Staff buffs — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Staff buffs

Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 10, 2019 in Elementalist

Mostly just transitioning from clunky to smoother mechanics for some skills while adding some anti-meta utility for PvP. Elementalist staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the entire game, and I don't really want to mess with that. That said, the nerf to Lava Font and Meteor Shower was utter trash, and it's worth reverting it to some degree.

FIRE

[Lava Font] (2)
* Damage increased by approximately 33% (modifier increase from 0.525 to 0.7).

Stop pretending that the zerk meta is or has ever been bad for the game. Moreover, your “pls buy our expac” specs will survive. A 33% increase per tick to this skill's current damage level would still be 12.5% below what it was prior to its damage nerf.

[Flame Burst] (3)
Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Burning|2| (6s): [damage]
  • Delay: 1s
  • Explosion damage: (1.0)
  • Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%
  • Maximum bonus damage: 250%
  • Radius: 180
  • Range: 1200

This skill is now a ground-targeted ability.

[Burning Retreat] (4)
Recharge: 5s
Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.

  • Damage: (1.0)
  • Burning (4s): [damage]
  • Interval: 1s
  • Duration: 2s
  • Evade: 1s
  • Maximum Count: 2
  • Count Recharge: 30s
  • Combo Field: Fire

Massive buff to the fire line damage (would be on par with Fireball) which is off-set by a lower duration. The ammo feature adds further flexibility to its PvP usage (not just as increased mobility, but also as a field hazard) and turns it into a strong PvE DPS staple.

[Meteor Shower] (5)

  • Minimum damage value per meteor shower strike increased from (0.32) to (0.55).

WATER

[Ice Spike] (2)
Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 5s
Launch a huge ice spike that shatters on impact.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Damage: (1.5)
  • Vulnerability|10| (6s): 10% Incoming Damage; 10% Incoming Condition Damage
  • Combo Finisher: Blast
  • Radius: 240
  • Range: 1200

Now behaves identically to Warrior [Arcing Shot].
Projectile model uses the current model asset which plays during this skill's current “delay” animation. Perhaps re-tool (rotate; adjust speed, etc) the delay model's "creation" animation for the skill's activation portion as well.

[Frozen Ground] (4)
Recharge: 5s
Foes at the target area initially lose defensive boons. Target area inflicts chill and damages downed foes at every interval.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Initial Boons Removed: [Stability], [Resistance]
  • Chilled (1½s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
  • Downed Health Damage: 7%
  • Interval: 1s
  • Duration: 4s
  • Radius: 240
  • Combo Field: Ice
  • Maximum Count: 2
  • Count Recharge: 50s
  • Range: 1200
  • Unblockable

The “Downed Health” damage is equivalent to 7% of a respective downed player's total HP, and it is applied simultaneously with the chill effect.

AIR

[Gust] (3)
Activation: 1s / Recharge: 20s
Release an air burst that knocks foes backward. If you fully channel this skill and release it, you instead whirl forward, knocking back foes along your path.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Air burst knockback: 400
  • Air burst range: 1200
  • Number of Whirl Impacts: 8
  • Whirl knockback: 400
  • Whirl evade: ½s
  • Whirl radius: 130
  • Whirl range: 900
  • Combo Finisher: Whirl

This skill's minimal channel time will be ¼s (same as its current cast-time). If a player were to simply press and release the skill button immediately, this skill would execute immediately after it hit the minimal channel time threshold, resulting in the current iteration of the skill. The listed “activation time” in the tool-tip denotes the “full channel” which is required for the player to perform the whirl attack. The channel can be maintained at full charge, allowing a player to charge up the whirl, hold down the button and then deploy it later upon releasing the button.
The whirl attack's movement behavior and travel distance are respectively identical to the Fiery Greatsword skill [Fiery Whirl].

[Windborne Speed] (4)

  • Activation reduced from ¼s to 0 (instant). Can now be used in midair or while CC'ed.
  • Now also grants superspeed (3s) to affected allies.

EARTH

[Stoning] (1)
Activation: ¾s
Swing your staff, launching a stone at your target and striking foes in melee. Stone impacts weaken foes. Staff strikes cause endurance loss to weakened foes.

  • Stone damage: (0.5)
  • Weakness (1½s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
  • Stone range: 1200
  • Number of staff strike targets: 3
  • Staff strike damage: (0.75)
  • Endurance loss: 15
  • Staff strike range: 150

Projectile behavior needs a rework: something more reliable like Warrior longbow attacks.
The stone can only strike 1 target; it does not pierce. The melee staff attack can hit up to 3 targets (including the stone target if the player attacks a selected target while in melee range).

[Eruption] (2)
Activation: 1s / Recharge: 8s
Shake the ground, crippling foes, then damage foes with a pair of eruptions.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Shake damage: (0.5)
  • Shake crippled (3s): -50% Movement Speed
  • Shake radius: 240
  • Eruption damage: (0.75)
  • First eruption bleeding|4| (10s): [damage]
  • Second eruption bleeding|6| (10s): [damage]
  • Second eruption blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses.
  • Eruption radius: 180
  • Combo Finisher: Blast
  • Range: 1200

This skill generates two simultaneous AoEs: the initial, 240-radius “shake” effect as well as the 180-radius, 2-second duration AoE which inflicts the two, respective eruption damage ticks at the end of each second of its duration. These two AoEs are layered over each other (the 180 radius directly at the center of the 240 radius).
This skill uses a 240-radius AoE for its ground-targeted reticle.
Only the second eruption strike counts as the Blast Finisher.

[Magnetic Aura] (3a)

  • Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.
  • Aura duration reduced from 5s to 4s.

[Transmute Earth] (3b)
Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
Detonate your magnetic aura and knock back adjacent foes. Grant barrier to adjacent allies.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Knockback: 400
  • Unblockable
  • Number of allies: 5
  • Barrier: 2487 (0.125)
  • Radius: 180

[Unsteady Ground] (4)

  • Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.

[Shockwave] (5)
Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 25s
Slam the ground with your staff and create a cascading shockwave. All impacts immobilize foes. The middle impact also inflicts weakness and removes defensive boons from foes. The closest impact inflicts all prior effects and also blinds and dazes foes.

  • Number of targets: 5
  • Number of impacts: 3
  • Impact damage: (0.5)
  • Immobilize (1½s): Unable to move.
  • Weakness (4s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
  • Boons Removed: [Stability]; [Resistance]
  • Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.
  • Dazed: 1s
  • Range: 1200

Hitbox, attack animation and skill usage now equivalent to Revenant [Coalesence of Ruin]. Use the Elementalist [Ring of Earth] model asset for each impact animation.

Answers

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2019

    pretty cool ideas man. ive had a few bouncing around inside my head:
    fire 4 - is also a leap so you can get fire aura
    water auto - unblockable (spam dem heals!)
    water 2 - 1/2 sec daze
    water 4+5 - cd reduced by 10 sec
    air 2 - cd reduced by 2 sec and instant cast
    air 3 - cd reduced by 10 sec
    earth auto - hits 3 targets
    earth 2 - 1/2 cast time 1/2 sec daze
    earth 5 - add 5 sec of cripple and 15 stacks of vuln at 8 sec

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want to preface this with the fact that everything I say is something said of out respect and for the sake of constructive criticism, and I appreciate you reading the post. I also want to say that while I agree that a lot of the skills which you personally highlighted are in need of some changes or outright buffs, I do not necessarily agree with the way in which you went about buffing them (as they mostly remind me of how anet changes things in PvP).

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    pretty cool ideas man. ive had a few bouncing around inside my head:
    fire 4 - is also a leap so you can get fire aura

    Considering that ele can get a free fire aura just by attuning to fire along with all of the aura generation on tempest, I think that I would rather give a leap to a utility skill with some value rather than just slap it onto Burning Retreat.

    water auto - unblockable (spam dem heals!)

    If you want to spam heals, you can just unlock from a target and free-aim your water autos at the ground. They will still apply healing even if they strike no targets. This same tactic can be used with fireball in order to snipe stealthed targets. Splash properties on skills is a super utilitarian aspect because it frees players from being bound to this game's horrid targeting system (and its also the reason why I also thought about giving the same property to earth autos).

    water 2 - 1/2 sec daze

    That's just more of what the meta provides. It isn't really a fair or creative effect. Getting hit by an ice spike is punishment enough considering that it deals full-power meteor damage. If anything, it could maybe get an unlockable trait or even a 2 ammo count with a 10s count recharge, but any other change would probably just be better off as a total skill rework.

    water 4+5 - cd reduced by 10 sec

    These skills are beyond help via CD or cast time adjustments. They need new functions (hence my Frozen Ground suggestion). I still think that Healing Rain is sufficient as is.

    air 2 - cd reduced by 2 sec and instant cast

    This would be super cancerous. It already deals ludicrous damage (nearly on par with Ice Spike), and it's very easy to land. It also blinds. It requires at least a 1s cast time in order to be fair.

    air 3 - cd reduced by 10 sec

    No real need. Maybe, MAYBE a 5s CD reduction, but ultimately it's not entirely necessary (especially considering how my suggestion adds more CC options to earth).

    earth 2 - 1/2 cast time 1/2 sec daze

    Basically same complaint that I have with the Ice Spike suggestion. It threatens a huge area for 3s already, and it hits hard. It doesn't need to daze, and the 1200 range means that it doesn't need a 0.5s cast-time.

    earth 5 - add 5 sec of cripple and 15 stacks of vuln at 8 sec

    Another skill that can't be made "good" just by slapping extra things onto it. This is why I chose to rework it.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Mostly just transitioning from clunky to smoother mechanics for some skills while adding some anti-meta utility for PvP. Elementalist staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the entire game, and I don't really want to mess with that. That said, the nerf to Lava Font and Meteor Shower was utter trash, and it's worth reverting it to some degree.

    FIRE

    [Lava Font] (2)
    * Damage increased by approximately 33% (modifier increase from 0.525 to 0.7).

    Stop pretending that the zerk meta is or has ever been bad for the game. Moreover, your “pls buy our expac” specs will survive. A 33% increase per tick to this skill's current damage level would still be 12.5% below what it was prior to its damage nerf.

    [Flame Burst] (3)
    Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
    Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Burning|2| (6s): [damage]
    • Delay: 2s
    • Explosion damage: (1.0)
    • Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%
    • Maximum bonus damage: 250%
    • Radius: 180
    • Range: 1200

    [Burning Retreat] (4)
    Recharge: 2s
    Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.

    • Damage: (1.0)
    • Burning (4s): [damage]
    • Interval: 1s
    • Duration: 2s
    • Evade: 1s
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 30s
    • Combo Field: Fire

    Massive buff to the fire line damage (would be on par with Fireball) which is off-set by a lower duration. The ammo feature adds further flexibility to its PvP usage (not just as increased mobility, but also as a field hazard) and turns it into a strong PvE DPS staple.

    [Meteor Shower] (5)
    * Minimum damage value per meteor shower strike increased from (0.32) to (0.75).

    WATER

    [Frozen Ground] (4)
    Recharge: 3s
    Target area removes defensive boons and inflicts chill. Foes in the area revive more slowly.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
    • Boons Removed: [Stability], [Resistance]
    • Frozen Ground (1s): Incoming Stability and Resistance are immediately removed; -75% Revive Speed
    • Interval: 1s
    • Duration: 4s
    • Radius: 240
    • Combo Field: Ice
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 50s
    • Range: 1200
    • Unblockable

    In addition to inflicting chill, every pulse now also removes stability and resistance while simultaneously applying the new “Frozen Ground” debuff listed in the tool-tip.

    When interacting with incoming boons, the Frozen Ground debuff works identically to the boon-prevention mechanic featured in [Winds of Disenchantment].

    AIR

    [Windborne Speed] (4)
    * Activation reduced from ¼s to 0 (instant). Can now be used while CC'ed.
    * Now also grants superspeed (3s) to affected allies.

    EARTH

    [Stoning] (1)
    Activation: ¾s
    Swing your staff, launching a stone at your target and striking foes in melee. The stone weakens struck foes. Striking weakened foes with your staff coverts boons on them into vulnerability.

    • Number of targets: 3
    • Staff strike damage: (0.75)
    • Stone damage: (0.5)
    • Weakness (1½s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
    • Boons converted to vulnerability: 2
    • Vulnerability|3| (10s): 3% Incoming Damage; 3% Incoming Condition Damage
    • Stone range: 1200
    • Staff strike range: 150

    Projectile behavior reworked to match something similar to with that of Revenant [Hammer Bolt].

    [Eruption] (2)
    Activation: 1¼s / Recharge: 6s
    Shake the earth, crippling foes. At the end of this skill's duration, the ground erupts, damaging foes and granting barrier to allies. If this skill combos with a fire field, it blinds and burns nearby foes while granting barrier to nearby allies.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Number of allies: 5
    • Duration: 3s
    • Shake damage: (0.5)
    • Shake crippled (3s): -50% Movement Speed
    • Eruption damage: (1.25)
    • Eruption bleeding |6| (10s): [damage]
    • Barrier: 1496 (0.125)
    • Blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses.
    • Burning|3| (6s): [damage]
    • Radius: 240
    • Combo Finisher: Blast
    • Range: 1200

    The cripple and initial “shake” damage occurs immediately after cast resolution; eruption damage occurs at the very end of the skill's duration.
    Only the final, eruption damage packet counts as the skill's Blast Finisher.
    The “shaking rock” animation present during the skill's delay period needs to be re-sized in order to accurately match the actual AoE.

    [Magnetic Aura] (3a)
    * Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.
    * Aura duration reduced from 5s to 4s.

    [Transmute Earth] (3b)
    Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
    Detonate your magnetic aura and knock back nearby foes. Grant barrier to nearby allies.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Knockback: 400
    • Unblockable
    • Number of allies: 5
    • Barrier: 2487 (0.125)
    • Radius: 180

    [Unsteady Ground] (4)
    * Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.

    [Shockwave] (5)
    Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 25s
    Slam the ground with your staff and create a cascading shockwave. All impacts immobilize foes. The middle impact also weakens foes. The closest impact inflicts all prior conditions and also blinds and dazes foes.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Number of impacts: 3
    • Impact damage: (0.5)
    • Immobilize (2s): Unable to move.
    • Weakness (5s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
    • Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.
    • Dazed: 1s
    • Range: 1200

    Hitbox, attack animation and skill usage now equivalent to Revenant [Coalesence of Ruin]. Use the Elementalist [Ring of Earth] model asset for each impact animation.

    Your changes would actually make staff usable outside being babysitted by a whole zerg..doubt it will ever happen

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    I like it.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like to see water 1 become more of a "mist" effect that takes a bit longer to cast but heals in more of a cone and can not be stopped by anty projectile.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    I like to see water 1 become more of a "mist" effect that takes a bit longer to cast but heals in more of a cone and can not be stopped by anty projectile.

    It might be kind of interesting to see Water Blast turned into an attack which produced an un-typed (no combo finisher interaction) AoE at its impact location which healed over a fixed duration. It could be a huge amount: maybe something like 440 (0.125-0.5) over 3 seconds or something, but if it were a persisting AoE, then it would be possible to use free-aim attacks in order to layer them over each other and create healing zones on the field after a few attacks. That said, I kind of like the cone attack idea as well considering how nobody ever uses Water Blast for DPS. To that end, it might almost be worthwhile to just turn it into a low-range, support-oriented "attack" rather than trying to "buff" its current attack paradigm (that being a 1200 range projectile with an AoE effect).

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like that.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2019

    Fire: Love it, only thing I'm concerned about is minimum damage for meteor being buffed too much. I think maybe a more conservative value of 0.50 or 0.55 would be better. I was sad when they nerfed meteor but honestly it's a pretty OP skill even after the first few strikes, all things considered (still a huge damage source - 40-65% total DPS in any given zerg fight; with this buff it would be more like 45-70% ??)

    Water: Good idea, ele needs boon corrupts. Foes in the area reviving slowly would be a game-changer and make weaver more valuable to a rigid group composition. If it were up to me I'd maybe reduce the pulses to 3, OR make it not unblockable. Although ... I dunno, maybe it's good like that - slightly OP, but needed to be that way.

    Air: Great idea

    Earth: Oooh I love the melee cleave + ranged idea. Converting boons on only weakened foes is a nice touch ... not overly powered, but still worthwhile. Perhaps still a skill that won't see much action even with such a change but great idea. Eruption: cool synergy with fire fields idea but honestly I think all this skill needed was a lesser cast time --- it does almost as much damage as meteor shower to 5 targets, it's actually a good skill presently -- people just don't bother using it because it's hard to hit things with it. Shockwave: nice .. this skill did need a bit of a rework, it usually doesn't even hit anything. Needs to be somewhat faster, unless the cascading effect balances out how slow it is travelling.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | YouTube Wrath of God Staff Weaver |
    | Anvil Rock (main) | Crystal Desert (alt)

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Fire: Love it, only thing I'm concerned about is minimum damage for meteor being buffed too much. I think maybe a more conservative value of 0.50 or 0.55 would be better. I was sad when they nerfed meteor but honestly it's a pretty OP skill even after the first few strikes, all things considered (still a huge damage source - 40-65% total DPS in any given zerg fight; with this buff it would be more like 45-70% ??)

    I threw (0.75) up there sort of to keep it in line with Lava Font, but I'm not really opposed to it going down. Thinking about it, the current Lava Font tick of (0.525) often crits for around 900-1000 against most targets in PvP, so maybe a (0.55) wouldn't be a bad idea for the sake of number modesty.

    Water: Good idea, ele needs boon corrupts. Foes in the area reviving slowly would be a game-changer and make weaver more valuable to a rigid group composition. If it were up to me I'd maybe reduce the pulses to 3, OR make it not unblockable. Although ... I dunno, maybe it's good like that - slightly OP, but needed to be that way.

    I would hate to lose the unblockable feature. It really punishes most people in the game; every meta build will often teach players to just walk forward while blowing low-effort cooldowns in order to mitigate the effects of every opponent on the field. Throwing a chill field under something like a shield turtle warrior is really effective even now. I'd be willing to drop the duration down to 3s, though. It's powerful enough in the split-second that it doesn't really need to linger around too much as a field hazard. In reality, I had played with the idea of dropping the radius from 300 to 180 instead of the listed 240, so that's something else to consider: a smaller radius, but still carries a longer-duration, "no-go" zone on the field which could be used very effectively against certain chokepoints or in conjunction with CC (180 radius is also nothing small either; especially with such a powerful effect). I'd like your opinion on that if you had any thoughts.

    Earth: Oooh I love the melee cleave + ranged idea. Converting boons on only weakened foes is a nice touch ... not overly powered, but still worthwhile. Perhaps still a skill that won't see much action even with such a change but great idea. Eruption: cool synergy with fire fields idea but honestly I think all this skill needed was a lesser cast time --- it does almost as much damage as meteor shower to 5 targets, it's actually a good skill presently -- people just don't bother using it because it's hard to hit things with it. Shockwave: nice .. this skill did need a bit of a rework, it usually doesn't even hit anything. Needs to be somewhat faster, unless the cascading effect balances out how slow it is travelling.

    The Stoning re-work was mostly a PvP utility change, but it could also potentially rack up a lot of damage considering how, technically, both attacks should be able to simultaneously strike a single target if the user attacks while locked-on in melee range. A combination (0.5) and (0.75) modifier attack every 1s or so could mean some business if they both crit. Ultimately, though, yes, due to the range restriction on the higher amount of damage and the boon conversion, it's mostly a clutch utility tool rather than a reliable source of high damage.

    The synergy with fire fields was mostly conceived as a conditional limiter behind which I could pile on some stronger effects. I think that the main feature of my personal Eruption change was front-loading the cripple to the very beginning of the skill (directly after the cast resolved). A 240 range cripple (even at only 3s) is pretty strong, considering that it also applies a delayed damage strike which, as you said, can inflict a lot of damage. Moreover, even if the AoE isn't used to initially cripple anyone, it is still a lingering field hazard, and I think that was the strength of staff ele which I wanted to highlight and enhance: its passive area control. The thing about staff ele is that it threatens area without constantly casting spells, and that's a very interesting and powerful playstyle. Lowering Eruption's cast-time wholesale wouldn't really change or enhance that strongest aspect of the skill outright, which is why I instead chose to give it a bigger pay-off while also giving it some flexible usage as a basic soft-CC ability. In particular regard to the former, it becomes an even bigger "no-go" zone for enemies and therefore a stronger defensive area for allies (or it just becomes a huge damage source which swings a fight). However, in order to balance that increased threat, I then lowered the total radius just because a 300 radius AoE with a massive, delayed threat every 6s would be incredibly oppressive to face (even in an open field). All that said, I guess that I wouldn't care if Eruption had its cast-time lowered; it just wouldn't really change anything about the skill, or make it more interesting or flexible to use; and I think that that's what the skill really needs: some more "oomph" and flexibility. I just chose to put the "oomph" behind a conditional trigger because I didn't want to just straight buff it and maybe make it a little too strong.

    I'd argue that the 0.75s cast on a re-worked Shockwave would be adequate considering how fast the current Coalescence of Ruin resolves with relation to its relatively far reach. It's also a pretty fluid skill to use while moving, and users could pretty quickly swivel toward any given direction in order to fire off a huge, linear CC AoE. Again, the goal was to buff staff without making it too unfair in the same way that most meta builds end up being; more of a meta-counter with respectable offensive potential rather than the same, auto-pilot meta playstyle featured in most every class nowadays.

    edit: I might take some of your ideas and just tweak the top post accordingly.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    [Flame Burst] (3)
    Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
    Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.
    Number of targets: 5
    Burning|2| (6s): [damage]
    Delay: 1½s
    Explosion damage: (1.0)
    Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%
    Maximum bonus damage: 250%
    Radius: 180
    Range: 1200

    Extra damage to Burning foes doesn't make a whole lot of sense here as it's the only skill in the kit that actually inflicts the needed burn. With a 10 second cd you'll never hit your own burn. Ofc in a raid scenario a boss would be permanently burning assuming there's atleast 1 Guardian in the squad, so in that sense sure.

    [Burning Retreat] (4)
    Recharge: 2s
    Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.
    Damage: (1.0)
    Burning (4s): [damage]
    Interval: 1s
    Duration: 2s
    Evade: 1s
    Maximum Count: 2
    Count Recharge: 30s
    Combo Field: Fire

    I would normalize the recharge to be the same as in Twist of Fate, 5 seconds. That 1 second window between this ending and getting access to the next ammo charge can be covered with a normal dodge, making this skill too strong with a 2 second recharge.

    WATER

    [Frozen Ground] (4)
    Recharge: 3s
    Target area removes defensive boons and inflicts chill. Foes in the area revive more slowly.
    Number of targets: 5
    Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
    Boons Removed: [Stability], [Resistance]
    Frozen Ground (1s): Incoming Stability and Resistance are immediately removed; -75% Revive Speed
    Interval: 1s
    Duration: 4s
    Radius: 240
    Combo Field: Ice
    Maximum Count: 2
    Count Recharge: 50s
    Range: 1200
    Unblockable

    I think the revive speed penalty is too severe. Depending on how this is implemented, your opponent could end up doing damage by trying to res if the ressee also has Poison on them, and that violates core design aspects of the game. You did forget about Poison, right?
    -25% or -33% would be my suggestion. Probably -33% so it's like a proto-Poison.
    Even with that this skill would be OP af. Ammo? 4 second duration? I'd put this on a 3 second duration with no ammo, and keep the current recharge. Should also rip Stab and Resi on placement, and the inflicted Chill could be 3 seconds.

    [Stoning] (1)
    Activation: ¾s
    Swing your staff, launching a stone at your target and striking foes in melee. The stone weakens struck foes. Striking weakened foes with your staff coverts boons on them into vulnerability.
    Number of targets: 3
    Staff strike damage: (0.75)
    Stone damage: (0.5)
    Weakness (1½s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
    Boons converted to vulnerability: 2
    Vulnerability|3| (10s): 3% Incoming Damage; 3% Incoming Condition Damage
    Stone range: 1200
    Staff strike range: 150

    Maybe just 1 Boon though. Boon removal is a strong effect, and wading into melee with Stone Heart and a foe with Weakness is not a big deal even as an ele. You can make entire builds around an interaction this strong. Which is good but 2 is still too strong.
    Btw, is this a physical projectile and does it Pierce?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    I want to preface this with the fact that everything I say is something said of out respect and for the sake of constructive criticism, and I appreciate you reading the post. I also want to say that while I agree that a lot of the skills which you personally highlighted are in need of some changes or outright buffs, I do not necessarily agree with the way in which you went about buffing them (as they mostly remind me of how anet changes things in PvP).

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    pretty cool ideas man. ive had a few bouncing around inside my head:
    fire 4 - is also a leap so you can get fire aura

    Considering that ele can get a free fire aura just by attuning to fire along with all of the aura generation on tempest, I think that I would rather give a leap to a utility skill with some value rather than just slap it onto Burning Retreat.

    if you run fire, which support ele doesn't do.

    water auto - unblockable (spam dem heals!)

    If you want to spam heals, you can just unlock from a target and free-aim your water autos at the ground. They will still apply healing even if they strike no targets. This same tactic can be used with fireball in order to snipe stealthed targets. Splash properties on skills is a super utilitarian aspect because it frees players from being bound to this game's horrid targeting system (and its also the reason why I also thought about giving the same property to earth autos).

    this is so water auto cant get reflected in wvw fights. could also just remove the damage since its puny anyways, but that would be wonky imo.

    water 2 - 1/2 sec daze

    That's just more of what the meta provides. It isn't really a fair or creative effect. Getting hit by an ice spike is punishment enough considering that it deals full-power meteor damage. If anything, it could maybe get an unlockable trait or even a 2 ammo count with a 10s count recharge, but any other change would probably just be better off as a total skill rework.

    don't disagree. its to help with 1v1s which staff is horrid at.

    water 4+5 - cd reduced by 10 sec

    These skills are beyond help via CD or cast time adjustments. They need new functions (hence my Frozen Ground suggestion). I still think that Healing Rain is sufficient as is.

    don't disagree.

    air 2 - cd reduced by 2 sec and instant cast

    This would be super cancerous. It already deals ludicrous damage (nearly on par with Ice Spike), and it's very easy to land. It also blinds. It requires at least a 1s cast time in order to be fair.

    air 2 takes forever to cast for how much it does. so what if it does a lot of damage? nerf the coefficient a bit then. air is supposed to be the "fast cast" element anyways.

    air 3 - cd reduced by 10 sec

    No real need. Maybe, MAYBE a 5s CD reduction, but ultimately it's not entirely necessary (especially considering how my suggestion adds more CC options to earth).

    i guess. its a very underwhelming skill.

    earth 2 - 1/2 cast time 1/2 sec daze

    Basically same complaint that I have with the Ice Spike suggestion. It threatens a huge area for 3s already, and it hits hard. It doesn't need to daze, and the 1200 range means that it doesn't need a 0.5s cast-time.

    same as water 2. it also takes forever to activate, most people just walk out of it.

    earth 5 - add 5 sec of cripple and 15 stacks of vuln at 8 sec

    Another skill that can't be made "good" just by slapping extra things onto it. This is why I chose to rework it.

    don't disagree.

  • Mithos.9023Mithos.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Mostly just transitioning from clunky to smoother mechanics for some skills while adding some anti-meta utility for PvP. Elementalist staff is one of the most balanced weapon sets in the entire game, and I don't really want to mess with that. That said, the nerf to Lava Font and Meteor Shower was utter trash, and it's worth reverting it to some degree.

    FIRE

    [Lava Font] (2)
    * Damage increased by approximately 33% (modifier increase from 0.525 to 0.7).

    Stop pretending that the zerk meta is or has ever been bad for the game. Moreover, your “pls buy our expac” specs will survive. A 33% increase per tick to this skill's current damage level would still be 12.5% below what it was prior to its damage nerf.

    [Flame Burst] (3)
    Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
    Burn foes at the target location. After a delay, the target location explodes, damaging foes. This explosion deals bonus damage to foes per stack of burning on them.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Burning|2| (6s): [damage]
    • Delay: 1½s
    • Explosion damage: (1.0)
    • Bonus explosion damage per burning stack: 10%
    • Maximum bonus damage: 250%
    • Radius: 180
    • Range: 1200

    [Burning Retreat] (4)
    Recharge: 2s
    Quickly roll backward, leaving behind a line of fire that burns foes.

    • Damage: (1.0)
    • Burning (4s): [damage]
    • Interval: 1s
    • Duration: 2s
    • Evade: 1s
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 30s
    • Combo Field: Fire

    Massive buff to the fire line damage (would be on par with Fireball) which is off-set by a lower duration. The ammo feature adds further flexibility to its PvP usage (not just as increased mobility, but also as a field hazard) and turns it into a strong PvE DPS staple.

    [Meteor Shower] (5)
    * Minimum damage value per meteor shower strike increased from (0.32) to (0.55).

    WATER

    [Frozen Ground] (4)
    Recharge: 3s
    Target area removes defensive boons and inflicts chill. Foes in the area revive more slowly.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
    • Boons Removed: [Stability], [Resistance]
    • Frozen Ground (1s): Incoming Stability and Resistance are immediately removed; -75% Revive Speed
    • Interval: 1s
    • Duration: 4s
    • Radius: 240
    • Combo Field: Ice
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 50s
    • Range: 1200
    • Unblockable

    In addition to inflicting chill, every pulse now also removes stability and resistance while simultaneously applying the new “Frozen Ground” debuff listed in the tool-tip.

    When interacting with incoming boons, the Frozen Ground debuff works identically to the boon-prevention mechanic featured in [Winds of Disenchantment].

    AIR

    [Windborne Speed] (4)
    * Activation reduced from ¼s to 0 (instant). Can now be used while CC'ed.
    * Now also grants superspeed (3s) to affected allies.

    EARTH

    [Stoning] (1)
    Activation: ¾s
    Swing your staff, launching a stone at your target and striking foes in melee. The stone weakens struck foes. Striking weakened foes with your staff coverts boons on them into vulnerability.

    • Number of targets: 3
    • Staff strike damage: (0.75)
    • Stone damage: (0.5)
    • Weakness (1½s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
    • Boons converted to vulnerability: 2
    • Vulnerability|3| (10s): 3% Incoming Damage; 3% Incoming Condition Damage
    • Stone range: 1200
    • Staff strike range: 150

    Projectile behavior reworked to match something similar to with that of Revenant [Hammer Bolt].

    [Eruption] (2)
    Activation: 1¼s / Recharge: 6s
    Shake the earth, crippling foes. At the end of this skill's duration, the ground erupts, bleeding and damaging foes. If this skill combos with a fire field, it also blinds and burns nearby foes while granting barrier to nearby allies.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Number of allies: 5
    • Duration: 3s
    • Shake damage: (0.5)
    • Shake crippled (3s): -50% Movement Speed
    • Eruption damage: (1.25)
    • Eruption bleeding |6| (10s): [damage]
    • Barrier: 1496 (0.125)
    • Blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses.
    • Burning|3| (6s): [damage]
    • Radius: 240
    • Combo Finisher: Blast
    • Range: 1200

    The cripple and initial “shake” damage occurs immediately after cast resolution; eruption damage occurs at the very end of the skill's duration.
    Only the final, eruption damage packet counts as the skill's Blast Finisher.
    The “shaking rock” animation present during the skill's delay period needs to be re-sized in order to accurately match the actual AoE.

    [Magnetic Aura] (3a)
    * Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.
    * Aura duration reduced from 5s to 4s.

    [Transmute Earth] (3b)
    Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s
    Detonate your magnetic aura and knock back adjacent foes. Grant barrier to adjacent allies.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Knockback: 400
    • Unblockable
    • Number of allies: 5
    • Barrier: 2487 (0.125)
    • Radius: 180

    [Unsteady Ground] (4)
    * Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s.

    [Shockwave] (5)
    Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 25s
    Slam the ground with your staff and create a cascading shockwave. All impacts immobilize foes. The middle impact also weakens foes. The closest impact inflicts all prior conditions and also blinds and dazes foes.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Number of impacts: 3
    • Impact damage: (0.5)
    • Immobilize (2s): Unable to move.
    • Weakness (5s): Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage)
    • Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses.
    • Dazed: 1s
    • Range: 1200

    Hitbox, attack animation and skill usage now equivalent to Revenant [Coalesence of Ruin]. Use the Elementalist [Ring of Earth] model asset for each impact animation.

    I have to say I really like your suggestion, especially for Flame Burst. Since the beginning of the game, I found that skill especially lacking. As somebody once said its only use is to keep up the 10% dmg modifier from the fire trait line in solo situations which is rather underwhelming if you ask me. The idea with a second explosion sounds nice. I had the thought of recreating the gw1 skill searing flames with it.
    Increasing its size to 240 and have the skill differentiate if a foe is burning or not. If not deal 2 stacks same as now on the other side if the target is already burning deal an explosion with high damage to already burning foes in the location but with no burning application.
    Nevertheless, I would like your suggestion as well although this would mostly only work in groups as burning is not one of staff major points.

    For staff there are 4 other skills that I would want to see changed the most: Gale, Shockwave, Eruption and Ice Spike.
    For shockwave I like your suggestion as I had the same thing in mind using a coalescence of ruin design. I am just wondering that you would fix shockwave but not Gale as they have the same problem. Gale is equal slow as shockwave, so incredible slow that hitting with it is near impossible. It feels so awful to use. I suggested changing this in a mesmer gs 5 with a smaller cone but higher range. That way it would get some impact.

    Ice Spike and Eruption are sharing the same problem again. The 3-second delay kills them from being useful in my opinion. While the intention is having enough time to cast a file over it, combos in general have been more or less outpaced by power creep. What does a single blast in a fire field value? Nothing. A water blast might be more useful but as fast paced as gw2 is a 1 ¼ cast time combined with a 3-second delay means you're probably dead before you see it finish.
    That's why I would change these skills to have at least some effect in between. I like therefore your idea of eruption dealing cripple from the start, if I have understood this right. Just to toss an idea here, I thought of it having 3 quakes. First only ⅓ of the current size dealing low damage and cripple. Second pulse ⅔ of current size with a little higher amount of damage and cripple and last pulse being the high damage blast we have now.
    For Ice Spike I thought more in the direction of several small Spikes with low damage bombarding the area to dish out at least a little pressure instead of sitting there dead for 3 seconds.

    Earth and Water auto attack might need some changes as well. The boon corruption on stoning might be a nice addition. My biggest issue is its slowness which gives it a clunky feeling. If speeding up would help, I don’t know. Maybe another change would be better here. Same for the water auto attack. It feels awkward to use. But I am not a real fan of any kind of healing in gw2. In gw1 at least you could target your heals to keep the guy under the worst pressure alive. Gw2 feels off here, just throw your heals somewhere and hope for the best. So I am at loss hot to make this one more useful.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    [Flame Burst]
    Extra damage to Burning foes doesn't make a whole lot of sense here as it's the only skill in the kit that actually inflicts the needed burn. With a 10 second cd you'll never hit your own burn. Ofc in a raid scenario a boss would be permanently burning assuming there's atleast 1 Guardian in the squad, so in that sense sure.

    That latter part was the reason for the conditional damage amplification: it brings up ele's DPS in a team environment while also just being a consistent field hazard in practice. As for the 2 stacks of 6s burning, they would still contribute to a 20% damage increase, which is pretty substantial and something which I consider built into the skill (and it would put the base damage on a 2-stack burning target up to somewhere around Eruption range).

    [Burning Retreat]
    I would normalize the recharge to be the same as in Twist of Fate, 5 seconds. That 1 second window between this ending and getting access to the next ammo charge can be covered with a normal dodge, making this skill too strong with a 2 second recharge.

    Perfectly fair point. Ultimately, the point of the low-recharge, ammo designs in this collection of suggestions was mostly be to allow players to be extremely flexible with their usage of said skills, but it might end up just being a bit too much spam potential in some cases. That said, it's not like a 5s recharge isn't still very accessible if a player has 2 charges in the tank.

    [Frozen Ground]
    I think the revive speed penalty is too severe. Depending on how this is implemented, your opponent could end up doing damage by trying to res if the ressee also has Poison on them, and that violates core design aspects of the game. You did forget about Poison, right?

    Conditions in GW2 nowadays are effectively just damage: a horrendously bloated, mechanical dead-end of the game. Yes, they carry some powerful bonus effects, but the only thing that stacks is just damage, which has ultimately become their main feature. So, yes, I can honestly say that I forgot about poison (especially when things like revive traits just raise downed HP straight through whatever sort of pressure is applied anyway; I can attest to that as someone who frequently uses the Arcane Resurrection trait). That said, an additional revival penalty which could stack on top of poison would be a neat flair to an otherwise somewhat under-performing skill.

    -25% or -33% would be my suggestion. Probably -33% so it's like a proto-Poison.
    Even with that this skill would be OP af. Ammo? 4 second duration? I'd put this on a 3 second duration with no ammo, and keep the current recharge. Should also rip Stab and Resi on placement, and the inflicted Chill could be 3 seconds.

    Inflicting stab and resi on placement seems like a very interesting compromise, but I still hate how this game seems replete with consistently renewing sources of immunity buffs like stability (either via forms, un-strippable, passive buffs or traits). If Frozen Ground provided a persistent debuff which constantly kept stab and resi off of targets within its AoE, it would be a temporary safety zone and huge field hazard without resorting to something as super cheesy and low effort as Rampage, block chains or instant burst. It would be a huge theat, but a threat around which players on both sides could still make moves, and that's the paradigm that I'm trying to preserve and enhance with the current Elementalist staff kit.

    The ammo at least has a CD of 50s, which either means that someone paces their usage of the skill, blows it both because a team really needs to lock down a particular target, or perhaps even chooses to use one Frozen Ground entirely for its chill-application purposes but is still allowed an extra Frozen Ground in the tank for perhaps stopping a target bathed in stability. The goal is flexiblity; not overpowered memery. To that end, I'd still be willing to make some concessions if people feel that it's too strong. I mentioned earlier in the thread about maybe reducing the AoE down to 180 (Lava Font sized), but reducing the duration down to 3s is also something to consider; raising the ammo cooldown to 60s might also be an option, but I would really like to keep the ammo count just because of how incredibly utilitarian it makes the skill without resorting to GW2 meta designs like full-blown lock-downs with simultaneous damage.

    [Stoning]
    Maybe just 1 Boon though. Boon removal is a strong effect, and wading into melee with Stone Heart and a foe with Weakness is not a big deal even as an ele. You can make entire builds around an interaction this strong. Which is good but 2 is still too strong.
    Btw, is this a physical projectile and does it Pierce?

    Reasonable power reduction. It would be a physical projectile; no piercing. I had considered suggesting that it behave like Fireball (splash on impact; small AoE), but I'm not sure that AoE, multi-target weakness (even if it were 1.5s with a 120 max radius) would be all that fair for opponents. That said, I feel that the melee aspect of the skill provides enough cleave potential. The biggest point, however, is that the Stoning projectile would just need to be replaced. It's arc is huge and the projectile tends to wander off into low orbit against any moving target; it would be better if it flew along the same trajectory as something like Ranger's Long Range Shot or something (but not with the stupid 1800 range).

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    I want to preface this with the fact that everything I say is something said of out respect and for the sake of constructive criticism, and I appreciate you reading the post. I also want to say that while I agree that a lot of the skills which you personally highlighted are in need of some changes or outright buffs, I do not necessarily agree with the way in which you went about buffing them (as they mostly remind me of how anet changes things in PvP).

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    pretty cool ideas man. ive had a few bouncing around inside my head:
    fire 4 - is also a leap so you can get fire aura

    Considering that ele can get a free fire aura just by attuning to fire along with all of the aura generation on tempest, I think that I would rather give a leap to a utility skill with some value rather than just slap it onto Burning Retreat.

    if you run fire, which support ele doesn't do.

    That's why I would rather re-work a utility skill into a strong ability with a combo finisher which would allow any ele build to get a fire aura. I just want to reduce as many "gimmies" as possible.

    water auto - unblockable (spam dem heals!)

    If you want to spam heals, you can just unlock from a target and free-aim your water autos at the ground. They will still apply healing even if they strike no targets. This same tactic can be used with fireball in order to snipe stealthed targets. Splash properties on skills is a super utilitarian aspect because it frees players from being bound to this game's horrid targeting system (and its also the reason why I also thought about giving the same property to earth autos).

    this is so water auto cant get reflected in wvw fights. could also just remove the damage since its puny anyways, but that would be wonky imo.

    Ah, right, yeah, I could imagine that WvW is coated in Feedbacks and reflect walls. Maybe just re-work a worthless trait into something which would just outright swap Water Blast with something like the Engineer Healing Kit auto?

    water 2 - 1/2 sec daze

    That's just more of what the meta provides. It isn't really a fair or creative effect. Getting hit by an ice spike is punishment enough considering that it deals full-power meteor damage. If anything, it could maybe get an unlockable trait or even a 2 ammo count with a 10s count recharge, but any other change would probably just be better off as a total skill rework.

    don't disagree. its to help with 1v1s which staff is horrid at.

    I personally don't feel that every weapon set has to be good at everything. In fact, following that paradigm removes any sort of identity or playstyle from the game (which is why the current GW2 PvP metagame is basically just 6 versions of the same build in different flavors).

    air 2 - cd reduced by 2 sec and instant cast

    This would be super cancerous. It already deals ludicrous damage (nearly on par with Ice Spike), and it's very easy to land. It also blinds. It requires at least a 1s cast time in order to be fair.

    air 2 takes forever to cast for how much it does. so what if it does a lot of damage? nerf the coefficient a bit then. air is supposed to be the "fast cast" element anyways.

    As anecdotal as this is, I have to absolutely stand firm on how many Lighting Surges I land in ranked matches. Once a user has an on-the-fly grasp for 1200 range, they become incredibly easy to land, and I often use them as an opener or while following opponents who don't necessarily know that I am tailing them from nearby. It's also pretty effective if the cast is started and then the user jumps into the air, allowing the cast to resolve while mid-air.

    air 3 - cd reduced by 10 sec

    No real need. Maybe, MAYBE a 5s CD reduction, but ultimately it's not entirely necessary (especially considering how my suggestion adds more CC options to earth).

    i guess. its a very underwhelming skill.

    I run fire-air-arcane staff in PvP, and having Gust that inflicts weakness and 4k damage on a 25s CD is absolutely nuts. It used to be a lot worse to use, but at least it hits somewhat reliably now: its hitbox is pretty meaty, and it's quite valuable for interrupting desperation stomps. It's also a near-instant knock-back in melee range which can be fired directly behind the user while running in the opposite direction. It could maybe use a buff, but I'm not sure what it would get which wouldn't just make it more insane that what I already experience when using it. I mean, I outright kill dudes with Gust. I kill people with the wind fart which everyone considers worthless, man. It's absolutely insane.

    earth 2 - 1/2 cast time 1/2 sec daze

    Basically same complaint that I have with the Ice Spike suggestion. It threatens a huge area for 3s already, and it hits hard. It doesn't need to daze, and the 1200 range means that it doesn't need a 0.5s cast-time.

    same as water 2. it also takes forever to activate, most people just walk out of it.

    Since you are speaking from a WvW perspective, I can see where you're coming from with a lot of these thoughts. Although, if you noticed, I did move the cripple to the front of the skill's total resolution time. At the moment that the cast resolves, the skill would inflict cripple. Moreover, I would personally rather try to balance these skills from team-limited instances such as PvP (or even PvE) rather than trying to balance around a mode which not only features insane player statlines but also inherently imbalanced participation numbers among teams and combat encounters. That's not a knock against the WvW players, it just a worry about what it would mean to apply balances made to open-field, no-objective combat to places with more restricted combat spaces and limited team participants.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019

    @Mithos.9023 said:
    I have to say I really like your suggestion, especially for Flame Burst. Since the beginning of the game, I found that skill especially lacking. As somebody once said its only use is to keep up the 10% dmg modifier from the fire trait line in solo situations which is rather underwhelming if you ask me. The idea with a second explosion sounds nice. I had the thought of recreating the gw1 skill searing flames with it.
    Increasing its size to 240 and have the skill differentiate if a foe is burning or not. If not deal 2 stacks same as now on the other side if the target is already burning deal an explosion with high damage to already burning foes in the location but with no burning application.

    I mainly just wanted to free the skill from the GW2 targeting system, but ultimately I came back to, yes, how underwhelming and bloaty the skill feels sitting next to titans like evade roll, meteor shower, persistent AoE damage field and fireball crits; so I gave it the delayed explosion for more field threats.

    Nevertheless, I would like your suggestion as well although this would mostly only work in groups as burning is not one of staff major points.

    Yeah, the point was basically to just make it a standalone damage threat in PvP, but turn it into a huge DPS rotation booster in PvE (with the right teammates: even something like a Scourge would boost the DPS pretty substantially, so it wouldn't really require a dedicated flame boi like a burn Guardian or something; Banner Berserker is also still pretty meta, I think).

    For staff there are 4 other skills that I would want to see changed the most: Gale, Shockwave, Eruption and Ice Spike.
    For shockwave I like your suggestion as I had the same thing in mind using a coalescence of ruin design. I am just wondering that you would fix shockwave but not Gale as they have the same problem. Gale is equal slow as shockwave, so incredible slow that hitting with it is near impossible. It feels so awful to use. I suggested changing this in a mesmer gs 5 with a smaller cone but higher range. That way it would get some impact.

    You know, considering how many people have brought it up, it's funny how I hung up I was over Ice Spike and Eruption while making this list. I originally had an Ice Spike re-work slated for this as well as a different Eruption one, but I just kept thinking, "This is just turning into another Lava Font." I don't disagree that they could each use something different about them (particularly Ice Spike).

    Gust is super strong with a Lightning Rod build, but yes, you are right in saying how it sort of flops about without much potential on its own. I had thought of turning it into an AoE, mid-range cone, but I also hate losing out on a 1200 range, linear push (a super strong effect). I personally don't really see an absolute need to buff it, but I could maybe think of a few ways:

    • Reduce recharge to 20s or 15s.
    • Turn it into a 2-stock ammo ability with a 5s skill recharge and a 30s count recharge.
    • Add a very short-range cone to the skill (maybe 200 range; hits up to 5 targets) which applies its effect concurrently with the Gust projectile itself and launches struck foes (600 range launch). At least, the melee-range cone would give the skill some more utility with positioning-based risk or reaction as well as giving the Elementalist a way to possibly mitigate the issue with the projectile hitting a target (i.e. burn a Lightning Flash and follow up with Gust for a more guaranteed forced-movement CC).

    I still feel like the third buff idea is super redundant, though, because I never have trouble hitting Gust now if I just Lightning Flash into melee range (and I don't really think that slapping an Illusionary Wave on top of the most favorable aspect of the skill--a 1200 range push--would be all that balanced). Furthermore, the skill's hitbox has been enlarged considerably since its original iterations back from around 2012-13, and it can simultaneously strike multiple players standing in file next to each other (I even have some evidence of its lenient hitbox detection in a video I made something like 2 days ago).

    Ice Spike and Eruption are sharing the same problem again. The 3-second delay kills them from being useful in my opinion. While the intention is having enough time to cast a file over it, combos in general have been more or less outpaced by power creep. What does a single blast in a fire field value? Nothing. A water blast might be more useful but as fast paced as gw2 is a 1 ¼ cast time combined with a 3-second delay means you're probably dead before you see it finish.

    I still hold by the strongest aspect of those skills is how they apply a sort of danger threat to a designated area for a prolonged period of time: either players will have to avoid the area or play in it knowing that they will have to burn a dodge or some other cooldown just to avoid a big hit later on. It's a risk factor, which is something I want to see more of rather than just resorting to GW2 meta prescriptions like "faster damage" or "CC with damage" or "being immune to incoming effects."

    That's why I would change these skills to have at least some effect in between. I like therefore your idea of eruption dealing cripple from the start, if I have understood this right. Just to toss an idea here, I thought of it having 3 quakes. First only ⅓ of the current size dealing low damage and cripple. Second pulse ⅔ of current size with a little higher amount of damage and cripple and last pulse being the high damage blast we have now.

    I had exactly the same idea at one point, but then I also thought of inverting that same idea: like a Reaper Nightfall in reverse. The reason why I liked the inverse better (start as a big AoE and shrink to a smaller one over the course of a fixed duration) is because one could inherently give the increasingly smaller AoEs respectively stronger and stronger effects without them being too unfair (considering that they are losing size and are therefore easier to avoid), but also because Elementalist staff has a metric ton of area control via hard and soft CC. Something like a reverse Nightfall with a huge, ending pay-off would fit right into the same weapon bar as Unsteady Ground and Shockwave while also just serving as a big AoE threat without hard CC present.

    For Ice Spike I thought more in the direction of several small Spikes with low damage bombarding the area to dish out at least a little pressure instead of sitting there dead for 3 seconds.

    Like I said, I did want to avoid "another Lava Font," but something like "multiple Ice Spikes" might not be a bad idea.

    Earth and Water auto attack might need some changes as well. The boon corruption on stoning might be a nice addition. My biggest issue is its slowness which gives it a clunky feeling. If speeding up would help, I don’t know. Maybe another change would be better here. Same for the water auto attack. It feels awkward to use. But I am not a real fan of any kind of healing in gw2. In gw1 at least you could target your heals to keep the guy under the worst pressure alive. Gw2 feels off here, just throw your heals somewhere and hope for the best. So I am at loss hot to make this one more useful.

    I could almost still go for the idea I suggested up in response to the person who was worried about having a Water auto heal for WvW: just re-work one of the 95% of trash traits in order to outright change it to a full-on heal cone. As for re-working the current one, I'm also sort of at a loss.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    After reading a lot of the thoughts in the thread, I went ahead and tried developing some changes for Ice Spike and Gust as we as some alternative ideas for Eruption and Frozen Ground. If people find them acceptable, I'll probably just put them in the OP.

    WATER

    [Ice Spikes] (2a)

    Activation: ¾s / Recharge: 8s
    Conjure ice spikes to drop upon foes.

    • Number of casts: 3

    This skill now functions identically to a Firebrand mantra: three total charges which regenerate at a constant rate; the final charge is a more powerful version of the first two charges.

    [Ice Spike] (2b)
    Recharge: ½s
    Drop an ice spike at the target area.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Damage: (1.0)
    • Charge Recovery: 6s
    • Combo Finisher: Blast
    • Radius: 180
    • Range: 1200

    Behaves identically to the current [Ice Spike] skill except with an instant cast, a smaller radius and a much shorter delay time between activation and damage (ideally should be around 1-1½s).

    There shouldn't be a need to re-scale the "ice spike" model asset which appears above the target area during the delay animation; it is already more or less accurately scaled to a 180-radius attack.

    [Ice Spike] (2c)
    Recharge: ½s
    Drop an ice spike at the target area.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Damage: (1.0)
    • Charge Recovery: 6s
    • Radius: 180
    • Range: 1200

    Identical to the first cast except it does not yield a blast finisher. The blast finisher is kept only on the first skill in this “mantra chain” for the sake of easy access to the blast without the overall chain being overpowered due to multiple blast finishers on a low CD.

    [Ice Spear] (2d)
    Cast-time: ¾s / Recharge: ½s
    Hurl a huge ice spear that shatters on impact, slowing and immobilizing foes.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Damage: (1.44)
    • Immobilize (1s): Unable to move.
    • Slow (2½s): Skills and actions are slower.
    • Charge Recovery: 6s
    • Radius: 240
    • Range: 1200

    Behaves identically to Warrior [Arcing Shot].

    [Frozen Ground] (4)

    Recharge: 5s
    Initially remove defensive boons from foes in the target area; for a short time, those foes cannot gain defensive boons, and they revive slower. Target area chills foes at every interval.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Initial Boons Removed: [Stability], [Resistance]
    • Initial Frozen Ground (2½s): Incoming Stability and Resistance are immediately removed; -33% Revive Speed
    • Chilled (2s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement Speed
    • Interval: 1s
    • Duration: 4s
    • Radius: 240
    • Combo Field: Ice
    • Maximum Count: 2
    • Count Recharge: 45s
    • Range: 1200
    • Unblockable

    The skill only removes boons and applies the Frozen Ground debuff to foes within the initial target area upon cast resolution. Afterward, the AoE only pulses the chill at every interval.

    AIR

    [Gust] (3)

    Activation: 1s / Recharge: 20s
    Release an air burst that knocks foes backward. If you fully channel this skill and release it, you instead whirl forward, knocking back foes along your path.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Air burst knockback: 400
    • Air burst range: 1200
    • Number of Whirl Impacts: 8
    • Whirl knockback: 400
    • Whirl evade: ½s
    • Whirl radius: 130
    • Whirl range: 900
    • Combo Finisher: Whirl

    This skill's minimal channel time will be ¼s (same as its current cast-time). If a player were to simply press and release the skill button immediately, this skill would execute immediately after it hit the minimal channel time threshold, resulting in the current iteration of the skill. The listed “activation time” in the tool-tip denotes the “full channel” which is required for the player to perform the whirl attack. The channel can be maintained at full charge, allowing a player to charge up the whirl, hold down the button and then deploy it later upon releasing the button.

    The whirl attack's movement behavior and travel distance are respectively identical to the Fiery Greatsword skill [Fiery Whirl].

    EARTH

    [Eruption] (2)

    Activation: 1s / Recharge: 8s
    Shake the ground, crippling foes, then damage foes with a series of eruptions.

    • Number of targets: 5
    • Shake damage: (0.5)
    • Shake crippled (3s): -50% Movement Speed
    • Shake radius: 240
    • First eruption damage: (0.75)
    • First eruption bleeding|4| (10s): [damage]
    • Second eruption damage: (1.0)
    • Second eruption bleeding|6| (10s): [damage]
    • Second eruption blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses.
    • Eruption radius: 180
    • Second eruption Combo Finisher: Blast
    • Range: 1200

    This skill initially strikes the target area with a 240 radius AoE (and correspoding reticle) which inflicts the “shake” damage and cripple. At the center of this AoE, a 180 radius area will pulse twice, dealing the “first” and “second” eruption damage and effects respectively at the end of its 2-second duration (akin to how Lava Font has a slight “delay” on its opening damage due to how it pulses at the end of each second throughout its duration). All totaled, the entire chain of attacks takes 3 seconds to resolve counting the 1s activation time.

    Only the second eruption strike counts as the Blast Finisher.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    I like most of Fire changes, Burning Retreat would feel a lot better with 2 charges and increasing the co-efficient of Lava Font and Meteor Shower a bit is fine.

    Regarding Water changes; Frozen Ground: I find it way too strong to prevent incoming boons (Res & Stab), simply because WoE of warrior's would look like a joke, given how these 2 boons are quite powerful, and considered to be of the strongest ones outside of PvE. Other than that, I don't mind the initial boon removal.

    Gust looks good, similar to Rev's.

    I would prefer a Slow on earth auto attack, than boon removal, but since we lack any boon control, it's really frustrating, however, we can make boon removal/conversion on #5 with the Shockwave effect, like 900/1200 range Immobilize and 600 range boon control. For Unsteady Ground, lower CD and better hitbox.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Regarding Water changes; Frozen Ground: I find it way too strong to prevent incoming boons (Res & Stab), simply because WoE of warrior's would look like a joke, given how these 2 boons are quite powerful, and considered to be of the strongest ones outside of PvE. Other than that, I don't mind the initial boon removal.

    Those boons are too powerful, and there isn't really a consistent way to remove them throughout the game. There should always be a strong tug-o-war system at play if we are going to constantly have to deal with people just mindlessly walking through obvious or well-placed CC. Two and a half seconds is not oppressive, considering that players would still have dodges, evades and blocks available to them even if they were stripped of resi and stab. Moreover, pulsing instances of such boons would only be disabled for that short time, which means that the Frozen Ground debuff is more of a brief window for offensive coordination than anything oppressive like Rampage, Boonbeast taking 0 damage while attacking or any Mesmer doing anything with a full bar of CDs to blow.

    This game needs means to disable stab and resi for brief windows in order to bring more variability to combat. As of now, everything is so locked into PvE-tier skill rotations, that there isn't much difference between PvP combat and fractal runs outside of juggling capture points. Simply stripping the two boons at the outset with no further boon suppression is not enough to fight that paradigm. Players can't keep getting reward for ultimately making bad decisions. Freely earned boons shouldn't carry players like this.

    Gust looks good, similar to Rev's.

    It wouldn't knock people around so absurdly, at the very least. Considering that it's a linear, greatsword spin attack, it would hit targets only twice at the very most. It would also be nice to have a movement option on the Elementalist staff kit outside of Burning Retreat.

    I would prefer a Slow on earth auto attack, than boon removal, but since we lack any boon control, it's really frustrating, however, we can make boon removal/conversion on #5 with the Shockwave effect, like 900/1200 range Immobilize and 600 range boon control. For Unsteady Ground, lower CD and better hitbox.

    I don't think that anybody needs an auto-attack access to slow. I personally don't even believe that slow belongs in the game. It's just an arbitrary, flavor-based addition to mirror quickness; and the fact that it's just a flavor addition shows in its overall prevalence and in how little impact it generally has on combat across all player modes in GW2. I do, however, like the idea of moving boon removal to Shockwave and then increasing the amount of boons removed (considering the longer cooldown). I'd be open to other suggestions for "making up" the loss of conditional boon removal from Stoning (although, giving it a potential double-hit effect along with a re-worked projectile for more consistent application of weakness seems like a pretty strong re-work already).

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2019

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Regarding Water changes; Frozen Ground: I find it way too strong to prevent incoming boons (Res & Stab), simply because WoE of warrior's would look like a joke, given how these 2 boons are quite powerful, and considered to be of the strongest ones outside of PvE. Other than that, I don't mind the initial boon removal.

    Those boons are too powerful, and there isn't really a consistent way to remove them throughout the game. There should always be a strong tug-o-war system at play if we are going to constantly have to deal with people just mindlessly walking through obvious or well-placed CC. Two and a half seconds is not oppressive, considering that players would still have dodges, evades and blocks available to them even if they were stripped of resi and stab. Moreover, pulsing instances of such boons would only be disabled for that short time, which means that the Frozen Ground debuff is more of a brief window for offensive coordination than anything oppressive like Rampage, Boonbeast taking 0 damage while attacking or any Mesmer doing anything with a full bar of CDs to blow.

    My only issue with it is Winds of Disenchantment would be kind of useless as the only boon left would be Protection, and that's nothing compared to the other 2 boons.

    This game needs means to disable stab and resi for brief windows in order to bring more variability to combat. As of now, everything is so locked into PvE-tier skill rotations, that there isn't much difference between PvP combat and fractal runs outside of juggling capture points. Simply stripping the two boons at the outset with no further boon suppression is not enough to fight that paradigm. Players can't keep getting reward for ultimately making bad decisions. Freely earned boons shouldn't carry players like this.

    We're no longer that much of a thing in PvE either, but my only concern is for SpB players.

    I don't think that anybody needs an auto-attack access to slow. I personally don't even believe that slow belongs in the game. It's just an arbitrary, flavor-based addition to mirror quickness; and the fact that it's just a flavor addition shows in its overall prevalence and in how little impact it generally has on combat across all player modes in GW2. I do, however, like the idea of moving boon removal to Shockwave and then increasing the amount of boons removed (considering the longer cooldown). I'd be open to other suggestions for "making up" the loss of conditional boon removal from Stoning (although, giving it a potential double-hit effect along with a re-worked projectile for more consistent application of weakness seems like a pretty strong re-work already).

    I mean, Alacrity shouldn't have existed in the first place, it caused 3+ years of Chrono only and continuing, with only its providers being viable in PvE. Weakening and Slowing down attacks while on the worst dueling weapon would be quite good imo, but to each their own. For the auto attack, Mesmer only has access to boon removal and its only useful as a boon bot in PvE on a melee weapon, so boon removal from 1200 range is quite broken. I don't know what else to put into this auto attack to make it worth using, but boon removal is strong, and Slow seems to not be good.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2019

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Regarding Water changes; Frozen Ground: I find it way too strong to prevent incoming boons (Res & Stab), simply because WoE of warrior's would look like a joke, given how these 2 boons are quite powerful, and considered to be of the strongest ones outside of PvE. Other than that, I don't mind the initial boon removal.

    Those boons are too powerful, and there isn't really a consistent way to remove them throughout the game. There should always be a strong tug-o-war system at play if we are going to constantly have to deal with people just mindlessly walking through obvious or well-placed CC. Two and a half seconds is not oppressive, considering that players would still have dodges, evades and blocks available to them even if they were stripped of resi and stab. Moreover, pulsing instances of such boons would only be disabled for that short time, which means that the Frozen Ground debuff is more of a brief window for offensive coordination than anything oppressive like Rampage, Boonbeast taking 0 damage while attacking or any Mesmer doing anything with a full bar of CDs to blow.

    My only issue with it is Winds of Disenchantment would be kind of useless as the only boon left would be Protection, and that's nothing compared to the other 2 boons.

    This game needs means to disable stab and resi for brief windows in order to bring more variability to combat. As of now, everything is so locked into PvE-tier skill rotations, that there isn't much difference between PvP combat and fractal runs outside of juggling capture points. Simply stripping the two boons at the outset with no further boon suppression is not enough to fight that paradigm. Players can't keep getting reward for ultimately making bad decisions. Freely earned boons shouldn't carry players like this.

    We're no longer that much of a thing in PvE either, but my only concern is for SpB players.

    If spellbreakers are your only concern, then they still have a load of blocks and evades on their weapon bars as well as passive stun breaks, a huge HP pool, regular dodges and rampage to reposition. They should really be fine without stab or resi for 2.5s at a time. If it ever gets too bad, then they just bring some more passive cleanse or swap a utility. It wouldn't be a difficult adaption, and it would only serve to increase the skill ceiling on an egregiously low skill cap rotation class.

    I don't think that anybody needs an auto-attack access to slow. I personally don't even believe that slow belongs in the game. It's just an arbitrary, flavor-based addition to mirror quickness; and the fact that it's just a flavor addition shows in its overall prevalence and in how little impact it generally has on combat across all player modes in GW2. I do, however, like the idea of moving boon removal to Shockwave and then increasing the amount of boons removed (considering the longer cooldown). I'd be open to other suggestions for "making up" the loss of conditional boon removal from Stoning (although, giving it a potential double-hit effect along with a re-worked projectile for more consistent application of weakness seems like a pretty strong re-work already).

    I mean, Alacrity shouldn't have existed in the first place, it caused 3+ years of Chrono only and continuing, with only its providers being viable in PvE. Weakening and Slowing down attacks while on the worst dueling weapon would be quite good imo, but to each their own. For the auto attack, Mesmer only has access to boon removal and its only useful as a boon bot in PvE on a melee weapon, so boon removal from 1200 range is quite broken. I don't know what else to put into this auto attack to make it worth using, but boon removal is strong, and Slow seems to not be good.

    The boon removal on this thread's stoning rework only applies if the melee-range staff attack strikes a target that already has weakness. The ranged projectile component only applies weakness for 1.5s.

    That said, it doesn't mean that we should just cave to the passive, boon/condi spam meta. Giving a slow-inflicting cleave to any class, no matter how "weak" you think the debuff is, is unconscionable because it means that you're just throwing darts at a board to see what might stick rather than thinking of a valuable and fair mechanic with risk and pay-off involved. It's inconvenient and frustrating to fight at against a melee auto which inflicts slow, and yet the skill user might encounter situations where it would be useless. You're just making a skill into Deadeye. Don't do that.

    And in truth, chrono was the first real role in GW2 that wasn't just a basic DPS. It's not the chrono or alacrity's fault that this came about, but rather anet and GW2's lack of depth as a game which allowed a single class to have every valuable buff in the game fit comfortably onto its bar. Given all that, I also agree that alacrity never belonged either.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    Took a bunch of feedback to heart and updated the top post. In short order:

    • I feel like the proposed buffs to fire were enough to cut some damage and utility from earth.
    • Frozen Ground no longer applies an anti-stab/resi debuff with every pulse, but instead it just removes resi and stab on cast. This effect was also added to Shockwave's middle and closest impact. By spreading this effect out between two skills on two different attunements, it provides a lot of active CC support (CC being the strongest feature of staff ele in PvP) without it being too overpowered in huge team environments like WvW.
    • Stoning got a re-worked secondary effect because the boon removal aspect was refocused into Shockwave. Might be overpowered or worthless, but it's something a bit different; feel free to criticize it.
    • A simpler suggestion for a more easy-to-use Ice Spike.

    I really appreciate the discussion produced from this thread, and I welcome any continued commentary if anyone feels like throwing up some more responses. There were a lot of good ideas here, and it's not like the edit button will stop existing any time soon.

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