Elemental Conjures — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Elemental Conjures

ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

Could/ Should they be turned into kits?
Would the be better or worse this way?
Do you think they would see more use or even less than they already do?

I would personally love to work in the conjure weapons into my builds without feeling like have to hold onto the weapon for its full duration to make the most of it which completely flows against ele's play style which involves constant swapping. Im pretty new ish to the ele world but this idea just seems like it would be a neat QoL of course the skills in the weapons would need their damage values and cds adjusted but i mean its so hard to work it into a build right now where you lose your weapon skills for an insanely unreasonable amount of time if you want to make the most of the weapon or you throw the weapon down after burning through the skills once and completely ignore the fact that you are wasting a utility.

I get that a few weapons were better as conjures but now after many of the adjustments its rare to see them used at all. So a fix to drop the class skill in line with the others resulted in possibly what is now a badly designed utility skill? hmmmmm... Just thinking.... I hope anet has skill updates/reowrks planned in with season 5's features :sunglasses:

What are your guys thoughts on this. Feel free to say why you think they would be better or worse as them. (this is probably not the first time this has been posted here im jut too lazy to scroll through page after page to look.)

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    no. ele has 4 attunements. at most reduce cd.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Kits plz. The old conjure system doesn’t make sense anymore.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I swear I know of another world below. It shows just in the rain. It's here I know. It's inaccessible. The reverse of us.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I think maybe just adjusting the damage and cooldowns might work overall better than having fixed charges but if it had to be a fix number of uses perhaps maybe the auto attacks wouldnt use those charges. Im no ele pro but i would much rather have something that i can use mechanically smooth than something that feels so anti ele.

    Spawn a weapon and not want to let it go while locking yourself out of your attunement skills Im just thinking it would be nice to pickup / put down the weapons and make for alot of combo options :)

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    no. ele has 4 attunements. at most reduce cd.

    ???? I dont understand why you are saying no and pointing out attunements?

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I think maybe just adjusting the damage and cooldowns might work overall better than having fixed charges but if it had to be a fix number of uses perhaps maybe the auto attacks wouldnt use those charges. Im no ele pro but i would much rather have something that i can use mechanically smooth than something that feels so anti ele.

    Spawn a weapon and not want to let it go while locking yourself out of your attunement skills Im just thinking it would be nice to pickup / put down the weapons and make for alot of combo options :)

    The problems I face with conjures are long cooldowns, many useless skills, can't ever replace a useful utility skill and they are probably worse than dueling on staff as well as them getting stolen or accidentally picked up when rez'ing. Having an initiative/tomes system for anything but auto attacks would allow us for example to use shield's block twice and other skills of actual use. The problem with dropping down weapons mainly exists in PvP and WvW where it is almost impossible to get back to the FGS that you dropped as there are probably 10 billion shades covering it mid-fight, which makes the whole idea of dropping the weapon useless. In raids, this might be somehow ok, but you will still need some planning and any randomness can cause you to miss the 2nd conjure. Also, say you are under heavy crowd control, having them instant like kits, would ensure that you will stun break/make use of effects while in such position, since the class has only 3 stun breaks, one on core, other on weaver, third on tempest, having a stun break is 100% crucial and a conjure won't ever replace such important skill, Flash is mostly picked for high mobility, but its alternatives are still not conjures, thus, conjures need to be instant and need to have stun breaks/1s of reduced damage for shield, etc.

    Reducing cooldowns wouldn't change anything for PvP or WvW because they are barely picked, and the skills are mostly awful across all weapons.

    I swear I know of another world below. It shows just in the rain. It's here I know. It's inaccessible. The reverse of us.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I think maybe just adjusting the damage and cooldowns might work overall better than having fixed charges but if it had to be a fix number of uses perhaps maybe the auto attacks wouldnt use those charges. Im no ele pro but i would much rather have something that i can use mechanically smooth than something that feels so anti ele.

    Spawn a weapon and not want to let it go while locking yourself out of your attunement skills Im just thinking it would be nice to pickup / put down the weapons and make for alot of combo options :)

    The problems I face with conjures are long cooldowns, many useless skills, can't ever replace a useful utility skill and they are probably worse than dueling on staff as well as them getting stolen or accidentally picked up when rez'ing. Having an initiative/tomes system for anything but auto attacks would allow us for example to use shield's block twice and other skills of actual use. The problem with dropping down weapons mainly exists in PvP and WvW where it is almost impossible to get back to the FGS that you dropped as there are probably 10 billion shades covering it mid-fight, which makes the whole idea of dropping the weapon useless. In raids, this might be somehow ok, but you will still need some planning and any randomness can cause you to miss the 2nd conjure. Also, say you are under heavy crowd control, having them instant like kits, would ensure that you will stun break/make use of effects while in such position, since the class has only 3 stun breaks, one on core, other on weaver, third on tempest, having a stun break is 100% crucial and a conjure won't ever replace such important skill, Flash is mostly picked for high mobility, but its alternatives are still not conjures, thus, conjures need to be instant and need to have stun breaks/1s of reduced damage for shield, etc.

    Reducing cooldowns wouldn't change anything for PvP or WvW because they are barely picked, and the skills are mostly awful across all weapons.

    I dont think you are understanding me.... as kits you would be able to draw and stowe the weapons as much as you like with pretty much no cooldown the cooldowns im talking about are on the skills within the weapons themselves.

    This is partly why i would love to see them become kits. This removes the ability for allies to pick them up but i mean most allies dont do that anyways.
    Most of the weapon conjure skills within the weapons have ok cooldowns as is. Its just the the fact that accessing those weapons can be a bit of a pain. The cooldown to access those weapons are high and once you drop the weapon its gone forever.

    I dont feel like the weapons would need to include break stuns as you are going to be unlikely to run all coujor weapons, no engi kit currently has a breakstun thus these wont need such a thing either. Ideally if you are running without a break stun you know the risk you are taking from the start. But something like earth sheild could make for a very good defensive utility provide you could pick up and put it down fluidly.

    The only conjure that would need a bit of a nerf would be firey great sword as you would have access to it hundreds of times more than you would normally. So the auto attack might need to be changed and skills 3-5 would need some cooldown adjustments.

  • Make clap Conjures clap Ammo Based

  • @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I think maybe just adjusting the damage and cooldowns might work overall better than having fixed charges but if it had to be a fix number of uses perhaps maybe the auto attacks wouldnt use those charges. Im no ele pro but i would much rather have something that i can use mechanically smooth than something that feels so anti ele.

    Spawn a weapon and not want to let it go while locking yourself out of your attunement skills Im just thinking it would be nice to pickup / put down the weapons and make for alot of combo options :)

    The problems I face with conjures are long cooldowns, many useless skills, can't ever replace a useful utility skill and they are probably worse than dueling on staff as well as them getting stolen or accidentally picked up when rez'ing. Having an initiative/tomes system for anything but auto attacks would allow us for example to use shield's block twice and other skills of actual use. The problem with dropping down weapons mainly exists in PvP and WvW where it is almost impossible to get back to the FGS that you dropped as there are probably 10 billion shades covering it mid-fight, which makes the whole idea of dropping the weapon useless. In raids, this might be somehow ok, but you will still need some planning and any randomness can cause you to miss the 2nd conjure. Also, say you are under heavy crowd control, having them instant like kits, would ensure that you will stun break/make use of effects while in such position, since the class has only 3 stun breaks, one on core, other on weaver, third on tempest, having a stun break is 100% crucial and a conjure won't ever replace such important skill, Flash is mostly picked for high mobility, but its alternatives are still not conjures, thus, conjures need to be instant and need to have stun breaks/1s of reduced damage for shield, etc.

    Reducing cooldowns wouldn't change anything for PvP or WvW because they are barely picked, and the skills are mostly awful across all weapons.

    I dont think you are understanding me.... as kits you would be able to draw and stowe the weapons as much as you like with pretty much no cooldown the cooldowns im talking about are on the skills within the weapons themselves.

    This is partly why i would love to see them become kits. This removes the ability for allies to pick them up but i mean most allies dont do that anyways.
    Most of the weapon conjure skills within the weapons have ok cooldowns as is. Its just the the fact that accessing those weapons can be a bit of a pain. The cooldown to access those weapons are high and once you drop the weapon its gone forever.

    I dont feel like the weapons would need to include break stuns as you are going to be unlikely to run all coujor weapons, no engi kit currently has a breakstun thus these wont need such a thing either. Ideally if you are running without a break stun you know the risk you are taking from the start. But something like earth sheild could make for a very good defensive utility provide you could pick up and put it down fluidly.

    The only conjure that would need a bit of a nerf would be firey great sword as you would have access to it hundreds of times more than you would normally. So the auto attack might need to be changed and skills 3-5 would need some cooldown adjustments.

    In the past, you used to want allies to pick up conjured weapons for group dps but that reason is long gone now thanks to several nerfings to them. As you stated, there’s no reason to pick them up now.

    I mostly play a melee Elementalist and would love to have a frostbow kit to have a range option, though, I wish frostbow was 1200 range.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    They can work like kits in terms of cast time, so you won't get interrupted for either spawning the weapon or picking it up off the ground. Now since kits have lower damage compared to conjures, we can add an initiative/tome/mantra system to the weapons, with which you have 2 ammo charges, let recharge be 15/20s. This way we can hold onto the same effects without (hard) nerfs, and have access to the same skill twice in a row while still limited by ammo count.

    Also, many skills need a rework, but I would rather have the idea above in live servers first.

    I think maybe just adjusting the damage and cooldowns might work overall better than having fixed charges but if it had to be a fix number of uses perhaps maybe the auto attacks wouldnt use those charges. Im no ele pro but i would much rather have something that i can use mechanically smooth than something that feels so anti ele.

    Spawn a weapon and not want to let it go while locking yourself out of your attunement skills Im just thinking it would be nice to pickup / put down the weapons and make for alot of combo options :)

    The problems I face with conjures are long cooldowns, many useless skills, can't ever replace a useful utility skill and they are probably worse than dueling on staff as well as them getting stolen or accidentally picked up when rez'ing. Having an initiative/tomes system for anything but auto attacks would allow us for example to use shield's block twice and other skills of actual use. The problem with dropping down weapons mainly exists in PvP and WvW where it is almost impossible to get back to the FGS that you dropped as there are probably 10 billion shades covering it mid-fight, which makes the whole idea of dropping the weapon useless. In raids, this might be somehow ok, but you will still need some planning and any randomness can cause you to miss the 2nd conjure. Also, say you are under heavy crowd control, having them instant like kits, would ensure that you will stun break/make use of effects while in such position, since the class has only 3 stun breaks, one on core, other on weaver, third on tempest, having a stun break is 100% crucial and a conjure won't ever replace such important skill, Flash is mostly picked for high mobility, but its alternatives are still not conjures, thus, conjures need to be instant and need to have stun breaks/1s of reduced damage for shield, etc.

    Reducing cooldowns wouldn't change anything for PvP or WvW because they are barely picked, and the skills are mostly awful across all weapons.

    I dont think you are understanding me.... as kits you would be able to draw and stowe the weapons as much as you like with pretty much no cooldown the cooldowns im talking about are on the skills within the weapons themselves.

    This is partly why i would love to see them become kits. This removes the ability for allies to pick them up but i mean most allies dont do that anyways.
    Most of the weapon conjure skills within the weapons have ok cooldowns as is. Its just the the fact that accessing those weapons can be a bit of a pain. The cooldown to access those weapons are high and once you drop the weapon its gone forever.

    I dont feel like the weapons would need to include break stuns as you are going to be unlikely to run all coujor weapons, no engi kit currently has a breakstun thus these wont need such a thing either. Ideally if you are running without a break stun you know the risk you are taking from the start. But something like earth sheild could make for a very good defensive utility provide you could pick up and put it down fluidly.

    The only conjure that would need a bit of a nerf would be firey great sword as you would have access to it hundreds of times more than you would normally. So the auto attack might need to be changed and skills 3-5 would need some cooldown adjustments.

    In the past, you used to want allies to pick up conjured weapons for group dps but that reason is long gone now thanks to several nerfings to them. As you stated, there’s no reason to pick them up now.

    I mostly play a melee Elementalist and would love to have a frostbow kit to have a range option, though, I wish frostbow was 1200 range.

    I would personally mostly want to use the flame axe and maybe the earth shield those are the most interesting too me ;)

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    Probably a good way of doing it would have the skill work with an ammo system, and in the conjure itself, put back a charge system with different skills spending a different number of charges (except the auto attack)

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