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Window into Stubbornness


Cirin.7845

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I'll start out with a small disclaimer, I never posted before, I don't read the forums, in general I don't participate in this community.

My discussion is WvW related, but I'd like to give you a small introduction of me as a Gw2 player.

I started playing Gw2 around release, I participated in some two week beta or something, if I remember correctly (It's been a while). My friends and I were all looking forward to the launch, and they all came back now and again, but I'm the only one that's been playing for the last 5 years.

My niche has always been PvP, so I've never done anything in the game in regardless to PvE. I think I did some dungeons while leveling up and one or two back in 2013. Never since have I been in the world of Tyria. WvW and structured PvP is where I've spend all my time. I've come back to the game on and off, mainly because of the smoothness of the gameplay and control of my character. Patchnotes and things have come and gone, and never really affected the way I play the game, I've always enjoyed the core game and what it stood for.

I have a very good grasp of why you'd implement mount into the game, and WvW for that matter, all I can say is it's ruined the experience for me. I'm never a minority that should be taken into consideration when developing an MMO, this is just my two cents.

The reason I bought HoT was to get access to the daredevil specialization and gliding, because it became a WvW feature, I never did anything with the content after getting gliding. I chose not to buy PoF because none of the new specializations interested me and mounts did affect the gamemodes I played. I wouldn't mind buying PoF to get access to the Warclaw, or what ever the WvW mount is called, it just seems sad from every perspective, that the only reason I'd do so, is because I've been forced into it, not because I want some of the other amazing content the expansion surely has to offer.

From the narrow perspective of a person that has not only excluded themselves from ninety-nine percentage of the game, but chose to play WvW as a roaming group/soloplayer, the WvW mount has killed WvW for me.

To start of with the small things, I'm marked with No Mount Use, which is fine expect not only can I see it, but so can the enemies. Meaning I end up being chased across the map by a pack of dogs, who're running at the speed of lightning trying to catch me. Forcing me to run back into a tower, spawn or try to fight 1vX. Before the mount, through game knowledge I was able to determine which fights I was able to take, run away from or visually view how much time I'd have before people would respawn or be able to react in certain situations. That's no longer the case and some would say that I should just get the mount as well, that way I could just mount up and leave if I so pleased.

This bring me to the larger things, the way classes differentiate themselves in combat, through player choice. I sacrificed a lot of things in regards to class and build for mobility. It's a thing I value highly in my gameplay, and I'm willing to go far to get it. That's my choice and I have to live with the consequences the game see fit. This choice allows for me to benefit from that in the environment I am in, but when everyone gets a tool that has so much build in mobility that I can't even keep up with it, with no downside, it's like spitting in my face.

I'm aware some balance could be made to the health of the mount or the movement speed, and that might be enough to make it more fair. As I see it now, all the mount did was limit the build and ways to play WvW ever more then it already is. I don't enjoy being forced into a specialization or group scenario because all that's left to do in WvW is running around 50 people following a guy with a marker on his head.

I tried to keep it short and only bring up the main things that from my perspective is wrong with the implementation.

Thanks for making it this far, I hope you enjoyed the view into what is not your regular Gw2 player. Looking forward to the discussion and feel free to ask any question you may have, I can't promise I'll answer them though.

Ciren, Far Shiverpeaks.

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I'm not a fan of the mount. I'm even less of a fan of daredevils. I can't do anything about the first, but I can continue to kill the other.

I thought they should make the mount in WvW available to everyone regardless of owning POF. Use it as a promotion to buy the expansion for the mounts in PVE. That way the balance of mount maneuverability isn't restricted to POF ownership only and Anet may sell a few more copies to those liking the mount.

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Class balance is a hole other topic, which I won't get into with my limited knowledge of the other classes. I'm not against the fact that I have to purchase PoF to get access to something the expansion offers, mounts. However I do hope they'll look at how it's affecting WvW and make some changes.

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Well apart from warclaw being balanced or not, I agree that it should be given to everyone regardless of the expansion. That no mount thing is another issue that needs to be solved. But I think Anet really wants that 30 bucks. Sorry for your bad experience :(

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I'd happily give them money, I'll spend way more then I'd like to reveal on games like Path of Exile. Not because I had to, to gain access to content, but because I loved the game, and it was going in a direction that made sense to me. Don't apologize it's my decision to have the experience :)

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@"Cirin.7845" said:I just don't wanna see the already reduced amount of play styles and specializations be reduced even more, because of a mount.Why would mounts decrease the amount of play styles? Previously, the majority of roamers only played builds with a lot of mobility. Now, roamers can roam on almost any class. I've seen a lot more roamers on the "slow" classes since the release of mounts.

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@Shining One.1635 said:

@"Cirin.7845" said:I just don't wanna see the already reduced amount of play styles and specializations be reduced even more, because of a mount.Why would mounts decrease the amount of play styles? Previously, the majority of roamers only played builds with a lot of mobility. Now, roamers can roam on almost any class. I've seen a lot more roamers on the "slow" classes since the release of mounts.

That's a fair point, maybe the mount is actually increasing the diversity of build, because they now have the ability to get somewhere fast. That still isn't something they sacrificed anything for though. Classes that priorities or are build around mobility are being punished because this is now granted to everyone.

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@Cirin.7845 said:

@Cirin.7845 said:I just don't wanna see the already reduced amount of play styles and specializations be reduced even more, because of a mount.Why would mounts decrease the amount of play styles? Previously, the majority of roamers only played builds with a lot of mobility. Now, roamers can roam on almost any class. I've seen a lot more roamers on the "slow" classes since the release of mounts.

That's a fair point, maybe the mount is actually increasing the diversity of build, because they now have the ability to get somewhere fast. That still isn't something they sacrificed anything for though. Classes that priorities or are build around mobility are being punished because this is now granted to everyone.

Humm.... I haven't unlocked it yet myself, since i haven't been active in the game lately, but isn't it supposed to only be significantly fast inside owned areas, to truly be a roamer you need to go out of those "comfort zones", which would still make fast moving builds relevant since the mount offers less of an advantage. If that's not the case, and i misread wherever i got that info, then disregard that.

@"alain.1659" said:Well apart from warclaw being balanced or not, I agree that it should be given to everyone regardless of the expansion. That no mount thing is another issue that needs to be solved. But I think Anet really wants that 30 bucks. Sorry for your bad experience :(

IMO, the best solution would be to sell the Warclaw and Gliders in the gemstore...Hear me out, it wouldn't be, tadaa you have the thing that other people have to do this work for. (well not gliders)I'd market it as a 2500 gems item that includes a "non-deluxe" skin for the mount, or for gliders a 1200 gem item with a meh glider skin.Buying it would only unlock that item as if you owned the expansion, every other aspect of the acquisition for the item would be the same. Also, you'd be restricted to using it in WvW only.Otherwise, SUPPORT THE DAMN GAME AND BUY THE EXPANSIONS?!!

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@Cirin.7845 said:

@Cirin.7845 said:I just don't wanna see the already reduced amount of play styles and specializations be reduced even more, because of a mount.Why would mounts decrease the amount of play styles? Previously, the majority of roamers only played builds with a lot of mobility. Now, roamers can roam on almost any class. I've seen a lot more roamers on the "slow" classes since the release of mounts.

That's a fair point, maybe the mount is actually increasing the diversity of build, because they now have the ability to get somewhere fast. That still isn't something they sacrificed anything for though. Classes that priorities or are build around mobility are being punished because this is now granted to everyone.

Not exactly true because mobile builds still have crucial advantages, which is a higher chance of disengaging from a committed fight when things go wrong. Stealth/port/leap away to go out of combat before mounting up to run.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Not exactly true because mobile builds still have crucial advantages, which is a higher chance of disengaging from a committed fight when things go wrong. Stealth/port/leap away to go out of combat before mounting up to run.

That not really the point, since we always had and will have that. It's about roaming and moving around the map. Which is something the mount provides to everyone at equal level. Where before I could chose to gain more mobility, so I could get places faster then other builds/classes and out rotate them. And stealth has nothing to do with mobility, not getting into that either, though I believe stealth brings nothing good to the game, when every class has it and can spam it.

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@"ReaverKane.7598" said:IMO, the best solution would be to sell the Warclaw and Gliders in the gemstore...Hear me out, it wouldn't be, tadaa you have the thing that other people have to do this work for. (well not gliders)I'd market it as a 2500 gems item that includes a "non-deluxe" skin for the mount, or for gliders a 1200 gem item with a meh glider skin.Buying it would only unlock that item as if you owned the expansion, every other aspect of the acquisition for the item would be the same. Also, you'd be restricted to using it in WvW only.Otherwise, SUPPORT THE kitten GAME AND BUY THE EXPANSIONS?!!

Not sure how we gat onto the hole thing about acquiring the mount, don't really care how it's done. Supporting the game however, is a personal decision, it's not something I wanna do just because someone tells me I should. Arenanet choose this business model, if they wanted me to pay to gain access to the game, they could have just done a monthly subscription, when you make choices, you have to live with them.

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@Cirin.7845 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Not exactly true because mobile builds still have crucial advantages, which is a higher chance of disengaging from a committed fight when things go wrong. Stealth/port/leap away to go out of combat before mounting up to run.

That not really the point, since we always had and will have that. It's about roaming and moving around the map. Which is something the mount provides to everyone at equal level. Where before I could chose to gain more mobility, so I could get places faster then other builds/classes and out rotate them. And stealth has nothing to do with mobility, not getting into that either, though I believe stealth brings nothing good to the game, when every class has it and can spam it.

You can in fact still get to places faster on a mobile build.Some players rotate between mount and dismount by doing this.

Mount evade x 3 -> dismount and use all mobility skills -> remount and evade x 3 again -> repeat

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@Shining One.1635 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Mount evade x 3 -> dismount and use all mobility skills -> remount and evade x 3 again -> repeatDon't forget about the thieves and mesmers who dismount, port to a location the mount can't immediately reach, then remount and continue on.Seems like there's a lot of good arguments for the mount being implemented into WvW, so am I just the odd egg out and it has no flaws?

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@Cirin.7845 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Mount evade x 3 -> dismount and use all mobility skills -> remount and evade x 3 again -> repeatDon't forget about the thieves and mesmers who dismount, port to a location the mount can't immediately reach, then remount and continue on.Seems like there's a lot of good arguments for the mount being implemented into WvW, so am I just the odd egg out and it has no flaws?

What springs to mind is things like gap closing, and having the distance advantage/disadvantage. Now players just run up next to you or use the mount ability.

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Stop playing WvW like many others have...

WvW isn't the warzone it once was, its now PvE 2.0 but only safer because even PvE mobs have more access to dismounting skills and so forth.. Unlike player skills, NPCs were balanced around mounted play.

Play a game that makes you smile and wait for this game to rediscover it's essence or wait for it to have a clear distinction of WvW and PvE because they are both rather similar at the moment.

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@Cirin.7845

I like the mount but you have some very valid points that should have been considered by ANET. Great post btw.

Imo, they should at least have a warclaw rent vendor in WvW for players who are working on the mount, and for players like you who don't have the expansion. Being without the Warclaw in WvW is a huge disadvantage and discourages new players, etc. now that everyone else has one. Not a very good long term strategy by ANET.

But on the other side, ANET doesn't charge a sub and, for the most part, isn't a pay to win game (Pay to transfer to Win in WvW though). They encourage people to buy the expansions with elites, mounts, etc because they have to pay the bills somehow. Making a game isn't cheap. So not buying PoF is your choice, but eventually you were going to run into a wall of some sort.

Compared to how bad most other games are at micro-transactions, ANET is good to us. I have problems with their crap meta design in WvW, but give them a pass on most other things since it's usually better than the alternative.

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This is why I was surprised that they set the mount speed as high as they did. I had expected it to more similar to a character with Swiftness. That way it would have served as a permanent swiftness, which is already possible in the game. Without messing up the diffferent mobility aspects of the game.

On the other hand, I can't say I'm too sad about being able to catch up to thieves for once.

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@Grim West.3194 said:But on the other side, ANET doesn't charge a sub and, for the most part, isn't a pay to win game (Pay to transfer to Win in WvW though).

I respectfully disagree.

They encourage people to buy the expansions with elites, mounts, etc because they have to pay the bills somehow. Making a game isn't cheap. So not buying PoF is your choice, but eventually you were going to run into a wall of some sort.

When Elite specs make up the majority of the WvW and PvP meta, if it's not pay to win it's so close that if they got married it would be illegal.

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@displayname.8315 said:Oh a mount thread sigh was looking for something entertaining..

If you don't want to invest in your favorite MMO that's a shame. Game sales are soo common nowadays.

Used to pay $15/month just to log in to our online games.. Kids these days ?‍♂️

People probably would invest more in this game if the developers showed they were seriously willing to invest in wvw as much as the players do all these years now.But they don't, we all know how understaffed the wvw section is.What have players gotten?Core wvw guild bonuses dumped back into a HoT guildhall that needs a pve material grind to regain.Multiple maps that don't suite a lot of main wvw players, with their suggestions and opinions ignored for a good amount.Quality of life features like automatic aoe looting tucked behind HoT mastery line which the wvw players had to BEG to even get after pve were given it first.Glider features which made movement more convenient but also forced to change some things like ogrewatch tower and not for the better.Elite specs that have proven to be better than previous specs, worsened balance, and forced metas.Broken stuff ignored for months like ghost thieves that were broken for like 6 months, but hey take one shot at a raid boss and it finally gets the nerf bat.Relinks that have fixed some issues but also didn't, it broke communities, and players continue to break the balance with bandwagons with alliances in advance of the actual system coming in the 23rd century.New mount that does more for anet than wvw, it has it's share of good and bad things that it brings to wvw.There have been some good things like rewards finally offered at a decent rate, albeit still far behind on time to acquire than pve.

Bottom line is, don't expect someone to invest in gw2 if they mainly play wvw and see no love on a regular basis for it.

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