So, do you think Aurene will return in Episode 6: War Eternal? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

So, do you think Aurene will return in Episode 6: War Eternal?

Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭

Aurene is gone, for now. But, considering all the teasers we have been shown, like the trailer and the new mount, do you think she will return to life in Episode 6?

Notice that the question is not about whether you would like her to return, rather what you think will happen.

How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

So, do you think Aurene will return in Episode 6: War Eternal? 136 votes

Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection
29%
Glider.5792Sirius Lemuria Draconis.7864Fundor.2098Ameepa.6793Susy.7529Westenev.5289Nox Noctis.7812Kylden Ar.3724SnowHawk.3615Erasculio.2914Blood Red Arachnid.2493Ravenclaw.7128bOTEB.1573Zilong.1407castlemanic.3198hash.8462Hannelore.8153Sir Alric.5078Furby.2693Daniel Handler.4816 40 votes
No, she's dead and gone
17%
Loosmaster.8263Arden.7480Ayrilana.1396Fleebag.1384flog.3485Arheundel.6451Ayakaru.6583Nogothanc.5014hugo.4705Sir Vincent III.1286Samnang.1879Aerick Blackmoore.8167InvaGir.9158Clyan.1593ThatOddOne.4387Cynder.2509ErikTheTyrant.4527Nath Forge Tempete.1645Levi M.7428Lycarian.9627 24 votes
Sorta (will come back but stuck in the Mists / will be a ghost / etc)
43%
WhatLiesBeneath.9018Cerioth.7062Thz.7569derd.6413cNd.1096Curunen.8729Ashantara.8731MithranArkanere.8957Musaroxy.2874Iron.4372Faowri.4159Tanner Blackfeather.6509Kossage.9072Phineas Drayke.6381Warscythes.9307Lahmia.2193yoni.7015Saphykun.3206tazzannl.5016Weindrasi.3805 59 votes
I think she will return to life and then die (again) and THEN be gone forever
2%
Dondarrion.2748Worlds.7530Gigalmesh.8513JaxLeo.7912 4 votes
Other (please explain below)
6%
Fenom.9457dodgerrule.8739Fleabite.7528Ranael.6423CETheLucid.3964Konig Des Todes.2086Zaraki.5784Teratus.2859perilisk.1874 9 votes
<13

Comments

  • Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't think so, not the next if she is coming back, that will be too soon.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2019
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    I'm hopeful that she comes back and takes Kralk's place, and it concludes the story with her. She fulfills her destiny and lives in peace in her own little part of the world that gets phased and we can visit her after she's ascended. If for no better reason than to have a happy ending that brings closure to our journey with her all these years. There's plenty of room to tie in future plot threads, and having something that doesn't immediately jumpstart us into another completely linear bordering on melodrama character death after character death plotline would be a nice change of pace, and might allow us dive deeper into completely new aspects of the lore that haven't had any room to be brought in due to how everything's been going since Path of Fire launched.

    But given the title of the episode, I think most people are leaning towards her being resurrected but "War Eternal" being more that she is possibly perpetually at war with Kralk? Not really sure. I find it interesting that this ties in with episode 4's vision. She dies over and over and over again in the visions, but what if that's what actually happens? What if her entire existence isn't to replace Kralk but act as an immortal jailor thanks to Joko and she just keeps him at bay. That's depressing, and not what I want to see happen, but it's something I could see happening given the foreshadowing we've seen.

    I'm not really sure what the point of her being in the mists would be if she were resurrected and did take over Kralk. Because, theoretically, she would also absorb the ability to go in and out of the mists. So it seems unlikely that she's going to take his place. And I'm not sure what the point of her needing to be in the mists is in order to fulfill her destiny.

    Who knows. The introduction of the skyscale leaves me wondering if, 1.) They're introducing her and decided to make a new mount based off of the tech they had to use for our fight with Aurene. 2.) If we discover some other McGuffin dragon that is able to do the same thing, that for some reason we didn't know about until this episode.

    I think she's coming back though. I suppose there's always the possibility that they decide to introduce Shiny and it ties in with the discovery of this new dragon mount, but I think any speculation at this point is kind of pointless. Between dragon mounts being added, the god teasers awhile back on twitter, and the little foreshadowing hints in the previous episode it feels like they wanted to create as much doubt or as many red herrings as possible in terms of speculation for the episode. Even an educated guess at this point doesn't hold much weight, imo. The only real lead we have at this point is the title, "War Eternal" which is pretty vague. And most of the titles make significantly more sense in retrospect anyway.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I personally hope not. Her death was good for the story given the damage to the narrative her involvement has caused imo. Itll also have nothing to do with Joko since that makes no sense give. She has shown not to have absorbed his powers.

    However, the ascendion thing is clearly a turning point, so unfortunately she will return in some form

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭
    No, she's dead and gone

    Be gone boring dragon

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    I don't think anything because none of us can be certain, but I hope for it.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭

    If Aurene comes back this soon, or even comes back at all, I feel like it'd cheapen the whole narrative.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    She'll be back because their writers are not that imaginative and they have written themselves into a corner without dues ex Taimi and deus ex Glint Prophecy.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    Given some of the recent talks Anet did about character deaths and how they handle them in the story, it seems the PC was a big exception to their general rule. Aurene might possibly fall into that rare exception catagory, but it's also just as likely she's truly died.

    If that was part of the plan when she underwent ascension prior for the purpose of perhaps trapping Kralkatorrik in the Mists with her or what, I don't know. At that point couldn't Glint do it herself since she's in there?

    Since Kralkatorrik likes mist walking so much now perhaps Glint, Vlast, and Aurene triple team him? lol
    I honestly have no idea where we're going or what Aurene's final fate is.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2019
    Other (please explain below)

    TBH, I'm not really sure.

    I don't expect a full resurrection without penalties, whether or not she comes back. If she does, it won't be to die again though (so that option is out IMO), but there will be some sort of drawback to marginalize the inconsequentiality of death. And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth. I do however, feel that the death was a "necessity for the plan" that the Commander wasn't told about, and we'll learn this as part of the climax for Episode 6.

    Whether that necessity comes back to be Aurene is resurrected or not is unclear.

    I imagine most of the plot for War Eternal will be focused on trying to find a way to deal with Kralkatorrik since Aurene died. There are three paths that could take:

    1. Find a way to resurrect Aurene, under the mentality of "the Commander managed it once, so maybe a similar method will be able to bring Aurene back." This will result in a resurrected but altered Aurene that becomes an Elder Dragon and, as an epilogue, perhaps goes into hibernation (perhaps as part of that punishment).
    2. Find a different replacement for Kralkatorrik. It seems highly unlikely that Glint was the ONLY plan that the Forgotten made for replacing Elder Dragons, given that four are needed. Though I suspect the Pale Tree('s cave of seeds) was the primary alternative plan, it's probable imo that the Skyscale was part of it as well, and we'll find some new dragon capable of becoming an Elder Dragon. If this is the case, Aurene won't be returning. IMO, this would be the worst path to take, to suddenly bring in a solution out of nowhere (aka a dues ex machina). Because it's also the worst possible route to take, it's also the most likely IMO given track records and how ArenaNet was so distracted during most of Ep6's development with those "unannounced projects."
    3. Rather than a replacement, we focus on finding a way to end the Kralkatorrik threat without outright killing him. Since just putting him to sleep won't be sufficient to most Tyrians (and players), putting him into a highly punishing loop he cannot escape may end up becoming the solution. Similar to Abaddon's 1,000 years of perpetual torment imprisonment. While it wouldn't "fix" the imbalance, this would "prevent it from getting worse" which falls in line with ArenaNet's long lines of "winning but not really winning" plots. This, of course, means no resurrected Aurene (in Season 4).
  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    Either a full resurrection, or apotheosis to become the new War god. She'll definitely be back, either way.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    Yes, i expect she will come back because she has been the most important character in the game ever since we first heard about the existence of Glint's egg back in 2014. That is, five years ago. And after that we have been told again and again that Aurene is our only hope to save the world from the threat of the Elder Dragons (since it has been made very clear that we cannot simply kill them). So if she stays dead that would not only invalidate almost everything the Commander has done in the past five years, but also leaves us with no idea on how to save the world. Unless of course super Taimi suddenly creates an "Elder Dragon energy replacement machine" or something out of the blue, but that would be a horrible writing imo.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    I think she’ll return later, and if anything in this episode, she’ll be a ghost/spirit we only see in the mists

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    TBH, I'm not really sure.

    And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

    Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    TBH, I'm not really sure.

    And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

    Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

    The argument to this is that Joko doesn’t technically die, he just persists indefinitely. But we don’t know how he became a lich and it would seem that he died at least once before his reign but who knows. The other argument being that there’s nothing to show that he’s a god or a dragon so this aspect of his magic wouldn’t be absorbed by Aurene. Time will tell though.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    And on that previous note, if the next map is in scavengers causeway it could be interesting if they find a way to tie in a death branded Aurene that we have to free like we did glint. But that’s a lot of ifs.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    I don't think that she'll be resurrected because of Joko's magic, but I DO think that she will come back for several reasons

    1. they've hyped up something about ascension, a conversation that, as the commander, we were not privy to
    2. aurene branding caithe means that there's SOMETHING going to be happening in relation to that event, and it doesn't really make sense story arc wise for caithe to have this massive transformation that, ultimately, is cut off by th end of the episode that it's introduced.
    3. aurene knew she was going to die, something that the commander and everyone else had done everything they could to prevent. and from episode 4 it was obvious she was afraid of that very event, but she returned and fought the battle anyway. seems something convinced her that it was necessary.
    4. glint has been very active in the mists, teaching rytlock how to connect to it, rallying the ghostly armies to fight off the branded, opening a portal back to tyria at the end of episode 4 for us, and asked eir to prod aurene to be ready for the fight (which made aurene turn to her prophetic abilities to see the outcome)

    so I do believe that aurene will return, but i can offer counterpoints to everything i've suggested too.

    1. while they did hype up something about ascension, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a full resurrection, glint wasn't resurrected. this angle probably means some sort of spiritual incarnation, one that's allowed to take more direct action or retain more of their power once they've passed on into the mists, fully embodying the jedi force ghost stuff.
    2. caithe finally finding a purpose, a direction, a true connection that she's had difficulty with from early on in her life (especially since she held the secret that the sylvari are the minions of mordremoth, that's BOUND to alienate you subconsciously from everyone to prevent that info from accidentally slipping). and wouldn't it be a huge tragedy to finally have a connection, a bond that is unconditional, and have that ripped away. my 'most likely' guess is that in the mists, caithe's connection to aurene will guide us in the mists to aurene (and potentially glint) and lead us to this mysterious dragon homeland where the skyscales are. Caithe will have a bit more time to hold on to that bond before ultimately letting it go, knowing that this was only temporary, and that caithe will have to work extra hard to regain the trust of dragon's watch and the remainder of destiny's edge.
    3. facing your fear is an arc that's been used across a ton of media, so aurene preparing for her end and accepting it is a possible alternative path, regardless of whether ascension means resurrection, retaining power in the mists, or something else entirely.
    4. Apart from opening a portal out of the mists at the end of episode 4, it doesn't seem like glint has really done anything out of the extraordinary for a spirit in the mists, the place where we know all spirits pass on to when they die. even teaching rytlock how to become a revenant seems more like someone who's lived a while in the mists teaching someone all they know about the mists. the portal thing is something different though, she didn't absorb balthazar's power and she's been able to create portals to and from her lair. that's the only part where it really seems like glint has retained something in the afterlife, but eir and snaff seemingly retained their abilities when fighting in the mists too, so i don't really know what's going on there.

    overall, i think 'sorta' is the most realistic option, but i hold out hope that full resurrection is on the table (and again, no, not because of the joko magic, it's the ascension thing that tickles my brain about resurrection).

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Windu The Forbidden One.6045 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    TBH, I'm not really sure.

    And she 100% will not combat "because she ate an immortal lich's immortality magic" because that was just her eating necromancy and she already got a bunch of death magic from Zhaitan's death via Mordremoth.

    Isn't Palawa's necromancy different from Zhaitan's though? Palawa Joko's magic allows him to revive himself after death, I doubt Zhaitan has that ability, because he would've used it if he did.

    Per Taimi in Season 3, all Tyrian magic is ultimately the same as the Elder Dragon's domains. Whether we can trust her or the half-dozen individuals who said otherwise before Taimi, hard to say.

    Ultimately, though, Joko's immortality is simply a spell, and Elder Dragons who gain access to new domains do not copy spells, they use that domain in brand new ways that benefit themselves. On top of that, Elder Dragons who gain access to new domains do so through the deaths of (former) gods and Elder Dragons, and Joko was neither. Though liches are rare, they're far from unique.

    And ojn the premise that she did get that immortality, Joko never actually died, and got back up within seconds, while Aurene's been dead for... hours? Days? Weeks? Hard to say, but a significant amount of time by the sound of the Requiem short stories.

    @castlemanic.3198 said:
    1. they've hyped up something about ascension, a conversation that, as the commander, we were not privy to
    2. aurene branding caithe means that there's SOMETHING going to be happening in relation to that event, and it doesn't really make sense story arc wise for caithe to have this massive transformation that, ultimately, is cut off by th end of the episode that it's introduced.

    In addition to your own counterpoints:
    1. ArenaNet didn't really hype that ascension thing up. ArenaNet just mentioned it once, super vaguely at that, and it's not even clear whether the "ascension" referred to Glint's trials (a mirror - once more - to GW1's three ascension tests) that changed Aurene's appearance, replacing Kralkatorrik as an Elder Dragon, or something else. The hyping and "this must be important!" was, ultimately, done pretty much solely by the community. Like about 90% of hyping in the game. For all we know, ArenaNet included that solely as an excuse to get us alone to learn the "truth of Kralkatorrik".
    2. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In addition to your own counterpoints:
    1. ArenaNet didn't really hype that ascension thing up. ArenaNet just mentioned it once, super vaguely at that, and it's not even clear whether the "ascension" referred to Glint's trials (a mirror - once more - to GW1's three ascension tests) that changed Aurene's appearance, replacing Kralkatorrik as an Elder Dragon, or something else. The hyping and "this must be important!" was, ultimately, done pretty much solely by the community. Like about 90% of hyping in the game. For all we know, ArenaNet included that solely as an excuse to get us alone to learn the "truth of Kralkatorrik".
    2. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

    Yeah you're absolutely right about the ascension thing, they gave an inch and we ran a mile with it.

    and i don't usually watch guildchat, so i missed that. i'm really glad they decided not to kill caithe in along with aurene, however appropriate an end that might have been for caithe.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭
    Sorta (will come back but stuck in the Mists / will be a ghost / etc)

    I'm kind of expecting her to ascend, eat Kralk's magic then go to sleep only for another dragon to wake up. Then a title drop with a hyperbolic statement like "this war is endless/eternal" or something like that. Or Aurene only ends up with half of the magic and gets stuck in some kind of endless loop of fighting Kralkatorric with neither able to truly defeat the other making her come back only to sacrifice herself in a different way.

  • Sorta (will come back but stuck in the Mists / will be a ghost / etc)

    Hmmmmm.....Glint has a message for Aurene but we don't know what then she died.........................................i'm sure this isn't part of Glint message at all, Nope! Nada!

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    You... you have a point, sir.
    At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.
    EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

  • cNd.1096cNd.1096 Member ✭✭✭
    Sorta (will come back but stuck in the Mists / will be a ghost / etc)

    I'm sure it wasn't the end for Aurene but I think it will take some time for her to come back, surelly this wont happen in this season.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Urud.4925 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    You... you have a point, sir.
    At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.
    EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

    If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Urud.4925 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    You... you have a point, sir.
    At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.
    EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

    If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

    It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Urud.4925 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    You... you have a point, sir.
    At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.
    EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

    If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

    It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

    I know - that's why I didn't say truly, I said largely. That leaves room for the otherwise even if the evidence appears to stack against the idea

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2019
    No, she's dead and gone

    A hard no, when a character is dead, it should stay so, it's not fun and poor writing to resurrect dead characters.
    Even if I'm part of a minority, I hate aurene and would prefer to see coming back Blish (ah okay I got it.. was in possession of research showing how to kill stigmatized? So bad since we shouldn't have any solution? That's why he got killed!) a really interesting character. Zafirah shouldn't have joined us, and must die for all the lives she took. Taimi should die soon too or find a solution? Blish bis? Bleh..
    I will tolerate seeing Aurene in the mists but that's all. Even killing our character and resurrecting it, no sense.
    Death is more and more shown as a fun thing, hey looks our puppets! we can kill them, we can resurrect them! Will not surprised to see all the troops killed at the end of e5 resurrected. Whereas it was a more serious thing in personal story: Omg tonn is dead! You monster!!! The fault of that stupid pact!!
    And now: Hey!! Looks! It's my old friend, have you been awakened? -Yeah! was nice, I drunk some cup of tea wandering around elona, really nice place!
    (not exaggerating, just speak with your awakened troops before fighting kralk)
    For the joko argument: Kralk killed Aurene who killed Joko the immortal, so it's kralk which have the immortal power.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Urud.4925 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    She ate an immortal necromancer in the previous episode. She's coming back.

    You... you have a point, sir.
    At the beginning I thought that she wasn't really dead, but after reading so many character saying "she's dead, for good", included last ministory of Zafirah, I started to believe that she's really gone. But now your comment... hmm.
    EDIT: but, in that case she wouldn't be cute anymore! An awakened Aurene... omg. Though she would be an awesome elder dragon one day.

    If you scroll to other posts, the joko argument is largely debunked.

    It's all just opinions, nothing has been truly "debunked".

    Sure -- we don't even really know if Aurene destroys magic that she consumes. It's just been assumed as inherent in what dragons do, but most of the evidence is from Elder Dragons. She can brand while leaving her "minions" with free will (I say "can", but maybe it makes more sense to say "is willing to").

    Maybe the conversion of absorbed magic into their own magic is another part of the corrupt nature of the Elder Dragons, their desire to own and become and dominate and devour everything. For all we know, Aurene can choose to preserve magics that she absorbs, the better to share them with others.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    IMO, Aurene will return in some way - otherwise Glint's actions wouldn't make sense, and we know that Glint's prophecies have been accurate enough to predict what happened until now.

    Now, we know Glint isn't against allowing her child to die - see Vlast. I wouldn't be surprised if Aurene dying were a necessity for Glint's plan to work. This plan could be, of course, to set everything up so a solution other than Aurene is needed at the last moment, and would ultimately be used to end the dragon's threat. But it would have been a far too convoluted plan, considering everything Glint herself has done.

    The option that makes the most sense is that Aurene's death was needed, and that Aurene will also be needed. If the plan is to fully resurrect Aurene (and then find another excuse as to why she won't just kill the other Elder Dragons by herself), or to leave Aurene limited in some other way (such as stuck in the Mists), I have no idea. But I have the feeling that we will see a full resurrection.

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Erasculio.2914 said:
    we know that Glint's prophecies have been accurate enough to predict what happened until now.

    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

    Glint: The Titans the lich loosed upon the world are causing more trouble than even I could have foreseen.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vision_of_Glint

    Glint's visions are very far from infallible. And from what we've been told, she has seen nothing beyond her death - at least, prior to said death, but we've also seen no indication that she retained her prophetic abilities postmortem.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

    I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

    In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2019
    Other (please explain below)

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

    I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

    Been a while, but iirc, part of the reason for her death was the branding.

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

    In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

    It's also established in Scion & Champion that Glint (and Aurene) are not the only beings capable of prophecizing (not that such needed confirmation given we had five or so non-crystal dragons prophecizing in GW1). Ogden mentions a prophecy, but never mentions who the prophet is. (I will continue to say that "prophecy" felt really jammed in as an excuse for why Joko "had to die so soon").

    As for the memory, it was confirmed in the AFC that the crystals with Glint's messages were a sort of "reactive AI messaging system" which based the messages on the inhabitants. Said dev mentioned that the contents of the message would be different, had Vlast shown up instead (layout of the lair as well). It most likely reacts by reading the minds of the inhabitants, similar to the canyon Destiny's Edge went through in Edge of Destiny before reaching Glint's lair where they were suddenly able to read each others' minds. Because of this, the messages feels more like a failsafe in case she couldn't survive the battle with Kralkatorrik, rather than something she set up because she foresaw that Aurene would be the one facing off against Kralkatorrik.

    Post in mention.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    1. During the GuildChat after All or Nothing's release, the devs stated that Caithe was originally meant to die in this episode alongside Aurene. Which means that, originally, Caithe's branding had no long term effects or plans. They scrapped Caithe's death only because they felt killing two major characters at once was a bit too much.

    I didn't have time to watch that one. Do you remember if they said whether she was going to be branded at that point? Or was that a direction they settled on after they knew she'd be sticking around?

    Been a while, but iirc, part of the reason for her death was the branding.

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
    Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#In_Glint.27s_Lair

    In Scion & Champion, Ogden hints at a prophecy. Glint also had left behind a memory that talks to us, which required her to have knowledge of the present situation. Her prophecies may not be infallible, but they're clearly enough to guide her to the present day.

    It's also established in Scion & Champion that Glint (and Aurene) are not the only beings capable of prophecizing (not that such needed confirmation given we had five or so non-crystal dragons prophecizing in GW1). Ogden mentions a prophecy, but never mentions who the prophet is. (I will continue to say that "prophecy" felt really jammed in as an excuse for why Joko "had to die so soon").

    As for the memory, it was confirmed in the AFC that the crystals with Glint's messages were a sort of "reactive AI messaging system" which based the messages on the inhabitants. Said dev mentioned that the contents of the message would be different, had Vlast shown up instead (layout of the lair as well). It most likely reacts by reading the minds of the inhabitants, similar to the canyon Destiny's Edge went through in Edge of Destiny before reaching Glint's lair where they were suddenly able to read each others' minds. Because of this, the messages feels more like a failsafe in case she couldn't survive the battle with Kralkatorrik, rather than something she set up because she foresaw that Aurene would be the one facing off against Kralkatorrik.

    Post in mention.

    I replayed that instance yesterday. Jammed in is an understatement! I mean i hated almost the entire episode, but that set a poor tone to begin it with.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019
    Sorta (will come back but stuck in the Mists / will be a ghost / etc)

    In the "Legacy" instance in Ep4, Snaff has also mentioned a prophecy involving Aurene and the Commander, and the Commander's important role in it. It appears that for Glint's endgame to come to fruition, the Commander had to survive Thunderhead no matter what, but it remains to be seen what role the Commander ultimately ends up playing beyond making sure via their close bond that Aurene, if she's to return in some form, won't go mad with power upon taking Kralk's place and magic in the All. I hope that the contents of this prophecy revolving around Glint's Legacy are elaborated on when the time comes.

    Snaff: Aurene must kill Kralkatorrik and replace him as Elder Dragon.
    Eir: Now.
    Pact Commander: No. She can't face Kralkatorrik alone. She isn't ready!
    Snaff: Not alone, Commander. Your fate is entwined with hers. The prophecy hinges on you both.
    Eir: You must take him down—together. And do not tarry. The more you wait, the more powerful Kralkatorrik will become.
    Braham Eirsson: What, you expect them to take down a walking hurricane by themselves? Aurene's still a kid!
    Taimi: Stop it! You're scaring her!
    Snaff: This is why you were brought together. Vlast failed because he didn't have a champion, Commander. He didn't have you.

    I also hope that Ogden finally confirms if it really was Vlast who gave the egg to the Master of Peace to take it to Tarir (as Ogden promised in S2Ep5's "Hidden Arcana" instance that we'd learn the truth when the time was right, and I think the time would be right now). ;)

    Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg.
    Ogden: Fear not. He did not steal it. He was given custody of it.
    Pact Commander: By whom?
    Ogden: You know. You witnessed it, didn't you?
    Pact Commander: Not clearly.
    Ogden: Then you're not meant to know just yet. All things in their time.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    In the "Legacy" instance in Ep4, Snaff has also mentioned a prophecy involving Aurene and the Commander, and the Commander's important role in it.

    I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    No, she's dead and gone

    I think ArenaNet are gonna stick to their guns here and keep her dead. There’ll probably be a ghost in the Mists we can have closure with but that’ll be it.

  • Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    If you want to know more about my reasoning, I'll reference a post I made in the feedback thread. The short version is this: Anet has written themselves into a corner. We have three options available to us, and I picked the one that would be the least disappointing.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

    He does specifically mention a prophecy, not just a legacy:

    Snaff: "Not alone, Commander. Your fate is entwined with hers. The prophecy hinges on you both."

    So, between Ogden (a dwarf, and we know some dwarves used to work closely with Glint) and Snaff (who's now working for Glint; Eir says in Legacy that "Glint sent us—with a message for Aurene"), we know that there's a prophecy about current events, describing the commander and Aurene's victory against Kralkatorrik.

    Now, you can say this prophecy comes from a mysterious entity whose identity we don't know (I wonder, who do we know that can see the future, is familiar with both Ogden and Snaff, and is interested in Aurene? If only there were some character like that...), but my earlier point still stands: it's possible that Aurene's death was just a necessary part of this prophecy, not a sign of its failure.

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    If you want to know more about my reasoning, I'll reference a post I made in the feedback thread.

    Loved the comic book references, they're very apt!

    How about some anti eyes bleeding options? Here's the direct link to the concept.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    she will return, they both (aurene and kralk) will get trapped in a fractal loop, and aurenes vision about her dying over and over again will come true..while kralk is beating her, but can't escape the loop hence "war eternal"

    both dragons still alive
    the magical balance not disturbed
    aurene's vision came true

    and that's the end

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    Your title contains spoilers

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    I think she'll be back but not quite yet.

    Too soon to revive her in a single episode since her death and i'm hoping Kralkatorrik isn't going to fall in this episode either.
    I expect the next season of living world will deal with her resurrection where as the next episode will deal with finding an alternative solution to dealing with Kralkatorrik.
    Putting him to sleep or sealing him away temporarily until we can find a way to kill him.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019
    Other (please explain below)

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I figured Snaff was talking about Glint's Legacy itself, which is less a prophecy and more an attempt at a Xanatos Gambit with how many failsafes she's put in just to ensure Kralkatorrik's defeat.

    He does specifically mention a prophecy, not just a legacy:

    My point was that a legacy, which in this case happens to be a plan to manipulate events, left behind by a prophet can be inferred - incorrectly - as a prophecy even if it isn't.

    Glint's Legacy feels more akin to psychohistory from the Foundation, rather than actual prophecizing. She no doubt knew where Mordremoth and the others would wake up, and knew from past experience how they would act, and created children to fulfill certain roles, while creating failsafes in case she herself could not fulfill her own role. Using these facts (unable to see past the battle with Kralk, knowing where the ED would wake, knowing how they'd likely act, knowing that her children would need mortals to bond with as champions) she'd be able to formulate a large plan that is Glint's Legacy to overthrow and replace the Elder Dragons (or a bare minimum of Kralkatorrik).

    but my earlier point still stands: it's possible that Aurene's death was just a necessary part of this prophecy, not a sign of its failure.

    Never said it didn't.

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

    I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is exactly the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

    I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is exactly the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

    Maybe Glint has her own reasons for not returning.

    We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

    ... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

    I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is exactly the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

    We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

    ... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

    I still feel like they killed Trahearne off because players hated him for "stealin muh spahtlight". But in regards to resurrections, they're well known but most have ceased to function in the past 250 years (some theories being that Grenth's departure made them stop working). It's a bit more than merely "with enough magic" though. As for Gaheron, nothing says his soul even went to the Mists in the first place.

    The only non-standard resurrection techniques that have worked would be Shiro's and the Commander's, both of which required lifeforce of a powerful figure (in Shiro's case, the Weh no Su and Emperor's bloodline, Master Togo; in the Commander's case, the Eater of Souls who has been feasting on dozens of souls recently). Gaheron's method of resurrection seems to have been similar to Shiro's, though through the catalyst of the Eternal Flame (which we still know nothing about, thanks Anet).

    Either way, I'm not sure either situation will work on Aurene. Since it'd require a live sacrifice, thus is morally questionable, and unless we happen to find an evil entity that is suitable by pure happistance a second time it wouldn't even be possible.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    I'd be surprised if Aurine didn't come back to life. If Glint has taught us anything, death isn't the same for Dragons.

    I dunno. Glint seems to be no different than other souls in the Mists. If anything, Glint taught us that death is exactly the same for dragons. Which is actually a bit worrying regarding the Elder Dragons we killed.

    We have already set a precident that with enough magic the dead can return to life, even after their soul resides the mists (remember Balefire from CoF?). I doubt Anet are bold enough to kill Aurine permanently and void all of her warrenty as a future Elder Dragon in training.

    ... then again, these are probably the same people who killed Traehearne for "shock value"...

    I still feel like they killed Trahearne off because players hated him for "stealin muh spahtlight". But in regards to resurrections, they're well known but most have ceased to function in the past 250 years (some theories being that Grenth's departure made them stop working). It's a bit more than merely "with enough magic" though. As for Gaheron, nothing says his soul even went to the Mists in the first place.

    The only non-standard resurrection techniques that have worked would be Shiro's and the Commander's, both of which required lifeforce of a powerful figure (in Shiro's case, the Weh no Su and Emperor's bloodline, Master Togo; in the Commander's case, the Eater of Souls who has been feasting on dozens of souls recently). Gaheron's method of resurrection seems to have been similar to Shiro's, though through the catalyst of the Eternal Flame (which we still know nothing about, thanks Anet).

    Either way, I'm not sure either situation will work on Aurene. Since it'd require a live sacrifice, thus is morally questionable, and unless we happen to find an evil entity that is suitable by pure happistance a second time it wouldn't even be possible.

    Well, we have been told that Kralk has made a move on the Domain of the Lost (which seems to not be exclusive to human souls). Since Dragons tend to eat magic through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival by using a Mouth of Kralk.

    At least, that's my bet.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    Since Dragons tend to feed through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival.

    That was only Zhaitan. No other Elder Dragon has a minion specialized for feeding on magic. If you're thinking of the Mouth of Mordremoth, that was Mordremoth's actual body as has been confirmed a few times in PoF and S4. Almost all minions are capable of consuming magic, as we can see in the Conservation of Magic events, among many other situations. Zhaitan's the only one who had a minion specifically designed to feed off of artifacts and the like for him.

    I'm also doubtful that Aurene's soul would end up in the Dominion of the Lost, given that place is for the souls of those who died traumatic deaths and forgot themselves. Aurene knew that death was likely in battle, so I'm not sure it'd count. The Commander died traumatically because they witnessed Aurene's capture upon dying (or at least that's my take on it).

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019
    Yes, I think we will have a full resurrection

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    Since Dragons tend to feed through "mouth" type minions, it's very possible we could see a similar situation to the events leading to the Commanders revival.

    That was only Zhaitan. No other Elder Dragon has a minion specialized for feeding on magic. If you're thinking of the Mouth of Mordremoth, that was Mordremoth's actual body as has been confirmed a few times in PoF and S4. Almost all minions are capable of consuming magic, as we can see in the Conservation of Magic events, among many other situations. Zhaitan's the only one who had a minion specifically designed to feed off of artifacts and the like for him.

    I'm also doubtful that Aurene's soul would end up in the Dominion of the Lost, given that place is for the souls of those who died traumatic deaths and forgot themselves. Aurene knew that death was likely in battle, so I'm not sure it'd count. The Commander died traumatically because they witnessed Aurene's capture upon dying (or at least that's my take on it).

    Aurine is a child, not a trained veteran. Her last moments probably consisted of her noticing the Commander getting KO'ed, before facing grandpa kralky solo while knowing full well that despite her training and preperations, she never stood a chance.

    If that isn't traumatic, I don't know what is.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (please explain below)

    She's more a teenager at that point, due to the magical burst from Balthazar (dragon aging/maturing is weird, and keep in mind that most animals mature a lot faster than humans, dragons likely the same). She's also been in countless battles since then, such as being chased all over the place by The Shatterer. She trained to face her fears and the concept of dying, and went into battle knowing she may die.

    The visions of her death felt more traumatic for her than anything in All or Nothing.

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