How to counter Warriors or at-least disengage

Skills that CC in total of 10 secs rampage(~70s CD)with peak performance + 20% damage for all physical skillswith bodyblow trait, every CC inflict 3s weakness foes inflict less dmg, have less endurance so less dodgewith Dispelling Force boons are removed for every CCThrow boulder(8s CD)(range 900) : 2 secs Stun 2 timesSeismic Leap(10s CD)(r 600) : 2 sec Knockdown 1 time -> idk this one feels like r900 during battleKick(4s CD) : knockback 3 timesUppercut(2s chain): 0.5s Daze 5 timesBull charge(24s CD)(r 900): 3s Knockdown *1 time(traited, movement skills remove immobilized)

balanced stance(40s CD): PULSE 2 stack stability for 4 secrampage: PULSE 2 stack stability for 3 sec

the problem with pulsing stability is, even if we use boon removal or remove it with a CC skill, it just comes back and ensure the player doesn't get CC'd

and everytime a warrior hits like a truck

Stuff that I find makes my escape plan to always go south:8s total CC and ~12 possible times it can be inflicted upon othersall the while, the warrior enjoys 14s of uninterrupted skill usage with rampage and balanced stance cast after one finishes1500 range quick movement skills to close gaps and inflict neverending CCs to the target so escape is impossible for a mediocre/low skilled players(idk about high skilled players)

At this point, I want to know all the possible ways we can escape from warriors

chill, cripple might help but during fights, I couldn't notice any difference in their movement/mobility when I inflict chilled/crippledImmobilize is totally waste against warriors that I learned the hard way(entangle elite utility is a paper against firey scissor)

Kiting is hard when dealing with warriors... First I tried using LB but It's not reliable against warriors head on... only good thing about LB against a warrior is Hunter shot but that fails 30% of the time its a hit or miss stuff

even if I use birds swoop to get away, they catchup to me most of the time but I remember escaping a few times though

I wish to know how to react and what skills traits to use to counter warriors...

As Of now, my cowardly strategy :p is to use a stunbreak(if I'm CCd) and quickly use SOTP, fight 5 secs and then run away with bird swoop, hornet sting and monarch leap...

Fighting Holos is kinda fighting a warrior... but atleast I can kite and wait for their heat or avoid their AOE CC and re-engage but warriors hit like a truck and most of the time, the damage I inflict says 0 or not crit at all and all low numbers

Also I like to know my list of options to disengage safely while encountering a warrior

Also, Is Condi the perfect counter against warriors? Coz, most of the time when I look at fights between necro and warrior, necro/scourge always wins or the warrior runs away at 30% health... and when I look at them both going spin to win mode, its always the necro who wins... but necro spin is a meele damage isn't it? how come they can inflict considerable dmg to warriors

No hate plz.... suggestions r velkome ;)

TLDR;How would you guys disengage safely from a warrior

Tl dr... Please

@FyzE.3472 said:Tl dr... Please

R u a Warrior main? :o

If so, what really annoys you in a fight? CC? Condi? Stealth? plz answer honestly... I'll change my build to exactly that :p

Maybe I should've posted it in warrior and ranger forum at teh same time... that'd give me some ideas on what warriors hate and what rangers usually do to counter warriors... If only this forum could allow me to create a link in both sub forums ;) Oh well, its late

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:Tl dr... Please

I'd say condi and inability to catch up to people when I mess up my mobility skills (yes, my fault, but still feels awful to die "on your way" to the target you could two-threesot)

I'm not concerned with how to disengage a warrior so much as how impossible it is to catch a spellbreaker once the fight goes poorly for them. Not even 2400 units of teleportion can keep up with potentially 5,800 units of disengage potential on warriors.

or you chew throught all it's stun breaks or you apply tons of condi pressure, pistol mesmer is the hardest match up to me, because they're doing both things well.

holo is also annoying due to all those cc

Necros in general is a 50/50 match up

I've been doing pretry well against rangers with this new build that allows me to be always in their face, when I was playing the defense one they could kite me more easily

war vs war is a battle of who lands the stuns better

all other match ups seems favorable

But again, i'm gold 2 things can be different in your bracket

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:No escape ! :joy:https://www.twitch.tv/toxiclary/clip/ZanyTenderPuddingGingerPower?filter=clips&range=all&sort=timeJokes aside... Or you have all your defensive cooldowns ready or you being two shotted by 10k from nearly every skill, mesmer had protection ,I had no might even

Find your resident thief and ask them to steal + blindspam if they're running dagger/pistol. It isn't too hard to remove Warr's resistance (if they used Signet before Rampage) as they don't have many boons in the first place to cover it. A Scourge can also boonrip/convert, making it much easier to CC them. Blinds in general will screw them over hard since everything is slow, single hit and telegraphed.

Otherwise, keep track of their attacks - IIRC you want to dodge everything except kick (So the charge, boulder, and leap), and move unpredictably to make sure they have a rough time trying to land their AAs if they try that (which hurt, but are /extremely/ slow). Rampage also means they have two dodges and...that's it. No healing, blocks, etc unless they switch out. It isn't too hard to just dump a ton of damage to force them to drop rampage if in a teamfight (which they probably shouldn't be in anyway).

Assuming you're alone, and it seeeeems like you're a ranger/soulbeast...I hope you're running the tankier version w/axe xD Otherwise you are ever so slightly screwed.

If they use Rampage right off the bat, you can be a little more daring. Mightstacks come from landing Full Counter, and if you can deny them landing that skill, their damage won't be near as scary. Be mindful of what your pet is doing else you'll give them free sustain and damage boost.

Stealth is good if you have it (smoke field -> leap). If you're looking to disengage, try to create distance (cripple, chill, or just dodge rolling an attack - they move sloooow anyway). Only disengage immediately after you're sure they used their #3 skill. You'll have a solid chunk of time to kite as you please.

If you want to be cheeky, you can also try and interrupt everything in the first place. Would be helpful if you posted your exact build though. Doesn't seem like you're running the usual side noder setup, else I'd just say to use Dolyak Stance and dodge their attacks while denying FC, as they'll just tickle you with Prot + Dolyak extra 33% reduction and other evades you may have available + Weakness on axe 3.

@Curennos.9307 said:Would be helpful if you posted your exact build though.

Right now, I've been experimenting with an odd setup...Menders with earth rune or sometimes rune of fighterSword/warhorn, axe/axe

Beastmastery: 3 1 3Nature magic: 1 3 2/3Soulbeast: 2/3 1 3

Bearstance, moastance, sicem, protect me/dolyak, sotp

Pet: gazelle, owl/brownbear

I seem to kill and die a lot when I pew pewed all my fights before menders but now, I get some extra reaction time in team fights and get to stay alive and prepare my burst but... warriors and holos give me a hard time... maybe Im wasting my stability and stunbeaks on low hitting skills... idk... now I'm planning to avoid war and holos al together

rip or corrupt the stab and d se dab

Most classes lack the capacity to fight SB at equal skill level. High damage + high sustainability + too much CC. However, as fighting mostly anything, you engage only when you can deal damage or negate damage. You otherwise kite. Ranger has several evades, CC, stealth and stability. Mistake that most people make is they try to go all in, instead of time things. Example, you do not want to CC SB during rampage. Also, you do not want to dodge randomly.

Generally speaking, given unlimited time and space, Soul Beast should never lose to SB due to range options.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@"Curennos.9307" said:Would be helpful if you posted your exact build though.

I'll skip the whole...this obviously isn't a meta/fully optimized setup, I assume you've heard it all before (https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/ranger/ if you're interested).

For Nature magic - Protective Ward (2) > Invigorating Bond (3). You're also running some stances so I'd change Oppressive Superiority (SB 3) to Leader of the Pack (2) - I've never found the dmg increase via having higher health to be all that consistently useful.

If you haven't already, learn how to disengage with sword 2 - first press to retreat in the direction you want to go, then turn around and detarget + press again to get the second leap in the same direction.

You should have very high weakness uptime due to BM's Wilting Strike. Rotate through that + Axe 3 and beast mode beast skill. If you're going to go menders, I don't quite understand why you're also using sic 'em and taking so many more damage oriented choices. It looks like you're trying to get a well rounded setup, but game design/meta etcetc means you'll just fall short of both the things you need. Maybe mess around with changing between menders/mara/that other amulet that is marauder except toughness instead of vitality.

During Rampage, use Hornet sting to evade their first gap closer/attack. Evades will take care of the first half of their rampage. Dolyak will take care of the other half + weakness if they don't have res going.

I don't think you have enough consistent healing to benefit from Earth Rune 10% healing (or menders for that matter - looks like you're trying to treat your soulbeast like a sword weaver) - leadership would give you better overall boon uptime but sliiiightly less protection.

For warr, look out for bull charge and shield 4. Bull Charge takes precedence over everything when outside of rampage - they do a lil fancy twirl before heading your way. Failing to dodge/stab it means you're taking a pretty hefty chunk of damage in addition to a stun (and should be expecting a follow up Arcing Slice or Hundred Blades).

In this case, your build just won't stand up to a meta spellbreaker. Best of luck with your uphill battle though :)

Edit: Siamoth would be a decent replacement for your Gazelle, I think, what with the stunbreak + physical damage immunity.

@"Curennos.9307" said:

• I've never found the dmg increase via having higher health to be all that consistently useful.I'll check it out...

If you haven't already, learn how to disengage with sword 2 - first press to retreat in the direction you want to go, then turn around and detarget + press again to get the second leap in the same direction.

Yeah... I've been using this it helped me a few times to get out of near down situations

During Rampage, use Hornet sting to evade their first gap closer/attack. Evades will take care of the first half of their rampage. Dolyak will take care of the other half + weakness if they don't have res going.

This tip sounds really good... I often leave the warrior to use up their rampage 4 & 5 and then use stunbreak for some weird belief that those can easily interrupt my escape plan... But I'll try to evade the first half of rampage from now on... And check out how it all ends up

For warr, look out for bull charge and shield 4. Bull Charge takes precedence over everything when outside of rampage - they do a lil fancy twirl before heading your way. Failing to dodge/stab it means you're taking a pretty hefty chunk of damage in addition to a stun (and should be expecting a follow up Arcing Slice or Hundred Blades).

This ones too quick...I often find my death breakdown has this skill Everytime... Need to check out the fancy twirl...

In this case, your build just won't stand up to a meta spellbreaker. Best of luck with your uphill battle though :)

:p

Edit: Siamoth would be a decent replacement for your Gazelle, I think, what with the stunbreak + physical damage immunity.By stunbreak, do you mean "protect me"?? It sometimes helps me with other classes... When I notice they're about to deal a massive hit on me, I precast it so my pet taunts them and force them to use their 1 AA... In merged mode, they get taunted and their AA meets the 4s prot... And when traited with resounding timbre, I get Regen and swiftness

And the brownbear I don't use it nowadays but before I used it for defy pain and spirit reprieve sacrificing the owl swoop it's based on the motive, "either stand and fight or run away" but now no brownbears for me B)

@"Crystal Paladin.3871"

OK, there is so much to comment on here, but let me try to be helpful:

1. Spellbreakers "not Warriors or Berserkers" are hard counters vs. any Ranger build for all of the reasons you're already noticing. It is specifically Magebane Tether that makes them dangerous. Everything else is able to be avoided rather easily. The Magebane not only pulls you back while kiting, but it also reveals you so you can't use stealth repositions. It's a perfect counter vs. Ranger.
2. You don't run from Spellbreakers as a Ranger, you kite them, there is a difference. Trying to gain distance on the Spellbreaker is an illusion. He's gonna keep up with you. So what you need to do if you really are trying to rotate away from him, is slow down a bit and use skills like GS3 for the evade frame to avoid something like Bull's Strike, rather than just using it for distance, ect ect. It may take a bit longer to move away from him from far to mid to rally with your team, but this is how you survive while doing it. As soon as someone else is capable of engaging the Spellbreaker, usually it won't be worth his time to continue to chase, because they are actually quite squishy if they are +'d.
3. In this meta, there is no room for hybrid power/sustain or condi Ranger builds, and this is because of how many Spellbreakers are in play, along with all of the other mega CC being thrown around. You need to go balls to the wall Power DPS or full on Bunker. You always run Soulbeast for full DPS and you can run either Boonbeast or Druid for a full Bunker. Either way, the idea is that "You have the traits & utilities to deal with the cheese." If you run full DPS, you can 2 shot or sometimes 3 shot meta Spellbreakers, and you should have just enough stability to be able to engage and allow you time to do this. If you run full Bunker, you'll need 4 sources of "freedom of movement" I call it. By this I mean, a mixture of stunbreaks & stabilities. This will allow you just barely what you need, to contest a node under a Spellbreaker and slowly kill it with attrition. But in the end, the Spellbreaker always still has advantage.
4. Don't dodge every GS3 or w/e that he comes at you with. What you're concerned about dodging/stunbreaking are the CC attacks, especially the bursts that land Magebane Tether, that reveal you. Save your stability for Rampage, always.
5. Consider that Spellbreaker is just a hard counter that maybe you should be avoiding. If you struggle dealing with them, just leave the node as soon as you see him coming. This does 2x important things: The first is that, if he really wants the node, he'll go stand there and let you pot shot him to get a lead on damage before you engage him. The second is that if he's smart and doesn't want you to pot shot him he has to chase you, which means he leaves the node and you're still actively defending that node while kiting. There are ways through pressure to keep a node your color without actually standing on it.
6. Gotta learn to utilize small little steps and objects. Every gap closer the Spellbreaker has is canceled by little variations in elevation. A good example is the west node in Capricorn. There are these little steps and a little wall around the node, near the south east side of it. If you just jump around that spot, Spellbreakers can't catch you. Any little variation of elevation, any little step, you can kite him over there and abuse these spots to cancel gap closers. Also if you get Magebaned, YOU can position YOURSELF down an elevation so that when it pulls you, the little down elevation will stop you from being pulled all the way back to the Spellbreaker. <- All of that stuff is real important. Start noticing and remembering these little positions in the maps, even the ones that are off node in strange places. You can kite Spellbreakers to these spots and easily win.

Oh and on a side note, you really should be using Wilderness Survival.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

5. Consider that Spellbreaker is just a hard counter that maybe you should be avoiding. If you struggle dealing with them, just leave the node as soon as you see him coming. This does 2x important things: The first is that, if he really wants the node, he'll go stand there and let you pot shot him to get a lead on damage before you engage him. The second is that if he's smart and doesn't want you to pot shot him he has to chase you, which means he leaves the node and you're still actively defending that node while kiting. There are ways through pressure to keep a node your color without actually standing on it.

This is worth repeating.

As a thief, if I run into a magebane spellbreaker, I am not hanging around on my own. That's not a fight I expect to even begin to win unless there's a +1 happening. They are built to hard counter anything that relies on stealth.

I will, however, soften you up if I notice someone en route to the point you're decapping, and I will count that as a win if you end up downing because of it.

Not saying that "Just 2v1 them!" Is the solution for fighting spellbreakers, but It's valid to leave that to mesmers, scourges, holos, or the like.

Also just keep in mind Rampage is overtuned. They could stand a nerf as it is right now.

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:No escape ! :joy:

https://www.twitch.tv/toxiclary/clip/ZanyTenderPuddingGingerPower?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Jokes aside... Or you have all your defensive cooldowns ready or you being two shotted by 10k from nearly every skill, mesmer had protection ,I had no might even

So he can't find his dodge button ? Also reflect works wonders against throw boulder ;)

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:No escape ! :joy:

https://www.twitch.tv/toxiclary/clip/ZanyTenderPuddingGingerPower?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Jokes aside... Or you have all your defensive cooldowns ready or you being two shotted by 10k from nearly every skill, mesmer had protection ,I had no might even

@Odik.4587 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:No escape ! :joy:

https://www.twitch.tv/toxiclary/clip/ZanyTenderPuddingGingerPower?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Jokes aside... Or you have all your defensive cooldowns ready or you being two shotted by 10k from nearly every skill, mesmer had protection ,I had no might even

And mesmer is unable to exhaust warri's defensive mechanisms ? If so hes not doing a great job. Thats the thing with showing 8 seconds worth of video where you should have posted the entire thing instead. I have no clue what youre talking about with My use reflect btw i merely said it works wonders against throw boulder :)And knowing the warri you will be fighting has ramp equipped, maybe keep it in mind to save a defensive mechanism for when he pops it.

Scare them into shield stance with a simultaneous lighting surge and arcane wave. Gust them afterward if they still don't press 4.Open with static field or unsteady ground in order to interrupt block stance in transit to a point of if they are prancing around aimlessly while on a point. Follow up with frozen ground if they are point camping.Meteor shower during the stun or if they just choose to stand still. Follow up with lava font and flame burst. Spam fireball.This about when they pop everything. If they use rampage, burning retreat through the boulder, dodge the charge, and then lightning flash to inaccessible terrain (i.e. a ledge or platform above the main battlefield. Then attune to air and apply blinds while superspeeding away.Enter tornado after they are out of stability.

I swear, fighting people in this game is less about actual reads and game sense, and more like playing Simon Says. It's upsetting.

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:No escape ! :joy:

https://www.twitch.tv/toxiclary/clip/ZanyTenderPuddingGingerPower?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Jokes aside... Or you have all your defensive cooldowns ready or you being two shotted by 10k from nearly every skill, mesmer had protection ,I had no might even

Warriors are defeated by condition CC's:

• Chill/cripple makes it really hard for them to reach targets
• Weakness blunts their damage
• Blind (and particularly blinding fields) incapacitate them
• Slowness impairs their ability to do most anything.
• Immob is the most dangerous condition CC for melee builds.

Other things that can deal with warriors and rampage

• Blocks on crucial skills.
• Protection + Stability blunt their damage and CC
• Teleports on the Z-axis or jumping puzzles. Warriors have to take the long way round to deal the bulk of their damage.
• Frequent CC is dangerous to warriors not in Rampage
• Evade frames in skills

TL;DR: Rangers probably have the hardest time fighting warriors. Engineers also struggle with fighting warriors, although certain builds can handle them when played well. The caster classes (Ele, Necro, Mesmer) tend to spit out the condition CC's that are dangerous to warrior.

if you want to kill a warrioryou and all your 6 team mates follow him till you kill him this work 100% every time

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

@"Curennos.9307" said:

• I've never found the dmg increase via having higher health to be all that consistently useful.I'll check it out...

If you haven't already, learn how to disengage with sword 2 - first press to retreat in the direction you want to go, then turn around and detarget + press again to get the second leap in the same direction.

Yeah... I've been using this it helped me a few times to get out of near down situations

During Rampage, use Hornet sting to evade their first gap closer/attack. Evades will take care of the first half of their rampage. Dolyak will take care of the other half + weakness if they don't have res going.

For warr, look out for bull charge and shield 4. Bull Charge takes precedence over everything when outside of rampage - they do a lil fancy twirl before heading your way. Failing to dodge/stab it means you're taking a pretty hefty chunk of damage in addition to a stun (and should be expecting a follow up Arcing Slice or Hundred Blades).

In this case, your build just won't stand up to a meta spellbreaker. Best of luck with your uphill battle though :)

Edit: Siamoth would be a decent replacement for your Gazelle, I think, what with the stunbreak + physical damage immunity.By stunbreak, do you mean "protect me"?? It sometimes helps me with other classes... When I notice they're about to deal a massive hit on me, I precast it so my pet taunts them and force them to use their 1 AA... In merged mode, they get taunted and their AA meets the 4s prot... And when traited with resounding timbre, I get Regen and swiftness

Sorry, I meant the beast mode skill you get from fusing with a Siamoth. You get a skill that stunbreaks and gives 4 sec immunity to power damage.

Debilitating conditions are your friends:

• Blind
• Weakness
• Chill
• Immob
• Cripple
• Slow

Defensive boons also help:

• Aegis
• Protection
• Stability
• Vigor

Skills that reflects projectiles can help you avoid being cc-locked.

You have 2 dodges, make sure to use them.

LoS makes you invulnerable.

Forcing the warr to do jumpingpuzzle means he does less damage.

Equip available blocks/invulns/evades and save them for rampage.

After the boulder, distance is your ally.

Leaps help you stay away, as do superspeed.

What are you doing forcing a 1v1 with a warrior alone on node? If you are not a roaming class the optimal defense is to let your scrapper/soulbeast/weaver deal with it while you stick to the teamfights.

If all else fails: Run. Just leave the node and be useful elsewhere on the map instead.