Should Arenanet go back to old dungeons to improve them for the new and old player experience? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Should Arenanet go back to old dungeons to improve them for the new and old player experience?

As a veteran player, dungeons might feel "irrelevant", old, outdated content which nobody barely does anymore, when we have fractals and other open world content with their own map rewards. But for a new players, the dungeons usually are first experience of a "group oriented content" that they experience in the game.
As new players they rarely have understanding of the end game content and dungeons that they experience could have huge impact of how they perceive the game.

Dungeons haven't aged well, when it comes to old bugs or the rewards they give. Of course many older players might remember the old gold farming in dungeons before it was changed to the repeatable achievement gold reward we have today.

Do you think Arenanet should revitalize dungeons, so people would want to go there more often? Maybe update the bosses by reworking them from the scratch, introducing new combat mechanics what we have access now days in open world and raid content? Would that bring you as veteran player back more often to try dungeon path that you haven't done in a long time?

Should Arenanet go back to old dungeons to improve them for the new and old player experience? 142 votes

I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.
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mazut.4296Cerioth.7062ReaverKane.7598KryTiKaL.3125Stand The Wall.6987Worlds.7530Durzlla.6295Randulf.7614Gigalmesh.8513DarkwindStrike.7930sokeenoppa.5384ProtoGunner.4953Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Blue.1207nosleepdemon.1368Henry.5713Raiden The Beast.3016sigur.9453serialkicker.5274jwaz.1908 59 votes
I would want see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses, but no challenge mode is needed (since we have fractals).
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Jahroots.6791Fleabite.7528Asum.4960Pyroen.2086Kylden Ar.3724DeadTreeJig.6714Mysticjedi.6053Klipso.8653Genesis.8572Demented Yak.6105Schnuschnu.9857Thornwolf.9721SpyderArachnid.5619deatine.2498leunamsil.6742Kulvar.1239OpheliaMoon.7863Rooms Of Ruin.1965DragonFury.6243Shivan.9438 28 votes
I would wish to keep the old dungeons and bosses, but would like to challenge mode for extra rewards.
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Ertrak.9506MithranArkanere.8957Xstein.2187Zhaid Zhem.6508RavenRecoil.6103Iozeph.5617Okami Amaterasu.9237Elesmira.3782Baine.6834Excursion.9752Vegeta.9607 11 votes
I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.
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Astralporing.1957derd.6413Torn Fierceslash.6375Ayrilana.1396CETheLucid.3964Susy.7529Daddicus.6128Iris Ng.9845Robban.1256Raknar.4735Vayne.8563Lanthun.7251Shaogin.2679flog.3485Miss Lana.5276FOX.3582eduardo.1436Stalkingwolf.6035Lawliet.4017wasss.1208 44 votes
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Comments

  • I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    And to add for the conversation, lets throw in ideas how to make dungeons more interesting.

    I think a challenge mode that would give reward like ascended crafting material would help people to challenge themselves with friends more.
    The challenge mode could include finishing dungeons at certain time <- This especially if Anet would look into the bosses and bring some of that modern tech to their mechanics.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    For those wanting updated mechanics, keep in mind of the newer fractals, the newer TA path, and the remake of AC. That’s what you can expect.

    Be careful what you wish for.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will one up your idea and say that they should create different fractal paths, similar to how dungeon paths worked.

    It would probably be too convoluted and cause singular fractals to be too large to easily bug fix again but it would make them a hundred times more interesting, to me at least.

    I rather choose death.

    • remake of old dungeons, ...introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.
    • remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses,
    • keep the old dungeons ... [with] challenge mode for extra rewards.
    • fix.. the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    My vote: option 5: none of above. Invest the time into fractals or anything else that gains greater benefit from the same effort. Don't worry about bugs unless they prevent most people from completing the dungeon or can be exploited.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • remake of old dungeons, ...introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.
    • remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses,
    • keep the old dungeons ... [with] challenge mode for extra rewards.
    • fix.. the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    My vote: option 5: none of above. Invest the time into fractals or anything else that gains greater benefit from the same effort. Don't worry about bugs unless they prevent most people from completing the dungeon or can be exploited.

    I see your point, but having buggy dungeons that haven't "aged well" are still first things to new players who come to the game. In MMO's in general it is the dungeons that are the repeatable content for people to do, and yes, we have fractals at the end game for that aspect in Guild wars 2.

    But I recently brought two of my friends into the game and leveled up a new character with them in the open world content until we reached lvl 35, where we went to AC story mode and later the explorable paths. One of the paths bugged so we had to start the said path over and my friend was having a weird visual bug during the cutscenes in the story path, which brought their question of the game's quality "Is this what the dungeons are like", which I had to admit that yes, they include very, very old bugs that haven't been fixed.

    I hated to say that to them since I would rather see my friends (new players) being excited for the upcoming dungeons while leveling up, leading to fractals and raids at later on but it was "killjoy" experience for them to see that "this is what this games dungeons are like".

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    the only issue with dungeons i'd like to see fixed is that they're mandatory if you want to understand what's going on with destiny's edge in the final instance and yet are completely skipable. other then that (and the bugs) there's nothing wrong with dungeons nor do i see the need to bring them back

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • THE FORGE.7198THE FORGE.7198 Member ✭✭
    edited April 16, 2019
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    I do agree at some point, since dungeons were fun content that -anyone- could do on the fly (given you had the appropriate level requirement for each dungeon).
    Sure counter argument could be "But there are low level fractals that are open to everyone" but as a new player, you need to unlock them by rising your personal fractal level, which honestly isn't hard thing to do, but the point being "accessibility", where dungeons are open from the get-go.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    It's inaccurate to claim that dungeons "need" better rewards. The rewards are better than they were during some of the pre-fractal history; they just aren't as good as they were at the peak (when arguably they were over-valuable).
    Roughly speaking, 8 dungeons per day are worth 11-15 gold these days; before the 'nerf', they were worth 11-13 gold

    Khar the Charr's Dungeon Profits
    tl;dr version

    • The most important part of dungeon profitability is: token rewards
    • The most valuable way to turn tokens into gold is via trinket recipes (that will eventually drop for those who farm enough)
    • Including tokens, dungeons are better than they used to be

    Fractal Rares' Dungeon Profits
    tl;dr version

    • The average player (8 paths/day) lost around a measly 1g in liquid rewards, but gained twice as many tokens. (at LEAST 470)
    • The experienced player (16 paths/day) lost anywhere from 2-7g in liquid rewards, but gained at least 790 tokens.
    • The extreme minority of full clear runners (20 paths/day) lost 8g, and gained at least 1420 tokens

    See also:
    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/90wwix/why_do_we_not_have_a_separate_daily_for_dungeons/

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • @THE FORGE.7198 said:
    I see your point, but having buggy dungeons that haven't "aged well" are still first things to new players who come to the game.

    That depends on the players; some people never find them. If you think it sets a bad sign, though, the easy solution is to lock dungeons until the account has at least one L80 character.

    But I recently brought two of my friends into the game and leveled up a new character with them in the open world content until we reached lvl 35, where we went to AC story mode and later the explorable paths. One of the paths bugged so we had to start the said path over and my friend was having a weird visual bug during the cutscenes in the story path, which brought their question of the game's quality "Is this what the dungeons are like", which I had to admit that yes, they include very, very old bugs that haven't been fixed.

    And what's your proposal? Say they decide to fix all the bugs in just AC 1-3, including stuff that they've tried to resolve in the past without much success. During the same week it would take them to fix under half a dozen AC bugs, they could fix 40+ fractal issues.

    I hated to say that to them since I would rather see my friends (new players) being excited for the upcoming dungeons while leveling up, leading to fractals and raids at later on but it was "killjoy" experience for them to see that "this is what this games dungeons are like".

    Well if it were me showing people around, I would have said, "no, this isn't the game's dungeons; those are fractals. As soon as you hit L80, I'll take you there and those are much more interesting. This is just the stuff the game had at launch and ANet hasn't touched since."

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    It's inaccurate to claim that dungeons "need" better rewards.

    if they had better gold per hour, people would do them.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't really want any of the 4 choices. To me the main biggest problem with dungeons is getting a team reliably. So, first, changes should be made that address that problem.

    Also, before someone tries to tell me its easy to get a dungeon group. I'm looking through the 8 lfg tabs right now, 10 minutes after reset, and there are no groups, except for 3 in caudecu's manor, and they have been sitting there for at least 5 minutes not filling up.

    1.) Currently, the few players that are actually trying to do dungeons are spread out over 8 lfg tabs. You can't even check all 8 tabs in quick succession without the lfg locking up. I would recommend consolidating that down to a single dungeon tab, similar to raids right now.

    2.) Make grouping easier through a centralized hub. Personally, I would just use the aerodrome, add a single door that can port you to any dungeon, if your in the aerodrome and a member of the party goes in, it prompts you just like raids. When you leave a dungeon, it takes you back to the aerodrome. This would make it easy for groups to do a daily clear (see next point).

    3.) Create some sort of randomized daily system similar to fractals that guides the players towards which dungeons they should do daily. Because fractals are longer than dungeons, I would say more than 3 dungeon paths should be in this daily system. Maybe 5 random paths chosen from all story paths and explorable paths (except for arah p4 and aetherblade path, which should play a role similar to cm's in fractals). Add some sort of nice daily reward which you receive only for completing all 5 of these paths. I would say remove the current 8 path repeatable reward and replace it with this daily system.

    4.) Long term rewards. I would attach a single wallet currency for doing the daily repeatable achievement I outlined above. Maybe 5 tokens for doing the daily achievement outlined above, and an additional 1 token for completing aether path and arah p4 respectively. What should those tokens be used for? I don't know, ascended and infusions is more of a fractal thing. Maybe give it a few rewards, a cosmetic chair, a transform potion, maybe a useful gizmo that everyone would want to keep in an account wide inventory slot, Like I said, ascended is already heavily featured in fractals, but dungeons have a long history of being part of legendary weapons. So how about a daily purchasable mystic clover that uses these tokens (balanced appropriately)?

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019
    I would wish to keep the old dungeons and bosses, but would like to challenge mode for extra rewards.

    What I want for Dungeons is a "Vanquisher Mode", similar to the Explorable area Vanquisher from GW1.

    • No story, only events and enemies. It'd be basically a combat-based map completion.
    • All events from story and explorable paths would be recreated or replicated. Generic enemies would be left as they are, named enemies from story would be replaced with similar looking generic enemies with a different model (e.g.: Kudu -> Inquest Leader). Those encounters that may spawn in the same spot on different paths would be moved to different locations, but both would be recreated.
    • All doors would be open or would get opened by defeating a boss or challenge rooms, allowing players to freely explore the entirety of the dungeon.
    • There would be secret events and spawns that are triggered with hidden methods like using emotes at certain points, using hidden objects, placing bundles on certain spots, and reaching faraway areas.
    • Unfinished jumping puzzles would be finished, completing them would count as hidden events. Dungeons with no jumping puzzles would get at least 1.
    • Areas with no enemies would get simple events or enemy spawns. There would be no large empty areas, the dungeon would feel like crawling with activity.

    Rewards would be based on how many enemies and events are cleared, and they would be Monthly or Quarterly.

    • Copper: Defeat all enemies and complete all events that are a repeat of story and explorable events.
    • Silver: Do other bonus events outside story and explorable paths.
    • Gold: Also find all secret events and defeat every single enemy.
    • Platinum bonus: Get gold under a certain time.

    Vanquishers could also appear in a leaderboad similar to Adventure leaderboards.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    It's inaccurate to claim that dungeons "need" better rewards.

    if they had better gold per hour, people would do them.

    If chatting in /squad had better gold per hour, people would do that more often, too.
    Dungeons have good gold per hour, just not the best in the game. They don't need it.

    And regardless, lots of people run dungeons. It's not as much as in the old days because (a) dungeons are no longer the only always-available farm in the game (as they were early on), (b) they are no longer the top gold producer (as they once were), (c) there are about 20 more maps than there used to be, increasing the competition for attention, (d) the rewards exclusive to dungeons are no longer exclusive (whereas those rewards remain exclusive in other areas), (e) as time goes on, more veterans have unlocked all the rewards/AP from dungeons, but not from other sources, and more.

    Change any of that and dungeons would be run more often.

    The thing is: dungeon rewards being "more attractive to more people" isn't inherently beneficial to the game. In fact, without fixing the actual bugs, it might be a bad thing for the game, because people would be crankier about it.


    It's inaccurate to say that dungeons have poor rewards or even worse rewards than ever. Dungeons are less competitive for a variety of reasons, most of them good for the game.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    I rather see them fix old bugs that really can stall progression running them. However not as a priority. They should fix stalling open world events first (and honestly this should be a priority as you stumble upon these reports as of late). If I would like to see any change to dungeons it would be the possibility to solo them (like pof or hot story). Gives you something to do when you have no group for fractals yet still able to play instanced dungeon like content. I know some ppl can solo some paths but for a casual player its almost impossible. I know some still don't find them challenging enough atm but we have fractals and raids where the mechanics force you to group up and the real hardcore go raids. And I assume they can still scale up mobs/bosses to amount of players inside (if they don't already).

  • starhunter.6015starhunter.6015 Member ✭✭✭

    *Fix the rewards for the old dungeons.
    *add new collections that spread across them all.
    *Maybe add new path or two per dungeon adding more story/lore to them.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    I like AC, COF, TA55 as is, That a perfect instance to go whit non skilled low lv guild members, or make chill wiht normal party.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    ok lol have fun with that.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    I would honestly prefer a sort of "generation two dungeons".

    But i guess new and updated old dungeons are second best thing

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    Of all the people saying the rewards need to be fixed, do you actually know what the gold per hour was for the typical player versus what it is now?

    Or are you just saying that the rewards need to be better because you heard from someone else that they needed to be?

    Here's what I found in a quick search: https://i.imgur.com/xn8m74f.png

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    Fractals were introduced November 2012, 3 months after release and long before dungeons prime time.
    Dungeons rewards were never better as of now even better than during that dungeon farm time which people consider their prime.

    Dungeons are dead. It's five years and people still can't get over it. They won't ever get changed and we won't see new dungeons. Just get over it already. You had 5 years.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    I'am very like that dungeons don't have any changes like fractals. Who want challenge always can take 4 pugs and go TA80 or Arah

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    Fractals were introduced November 2012, 3 months after release and long before dungeons prime time.
    Dungeons rewards were never better as of now even better than during that dungeon farm time which people consider their prime.

    Dungeons are dead. It's five years and people still can't get over it. They won't ever get changed and we won't see new dungeons. Just get over it already. You had 5 years.

    I meant before the fractal revamp. regardless of what was better, people did dungeons cuz they thought the rewards were good. yeah its a good idea for old content to simply get abandoned, sounds like resources put to good use.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • No one is saying it would be bad for the game if dungeons were modernized. Rather, people are saying it's better for the game to look elsewhere.


    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I meant before the fractal revamp. regardless of what was better, people did dungeons cuz they thought the rewards were good.

    Sure, the rewards used to be the best in the game. You seem to keep forgetting that AB multiloot, Istan, Silverwastes and other farms compete for faceroll farming spots, that there are lots and lots of things to do in the game, whereas before HoT, things were much more confined for L80s.

    yeah its a good idea for old content to simply get abandoned,

    It isn't abandoned; it's just not as popular as before. People still do dungeons, just not as many people nor as often.

    sounds like resources put to good use.

    You seem to be ignoring the devs who have said this is, in fact, resources being put to good use. Dungeons were setup in a way that makes them challenging to fix, update, and overhaul. Even if there is value in adjusting dungeons, that same effort is of greater value directed elsewhere.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Fractals are dungeons, built with better authoring tools that make them easier to update, troubleshoot. The only way that it would be worth it for ANet to return to old dungeons is to throw out the existing ones and replace them, using the new tools. And if they take the time to start from scratch, there's no guarantee that we'd see anything that we like about the originals (we might see new things we like; it just wouldn't be worth it to start over to make near-identical copies).

    Developers have written plenty of times about the how & why, including the following:

    @Benjamin Arnold.3457 wrote in the old forums
    It’s not like we want to leave the bugs in, its just that they were built a long time ago with different tools, and fixing them requires a lot of developer time. Time that could be spent on making new fractals and such. Any time I spend fixing dungeon bugs is completely voluntary, and is probably going to be done on weekends.

    writing on reddit (emphasis in original)

    • Fixing a fractal/raids bug - 5-30 minutes.
    • Fixing a dungeons bug - Literally an entire day.

    tl;dr ANet is not going to go back to old dungeons
    (and if they do, @Ayrilana.1396 warned you to be careful what you wish for)

    Benjamin wrote what you quoeted in August 2017. Less than one month before PoF. It is understandable that at that moment ANet had no resources to assign for dungeons. Then they steadily increased the number of developers but still no resources to dungeons. We know now why. They worked to projects more important than GW2. What I don't understand now is why they don't have resources to assign to the dungeons? How many bugs we can have in dungeons? 100? 200? With 1 team of 10 developers the bugs in dungeons can be fixed in 2-3 weeks. Maybe a month. Maybe Anet still has some other non-public advertised projects?

    The comparation between dungeons and fractals is not something to create sympathy: I cannot be sympathetic with someone who literately tell us that: I don't do this because is too hard and it is too much work involved.

    This attitude was very well suited for the period when ANet wasted resources working on other projects. That 5-30 minutes (per week I think I did not see bugs solved faster than that) were perfect for creating the illusion of work.

    Conclusion: I have absolutely no consideration for someone who has even the ..... lack of tact to tell me that "I don't do this part of my work because it is too hard and takes too much effort. Instead, I will do something requiring 5 minutes of effort."

    The bad thing is that this attitude is tolerated by ANet. I started to think that it is because ANet does not care anymore of GW2 and it sees it as a burden, preventing them to work on other more profitable projects.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    Benjamin wrote what you quoeted in August 2017. Less than one month before PoF. It is understandable that at that moment ANet had no resources to assign for dungeons. Then they steadily increased the number of developers but still no resources to dungeons. We know now why. They worked to projects more important than GW2. What I don't understand now is why they don't have resources to assign to the dungeons? How many bugs we can have in dungeons? 100? 200? With 1 team of 10 developers the bugs in dungeons can be fixed in 2-3 weeks. Maybe a month. Maybe Anet still has some other non-public advertised projects?

    The comparation between dungeons and fractals is not something to create sympathy: I cannot be sympathetic with someone who literately tell us that: I don't do this because is too hard and it is too much work involved.

    This attitude was very well suited for the period when ANet wasted resources working on other projects. That 5-30 minutes (per week I think I did not see bugs solved faster than that) were perfect for creating the illusion of work.

    Conclusion: I have absolutely no consideration for someone who has even the ..... lack of tact to tell me that "I don't do this part of my work because it is too hard and takes too much effort. Instead, I will do something requiring 5 minutes of effort."

    The bad thing is that this attitude is tolerated by ANet. I started to think that it is because ANet does not care anymore of GW2 and it sees it as a burden, preventing them to work on other more profitable projects.

    You have realized that they stopped going for other projects besides GW2, right? I still doubt that even with the main focus on GW2 the company will turn backwards to dungeons. Back in the days they had a dungeon development team and as far as I know almost every dev isn't working any longer for Anet. Most of them were "gone" some months after game release. So, it's more than likely that the devs would have to work through an endlessly annoying mountain of spaghetti code. Instead they are doing the right things: Focus on new stuff.
    Let's be honest most of the bugs aren't game or rather "dungeon" breaking. Yeah, it can happen that NPCs are stopping and progress isn't working so you have to restart but that's not a common issue. The last times I played a round of dungeons nothing bugged out and we were rushing everything. If you take it calm and make your way through the dungeon step by step as intended the probability of getting an annoying bug is almost 0% or at least infinitesimal small.

    I can understand that some players - not a big majority tbh since they were still niche content before HoT - want some "new" dungeons as fractals almost have no lore and if so it's just tedious to wait for NPCs to get their skritt done. On the other hand we have a story part every three months which is like a dungeon but way easier and on the other hand fractals for the more challenging content. I can't really imagine that dungeons like the old ones are fitting in their way of philosophy. Sure, you can add them but at what cost? How many players are replaying them? How to make them attractive while you have very good rewards from fractals, open world farming and decent weekly raid loot. The only way they could make everything in this game enjoyable would be a PvE reward track as we have for WvW & PvP. By the way a thing that was favoured from a lot of players in the past. But even now we don't have that and I doubt it's coming any time soon so the reward balancing would be an additional problem for Anet to consider.
    I'd rather look forward and try to enjoy new stuff when it's coming.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    Benjamin wrote what you quoeted in August 2017.

    It's been repeated numerous times since fractals were introduced in the game; I just picked one of many quotes because I had it handy.

    It is understandable that at that moment ANet had no resources to assign for dungeons.

    On the contrary, they have the resources; they've decided that working on dungeons is not the best use of their time.

    They worked to projects more important than GW2.

    If not working on the unnamed and now-canceled projects, those devs would not have been working at ANet at all; they wouldn't have been allocated to have 30% more staff on just GW2.

    What I don't understand now is why they don't have resources to assign to the dungeons?

    They are choosing not to.

    How many bugs we can have in dungeons? 100? 200? With 1 team of 10 developers the bugs in dungeons can be fixed in 2-3 weeks. Maybe a month.

    Let's say it's 200 bugs we really want addressed. Using the naive assumption that each takes the same to fix would be... 200 staff days of time. 10 developers would need 20 days, i.e. under a month.
    However, in that same amount of time, those same devs could fix 2000 bugs, in fractals, in new maps, anywhere. And there are always things to fix.

    Maybe Anet still has some other non-public advertised projects?

    Irrelevant. If there are staff not working on GW2, then canceling such a project won't mean they become available to GW2.

    The comparation between dungeons and fractals is not something to create sympathy: I cannot be sympathetic with someone who literately tell us that: I don't do this because is too hard and it is too much work involved.

    Good thing no one is saying that.

    Conclusion: I have absolutely no consideration for someone who has even the ..... lack of tact to tell me that "I don't do this part of my work because it is too hard and takes too much effort. Instead, I will do something requiring 5 minutes of effort."

    In fact, ANet Ben is extremely hard working. He went out of his way to tackle bugs that have plagued us in areas unrelated to his current duties, simply because he couldn't stand to see them. This is not someone who shies away from things that are "too much work" or "too hard."
    The point he is making is that he can fix 8 fractal bugs in the same time he fixes just one dungeon bug (all else being equal, which, of course, they aren't really). So it's better for the game to work on fractal issues; it has absolutely no impact on his workload.

    I started to think that it is because ANet does not care anymore of GW2 and it sees it as a burden, preventing them to work on other more profitable projects.

    They only have the one project; the devs working on GW2 even before the layoffs only worked on the one project.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    You have realized that they stopped going for other projects besides GW2, right? I still doubt that even with the main focus on GW2 the company will turn backwards to dungeons. Back in the days they had a dungeon development team and as far as I know almost every dev isn't working any longer for Anet. Most of them were "gone" some months after game release. So, it's more than likely that the devs would have to work through an endlessly annoying mountain of spaghetti code. Instead they are doing the right things: Focus on new stuff.

    This is what they say. I heard so many "wrong statements" (to not use a much uglier word) from ANet in the past that I have no confidence anymore in what they states. For example - they focus on the game. The first thing I can think is that as a result of this focus the last LS episode is delayed with almost 2 months from the initial promisse (2 months cadence). That means focus on content? It seems more than "it is too hard, let's take a break, we already worked 30 minutes today".

    Let's be honest most of the bugs aren't game or rather "dungeon" breaking. Yeah, it can happen that NPCs are stopping and progress isn't working so you have to restart but that's not a common issue. The last times I played a round of dungeons nothing bugged out and we were rushing everything. If you take it calm and make your way through the dungeon step by step as intended the probability of getting an annoying bug is almost 0% or at least infinitesimal small.

    I completely agree with you here =). Not the bugs are the reason the dungeons are not played today as much as in the past. Maybe the rewards? Something to atract players again into dungeons? ANet stated the intention to de-incentivize the dungeons and to make them less attractive for players. It worked perfectly (as all the nerfs they performed). But with so many players asking for a resurrection of the dungeons, it is not the time to change something? Maybe the rewards? This is not something as demanding as repairing tons of old code. This is something they can do in few days, even in 30 minutes per day.

    I can understand that players want "new" dungeon as fractals almost have no lore and if so it's just tedious to wait for NPCs to get their skritt done. On the other hand we have a story part every three months which is like a dungeon but way easier and on the other hand fractals for the more challenging content. I can't really imagine that dungeons like the old ones are fitting in their way of philosophy. Sure, you can add them but at what cost? How many players are replaying them? How to make them attractive while you have very good rewards from fractals, open world farming and decent weekly raid loot. The only way they could make everything in this game enjoyable would be a PvE reward track as we have for WvW & PvP. By the way a thing that was favoured from a lot of players in the past. But even now we don't have that and I doubt it's coming any time soon so the reward balancing would be an additional problem for Anet to consider.
    I'd rather look forward and try to enjoy new stuff when it's coming.

    Well, the dungeons were played by many. The raid community is not as large as the former dungeon community. Also, the fractals - HM. I don't know how large is the community of the players doing fractals daily. And for good rewards you need the CM. Again, I don't know how large is the fraction of the players doing daily CM.

    BTW - the open world farming has been nerfed. Directly - by reducing the rewards, and indirectly by making MF almost useless.

    I will try to answer your question How many players are replaying them (the dungeons) with a hypothetical example. Imagine the rewards from fractals reduced to almost nothing. Add to this a statement that the fractals have no more support from the Company developers. And add to this almost 4 years of nothing new added.

    Then ask yourself: How many players are replaying them - but this time pointing to fractals.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    I like old style 'crawlers' dungeons in this game but I guess I'm too old now.
    What they could do is chop of explorable mods and add something modern?
    Something that new, that doesn't make new player pill their hairs off when attempting to clear those on low level.
    Maybe then leveling in game won't be so boring.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    This is what they say. I heard so many "wrong statements" (to not use a much uglier word) from ANet in the past that I have no confidence anymore in what they states. For example - they focus on the game. The first thing I can think is that as a result of this focus the last LS episode is delayed with almost 2 months from the initial promisse (2 months cadence). That means focus on content? It seems more than "it is too hard, let's take a break, we already worked 30 minutes today".

    I've been saying this a lot in the past but you know we can't change anything. It's their philosophy, it's their development speed and their game. Also, people favouring challenging content like raids, fractals and even dungeons are the tiny minority of this game. We have to consider and respect that.
    Tyi the cadence was 2-3 months and more 3 months than 2, so they just delayed the next one for 4 more weeks. I think that is totally acceptable as long as they don't hand out buggy stuff or thins like Domain of Kourna.

    I completely agree with you here =). Not the bugs are the reason the dungeons are not played today as much as in the past. Maybe the rewards? Something to atract players again into dungeons? ANet stated the intention to de-incentivize the dungeons and to make them less attractive for players. It worked perfectly (as all the nerfs they performed). But with so many players asking for a resurrection of the dungeons, it is not the time to change something? Maybe the rewards? This is not something as demanding as repairing tons of old code. This is something they can do in few days, even in 30 minutes per day.

    It was said: The rewards are fine. You would have to increase them incredibly to bring people into them again and that would harm every other content. It's not the rewards dungeons are abandoned. It's boredom. Veterans like me farmed them daily in the past - every - fricking - day. From time to time I head into them again because friends are asking or to help beginners or just because I'm bored but in no way I would like to have them as a more regular thing. They are fine like they are now.

    Well, the dungeons were played by many. The raid community is not as large as the former dungeon community. Also, the fractals - HM. I don't know how large is the community of the players doing fractals daily. And for good rewards you need the CM. Again, I don't know how large is the fraction of the players doing daily CM.

    Dungeons weren't played by many. A bit more than people do fractals today maybe but that was only because it was the only instanced content, a little bit harder than open world but easier than fracs, were rewarding and yeah the only instanced thing you could do in this game besides fractals. Have a look into the T4 tab over the day it's filled and you'll always find a group if you want. Raiding is also alive.
    And that we had a loss of players in total is the usual thing for an MMO which is getting older and older while new stuff left and right is flooding the market.

    BTW - the open world farming has been nerfed. Directly - by reducing the rewards, and indirectly by making MF almost useless.

    It's still better than running fracs or raids.

    I will try to answer your question How many players are replaying them (the dungeons) with a hypothetical example. Imagine the rewards from fractals reduced to almost nothing. Add to this a statement that the fractals have no more support from the Company developers. And add to this almost 4 years of nothing new added.

    Then ask yourself: How many players are replaying them - but this time pointing to fractals.

    Of course, every content needs their rewards but it's just plain wrong that dungeons are not rewarding. They are old and outdated. That's a key point. Yes, everybody would run them if you get 10g per path but that would be the same for PvP and WvW. Hand out a 10g per PvP game or capture a tower/fortress in WvW everybody would go there for farming.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    If ANet returns to dungeons I would like to see:

    • Dungeons to be easy enough that a group of 5 brand new players that is very undergeared can complete the dungeon with no difficulty.
    • A non-80 gear version of the exotic armor/weapon that players can buy.
    • A non-newb version which is just the dungeon is currently.
    • 2 more dungeons for level 10 and level 20. These two dungeons are there to teach players basic tutorials such as breakbars and dodging stuff and to give dungeons for level 10 and level 20.

    The purpose is that dungeons be repurposed into a leveling group content.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    If ANet returns to dungeons I would like to see:

    • Dungeons to be easy enough that a group of 5 brand new players that is very undergeared can complete the dungeon with no difficulty.
    • A non-80 gear version of the exotic armor/weapon that players can buy.
    • A non-newb version which is just the dungeon is currently.
    • 2 more dungeons for level 10 and level 20. These two dungeons are there to teach players basic tutorials such as breakbars and dodging stuff and to give dungeons for level 10 and level 20.

    The purpose is that dungeons be repurposed into a leveling group content.

    Every dungeon now have that tho all but the lvl10 and 20 dungeons ofcourse. (oh been so long so forgot they dident sell weapons for lowbies)

    The armor level 35,45,55,65,75 and even 80 got a rare set for explorable dungeon currency level and all of them got level 80 exotic armor/weapons just that newbies can have a harder time to find the merchant then in the old days where we had 8 of them right were you entered lions arch.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon_Merchant
    5 none 80 can clear the dungeons at level it will be hard ofcourse.
    The first statment is basicly asking them to do personal story but as 5 man recommended why not just group up for your story steps and treat all of them as dungeons with no difficulty?

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    The armor level 35,45,55,65,75 and even 80 got a rare set for explorable dungeon currency level and all of them got level 80 exotic armor/weapons just that newbies can have a harder time to find the merchant then in the old days where we had 8 of them right were you entered lions arch.

    The skins have the same skin as common loot drops.

    I am asking for those weapons and armor use the same skin as the level 80.

    The first statment is basicly asking them to do personal story but as 5 man recommended why not just group up for your story steps and treat all of them as dungeons with no difficulty?

    Personal Story is not repeatable.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    The armor level 35,45,55,65,75 and even 80 got a rare set for explorable dungeon currency level and all of them got level 80 exotic armor/weapons just that newbies can have a harder time to find the merchant then in the old days where we had 8 of them right were you entered lions arch.

    The skins have the same skin as common loot drops.

    I am asking for those weapons and armor use the same skin as the level 80.

    The first statment is basicly asking them to do personal story but as 5 man recommended why not just group up for your story steps and treat all of them as dungeons with no difficulty?

    Personal Story is not repeatable.

    Buying armor and weapons with dungeon currency at a level below 80 would be a waste since players would gain levels so quickly from dungeons or just in general.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Buying armor and weapons with dungeon currency at a level below 80 would be a waste since players would gain levels so quickly from dungeons or just in general.

    On the otherhand, my leveling experience had been looking like the same ugly armor from 1-79 because loot drops aren't varied. This would help me look different as I level up.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    Then buy new armor with skins that you’d enjoy. It doesn’t need to be the same level as you since you can use the wardrobe to put them on your current armor.

    In any case, it costs something like 1600 dungeon currency for an armor set. I can’t really remember although 1280 is sounding familiar too. Anyway, is spending that much on armor only for it to soon become obsolete worth it? Plus, exotic armor only starts at level 60 or so.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Because of what they could have done in its place. Look at those two cancelled side projects where those entire teams could have instead focused on adding more content to the game.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Then buy new armor with skins that you’d enjoy. It doesn’t need to be the same level as you since you can use the wardrobe to put them on your current armor.

    In any case, it costs something like 1600 dungeon currency for an armor set. I can’t really remember although 1280 is sounding familiar too. Anyway, is spending that much on armor only for it to soon become obsolete worth it? Plus, exotic armor only starts at level 60 or so.

    Its 210 Dungeon currency for the non-80 set.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭
    I would want see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses, but no challenge mode is needed (since we have fractals).

    Rather than a complete remake, i would like them to add new things that connect to the Living World release while give us the option to play vanilla dungeon version, of course bug fixes are a must

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Then buy new armor with skins that you’d enjoy. It doesn’t need to be the same level as you since you can use the wardrobe to put them on your current armor.

    In any case, it costs something like 1600 dungeon currency for an armor set. I can’t really remember although 1280 is sounding familiar too. Anyway, is spending that much on armor only for it to soon become obsolete worth it? Plus, exotic armor only starts at level 60 or so.

    Its 210 Dungeon currency for the non-80 set.

    Yes but you stated above that you wanted those lower level gear to have the same skins as the level 80 set. Either you pay the level 80 cost for the skins or you don’t get them.

    Your post about wanting the sub-80 sets to share the same skin as the level 80 set:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    The armor level 35,45,55,65,75 and even 80 got a rare set for explorable dungeon currency level and all of them got level 80 exotic armor/weapons just that newbies can have a harder time to find the merchant then in the old days where we had 8 of them right were you entered lions arch.

    The skins have the same skin as common loot drops.

    I am asking for those weapons and armor use the same skin as the level 80.

    Which came about from this post:

    @runeblade.7514 said:
    If ANet returns to dungeons I would like to see:

    • Dungeons to be easy enough that a group of 5 brand new players that is very undergeared can complete the dungeon with no difficulty.
    • A non-80 gear version of the exotic armor/weapon that players can buy.
    • A non-newb version which is just the dungeon is currently.
    • 2 more dungeons for level 10 and level 20. These two dungeons are there to teach players basic tutorials such as breakbars and dodging stuff and to give dungeons for level 10 and level 20.

    The purpose is that dungeons be repurposed into a leveling group content.

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes but you stated above that you wanted those lower level gear to have the same skins as the level 80 set. Either you pay the level 80 cost for the skins or you don’t get them.

    I would rather ANet could also make these skins not be able to be stored in the wardrobe to justify the lower cost. Meaning, you have to buy the exotic skins if you want to transmute it in your armor.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    I would rather see new 3 or 5 man dungeons with easy and hard modes that are tied to story along side raids or instead of them ( let's be honest, waiting 9 months for 2-3 bosses is a joke ). And instead of wasting time and money on making new map each episode I would rather see some repeatable content. Leave current dungeons as they are. Adjusting them to current state of the game is not worth the effort. Assuming they are capable of recreating them, since most of the people who made them in wonderful archaic game engine are long gone.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Because of what they could have done in its place. Look at those two cancelled side projects where those entire teams could have instead focused on adding more content to the game.

    But updated/new dungeon is that "what they could've done". Dungeones are the backbone of PvE in any MMO game. Saying that they should be doing something else instead of them makes no sense if they are broken/abandoned. Other games have no problems doing both dungeons and these hypothetical other things. This game is the odd one out.

    Dungeons are the content they could've been doing and the game would be better off in the long run.

    Also, these teams were doing on other non-GW2 projects. Those two teams could've contributed to anything GW2 related, and that also includes dungeons

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    Yes but you stated above that you wanted those lower level gear to have the same skins as the level 80 set. Either you pay the level 80 cost for the skins or you don’t get them.

    I would rather ANet could also make these skins not be able to be stored in the wardrobe to justify the lower cost. Meaning, you have to buy the exotic skins if you want to transmute it in your armor.

    Which will never happen.

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Because of what they could have done in its place. Look at those two cancelled side projects where those entire teams could have instead focused on adding more content to the game.

    But updated/new dungeon is that "what they could've done". Dungeones are the backbone of PvE in any MMO game. Saying that they should be doing something else instead of them makes no sense if they are broken/abandoned. Other games have no problems doing both dungeons and these hypothetical other things. This game is the odd one out.

    Dungeons are the content they could've been doing and the game would be better off in the long run.

    Also, these teams were doing on other non-GW2 projects. Those two teams could've contributed to anything GW2 related, and that also includes dungeons

    There are fractals which take that role.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @runeblade.7514 said:

    Yes but you stated above that you wanted those lower level gear to have the same skins as the level 80 set. Either you pay the level 80 cost for the skins or you don’t get them.

    I would rather ANet could also make these skins not be able to be stored in the wardrobe to justify the lower cost. Meaning, you have to buy the exotic skins if you want to transmute it in your armor.

    Which will never happen.

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Because of what they could have done in its place. Look at those two cancelled side projects where those entire teams could have instead focused on adding more content to the game.

    But updated/new dungeon is that "what they could've done". Dungeones are the backbone of PvE in any MMO game. Saying that they should be doing something else instead of them makes no sense if they are broken/abandoned. Other games have no problems doing both dungeons and these hypothetical other things. This game is the odd one out.

    Dungeons are the content they could've been doing and the game would be better off in the long run.

    Also, these teams were doing on other non-GW2 projects. Those two teams could've contributed to anything GW2 related, and that also includes dungeons

    There are fractals which take that role.

    As far as I understand fractals tier1 can be done on lv 70+. It's way too long for leveling to get into instanced content.
    Also this is the only game where trash mobs in leveling dungeons are elits.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • @phs.6089 said:
    Also this is the only game where

    It's the only game for a lot of things, including...

    • Time spent to get to max level (short, compared to other games)
    • Time spent getting max level gear (exotic: instant, ascended: first set is long)
    • Time spent regaining max level after expansion (0)
    • Time spent regaining max gear after expansion (0) (caveat: doesn't mean it's optimum, but zerker's gear has survived 6+ years without a change)
    • Time required in "dungeons" of any sort to reach max level or get max gear: 0

    The point being: it doesn't make sense to pull one comparison from other games and ignore the context. Yes, it's true that fractals aren't suitable for L30 and it's also true that it doesn't take that much longer to get to L70. The game wasn't designed for dungeons to be a gateway to better gear; it was designed so that dungeons (of both sorts) was something optional that folks could do.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Arimir.5864Arimir.5864 Member ✭✭

    My 2c as a real new player would be:

    I reckon, unless ANet is going to focus a tonne of development in the PvE instanced systems to make it more integrated into leveling, then things should be left as they are. I think we have a pretty good amount of things to do that means more to your game/character/leveling experience than most games. And, we also have an incentive to hit L30 to get into our 1st dungeon.

    Reason I say that is because, GW2 to me is quite different to games like WoW, etc... Shouldn't try fitting it into it's mould (yes, ex wow player here).

    And as far as seeing the dungeons... Week before last, when I hit L30 and did that first dungeon (I been 80 for a bit more than a week now)... I was excited that I could go and find the waypoint to it... and being taught how to queue by someone random (because I didn't know anything then, like Jon Snow)... and then getting through it. It was a positive experience for me, and thus far, it is also a positive experience for a couple of folks who are also new!

    I don't see anything wrong with what we have at the moment - I could be wrong in a few years time!

    °º¤ø,¸ Larsen's Biscuits ¸,ø¤º°
    °º¤ø,¸ Recruiting Now ¸,ø¤º°

  • I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    For those wanting updated mechanics, keep in mind of the newer fractals, the newer TA path, and the remake of AC. That’s what you can expect.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    • add more AoE
    • Quantity -> maxint

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster