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Crab Fear.1624

By Crab Fear.1624
in Player vs. Player

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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Using these terms:

  • Attack (condi or power potential)
  • Defense (any form of block, damage reduction, stability, and consider ease of access)
  • Control (any cc, soft or hard)
  • Evasion (dodges, evasive skills, vigor)
  • Mobility (skill that close gaps, create gaps, or teleport, access to natural speed or ease of swiftness)

Rated on One(1) to Five(5) <3 with one being the least and five being the best

Consider ease of access and how practical it would be to use those traits

We can break it down by specialization.

I'll post my list (guesses), but I wanted to share this idea and see what others think.

For example:

Daredevil:

  • Attack <3 <3 <3
  • Defense <3
  • Control <3
  • Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
  • Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
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Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

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http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

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Safandula.8723

Safandula.8723

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:Using these terms:

  • Attack (condi or power potential)
  • Defense (any form of block, damage reduction, stability, and consider ease of access)
  • Control (any cc, soft or hard)
  • Evasion (dodges, evasive skills, vigor)
  • Mobility (skill that close gaps, create gaps, or teleport, access to natural speed or ease of swiftness)

Rated on One(1) to Five(5) <3 with one being the least and five being the best

Consider ease of access and how practical it would be to use those traits

We can break it down by specialization.

I'll post my list (guesses), but I wanted to share this idea and see what others think.

For example:

Daredevil:

  • Attack <3 <3 <3
  • Defense <3
  • Control <3 <3
  • Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
  • Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Before iv read ur rating, I was thinking about the same numbers but with 1 on control.

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Alatar.7364

Alatar.7364

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmer-s-the-cause-of-the-meta'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the "massive burst dmg' posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.damn NOTHING compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.Literally the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Using these terms:
  • Attack (condi or power potential)
  • Defense (any form of block, damage reduction, stability, and consider ease of access)
  • Control (any cc, soft or hard)
  • Evasion (dodges, evasive skills, vigor)
  • Mobility (skill that close gaps, create gaps, or teleport, access to natural speed or ease of swiftness)

Rated on One(1) to Five(5) <3 with one being the least and five being the best

Consider ease of access and how practical it would be to use those traits

We can break it down by specialization.

I'll post my list (guesses), but I wanted to share this idea and see what others think.

For example:

Daredevil:
  • Attack <3 <3 <3
  • Defense <3
  • Control <3 <3
  • Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
  • Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Before iv read ur rating, I was thinking about the same numbers but with 1 on control.

Yeah, I agree. Fixed

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Balsa.3951

Balsa.3951

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the list of categories is to short there is burst attack substain attack duel single, group fight aoe, group burst. Range attacks melee attacks, attacks which are only good vs certain classes

As well for all other points are more situations what defense can mean

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@Lunia.2736 said:

@otto.5684 said:Core guardian

Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense; <3 <3Control:Mobility: <3 <3Evasion: <3

Could you imagine if out of all the classes they nerfed Righteous Instincts and took away the only crutch Core Guardian still had, the Valkyrie amulet.

Oh wait... :/

Guard having RI is not right yet sic em is? Go figure eh lol dont kno the logic there

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Noir.8561

Noir.8561

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"otto.5684" said:Core guardian

Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense; <3 <3Control:Mobility: <3 <3Evasion: <3

Could you imagine if out of all the classes they nerfed Righteous Instincts and took away the only crutch Core Guardian still had, the Valkyrie amulet.

Oh wait... :/

Guard having RI is not right yet sic em is? Go figure eh lol dont kno the logic there

Or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Be_Quick_or_Be_KilledGuardians might get that same trait at the next expanion with F1 (crossed fingers)

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Fortus.6175

Fortus.6175

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Elementalists in general:

Attack: 1/2 <3 + 2 :heartbreak:Defense: <3 <3Control: <3Mobility:Evasion: <3 + 1/2 <3

For weavers, add one heart to evasion and 1 half to attack.For tempest: add 1 defense heart, take out 1 attack heart and add 2 :heartbreak: to attack, mobility and evasion.For damage dealers of any kind take out both defense hearts and half of evasion, half of control and add a full heart on damage.

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@"Balsa.3951" said:the list of categories is to short there is burst attack substain attack duel single, group fight aoe, group burst. Range attacks melee attacks, attacks which are only good vs certain classes

As well for all other points are more situations what defense can mean

I modeled the rating off of BDO style with a small change to match our categories. You know the radar charts you see in some games and mmo's? Like this one?

8qa9dSo.png

I think this one above is for a car, but normally these categories are broad to include those potentials. Maybe a more sustain attack in closer to defense than offense (attack).

Anyways, this is what I imagined. If we get all of the classes with consensus I will make the images (radar charts in excel or word) and save them to imgur to post here

Edit: Maybe each heart counts as 10, and after posting hearts we can assign our value. like <3 9

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Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Berserker Soulbeast:

Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Defense: <3Control: <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

Druid:

Attack: <3 <3 and 1/2Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 +Control: <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3

Fair. Now do Boonbeast please.

Boonbeast:

Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3 <3 <3Control: <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3 <3 and 1/2

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Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

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My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

That's the problem most classes have had theives strengths added to their kit while being balanced around having good damage and sustain. Thieves arnt the ones that want to constantly use stealth and backstab to do damage, it's boring try to do the same simple cheese over and over.but blame arena net for its design.why would a thief sit there with s/d,dd,d/p and go toe to toe with classes that due to the powercrept state of the game have to hit their opponents 20 times more to down them than it takes to get downed? I dance around other classes with s/d and d/p all the time in wvw to avoid the backstab playstyle and I die constantly cuz I'll put play my opponent hard and hit them twice the amount they hit me and their sustain ie to much and heal thru it and if I mis one evade I'm dead,its ridiculous right now so u have to use cheese mechanics as a thief. And that's full maurader with assissin sig used.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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People see a theif aperearing from stealth back stabbing them etc and get salty and think their op damage which is a joke.every class has a high burst these days.whatvthey dont consider is thieves non stealth burst etc are garbage compared to their sustain when compared to most classes,then they complain about their mobility and resets as if their supposed to not have damage,not ne abke to escape and have the same mobility as other classes lmao, though alot of classes are getting close these days mobility wise. Theive needs a rework as know one has fun for long having to do the same cheese burst over and over and having to run all the time.

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Swagg.9236

Swagg.9236

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

That's the problem most classes have had theives strengths added to their kit while being balanced around having good damage and sustain. Thieves arnt the ones that want to constantly use stealth and backstab to do damage, it's boring try to do the same simple cheese over and over.but blame arena net for its design.why would a thief sit there with s/d,dd,d/p and go toe to toe with classes that due to the powercrept state of the game have to hit their opponents 20 times more to down them than it takes to get downed? I dance around other classes with s/d and d/p all the time in wvw to avoid the backstab playstyle and I die constantly cuz I'll put play my opponent hard and hit them twice the amount they hit me and their sustain ie to much and heal thru it and if I mis one evade I'm dead,its ridiculous right now so u have to use cheese mechanics as a thief. And that's full maurader with assissin sig used.

That's because Thief isn't a real class: it's a showcase for stealth. It's the same reason why Thief has no weapon skill cooldowns despite the rest of the game being entirely balanced by cooldowns: GW2's development was a bizarre array of isolated dev teams which just cobbled a bunch of flavors into low-effort classes with no real roles or interesting mechanics.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

That's the problem most classes have had theives strengths added to their kit while being balanced around having good damage and sustain. Thieves arnt the ones that want to constantly use stealth and backstab to do damage, it's boring try to do the same simple cheese over and over.but blame arena net for its design.why would a thief sit there with s/d,dd,d/p and go toe to toe with classes that due to the powercrept state of the game have to hit their opponents 20 times more to down them than it takes to get downed? I dance around other classes with s/d and d/p all the time in wvw to avoid the backstab playstyle and I die constantly cuz I'll put play my opponent hard and hit them twice the amount they hit me and their sustain ie to much and heal thru it and if I mis one evade I'm dead,its ridiculous right now so u have to use cheese mechanics as a thief. And that's full maurader with assissin sig used.

That's because Thief isn't a real class: it's a showcase for stealth. It's the same reason why Thief has no weapon skill cooldowns despite the rest of the game being entirely balanced by cooldowns: GW2's development was a bizarre array of isolated dev teams which just cobbled a bunch of flavors into low-effort classes with no real roles or interesting mechanics.

Sadly ur kinda right :( I played it for yrs cuz was the closest thing to a ninja class, growing up watching sho kasugi films etc with my pops I was always into ninjitsu type characters but man arenanet really pushed a few cheese burst mechanics on the class and slowly took away any chance it had to fight with out them.gets boring fast doing same thing over and over again and using same weapons for yrs.ontop arenanet powercrept classes to deal with such cheese while nerfing everything on thief that wasn't related to the cheese playstyle. Shame cuz coulda dome some cool things with an assassin themed class.

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Crab Fear.1624

Crab Fear.1624

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@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons: everything is still just stealth/teleport bursts from 1200+ range through walls followed by attacking while evading. It's so meta that basically other classes in PvP have basically just become Thieves by design: Guardian, Revenant and even Ranger to a degree.

Revives is a good idea, maybe I should have added support as a term.

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Alatar.7364

Alatar.7364

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@Swagg.9236 said:My core staff ele build (2013):Attack: <3 <3 <3 <3Defense: <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3

The exact same build in 2018 despite LUDICROUS powercreep:Attack: <3 <3 <3Defense: <3 <3Control: <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility: <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion: <3 <3Revives: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

@"Burnfall.9573" said:
'It isn’t often that I’ll feel inclined to point the finger at a class or two in a massively multiplayer game and blame it for the woes of an entire game mode. While I certainly wouldn’t go that far here, I do believe the Thief and Mesmer and some of their mechanics are the cause of many problems in Guild Wars 2’s PvP'

Thief and Mesmer(all specializations included)

Attack- <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Defense <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Control <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Evasion <3 <3 <3 <3 <3Mobility <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

????????

It's 2015 post by a guy who thinks Thieves run Berserker amulet and as an example of the
"massive burst dmg'
posts a 4,6k backstab vs Light Armor target which is god.kitten
NOTHING
compared to what most of the power professions can do with much better frequency.
Literally
the only thing in that post which was true is that Thief has access to more stealth than others. Thief was +1 even before 2015... wonder how is that since that guy makes it sound like such an ultimate 1v1 killer.

You say all that, and yet Thief and Mesmer have the exact same sort of builds even now. There has been zero deviance from their core playstyles despite sometimes getting extra buttons

So??Thief having the very same build as it always had, has absolutely nothing to do with anything in that post.That Thief still has D/P and S/D Build somehow confirms that clueless guy theory that Thief is a 1v1 God with best at everything even though there is no logical correlation?

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