Living World Access To New Players - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Living World Access To New Players

2

Comments

  • Cisaro.3169Cisaro.3169 Member ✭✭

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    And it is actually pretty attainable: currently the exchange is like 37 gold for 100 gems. Thats about two days of gold farming (if you know what to do) per episode. And if you buy the pack its a bit less. By the time you finish HoT you should pretty much know everything you need to farm gold efficiently.

    Expecting new players to gold farm after playing content so they can go back and play content to give the content they've just played context is a ludicrously inelegant solution

    Not really if gold farming includes actually playing the content you already have access to.

    ". Going completely conservatively and just doing SW farming , which is easy to do, its sth like 4 hours a day. And this reduces a lot if you are skillful in the game and know how to do fast t4 runs and dungeons runs or raid full clears. And you can mix by adding istan and HoT metas for some variety."

    • I think you proved my point about expecting new players to gold farm is silly. Not to mention it's terrible game design.
  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    Agree totally with the fact that they could have told people upfront that there is OPTIONAL content that does not come with the purchase you just made.

  • Cisaro.3169Cisaro.3169 Member ✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    A MMO is supposed make new players feel welcome in various ways, in order to "hook" them, especially if it's an aging one. Throwing a bunch of narrative paywalls on them, is not my idea of welcome.

    How would you change things, without hurting ANet's bottom line?

    • Charge more for the expansions?
    • Charge veterans for the Living World too?
    • Charge a subscription and include the episode as part of that?

    There aren't all that many alternatives and each alienates someone.

    • I think I've already said this - it's not a cash issue it's visibility on content issue. Just tell me upfront or increase the price and throw it all in so there are no surprises.
  • Deimos.4263Deimos.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    The issue is in the presentation. You're experiencing sticker shock because you thought you had it all, but you didn't, and now there's something else you need to buy for the full experience.

    I believe some of the expansion options offer gems along with the purchase price; if you chose one of those options you can purchase the LW stories with those gems. But an "everything" option up front would be good.

  • Cisaro.3169Cisaro.3169 Member ✭✭

    @Blude.6812 said:
    You want them, buy them. Simple.

    • I didn't know I wanted them because I didn't know about them - that's the issue. I'm not begging for LS content for free, I'm letting them know my CX was poor because they didn't give me visibility on what I should buy upfront.

    There are a lot of responses from people that either hasn't read the post properly or haven't got the point I was trying to make, if that's the latter it's my issue and I'll improve the original post. Your comment, however, is completely unhelpful but thank you for your time.

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    I think most confusion is cause originally it is given for free to existing players as a thank you for the loyalty. I have played from launch and have an investment that is considerably higher then someone who starts now with the game
    The original game: 60 euro/USD
    Heart of Thorns: 50 euro/USD
    Path of Fire: 30 euro/USD
    Total: 140 euro/USD

    Currently, when buying all this you pay:
    The original game: free to play
    Heart of Thorns: 20 euro/USD (when bundled with Path of Fire) *
    Path of Fire: 30 euro/USD *
    Living world season 2: 19 euro/USD**
    Living world season 3: 12,50 euro/USD**
    Living world season 4: 600 gems = 7,50 euro/USD **+***
    Total: 89 euro/USD or 50 euro and a some farming in game.

    *Often these go for a 50% sale, so if you wait a bit, it is extra cheap
    **can be bought with gold in game, it can be farmed bit by bit
    *** there are 5 episodes so far. The last one is for free for new and existing players. The second is currently also for free. This price is aimed for that you missed last week give-away for episode one and IF they do not continue in the next two weeks to give away episode 3 and 4 for free as well

    My point is that you get things allready a lot more cheaper.
    However! and this is a big however. I think your point should not be that you should get it for free, but that you should be told about it more clearly. This is a puzzle with many MMO's. I once looked into buying WoW and it is also very unclear what you need to buy. I think marketing could and should solve this by selling bundled packages instead of stackable packages.

    • Again my complaint has nothing to do with price - please read my post carefully, you're arguing against a point I've not made.

    You are not really reading what I was saying. The discussion is often about price and why new players do not get the same benefits of existing players (the living world for free). I am argueing that the price is reasonable lower compared to that of existing players, but the problem exist in the way it is presented and bundled. So We actually agree there. the overview over the prices then and now is to illustrate it is not about the money, but about the presentation of the bundle (to which I agree, this scould be done better

  • @Cisaro.3169 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    A MMO is supposed make new players feel welcome in various ways, in order to "hook" them, especially if it's an aging one. Throwing a bunch of narrative paywalls on them, is not my idea of welcome.

    How would you change things, without hurting ANet's bottom line?

    • Charge more for the expansions?
    • Charge veterans for the Living World too?
    • Charge a subscription and include the episode as part of that?

    There aren't all that many alternatives and each alienates someone.

    • I think I've already said this - it's not a cash issue it's visibility on content issue. Just tell me upfront or increase the price and throw it all in so there are no surprises.

    Yes, I think there's widespread agreement that the presentation is poor. I'm not even sure that anyone disagrees strongly with that.

    What appears to have happened is that the thread's title, "Living World Access To New Players," gave the impression it's an accessibility issue, throwing the discussion in a different direction. The post to which I responded called it a paywall problem, which is why I mentioned costs.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Two interesting ideas which I'd like to call out:

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    I'd make LS more like spin-off side stories so players without them wouldn't be left with narrative gaps.

    It's too late in their planning cycle for LS5 to work that way and perhaps even for LS6; it might be soon enough for LS7 (or the expac that some hope for).

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    add 1 episode with the expansion so you have kind of a lure,

    This is something ANet could do today.

    On the other hand, ANet would probably argue that (a) there are already plenty of lures to purchase LS episodes, (b) the are already connected in lore, and (c) they have to draw the line somewhere, so why not at the start of the season instead of after the first chapter.

    Worth thinking about, even though I expect ANet's already considered both and decided against.

    in contrary, there is to little in-game lure nor any lore to answer a really small but important question, why should i buy the expansion when i see no reason too?
    the LS adds lore and anyone already owning the LS episodes know why they should buy the expansions, anyone who doesn't knows nothing so have no reason to buy them.

    i own all of it because i have bin playing 7 years ago, new players know nothing and should be expecting to wonder about allot of things.
    GW2 is horrible at connecting events and at letting ppl know what they missed, a link to wikipedia pages and making video's about them is the lamest thing anyone can ever do.
    it doesn't teach anything but how bare this game really is, there is absolutely nothing in-game that tells me what happened.

    leaving out the LS for new players is already a horrible idea, not adding crucial LS episodes out of an expansion pack is like simply ripping out the first1/3 pages out of a book.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    And it is actually pretty attainable: currently the exchange is like 37 gold for 100 gems. Thats about two days of gold farming (if you know what to do) per episode. And if you buy the pack its a bit less. By the time you finish HoT you should pretty much know everything you need to farm gold efficiently.

    Expecting new players to gold farm after playing content so they can go back and play content to give the content they've just played context is a ludicrously inelegant solution

    Not really if gold farming includes actually playing the content you already have access to.

    ". Going completely conservatively and just doing SW farming , which is easy to do, its sth like 4 hours a day. And this reduces a lot if you are skillful in the game and know how to do fast t4 runs and dungeons runs or raid full clears. And you can mix by adding istan and HoT metas for some variety."

    • I think you proved my point about expecting new players to gold farm is silly. Not to mention it's terrible game design.

    I have no idea why you think this proves your point. It is silly and bad game design to allow players that already reached level cap to buy non-free DLC content with in game money with 8 hours of farming? And to reduce this time if you actually have knowledge of the game? And all this by doing activities that actually count as playing the game they already have access to?

  • Kouki.5260Kouki.5260 Member
    edited August 20, 2019

    It is pretty unfair to new players. and returning players that missed out.
    For older players that missed it, I see the argument that it should be a form of punishment for not being active, but you don't know if that could be due to anything from loss of interest, to school, work, hospitalization, etc... I think it is a pretty judgemental and exclusive mindset that doesn't consider how those players and new players alike feel.

    Especially if you did pay the money to buy the expansions which the story seems to continue off from the Living World referring to NPCs and stuff (for me, I ended up having to tune out most of the story of both HOT and POF due to being lost). It wouldn't be much problem if they did include it with the expansions, or had a pack with all the story combined, then it wouldn't have felt unfair or like an incomplete product that you bought.

    I have no idea who these NPCs are, but I didn't have much choice since I really really wanted a glider and the mounts to help with the core PvE exploration of the world and core story. There is that huge gap of missed story because either someone doesn't feel it is fair (the game doesn't exactly advertise that you must buy parts of the story), or because they can't easily afford it.
    I've played for years and still don't have enough gold, either. I'm a casual player so for me it seems impossible since I also need gold for updating equipment and can't grind endlessly without getting tired of a game.

    But yeah, overall, the problem is less about the price and more about the fact that it's like a "hidden fee" they don't tell you about when you start the game or returned to the game if you played before LS and came back after. You can't fully enjoy the product (expansions) you paid real money for to the fullest potential that it was intended to be enjoyed, because to do so required to play LS, which cost money or required you to be there at the exact time to be lucky and get it free.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kouki.5260 said:
    It is pretty unfair to new players. and returning players that missed out.
    For older players that missed it, I see the argument that it should be a form of punishment for not being active,

    You've got this the wrong way around. GW2 isn't punishing anyone by removing DLC access. Unlike other games though, it does give those that play longer/more regularly a bonus in the form of free DLC access. If you miss out on the free bonus that's unfortunate, but even then the episodes aren't that expensive if you compare them to DLC prices of similar games.

  • Algreg.3629Algreg.3629 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    And it is actually pretty attainable: currently the exchange is like 37 gold for 100 gems. Thats about two days of gold farming (if you know what to do) per episode. And if you buy the pack its a bit less. By the time you finish HoT you should pretty much know everything you need to farm gold efficiently.

    Expecting new players to gold farm after playing content so they can go back and play content to give the content they've just played context is a ludicrously inelegant solution

    Not really if gold farming includes actually playing the content you already have access to.

    ". Going completely conservatively and just doing SW farming , which is easy to do, its sth like 4 hours a day. And this reduces a lot if you are skillful in the game and know how to do fast t4 runs and dungeons runs or raid full clears. And you can mix by adding istan and HoT metas for some variety."

    • I think you proved my point about expecting new players to gold farm is silly. Not to mention it's terrible game design.

    in that case there is bad news for you. GW2 is all about farming for gold or materials. E.g. the narrative part of a living story episode is easily played through in 1 or 2 short evenings, then it is weeks again farming maps for some irrelevant skin or achievement. It is not completely without appeal, but in GW2 you don´t go on adventures, you scrounge the majority of your time. Relaxing, sometimes entertaining, rarely exciting.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Cisaro.3169 said:

    And it is actually pretty attainable: currently the exchange is like 37 gold for 100 gems. Thats about two days of gold farming (if you know what to do) per episode. And if you buy the pack its a bit less. By the time you finish HoT you should pretty much know everything you need to farm gold efficiently.

    Expecting new players to gold farm after playing content so they can go back and play content to give the content they've just played context is a ludicrously inelegant solution

    Not really if gold farming includes actually playing the content you already have access to.

    ". Going completely conservatively and just doing SW farming , which is easy to do, its sth like 4 hours a day. And this reduces a lot if you are skillful in the game and know how to do fast t4 runs and dungeons runs or raid full clears. And you can mix by adding istan and HoT metas for some variety."

    • I think you proved my point about expecting new players to gold farm is silly. Not to mention it's terrible game design.

    in that case there is bad news for you. GW2 is all about farming for gold or materials. E.g. the narrative part of a living story episode is easily played through in 1 or 2 short evenings, then it is weeks again farming maps for some irrelevant skin or achievement. It is not completely without appeal, but in GW2 you don´t go on adventures, you scrounge the majority of your time. Relaxing, sometimes entertaining, rarely exciting.

    That may be your way of playing this game, but I can assure you that it's not universal :) .

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Kouki.5260 said:
    But yeah, overall, the problem is less about the price and more about the fact that it's like a "hidden fee" they don't tell you about when you start the game or returned to the game if you played before LS and came back after. You can't fully enjoy the product (expansions) you paid real money for to the fullest potential that it was intended to be enjoyed, because to do so required to play LS, which cost money or required you to be there at the exact time to be lucky and get it free.

    Then i have some good news to you. Although it won't be fixed retroactively, that problem is going to disappear for all future content, because there don't seem to be any plans for new expansions anymore. It will be only LS now. So, no conflict like this will appear again.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:
    in that case there is bad news for you. GW2 is all about farming for gold or materials. E.g. the narrative part of a living story episode is easily played through in 1 or 2 short evenings, then it is weeks again farming maps for some irrelevant skin or achievement. It is not completely without appeal, but in GW2 you don´t go on adventures, you scrounge the majority of your time. Relaxing, sometimes entertaining, rarely exciting.

    Really? Because I play GW2 for the fact that I don't have to farm at all. Almost all content PVE and PVP is accessible.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    When I first got into the game I encountered this. It greatly effected my experience. When I bought HoT the website advertised it as unlocking all content related to HoT. That is an implication that I would get the full Living World 3 season. Since I complained it was removed from the site, but they still do not address Living World at all as needing further purchases for all the content.

    Any arguments of "you can buy them with gold" will be disregarded.

    Anet needs to be outright clear that buying the expansions is NOT the full game. Besides, Living World shouldn't be charged anyways since what makes them the real money is the repeat purchases in the Gem store. If selling LW chapters for Gems was really that important, they wouldn't be giving them away to anyone.

    If anything, a current season should be unlocked in full if you are active during it at all. Missed full seasons can be sold. I was fine with purchasing Season 2.

    tl;dr
    I am actually a bit burned, because when I bought HoT it informed me that I would get all content involving it. Only to find that I had to pay another fee anyways. Anet fixed the purchase page, but I still got burned by Anet being really poor at word choice.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Path of Fire: 30 euro
    Heart of Thorns: 30 euro
    Season 2: 1280 gems
    Season 3: 960 gems
    Season 4: 960 (most likely) gems
    Total 3200 gems

    You can either buy 2800 gems for 35 euro or 4000 gems for 50 euro, no option for 3200 gems
    This means you'd need to pay 110 euro to have access to everything in the game when you begin playing, and have some left over gems for a single outfit or a gathering tool.

    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    Maybe, just maybe, they want to rethink this strategy and that's why they didn't announce an expansion, but LS 5.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    When I first got into the game I encountered this. It greatly effected my experience. When I bought HoT the website advertised it as unlocking all content related to HoT. That is an implication that I would get the full Living World 3 season. Since I complained it was removed from the site, but they still do not address Living World at all as needing further purchases for all the content.

    Any arguments of "you can buy them with gold" will be disregarded.

    Anet needs to be outright clear that buying the expansions is NOT the full game. Besides, Living World shouldn't be charged anyways since what makes them the real money is the repeat purchases in the Gem store. If selling LW chapters for Gems was really that important, they wouldn't be giving them away to anyone.

    If anything, a current season should be unlocked in full if you are active during it at all. Missed full seasons can be sold. I was fine with purchasing Season 2.

    tl;dr
    I am actually a bit burned, because when I bought HoT it informed me that I would get all content involving it. Only to find that I had to pay another fee anyways. Anet fixed the purchase page, but I still got burned by Anet being really poor at word choice.

    Buying Skyrim doesn’t entitle me to the DLC content. Buying ESO, and it’s expansions, doesn’t entitle me to the DLC maps. Unless it’s specifically mentioned that the Living Story seasons would be included, it’s the players’ fault for making that assumption and not researching what they’re buying beforehand.

    Tl;dr Living Story seasons require an expansion (except LS2) but they are not part of the expansion.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    When I first got into the game I encountered this. It greatly effected my experience. When I bought HoT the website advertised it as unlocking all content related to HoT. That is an implication that I would get the full Living World 3 season. Since I complained it was removed from the site, but they still do not address Living World at all as needing further purchases for all the content.

    Any arguments of "you can buy them with gold" will be disregarded.

    Anet needs to be outright clear that buying the expansions is NOT the full game. Besides, Living World shouldn't be charged anyways since what makes them the real money is the repeat purchases in the Gem store. If selling LW chapters for Gems was really that important, they wouldn't be giving them away to anyone.

    If anything, a current season should be unlocked in full if you are active during it at all. Missed full seasons can be sold. I was fine with purchasing Season 2.

    tl;dr
    I am actually a bit burned, because when I bought HoT it informed me that I would get all content involving it. Only to find that I had to pay another fee anyways. Anet fixed the purchase page, but I still got burned by Anet being really poor at word choice.

    You did get every content involving heart of thorns.
    Season 3 is content that happens after heart of thorns leading up to path of fire so inbettwen the 2 expansions.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Path of Fire: 30 euro
    Heart of Thorns: 30 euro
    Season 2: 1280 gems
    Season 3: 960 gems
    Season 4: 960 (most likely) gems
    Total 3200 gems

    You can either buy 2800 gems for 35 euro or 4000 gems for 50 euro, no option for 3200 gems
    This means you'd need to pay 110 euro to have access to everything in the game when you begin playing, and have some left over gems for a single outfit or a gathering tool.

    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    Maybe, just maybe, they want to rethink this strategy and that's why they didn't announce an expansion, but LS 5.

    Well you can get it cheaper than that but not much.
    Path of fire ultimate 79.99 euro added hot 20 euro that inludes 4k gems in the ultimate so 99.99 in total.

  • Disregarded or not, it is still possible to acquire Living World Seasons via playing the game. Not to mention the times ArenaNet has given away previous Episodes to those that missed out.

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Agreed, it's high time for at least a great deal on LW content for new players.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Agreed, it's high time for at least a great deal on LW content for new players.

    What reasonable business reason would there be for ANet to do this?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:
    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    You can start for free.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    Well ... other games with more expansions are even more expensive. For example WoW. While they seem to have a complete collection which is cheap compared to full prices for each expansion ... old players probably had to buy all the exansions when they came out. Plus the subscriptoin fee. New players have to pay subscription (after free month) as well.

    So I wouldn't say GW2 is expensive. They seem to have higher overall cost with expansions staying at a higher price (probably even with more expansiosn coming out later) ... then again you can start for free and you don't need to pay a subscription.

    In fact it makes sense. And I like to play it in order of release. I have my old paid account without expansions back then from relaese and after a long break I'll continue with season 2 first (should it go on sale - i hope soon) then HoT. (Even though some people recommend getting PoF first then going quickly for first mount for convenience.) So I can have the story in order and won't have too much content at once. (First doing some maps of the first expansion. Then the next one.)

    And not forced to buy both at the same time. (Even though it seems a lil bit cheaper if you buy the package with both.)

    Edit: In the calculation example above: Let's say you buy 2800 gems for real money. Trade the remaining ones for gold or get 400 from a achievement chest every 5k. Since you don't need everything at the start you don't need to play all the money at once. I have about 13000 AP just from core game which I played from release until end 2013. Then break and back to GW2 in June 2019. Requires you to do a lot of different stuff though. I guess 5k should not be that hard since personal story and stuff ... first completion they give AP. Later it gets more limited (dailies until reaching cap and some harder/grindier stuff until I get expansions and map related stuff on new maps which gives a new set of easy to obtain AP).

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    As someone that has gotten nearly all of the LW seasons for free since S2, and has friends that would now like to jump into the story and buying the expansions...I agree it would be really nice if they could communicate this better. Why not make bundles that lump LW3 with HoT and LW4 with PoF? Or at the very least make it obvious there's more between the expansions you need to buy. Would like my friends to enjoy playing more of the game, not be frustrated by it.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Cisaro.3169 said:
    PS. Why can't I use abilities while jumping? It would be fun.

    What do you mean? You can trigger any skill while jumping. Some will take extra coordination, though, that's true, and some might not trigger correctly, like ground target skills.

  • broFenix.1632broFenix.1632 Member ✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    As someone that has gotten nearly all of the LW seasons for free since S2, and has friends that would now like to jump into the story and buying the expansions...I agree it would be really nice if they could communicate this better. Why not make bundles that lump LW3 with HoT and LW4 with PoF? Or at the very least make it obvious there's more between the expansions you need to buy. Would like my friends to enjoy playing more of the game, not be frustrated by it.

    They do include bundles as you can add them when purchasing the expansions.

    @broFenix.1632 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2019

    my first years in gw2 was very chill, i basically explore the world. after 1 or 2 years i bought LS2, most for luminescent armor, that is tied to some LS2 chapters.
    remembering that unlike other living worlds, you have access to LS2 maps with Core-game only, i mean the silverwastes the most important farm map.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    As someone that has gotten nearly all of the LW seasons for free since S2, and has friends that would now like to jump into the story and buying the expansions...I agree it would be really nice if they could communicate this better. Why not make bundles that lump LW3 with HoT and LW4 with PoF? Or at the very least make it obvious there's more between the expansions you need to buy. Would like my friends to enjoy playing more of the game, not be frustrated by it.

    They do include bundles as you can add them when purchasing the expansions.

    @broFenix.1632 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    Just clicked through the checkout to see, and while you are correct in that you can add it at checkout, it's not made very clear. It's listed under extra addon things like character slots and minis while not being very apparent that it's story you need to bridge between core/expansions. When I say bundle, I mean a bundle that shows it's more story that goes with it, sold together under one price. Even if it's not a discount that way and is still the same price, at least it fixes that problem.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    That's assuming the new player will log in every day and do the daily every day.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    You can start for free.

    World of Warcraft and many other other mmorpgs allow you to "start" for free too.

  • @Cisaro.3169 said:

    • I think I've already said this - it's not a cash issue it's visibility on content issue. Just tell me upfront or increase the price and throw it all in so there are no surprises.

    But we all love surprise mechanics right? :) /s
    I can completely understand your frustration Cisaro. Unfortunately Anet rarely goes back to fix or change something that is already released. Also you will notice a lot of the same people come to Anet's defense in the forums. While I'm taking a break from the game myself, I do say it is a great game. Well worth the time to play through personal story and map completion for the core game (in my opinion). As far as Living World stuff, some of it is very grindy such as the Skyscale Collection. (again my opinion)

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    You can start for free.

    World of Warcraft and many other other mmorpgs allow you to "start" for free too.

    For sure, but the limits in "play for free" WoW are more limiting than in "play for free" GW2. PFF GW2 allows you to play the entire base story, reach level 80, etc. etc. etc. Try reaching even "WoW Classic" max level with a PFF WoW account.

    @Biff.5312 said:
    Exercise your whimsy.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    That's assuming the new player will log in every day and do the daily every day.

    Of course. I was just trying to show that it’s possible to obtain enough gold without having to resort to grinding out the farms such as SW or DF.

    @Ototo.3214 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    As someone that has gotten nearly all of the LW seasons for free since S2, and has friends that would now like to jump into the story and buying the expansions...I agree it would be really nice if they could communicate this better. Why not make bundles that lump LW3 with HoT and LW4 with PoF? Or at the very least make it obvious there's more between the expansions you need to buy. Would like my friends to enjoy playing more of the game, not be frustrated by it.

    They do include bundles as you can add them when purchasing the expansions.

    @broFenix.1632 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    Just clicked through the checkout to see, and while you are correct in that you can add it at checkout, it's not made very clear. It's listed under extra addon things like character slots and minis while not being very apparent that it's story you need to bridge between core/expansions. When I say bundle, I mean a bundle that shows it's more story that goes with it, sold together under one price. Even if it's not a discount that way and is still the same price, at least it fixes that problem.

    That could end up creating confusion. Guild Wars had something similar with many bundles which left new players confused in regards to which ones to buy.

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    That's assuming the new player will log in every day and do the daily every day.

    Of course. I was just trying to show that it’s possible to obtain enough gold without having to resort to grinding out the farms such as SW or DF.

    @Ototo.3214 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ototo.3214 said:
    As someone that has gotten nearly all of the LW seasons for free since S2, and has friends that would now like to jump into the story and buying the expansions...I agree it would be really nice if they could communicate this better. Why not make bundles that lump LW3 with HoT and LW4 with PoF? Or at the very least make it obvious there's more between the expansions you need to buy. Would like my friends to enjoy playing more of the game, not be frustrated by it.

    They do include bundles as you can add them when purchasing the expansions.

    @broFenix.1632 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

    A player can have enough gold in a little over six months by saving their log in rewards and gold from doing the dailies. If they save the gold they get from playing the game then they get it even faster.

    Just clicked through the checkout to see, and while you are correct in that you can add it at checkout, it's not made very clear. It's listed under extra addon things like character slots and minis while not being very apparent that it's story you need to bridge between core/expansions. When I say bundle, I mean a bundle that shows it's more story that goes with it, sold together under one price. Even if it's not a discount that way and is still the same price, at least it fixes that problem.

    That could end up creating confusion. Guild Wars had something similar with many bundles which left new players confused in regards to which ones to buy.

    At the very least they need to make it clear that Living World is more purchasable story in some way. Because as is it already is confusing to new players that don't know what Living World is. It's literally listed next to minis and character slots, and to me that kinda stuff reads as unnecessary bonus cash shop stuff. Not story.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    You can start for free.

    World of Warcraft and many other other mmorpgs allow you to "start" for free too.

    You can play 20 levels out of 120 so not the same as gw2 were you can play whole core game.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @broFenix.1632 said:

    @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    You can buy the gems with gold.

    What you might consider doing is buying one episode with gold (or cash if you’re in a hurry and don’t want to wait while you’re farming gold), play through it while saving up gold then when you’re done with it buy the next episode with gold. Rinse and repeat.

    This is technically feasible but, at the time of me writing this, it costs ~782 gold to buy 3400 gems, roughly what it costs to buy Living World Seasons 2, 3, and 4. That's a ***** ton of gold for anybody to save up, let alone a new player who just wants to play the story. I'm a casual player who plays 3-6 hours a week, since I work full-time; it would probably take me over 2 years to save up this much gold to buy all the Living World episodes.......I think there should be an easier way, like unlocking them in game through content or making them less expensive.

    If a new player is only playing 3 to 6 hours per week then the core game will keep them occupied for quite some time. Perhaps even long enough to acquire the gold to buy LS2. Which should keep them occupied for some time. Eventually, combining gold and real money, they can acquire chapters and expansions at their own pace. No need to buy all at once.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    It is very confusing for a new player. I started after PoF and first I lvled to 80 on a f2p account. I buy the expansions, hop into HoT and wth? What just happened with the story? I had no idea that LS even exist. If I knew at the time how the story progresses I might even buy the ultimate edition for the gems (don't really care about fashion so don't really need so much gems).

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    When I first got into the game I encountered this. It greatly effected my experience. When I bought HoT the website advertised it as unlocking all content related to HoT. That is an implication that I would get the full Living World 3 season. Since I complained it was removed from the site, but they still do not address Living World at all as needing further purchases for all the content.

    Any arguments of "you can buy them with gold" will be disregarded.

    Anet needs to be outright clear that buying the expansions is NOT the full game. Besides, Living World shouldn't be charged anyways since what makes them the real money is the repeat purchases in the Gem store. If selling LW chapters for Gems was really that important, they wouldn't be giving them away to anyone.

    If anything, a current season should be unlocked in full if you are active during it at all. Missed full seasons can be sold. I was fine with purchasing Season 2.

    tl;dr
    I am actually a bit burned, because when I bought HoT it informed me that I would get all content involving it. Only to find that I had to pay another fee anyways. Anet fixed the purchase page, but I still got burned by Anet being really poor at word choice.

    Buying Skyrim doesn’t entitle me to the DLC content. Buying ESO, and it’s expansions, doesn’t entitle me to the DLC maps. Unless it’s specifically mentioned that the Living Story seasons would be included, it’s the players’ fault for making that assumption and not researching what they’re buying beforehand.

    Tl;dr Living Story seasons require an expansion (except LS2) but they are not part of the expansion.

    I couldn't have explained it any more clearly that it used to say that you got all related content until my complaining changed it. Are you just responding to me to throw the "entitlement" jab my way? Just stop.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Path of Fire: 30 euro
    Heart of Thorns: 30 euro
    Season 2: 1280 gems
    Season 3: 960 gems
    Season 4: 960 (most likely) gems
    Total 3200 gems

    You can either buy 2800 gems for 35 euro or 4000 gems for 50 euro, no option for 3200 gems
    This means you'd need to pay 110 euro to have access to everything in the game when you begin playing, and have some left over gems for a single outfit or a gathering tool.

    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    Maybe, just maybe, they want to rethink this strategy and that's why they didn't announce an expansion, but LS 5.

    Potentially axing expacs because yhey have a bad system with lw and its monetisation isnt a better solution.

    They should rethink lw monetisation.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    It is very confusing for a new player. I started after PoF and first I lvled to 80 on a f2p account. I buy the expansions, hop into HoT and wth? What just happened with the story? I had no idea that LS even exist. If I knew at the time how the story progresses I might even buy the ultimate edition for the gems (don't really care about fashion so don't really need so much gems).

    Did you use the level 80 boost, or did you play the personal story to level 80?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    When I first got into the game I encountered this. It greatly effected my experience. When I bought HoT the website advertised it as unlocking all content related to HoT. That is an implication that I would get the full Living World 3 season. Since I complained it was removed from the site, but they still do not address Living World at all as needing further purchases for all the content.

    Any arguments of "you can buy them with gold" will be disregarded.

    Anet needs to be outright clear that buying the expansions is NOT the full game. Besides, Living World shouldn't be charged anyways since what makes them the real money is the repeat purchases in the Gem store. If selling LW chapters for Gems was really that important, they wouldn't be giving them away to anyone.

    If anything, a current season should be unlocked in full if you are active during it at all. Missed full seasons can be sold. I was fine with purchasing Season 2.

    tl;dr
    I am actually a bit burned, because when I bought HoT it informed me that I would get all content involving it. Only to find that I had to pay another fee anyways. Anet fixed the purchase page, but I still got burned by Anet being really poor at word choice.

    Buying Skyrim doesn’t entitle me to the DLC content. Buying ESO, and it’s expansions, doesn’t entitle me to the DLC maps. Unless it’s specifically mentioned that the Living Story seasons would be included, it’s the players’ fault for making that assumption and not researching what they’re buying beforehand.

    Tl;dr Living Story seasons require an expansion (except LS2) but they are not part of the expansion.

    I couldn't have explained it any more clearly that it used to say that you got all related content until my complaining changed it. Are you just responding to me to throw the "entitlement" jab my way? Just stop.

    It never ever said that.

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've thought for awhile that since they are pushing the "Guild Wars 2 Living World" in their marketing that they should do a monolithic price point for new players that includes all previous content including the living world seasons so they don't have to unlock bits here and there. They could still offer the different expansions for players who haven't unlocked one or the other. If they aren't going to do another expansion it would make sense to sell it as one price. They could recut all their old teasers, previews and ads around the whole "Guild Wars 2 Living World" name. They could use the core material, expansion and living world previews recut. Maybe even change the character select screen to reflect that.

    They definitely could be much better at marketing than they have been. To me it seems they only focus their marketing to existing GW2 players.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Path of Fire: 30 euro
    Heart of Thorns: 30 euro
    Season 2: 1280 gems
    Season 3: 960 gems
    Season 4: 960 (most likely) gems
    Total 3200 gems

    You can either buy 2800 gems for 35 euro or 4000 gems for 50 euro, no option for 3200 gems
    This means you'd need to pay 110 euro to have access to everything in the game when you begin playing, and have some left over gems for a single outfit or a gathering tool.

    This makes Guild Wars 2 a very expensive game to start. And each expansion will make this worse.

    Maybe, just maybe, they want to rethink this strategy and that's why they didn't announce an expansion, but LS 5.

    LS chapters/seasons also aren't free for those that are about to start. LS5 might be cheaper than potential Expac 3 would have been, but it's still money you'd have to pay if you wanted to unlock everything from the start.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Agreed, it's high time for at least a great deal on LW content for new players.

    What reasonable business reason would there be for ANet to do this?

    Maybe the fact that its kind of misleading when new players come to the game and buy the expansions thinking they are getting all the content, when really they find out they have to buy extra on the side. Thats a huge turn off for a lot of people. They already sell everything in the gem shop locking the games story behind it too is kinda shameful.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2019

    DLC content generally are never included with games, or their expansions, unless specifically stated. Those new to video/computer games that offer DLCs can chalk this up as a learning experience.

    Skyrim has DLC’s that are not included with the main game unless you buy the package that specifically indicates they’re included. Many other games such as Fallout 3/4, Assassin’s Creed, and Final Fantasy 15 operate under the same concept. ESO is also similar except that it has “expansions” and an optional monthly sub which provides access to the DLC. WoW and Final Fantasy 14 are different as you’re required to have a sub to access the game including any content added between expansions.

  • I'm happy to pay cash for convenience items, storage expansions, I'm considering buying some skins as well. But DO NOT paywall people from content if they bought the full game and expansions at full price! This trend of releasing DLC content must go away...
    I have played the original Guild Wars since release day. Have Prophecies collector's edition. Bought several storage upgrades and of course all expansions. Just recently came to Guild Wars 2 and was very annoyed for buying game + expansions and still not having access to story content. It's not clear for a new customer and it really looked like I'd get all game content by buying base game + expansions...
    Again, I can happily pay for skins and for convenience items, but please considering letting customers who bought the full game has access to full content.
    PS: Sorry for necro but I did not want to start a new thread if this topic was already discussed. Just giving one more opinion to the matter.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that this is not abundantly clear from Anet. It could be better. However, it is the model they have chosen and LS chapters are easily obtained by converting gold -> gems.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • gravekeeper.8352gravekeeper.8352 Member
    edited March 25, 2020

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I agree that this is not abundantly clear from Anet. It could be better. However, it is the model they have chosen and LS chapters are easily obtained by converting gold -> gems.

    Maybe, eventually... I've now finished HoT, starting PoF and I certainly do not have enough gold to convert to gems to buy the story content I didn't get by buying full game and expansions. Either there's something I'm missing regarding gold or gathering the 1000g+ needed to get all Living World seasons takes much, much longer than playing through the normal story, which feels a bit disconnected for skipping that content.