - a lot.

  • Sodeni.6041Sodeni.6041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2019

    I'd like to see Eather Feast turned into a glamour with a different effect. Right now this heal skill is one of the most lackluster ones with no trait synergy.

    I'd also like to see Time Warp's duration being cut in halt but with a half as long cooldown as well. Or maybe a 2 ammunition skill with 5 seconds duration and 90 sec cooldown to make it worth using in PvP and solo PvE content.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    We clearly have different opinions :p . That's okay for me - we both got arguments which make them reasonable.

    Yeah :)

    Most traits you like and I dislike (and vice versa) probably come from our preferred playstyles.

    • As you said yourself, Domination isn't picked because it is bad. Not because Duelling so great.

    Domination IS picked, on power mirage. Of course it isn't picked on bunker chrono or condi mirage.

    In the end, especially Superiority Complex isn't that much different than Mental Anguish.

    It is numerically much better as long as you have a decent crit chance (which you do).

    Domination isn't picked because the Minors and lower tier traits are so underwhelming and one-dimensional. Duelling on the otherhand has something for everyone.

    See above, plus, I think it is fine if domination is focused on damage+boonrip+interrupt, but the traits have been nerfed so many times.

    • If Glamours were in Illusions I would still be bothered. You could argue that the name fits but it clearly doesn't suit the other traits within the line. I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing.

    "clearly". Ok nice opinion.

    Plus, it doesn't matter to me wether we're discussing a status quo or theorycrafting. I want the game to be great and that involves challenging the status quo.

    Don't know what this refers to / means.

    My personal pick would be Chaos because it already has some form of area control and support.

    It doesn't really have support. I get that if we take your suggestion it world syngergize with Descent into madness etc., but I all your suggestion leads to is permanent chaos armour around you, which isn't fun or interactive.

    • Regarding Signets, those are a bad example, to be honest.

    No, it is a good example. You said matter-of-factly "glamours aren't for mobility" and the signet trait shows you that Anet doesn't necessarily design traits that way. Also, if glamours aren't for mobility, what is portal in that case? Glamours aren't for giving boons/condis like your suggestion entails either, they are for utility.

    Signets always face this dilemma because they do too many different things. That's no Mesmer issue.

    Why is it not a mesmer issue, I thought we were talking about blurred inscriptions?

    I also don't see how this affects my suggestion. Glamours are supportive. Chaos is about boons. If a Glamour trait were in Chaos, it would make sense.

    Yeah, if glamour trait was in chaos your suggestion would make sense indeed, the problem is that I dislike both the idea of putting it in chaos and your suggestion.

    Now, if my proposed trait was in Domination, it wouldn't make sense at all, of course. You can dislike my suggestion. That's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that it's well thought-out and consistent.

    It sounds very anti-fun having to play vs a mesmer with basically permanent chaos armour. Where would you move manipulations trait if glamour is in chaos? Or do you want to have both in one line?

    • SB on Portal isn't useless. It makes sense. It is not a real buff, I understand. ;)

    Tell me why it isn't useless, portal exit is instant, has a gigantic cooldown, and is very rarely used during a stun anyway.

    Blink will never become less appealing unless it is nerfed. It happens to be the perfect SB for Mesmers because it also offers mobility.

    Yep.

    The goal should be adding an option to Glamours.

    What do you mean? For mobility? Was that not one of my suggestions? I think I'm misunderstanding you here.

    If you dislike SB on Portal Exit so much, then make it Portal Entry. Or even put it on Veil.

    Veil sure, portal entry would also be bad. Portal is used strategically, not on reaction, and it can be used in stun.

    Just slapping it on Feedback or Nullfield because the CDs are low, doesn't make much sense gameplay-wise.

    It is called Null-Field, nullifying cc even makes sense with the name. And even if it hadn't, sometimes gameplay is more important, for example back when anet removed stunbreak from elementalist cantrips like lightning flash and put them on other utilities to improve the number of viable utilities.

    • My suggestion for a Glamour trait isn't useless for Portal. It could either work like in the past - where Confusion was cast upon casting Portal Exit - or when passing through the portal. It would be 'useless' for Veil, as long as it is a Light field. :'(

    Sure, it would only be 95% useless for portal. You simply don't use portal in fight to do damage or put up a chaos armor. The old resistance trait was also almost usless for portal.

    • A damage buff on Feedback is something I'd enjoy and actually suggested in the past. Something that has been suggested before is pulsing Retaliation because it ties with the reflect as a melee counter. I might have misunderstood you there since you were talking about damage.

    It was mostly an off-the-cuff example, but could work. Anet will have to come up with something themselves.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    You also mentioned moving mantras to domination, but 2/4 mantras are supportive.

    You say you like escape artist more than desperate decoy, which makes since desperate decoy is actively detrimental in many situations, but this doesn't change the fact that escape artist is a 150% completely terrible trait.

    Now, this is the point were I'm getting tired, to be honest.
    How does this aid your point of view? And what even is your point of view on Mantras? And how much does EA matter in this discussion? :#

    I just answered you, you said mantras could be moved to domination, and I point out that they are two of mesmer's most supportive utilities. In the past this could be solved by having multiple traits for the same utility category, now it is standard to fit the trait after the traitline theme instead. Mantras can fit in multiple traitlines and so can glamours.

    • 2 out of 4 Mantras are supportive. 2 out of 4 Mantras are offensive. Why I feel they could fit into Domination? Domination is associated with Dazes. MoD is a perfect match. MoP deals damage and provides Might. Yes, IB no longer does so - pitty, because that's a theme Domintion could be improved on - but Domination is still about overpowering your enemy. This is also where MoC could tie in. Is this the only place where it could fit? No. But it could fit. Feel free to share your thoughts.

    MoD fits domination, MoP I would say dueling personally, MoC inspiration, MoR chaos. Might has mostly been a thing for illusions rather than domination. Either way doesn't matter.

    • Escape Artist is a nice alternative for generating Clones on a stealth heavy build. Is it an awesome trait? No. But it is active, has a reasonable niche and is just a Master trait after all. Design-wise it is miles better than DD which is just a glorified target drop you can't control.

    I like that it is active, and it is definitely more fun than DD. But in effectiveness it is a joke. Maybe it would be a bit better if it gave you the clone when stealth ended instead.

    And wether you believe me or not - I do care about immersion and consistent themes - a lot.

    I might also if it was a clear-cut issue that it fits better in a particular line, but it isn't, same as where to put mantra trait, manipulation trait, and so forth isn't clear-cut.

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I'd like to see Eather Feast turned into a glamour with a different effect. Right now this heal skill is one of the most lackluster ones with no trait synergy.

    I'd like it being an Illusion skill. B)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Domination IS picked, on power mirage. Of course it isn't picked on bunker chrono or condi mirage.
    [...]
    It is numerically much better as long as you have a decent crit chance (which you do).

    That's not where the argument came from.
    You argued that Duelling is more prominent. I argued that it's not because Duelling is so great but because Domination is aweful.

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    • Regarding Signets, those are a bad example, to be honest.

    No, it is a good example. You said matter-of-factly "glamours aren't for mobility" and the signet trait shows you that Anet doesn't necessarily design traits that way. Also, if glamours aren't for mobility, what is portal in that case? Glamours aren't for giving boons/condis like your suggestion entails either, they are for utility.
    [...]
    I just answered you, you said mantras could be moved to domination, and I point out that they are two of mesmer's most supportive utilities. In the past this could be solved by having multiple traits for the same utility category, now it is standard to fit the trait after the traitline theme instead. Mantras can fit in multiple traitlines and so can glamours.

    No, they don't necessarily. But they do, most of the time. Signets are exceptions on most classes because their innate purpose is so diverse. A majority of utility groups however are clearly designed for a specific playstyle and usually traits improve on this. You will find very few utility groups which don't follow this design approach.

    Just to clarify: I'm not arguing against a trait having different effects for each utility it affects. I'm fine with that. But I dislike traits which turn utilities into something that deviates too far from their original purpose or even contradicts it. This also applies to Blurred Inscriptions. If this trait didn't exist, nobody would perceive them as defensive skills. Distortions probably suits Manipulation skills way better than Signets.

    Yes, Mantras could fit into different traitlines. Domination was just an example. I strongly disagree on your assessment where Glamours could fit even if they didn't provide boons. They have a very distinctive theme - stationary mostly supportive and ethereal area effects - which heavily favours Chaos (Chaotic Dampening, Descent into Madness) over Domination or Illusions.

    I could see someone arguing for Inspiration. But you didn't do that, didn't you? ;)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    It sounds very anti-fun having to play vs a mesmer with basically permanent chaos armour. Where would you move manipulations trait if glamour is in chaos? Or do you want to have both in one line?
    [...]
    Tell me why it isn't useless, portal exit is instant, has a gigantic cooldown, and is very rarely used during a stun anyway.
    [...]
    It is called Null-Field, nullifying cc even makes sense with the name. And even if it hadn't, sometimes gameplay is more important, for example back when anet removed stunbreak from elementalist cantrips like lightning flash and put them on other utilities to improve the number of viable utilities.

    Mesmers can already maintain a very high amount of Chaos Armor. That's why it has been nerfed in the past. But it's self-only. Group CA would open up more support builds - even outside of Chronomancer - but be less problematic than the old BD because it is more restrictive.

    For Portal I suggested lowering the overall CD at the same time (and nerfing other aspects at the same time) to make it more usable in-combat. It would lose strategic value in WvW. But it would be way more fun in most other scenarios. Nobody fancies being a port bot and I personally wouldn't miss it at all. On the contrary... You'd actually need more Mesmers in WvW by default.

    Point taken on Null-Field. Cantrips are a totally different topic, though, considering they still got Mist Form.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    I might also if it was a clear-cut issue that it fits better in a particular line, but it isn't, same as where to put mantra trait, manipulation trait, and so forth isn't clear-cut.

    This is indeed an issue. But why make it worse?

    ANet clearly ran out of ideas - or time, who knows - when it came to the last big trait rework. They should have never placed four (until they removed Temporal Enchanter) utility traits into one traitline. It's insanity. That's why Inspiration feels so cluttered and it's already pretty important because of the condition removal it brings. The thing is, that there is no easy fix to this. As we have seen ourselves by our discussion: Many skills could go into different places. There is no single right solution. The important thing is to have an overall vision for all of them and not to change them individually. I just strongly disagree on Glamours being placed in anything but Chaos or Inspiration.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Sodeni.6041 said:
    I'd like to see Eather Feast turned into a glamour with a different effect. Right now this heal skill is one of the most lackluster ones with no trait synergy.

    I'd like it being an Illusion skill. B)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Domination IS picked, on power mirage. Of course it isn't picked on bunker chrono or condi mirage.
    [...]
    It is numerically much better as long as you have a decent crit chance (which you do).

    That's not where the argument came from.
    You argued that Duelling is more prominent. I argued that it's not because Duelling is so great but because Domination is aweful.

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    • Regarding Signets, those are a bad example, to be honest.

    No, it is a good example. You said matter-of-factly "glamours aren't for mobility" and the signet trait shows you that Anet doesn't necessarily design traits that way. Also, if glamours aren't for mobility, what is portal in that case? Glamours aren't for giving boons/condis like your suggestion entails either, they are for utility.
    [...]
    I just answered you, you said mantras could be moved to domination, and I point out that they are two of mesmer's most supportive utilities. In the past this could be solved by having multiple traits for the same utility category, now it is standard to fit the trait after the traitline theme instead. Mantras can fit in multiple traitlines and so can glamours.

    No, they don't necessarily. But they do, most of the time. Signets are exceptions on most classes because their innate purpose is so diverse. A majority of utility groups however are clearly designed for a specific playstyle and usually traits improve on this. You will find very few utility groups which don't follow this design approach.

    Just to clarify: I'm not arguing against a trait having different effects for each utility it affects. I'm fine with that. But I dislike traits which turn utilities into something that deviates too far from their original purpose or even contradicts it. This also applies to Blurred Inscriptions. If this trait didn't exist, nobody would perceive them as defensive skills. Distortions probably suits Manipulation skills way better than Signets.

    Yes, Mantras could fit into different traitlines. Domination was just an example. I strongly disagree on your assessment where Glamours could fit even if they didn't provide boons. They have a very distinctive theme - stationary mostly supportive and ethereal area effects - which heavily favours Chaos (Chaotic Dampening, Descent into Madness) over Domination or Illusions.

    I could see someone arguing for Inspiration. But you didn't do that, didn't you? ;)

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    It sounds very anti-fun having to play vs a mesmer with basically permanent chaos armour. Where would you move manipulations trait if glamour is in chaos? Or do you want to have both in one line?
    [...]
    Tell me why it isn't useless, portal exit is instant, has a gigantic cooldown, and is very rarely used during a stun anyway.
    [...]
    It is called Null-Field, nullifying cc even makes sense with the name. And even if it hadn't, sometimes gameplay is more important, for example back when anet removed stunbreak from elementalist cantrips like lightning flash and put them on other utilities to improve the number of viable utilities.

    Mesmers can already maintain a very high amount of Chaos Armor. That's why it has been nerfed in the past. But it's self-only. Group CA would open up more support builds - even outside of Chronomancer - but be less problematic than the old BD because it is more restrictive.

    For Portal I suggested lowering the overall CD at the same time (and nerfing other aspects at the same time) to make it more usable in-combat. It would lose strategic value in WvW. But it would be way more fun in most other scenarios. Nobody fancies being a port bot and I personally wouldn't miss it at all. On the contrary... You'd actually need more Mesmers in WvW by default.

    Point taken on Null-Field. Cantrips are a totally different topic, though, considering they still got Mist Form.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    I might also if it was a clear-cut issue that it fits better in a particular line, but it isn't, same as where to put mantra trait, manipulation trait, and so forth isn't clear-cut.

    This is indeed an issue. But why make it worse?

    ANet clearly ran out of ideas - or time, who knows - when it came to the last big trait rework. They should have never placed four (until they removed Temporal Enchanter) utility traits into one traitline. It's insanity. That's why Inspiration feels so cluttered and it's already pretty important because of the condition removal it brings. The thing is, that there is no easy fix to this. As we have seen ourselves by our discussion: Many skills could go into different places. There is no single right solution. The important thing is to have an overall vision for all of them and not to change them individually. I just strongly disagree on Glamours being placed in anything but Chaos or Inspiration.

    The point (which is sort of why mantras and signets were brought up) is that the nature of the trait oftentimes depends on the traitline it is in, rather than which utilities it modifies. For example the mantra trait gives healing because it is in inspiration. In the same way, glamours can, with a bit of effort, basically fit in any traitline.

    Will prob. edit this comment and add more later.

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    The point (which is sort of why mantras and signets were brought up) is that the nature of the trait oftentimes depends on the traitline it is in, rather than which utilities it modifies. For example the mantra trait gives healing because it is in inspiration. In the same way, glamours can, with a bit of effort, basically fit in any traitline.

    Is H2H about boons because it's in Alchemy, or is it about boons because Elixirs are about boons and it is therefore placed in Alchemy?

    Fact is: A majority of traits cater the core theme of their utilities. Not all, sure. But why bend over backwards if there are obvious options?

    Let's play a thought-game =)

    Where would you place a utility trait if there was only one allowed per traitline?

    • Domination - Signets
    • Duelling - Manipulations
    • Chaos - Glamours
    • Inspiration - Mantras
    • Illusions - None (Illusions)
  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Until the castle rises above the clouds.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe next patch glamour will recover some traits interactions ?

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    I always found the old trait a bit boring, but I do hope some Glamour interaction will come back.

    What about this: Replaces Auspicious Anguish in Chaos or Medic's Feedback or Restorative Mantras in Inspiration. Some ideas:

    All Glamour skills last 50% longer and (periodically) grant allies in their area of effect Light Armor and/or Chaos Amor and/or Stability.

    Increases the cast range and radius of all Glamour skills by 50% (longer portal range, bigger bubbles, pretty worthless for the Veil though) and using a Glamour creates a clone.

    Glamour skills can now be reactivated to detonate them, blinding and confusing nearby enemies and granting allies their combo field buff (Chaos armor or Light Armor).

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    What about this: Replaces Auspicious Anguish in Chaos or Medic's Feedback or Restorative Mantras in Inspiration. Some ideas:

    Glamours doesnt fit to chaos. Restorative mantras is meh trait but its the only mantra trait. Why remove medic feedback if they can merge some trait in there for glamours?(its also gives revive speed increase). Better to remove useless defender phantasm on 50s cd, makes way more sense, less passive auto procs and its not worth even for GM trait. Like this aeigs on phantasms is also bad trait, why its even exist. In illusions "escape artist" ... they should fire the guy who made this trait immediately. Just like this who made POWER WRENCH(obviously that was biased anet dev who main the engi) to class with perma vigor and enchanced endurance gain as adept trait, while EA is master.
    About your ideas idk, better than nothing I guess?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    didn't the really old glamour trait proc confusion on an enemy when they crossed its threshold, unlimited targets? I remember seeing some wvw videos of glamours hitting a ton of people and doing a ton of damage. man it would be sweet to have that back as well as mistrust. anyone have a link to those old wvw videos? would be much appreciated.

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    What about this: Replaces Auspicious Anguish in Chaos or Medic's Feedback or Restorative Mantras in Inspiration. Some ideas:

    Glamours doesnt fit to chaos. Restorative mantras is meh trait but its the only mantra trait. Why remove medic feedback if they can merge some trait in there for glamours?(its also gives revive speed increase). Better to remove useless defender phantasm on 50s cd, makes way more sense, less passive auto procs and its not worth even for GM trait. Like this aeigs on phantasms is also bad trait, why its even exist. In illusions "escape artist" ... they should fire the guy who made this trait immediately. Just like this who made POWER WRENCH(obviously that was biased anet dev who main the engi) to class with perma vigor and enchanced endurance gain as adept trait, while EA is master.
    About your ideas idk, better than nothing I guess?

    The 50s cd Phantasm is a grandmaster, though, so we'd have to move some stuff around. I really don't like Mental Defense either, especially because it's absolutely useless due to its long CD and more or less "random" proc, but skill enhancements probably shouldn't be grandmaster traits either.

    One of the issues with the Glamours currently is that they are only usable in fringe scenarios in PvE (like Matthias, Dungeon Skips, Porting ppl around JPs) and in WvW (Veil especially), and that the Portal is part of them. They don't really have anything in common, except that 3 of them look like bubbles, and ever since Portal was gutted in PvP it's not used that much anymore. Dunno, after sleeping on it I kinda like the "explosion" effect.

    But I agree, that there's a lot of worthless skills in the Mesmer trees.

  • Mikkel.8427Mikkel.8427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    I'd like to see the new glamour trait put where Master of Manipulation is in the Chaos tree. Then move Master of Manipulation to the Dueling tree.

    Potent Glamours-
    Allies affected by your glamours are stealthed.
    1 sec of stealth
    Glamour cooldowns reduced by 20%

    For veil it would be an additional 1 sec per crossing.
    Portal 1 sec on portal interaction. Provides some cover on Portal use to get your bearings (super sneaky Portal bombs in WvW!).
    Feedback and nullfield would pulse 1 sec steath to allies inside. Cool synergy with medic's feedback!

  • I do miss the Glamour trait, seemed so fitting with Mesmer in general. Having it back as reduction to cooldown and maybe adding some random boons or conditions to enemies per tick/pass through would be pretty awesome (max number for pass throughs). Mesmers used to have boon share builds, but pretty much cannot do that anymore, bringing that back would be fun.

    Additional stealth would not ever be appreciated by the masses, PvPers and WvW duelists would be up in arms about that for sure.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.