Suggestion: Mendon's Gap Layout Update

I realize that issues with Mendon's Gap are nothing new, but I wanted to make a new discussion about changing the layout and structure of this tower as ANet are restructuring their internal teams and perhaps looking at some issues to prioritize. Immediately after the Ogrewatch changes in 2017, players brought up Mendon's as needing attention (see here and here), but discussion about it sort of fell off quickly.

The reason I bring it up now, is that with the increase in AOE we've seen with PoF, it seems as though defensive siege in Mendon's gets nuked down even faster than before. Ele's could always drop meteors, but coupled with scourge bombs, mesmer pulls/wells, and the support these players receive from scrappers, scourges, and firebrands, it's extremely hard to stop them once they've committed to desieging Mendon's. I made a quick video, linked

, which shows just how fast this can happen (sorry I didn't catch the full desiege - couldn't get my recording up and running fast enough). It's important to note I'm not at all criticizing the server/guild in the video, of course strong groups are going to do this because it's so simple for them when there's few defenders around. I'm just using this footage because it illustrates just how bad it can get, as most of you are already aware.

My suggestions to improve the issues Mendon's has are (sorry in advance for my horrible MSPaint examples lol):

• Add two new thick walls at the back of the supply depot area, in the two spots pictured here.
• Build out the side wall pictured here so that it's not so easy for eles and rangers to look over it and AOE.
• Remove the stair sections marked with red and extend the stair section marked with green shown here to accommodate the new walls.
• Consider making at least one, perhaps two, of the corners of the tower pictured here into a version of the "thick corner" that Alpine BL's NW tower received in an update some time back, shown here.

Some issues I could see arising would be that players seemed to have a mixed reaction to the changes to Quentin Lake back in 2014 (can't believe it was that long ago, was shocked when I saw the date lol), as per the archived thread here. Players cited the drastic change to the "choke" aspect of old QL; it was rare to have such a dramatic choke in a tower and the hugely spread out newer version eliminated that entirely. Mendon's has an even longer/more dramatic choke to push through on the bridge, so I wouldn't want to see that go.

Another possible problem could be that with the addition of the new walls I proposed, the players fighting on the supply depot side might have too much of an advantage compared to the side at lord's room; supply depot side players could use the walls to LoS easily, avoiding reflects/counter damage that they DO receive in the current version, while still being able to drop their damage in the chokepoint. Unsure of a solution for that issue.

tl;dr: The changes to Ogrewatch in 2017 and the increased damage and sustain of post-PoF zergs and their ability to bomb walls have made the need for an update to Mendon's Gap drastically needed. Not 100% sure what the ideal fix is, some possible ideas are above, but something's gotta change. I'm not asking for it to be turned into Veloka 2.0 - but sometimes it feels as though it may as well be an open camp for how vulnerable it is now.

You're not going to like the notes in what they said in the latest WvW with developers - they are basically going to make it easier for attackers now to all gates and walls and also there will be potential restrictions to repairs on walls while it is being damaged. There are even plans for rewarding attackers [on higher tier objectives I am guessing], so all you need is a bigger zerg now and you're golden.

@DemonSeed.3528 wow... I'll have to see if I can find those notes to take a look. Thanks for the heads up.

I meant the ones in this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/73051/notes-from-the-latest-lets-play-guildwars2-world-vs-world-with-the-developers

Thanks a lot. Yeah definitely feel a bit stupid making a suggestion about increasing the defensive position of a structure seeing that's probably bottom of their thought process at the moment. =/ /deletethread lol

@Lauren.3061 said:Thanks a lot. Yeah definitely feel a bit stupid making a suggestion about increasing the defensive position of a structure seeing that's probably bottom of their thought process at the moment. =/ /deletethread lol

Well... I am not sure they can’t both exist in the context of making walls and gates having less HP, while simultaneously giving defenders better ability to fight back.

Both are different goals that don’t work against each other.

structural layout change threads are always good, its the sorta feedback that can lead to good changes.

Thanks you both! Maybe it could get some consideration, then. Fingers crossed. :)

@DemonSeed.3528 said:You're not going to like the notes in what they said in the latest WvW with developers - they are basically going to make it easier for attackers now to all gates and walls and also there will be potential restrictions to repairs on walls while it is being damaged. There are even plans for rewarding attackers [on higher tier objectives I am guessing], so all you need is a bigger zerg now and you're golden.

Yep, the change will be in favor of the attackers and the onus will be on the defenders to get their squad(s) there fast enough to save the tower or keep. Apparently there was a little 'task force' from wvw working with the devs on this one. Frankly I'm not in favor of it for the most part but at the end of the day people will continue to make decisions based on what the vocal groups speak about the most. ... and I will continue to play wvw because also frankly.. I love wvw. Some of the mechanics I don't agree with but after all is said and done just give me some place to run with my friends and destroy as many enemy as I can.... oh ya... and use wp mastery now and then.. ;)

I think a couple walls could probably do with some rethinking.Here's a list of the towers and their walls. Green has an advantage overall and red is at the biggest disadvantage while also having to deal with desert as their home bl (an issue that should be fixed with random side placements at resets again).

Jerrifers(inner) - two walls facing keep, can both be defended by keep.Aldon's(inner) - two walls one facing one away from keep, can both be defended by keep.Wildcreek(outer) - one wall facing smc, can some what be defended by keep if catas are down low.Klovan(outer) - two walls same side, can't be defended by keep.

Langor(inner) - two walls one facing one away, one can be defended by keep has lord room platform to help with other side.Bravost(inner) - two walls one facing one away, one can be defended by keep, other side has a lower cliff so defenders have a little advantage with siege from wall, unless attackers jump and port up to the wall area.Durios(outer) - two walls, no connection to keep, both not easily defended when catas or trebs can be placed in ogres area to break.Quentin lake(outer) - two walls same side, no connection to keep, both can be defended by nearby cliff which requires a long run around for attackers to get to. Or from the tower if the attack is from the river or back in the frog area.

Veloka(inner) - two walls one facing one away from keep, can mostly be defended with bombardment by siege from keep.Mendons(inner) - two walls facing away from keep, no connection to keep other than you can treb keep from mendon's lords, a nearby hill that helps attackers more than defenders unlike the QL hill, tower might as well have been placed next to speldans for how much use it is. I would suggest making the west wall non breakable with maybe the east wall breakable, or maybe adjusting that nearby hill so it isn't an advantage for attackers.Ogre watch(outer) - one wall, tower got moved to take away the gliding advantage it gave to the home side... bring an army to fight the army camping in ogres with cata's and shield gens.Anzalias(outer) - three walls..... three.. one of which can be cata'd from safety in the dredge tunnel entrance(isn't this the reason wildcreek got it's wall change?) high time for anz to get the same treatment and make the wall facing dredge non breakable.

1) Speldon not popping enemy dots is big problem, because that is usually where the enemy zerg comes from.

2) While you wait for re-layout of Mendon (which I do not think is needed), you want to build your treb on the inside of the supply hut roof, move it inside towards the wall and push forward towards the edge. That will give you more time to actually use the treb before they are taken down, if you build the treb there, you can use the treb standing on the lower roof of the supply hut- this provide you shelter from pulls. They will still take it down, but slower, hence comes your aiming, make sure you treb hits , and call for back up, pull invunerable when backup can't come in time or the wall gets too low.

3) You want a counter treb for when they stand on the staircase* to take down your supply hut treb, it should be drop in the lords room. If they go to the front to take down your supply hut treb, you cow them from the lords room, if they come take your lords room treb, you cow them from the supply hut treb. Don't forget to drop some balista to take down enemy balista, or just shoots at enemy passing underneath for fun. This treb in the lords room also hits the gate and the vulnerable walls to the left plus the mound where the sneaky catapult is usually dropped, further from the tower.

• (I do not think the staircase should be removed, they are for defending as well = ease of access for both enemy and friendlies)

4) I can't give away all my treb spot :P that should keep you buzy for a while.

5) if a giant size zerg come to flip Mendon, you can only hope to cow them as much as possible so they don't do damage to other nearby objectives. Because Giant size zerg is not a layout problem, its other problems. Alwasy have Invunerable, Watch Tower, Supply Drop and supply removal trap and scout at Mendon. only then can you keep this tower.

@SweetPotato.7456 said: [suggestions]

All good tips for sure. In this case though, I'm well familiar with how to siege up Mendon's - and the original supply hut treb I had was well placed in the farthest corner from the edge as possible. (Someone rebuilt it in the bad spot shown in the vid) They made two passes at this tower. The first one, I cowed them from the back trebs - they had to leave and resupply and come back for the cap. We had the proper tactics, but invuln had been pulled by a troll in all our towers about 5 minutes before this zerg started rolling them (again not blaming this guild or anyone in that zerg, but that's how it was). But yeah even though we had bridge/lord's room/front wall ACs on them from when they first showed up, they just went around and AOE'd them all down. There's nothing you can do about that because, respectfully I have to disagree, of how the tower's layout is.