I would gladly exchange 9 new specializations for 3 new professions

Each expansion has, so far, introduced nine new specializations. It's only logical to assume that, if we get a third expansion, it will also come with a new batch of specializations.

I, however, would rather have three new professions instead:

• The Paragon (in heavy armor)
• The Dervish (in medium armor)
• The Ritualist (in light armor)

I often see people saying that those three could be implemented as specializations, but really, they can't. Each of those professions had multiple skill types and multiples roles - just one weapon and five skills (of a single skill type) are not nearly enough to convey everything those professions could do. The specialization system is simply too shallow for this.

With one new profession of each armor weight, we would keep the same parity between heavy/medium/light we have today. Balance-wise, it would likely be easier to manage three new professions than adding even more new specializations to what we already have (considering all possible interactions between new and old skills). I wouldn't be surprised if three new professions meant actually less skills than the nine specializations.

And those new professions would be a way to add more, different kinds of combat effects than what we have right now. GW2 is too focused on effects that are shared between all professions - boons, conditions, fields -, with few significant unique effects. Paragons (with chants, echoes and etc), Dervishes (with enchantments) and Ritualists (with spirits and weapon spells) would be a perfect way to counter this.

But, wouldn't it be 3 new Professions plus 6 new Elite Specializations? Which would be a total of 15, or is it 18, new specialization lines?Actually, it would be 21 new trait lines, instead of 9 (for the Elite Specializations).

If they were going to put Dervish and Paragon into the game as classes, they would have done so with PoF, since those classes originate from that area. As much as I love the ritualist, I don't think we will ever get that as a class either, just because they needed to make that 3rd heavy and they made a pseudo ritualist with the revanent.

As well as not to mention the specializations they would need to make for each.

But it would be nice to see them in the game, as like with a lot of the GW classes, they have a uniqueness to them.

@Erasculio.2914 said:I often see people saying that those three could be implemented as specializations, but really, they can't. Each of those professions had multiple skill types and multiples roles - just one weapon and five skills (of a single skill type) are not nearly enough to convey everything those professions could do. The specialization system is simply too shallow for this.

Are the schools of magic of GW1 really that synonymous with the professions of GW2 though?

Also that sounds like you're challenging the forums. You explain to me how one of those professions you list is too broad of a role to make as a specialization (you'll have to make it detailed as I never played GW1) and I'll figure out a way to prove you wrong.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:But, wouldn't it be 3 new Professions plus 6 new Elite Specializations? Which would be a total of 15, or is it 18, new specialization lines?Actually, it would be 21 new trait lines, instead of 9 (for the Elite Specializations).

No specializations. Otherwise, we would have the same issue we had in the original Guild Wars:

• Chapter 1 had 6 professions
• Chapter 2 had 2 new professions and skills for the 6 old ones
• Chapter 3 had 2 new professions and skills for the 8 old ones

Chapter 5 would have had skills for what, 14 professions? Making content that demands future content leads to madness.

@"Leo G.4501" said:You explain to me how one of those professions you list is too broad of a role to make as a specialization (you'll have to make it detailed as I never played GW1) and I'll figure out a way to prove you wrong.

The professions in GW2 don't really have a role. Between the original skills and the specializations, they're less about what they do (since almost everyone does a bit of everything) and more about how they do it. When we consider the "how" of the GW1 professions, a specialization is too small for them.

Must they add more classes or specializations? They could go with new race(s), new zones, or many other things not directly or indirectly related to the specializations/classes/

ANet's committed to specializations as the way to add progression. We get some variety while ANet has much, much less to manage in terms of balance. As @Inculpatus cedo.9234 points out above, each new profession would also include two elite specializations, so the degree of complexity is already comparable to an entire expansion worth of elites for the existing profession.

I often see people saying that those three could be implemented as specializations,That's entirely moot. There are no GW1 professions that are implemented in GW2. GW1 mesmer doesn't exist in GW2, necros are different (although not by as much), and so on. Nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia doesn't seem like a good idea to make the game attractive to new players, especially given that GW2 brought in far, far more players than GW1 dreamed of.

You're better off describing what you actually want in terms of gameplay and leaving it to ANet to figure out whether it's best implemented as a new prof or a new spec. And maybe it will turn out as you prefer. Maybe not.

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:But, wouldn't it be 3 new Professions plus 6 new Elite Specializations? Which would be a total of 15, or is it 18, new specialization lines?Actually, it would be 21 new trait lines, instead of 9 (for the Elite Specializations).

• Chapter 1 had 6 professions
• Chapter 2 had 2 new professions and skills for the 6 old ones
• Chapter 3 had 2 new professions and skills for the 8 old ones

@"Leo G.4501" said:You explain to me how one of those professions you list is too broad of a role to make as a specialization (you'll have to make it detailed as I never played GW1) and I'll figure out a way to prove you wrong.

Why would those 3 Professions only have 5 specialization trait lines to choose from, while every other profession has 7? Why would those Professions be without any Elite Specializations, when every other Profession has 2? Is that what the playerbase desires? Inequality in Professions?

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:ANet's committed to specializations as the way to add progression. We get some variety while ANet has much, much less to manage in terms of balance. As @Inculpatus cedo.9234 points out above, each new profession would also include two elite specializations, so the degree of complexity is already comparable to an entire expansion worth of elites for the existing profession.

Things change. ArenaNet had once said that it was very unlikely that GW2 would ever get an expansion, yet here we are. It's not written in stone that we won't get new professions in the future (we did get one new profession with HoT, by the way), nor is it written in stone that all professions must have two elite specializations, and so on.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Why would those 3 Professions only have 5 specialization trait lines to choose from, while every other profession has 7? Why would those Professions be without any Elite Specializations, when every other Profession has 2? Is that what the playerbase desires? Unequality in Professions?

Ask the Revenant. Why does it have less utility skills than the other professions? Why is it that Revenants cannot use racial skills? Why is it that the Revenant has less flexibility in swapping utility skills around than the other professions? And so on.

There is already unequality in the game's professions. The question you have to ask is, which is better? A new profession with less specializations, or no new profession at all?

tl;dr the OP seems intent on trying to remake GW2 so that they can have GW1. If ANet wanted anything like that, they would have made GW2 more like the old game. Imposing old concepts into incompatible mechanics seems like a recipe for disappointment at best.

My point-by-point comments ...

! > The professions in GW2 don't really have a role.! Yes, that's part of the design. Until you accept that, you're going to have a difficult time convincing ANet of any idea about the future of specs in GW2.!! > Between the original skills and the specializations, they're less about what they do (since almost everyone does a bit of everything) and more about how they do it.! Yes, that's how GW2 is designed.!! > When we consider the "how" of the GW1 professions, a specialization is too small for them.! Then what is the point? The "how" of GW1 was scrapped. This is a different style of game, the mechanics are different, the balance is different, the gameplay is different. How is shoehorning something from GW1 going to make GW2 better?!! > No specializations.! So you propose to gut the current system in favor of returning to a system designed for a different ame.!! > Chapter 1 had 6 professions! > Chapter 2 had 2 new professions and skills for the 6 old ones! > * Chapter 3 had 2 new professions and skills for the 8 old ones! > Chapter 5 would have had skills for what, 14 professions?! I think you meant 12 (adding two per chapter, if it continued in the same pattern, which, by the way, it didn't).!! > Making content that demands future content leads to madness.! What? How does any of that relate to this game.!!!

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:ANet's committed to specializations as the way to add progression. We get

some

variety while ANet has much, much less to manage in terms of balance. As @Inculpatus cedo.9234 points out above, each new profession would also include two elite specializations, so the degree of complexity is already comparable to an entire expansion worth of elites for the existing profession.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Why would those 3 Professions only have 5 specialization trait lines to choose from, while every other profession has 7? Why would those Professions be without any Elite Specializations, when every other Profession has 2? Is that what the playerbase desires? Unequality in Professions?

And, if posts are anything to go by, the playerbase is not satisfied with the inequality of the Revenant. So, more is proposed?

@Erasculio.2914 said:The question you have to ask is, which is better? A new profession with less specializations, or no new profession at all?

More could be better, but players already complain about balance and lack of roles and lack of support for current professions. Adding more could exacerbate those issues as you haven't really stated how adding more would resolve those issues.

The devs did mention more focus on horizontal progression and while adding professions isn't actual progress, it is something that doesn't add to vertical progress.

@Erasculio.2914 said:The question you have to ask is, which is better? A new profession with less specializations, or no new profession at all?Why would I want to ask that?

The question that interests me is: what sort of gameplay and balance and future content will we get with a new profession with no elite specs compared to what we are getting in the current situation?And based on the descriptions in this thread, here's what I see offered:

• Nostalgia for the names of classes from GW1
• Nostalgia for the types of classes seen in GW1

I haven't seen any acknowledgement of the likely difficulty in balancing 12 classes versus 9, of the difference in maintenance costs, or of how any of this would add to this game.

Honestly, you can't make this decision for the community at large. I understand people really want GW1 professions in GW2 (I've seen it discussed here and in-game), but if they haven't done it by now, they most likely won't. Adding new professions really won't make the game any more balanced. As I said before in another thread about new elite specs: They have a hard enough time trying to balance the current ones. Adding more would just make it worse.

You'd have to be god-tier Billy Mays level convincing to get both Anet and the community to agree with you on this.

EDIT: I misinterpreted the title. Fixed the post to reflect that.

Another issue with this is also that people who don't make alts don't get new class content at all. In GW1 you can have subclasses, so if I played a warrior then if dervishes are released I can try playing W/D. Of course that's not a thing here. So I am going to be playing with the same abilities and that's pretty depressing when having class updates is one of the best thing to look forward to.

I would be glad if Anet stays away from producing more nostalgia, fun service anything for a while.

As long as they came with specialisations then sure. But not if they didn’t. I’d rather just stick with new specialisations in which case.

I don’t want new classes, I want new elite specs.

@Erasculio.2914 said:Each expansion has, so far, introduced nine new specializations. It's only logical to assume that, if we get a third expansion, it will also come with a new batch of specializations.No, this is not logical. The new expansion opposite can simplify trait list, make LESS, ot leave it the same.This can be have tie only with water content, or only with www expanding to other addition second floor on all tyria or etc.

Personally I am sure that new expansion don't bring any new fail classes or any new fail elite specs.

I honestly prefer new elite specs over new classes by a mile. Elite specs allow me to explore different playstyles with my existing characters. I may have to get them all new equipment, hero points and whatever, but it's an established character and I don't have to redo all the basics (story, exploration, base specializations) unless I want to.

New classes require new characters with all the basic character building mandatory. New elite specs allow for either new characters or new twists on existing characters. I'd take that choice any day.

Specializations are fine, we don't really need any new classes.

I'd like them to do elite specs that change the armor type of your character

Im open for everything but I kinda feel Anet may dont have the energy to do it atm hopefully one day

I don't really see the point in Dervish, Paragon or Ritualist.

As far as roles go, the Dervish never really had one in GW1, the Paragon was so rubbish its only good skill was actually from the Warrior, and the Ritualist was always struggling for relevance until Signet of Spirits was reworked (and now SoS is what people mean when they say they want a Ritualist).

For the thematic roles, the Paragon was supplanted by the Guardian (which actually works, unlike the Paragon) and the Renegade specialization is a Ritualist in all but name. It would be nice if the Renegade had some more variety in the spirit selection, but that's a general Revenant problem which needs addressing.

As far as the Dervish goes, it was probably my least played GW1 class apart from warrior, so I'm not really that clear on what it is by comparison. Has a scythe, spams and burns enchantments. Has a bit of burning, blind and invulnerable. Sounds pretty much like a meditation guardian really, just minus the scythe.

So, to wrap up that little ramble, all three of those classes are looking for a niche that's already occupied by something else (and better, except for the Rit). There's just no gameplay reason for them to be there.

Ironically, the main archetype that's missing from GW2 is the Mesmer.

normally i would agree with adding the ritualist since they have failed numerous times adding it in some form or shape, however, it's best to add it correctly within a specialization.

if you want the rit in GW2 the necro is the perfect candidate, making it a control/support role with spirits.i ones had the idea of the banshee, a longbow wielding necromancer that uses haunted spirits to control the battlefield.they would have attacks that pins down or slow enemies while being perfectly able to handle their own when the need arises.