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Should Arenanet go back to old dungeons to improve them for the new and old player experience?

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  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    @THE FORGE.7198 its GP/H (gold per hour) actually isnt bad, quit rant . The spreadsheet hasn't been updated since early 2018, but yeah it can be upwards of 30-50g per hour depending on available recipes and tour speed. Especially for people who don't have recipes, rising ecto and mat prices are good for dungeons. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443563530860363788/451915847049543682/xn8m74f.png

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Robban.1256 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    all they need is better rewards. anet nerfed them when fractals came out so people would play fractals. pretty horrible choice imo.

    @THE FORGE.7198 its GP/H (gold per hour) actually isnt bad, quit rant . The spreadsheet hasn't been updated since early 2018, but yeah it can be upwards of 30-50g per hour depending on available recipes and tour speed. Especially for people who don't have recipes, rising ecto and mat prices are good for dungeons. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443563530860363788/451915847049543682/xn8m74f.png

    huh, well if that's accurate I sit corrected.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    They are fine as is, as long as they are playable. The one thing that always annoys the hell out of me is condi immune essential objects. This isnt even about clear speed any more. It just renders a huge set of builds pretty much unusable in some dungeon paths.
    What I would rather like to see instead of a complete rework is new dungeons introduced with expansions. Give us one dungeon per expac release and one dungeon per LW season. This would already warm my PvE-corrupted heart.

  • Woof.8246Woof.8246 Member ✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    I would prefer if Story mode becomes soloable , rather increase the rewards and increase toxicity in dungeosn.

    If that wont happened , then i would prefer :
    Complete 8 randoms dungeosn , and you ''complete'' a random daily fractal .
    If you have done 3/4 daily fractal , then the last one (hardest) will be surely to be unlocked .

    a) The system doesnt alow you to type more than 5 words in LFG , to avoid message like:
    ''Path 2 Bersekers , 80 lvl , 10k achivements only''

    or
    If a low lvl players joins the party , every1 else (exept the noobie) gets ''buff'' icon that explicit say ''dont kick him , or you wont unlocked the Fractal daily and there a random chance to unlocked 2 fractals''

    Or c) If there are only 80 lvl players .... lets gie some instabilities to the bosses

    low budget comedian

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Oh, but does it really have no impact on them? For one, challenge mode usualy means that any potential new cool stuff will end up there, not in the basic mode. It's like the case with PvE legendary armor - the main reason behind resistance to the idea of putting it in a content majority of pve players run is merely due to fact that raids exist. So, raids do have impact on the design of the rest of the game, and they have that impact just by existing.
    And that's even when ignoring the potential content lost because resources that could have been used for it were assigned to challenge mode.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Oh, but does it really have no impact on them? For one, challenge mode usualy means that any potential new cool stuff will end up there, not in the basic mode. It's like the case with PvE legendary armor - the main reason behind resistance to the idea of putting it in a content majority of pve players run is merely due to fact that raids exist. So, raids do have impact on the design of the rest of the game, and they have that impact just by existing.
    And that's even when ignoring the potential content lost because resources that could have been used for it were assigned to challenge mode.

    That is one big hypothetical situation you placed there. Nobody even mentioned rewards and reward system so it seems odd to imply these would be a problem for people who do not do the content anyway.

    Also, nothing is added in the "basic mode" anyway so challenge mode getting new stuff is not having any impact for people who would do standard runs in the first place

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Woof.8246 said:
    I would prefer if Story mode becomes soloable , rather increase the rewards and increase toxicity in dungeosn.

    you can solo them- (heres from TA story 2 years ago )
    Arah solo P2 (2018) =

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only attractive aspect of the Dungeons is that it served to flush out some of the story around Destiny's Edge, parallel to your player's personal story.

    Do I think that's cool? I sure do.

    But say ANET decided to start adding new dungeons/fractals that contained story elements running parallel to the living world story, would that be cool? I think it would be.

    And then you would see a flood of forums posts about players upset that they can't experience all the story content solo, and are forced to group....with other people....in a massively...multiplayer...online role playing game...

    You can't make this stuff up.

    So when you wonder about why we can't have nice things, peruse the forums for a bit, and you'll find your answer.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Oh, but does it really have no impact on them? For one, challenge mode usualy means that any potential new cool stuff will end up there, not in the basic mode. It's like the case with PvE legendary armor - the main reason behind resistance to the idea of putting it in a content majority of pve players run is merely due to fact that raids exist. So, raids do have impact on the design of the rest of the game, and they have that impact just by existing.
    And that's even when ignoring the potential content lost because resources that could have been used for it were assigned to challenge mode.

    That is one big hypothetical situation you placed there. Nobody even mentioned rewards and reward system

    Oh, so you intend to introduce challenge mode whose rewards are the same as normal mode? Good luck then.

    so it seems odd to imply these would be a problem for people who do not do the content anyway.

    If you haven't noticed, Envoy armor is a problem primarily for the people that do not raid. Those that do raid generally see no problem with it (for obvious reasons - it's not a problem to them).

    Also, nothing is added in the "basic mode" anyway so challenge mode getting new stuff is not having any impact for people who would do standard runs in the first place

    The whole basis of this talk is revitalization of dugneons. I'd assume it would require adding stuff to basic mode as well. Also, see above.

    BTW: In general, i'm all for "revitalizing" dungeons and making them more alive. Personally, i always vastly preferred them to fractals. I just don't think that introducing more challenge to them is a good idea - for people that would like that, we already have raids.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Robban.1256 said:

    @Woof.8246 said:
    I would prefer if Story mode becomes soloable , rather increase the rewards and increase toxicity in dungeosn.

    you can solo them- (heres from TA story 2 years ago )
    Arah solo P2 (2018) =

    They likely mean soloable like living story instances. Most dungeons paths can be solo’d unless there’s some mechanic that forces you to have another player such as with CoE. It just requires a greater skill level and/or time.

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    Why is there no option for "just leave dungeons be, they are kitten"?
    In order to fix them, you'd need to redesign them from the ground up. That's not worth it, instead just give some more interesting fractals & raids, or maybe incorporate some dungeon ideas into a fractal.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    I would settle for actual new dungeons. or at least many more fractals, we have 20 now, I wish we had like 50 or so.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coso.9173 said:
    I would settle for actual new dungeons. or at least many more fractals, we have 20 now, I wish we had like 50 or so.

    Based on the recent releases, a new fractal was introduced every 6 months:
    Twilight Oasis - Nov 2017
    Deepstone: June 2018
    Siren's Reef: January 2019

    Given all we know/suspect about ANET and the amount of resources they have to devote to producing content, acknowledging also that ANET needs to introduce new RAID wings as well as fractals, I personally feel 6 months between new fractals is reasonable.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Out of curiosity. Why are some people against challange mode. Something completely facultative.

    Why are some people against something that has no impact on them but might make game enjoyable for others?

    Oh, but does it really have no impact on them? For one, challenge mode usualy means that any potential new cool stuff will end up there, not in the basic mode. It's like the case with PvE legendary armor - the main reason behind resistance to the idea of putting it in a content majority of pve players run is merely due to fact that raids exist. So, raids do have impact on the design of the rest of the game, and they have that impact just by existing.
    And that's even when ignoring the potential content lost because resources that could have been used for it were assigned to challenge mode.

    That is one big hypothetical situation you placed there. Nobody even mentioned rewards and reward system

    Oh, so you intend to introduce challenge mode whose rewards are the same as normal mode? Good luck then.

    so it seems odd to imply these would be a problem for people who do not do the content anyway.

    If you haven't noticed, Envoy armor is a problem primarily for the people that do not raid. Those that do raid generally see no problem with it (for obvious reasons - it's not a problem to them).

    Also, nothing is added in the "basic mode" anyway so challenge mode getting new stuff is not having any impact for people who would do standard runs in the first place

    The whole basis of this talk is revitalization of dugneons. I'd assume it would require adding stuff to basic mode as well. Also, see above.

    BTW: In general, i'm all for "revitalizing" dungeons and making them more alive. Personally, i always vastly preferred them to fractals. I just don't think that introducing more challenge to them is a good idea - for people that would like that, we already have raids.

    So its better to have system that gives nothing to nobody than a system that gives something to someone? Dont really understand why should design philosophy revolve around those who do not do the content, especially since it doesn't change anything for them. There will always be people complaining about something but not all complains are legitimate and not all complains are valid. There is no reason why Anet should pander to people that hold the game back because they dont want to do content.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    So its better to have system that gives nothing to nobody than a system that gives something to someone?

    Irrelevant question, as this is not the choice before us. The choice isn't "do nothing, or do CMs for dungeons". It's "where should we spend X amount of developer resources". That X here remains constant regardless of decision made - spending some of it on dungeon CMs means not spending it on something else. Personally, i'd rather see them spent on normal mode of dungeons than on CMs (if those were the only choices).

    Dont really understand why should design philosophy revolve around those who do not do the content, especially since it doesn't change anything for them.

    Because it does change something - it derives the content they do play of developer resources. Of which, i have to remind you, there is a finite amount.

    There will always be people complaining about something but not all complains are legitimate and not all complains are valid.

    True. Why do you think that your complains are more legitimate and valid than complains of others, though?

    There is no reason why Anet should pander to people that hold the game back because they dont want to do content.

    Ah, but they do want to do content. Different content than you, that is.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    I would absolutely love for them to go through an completely overhauled dungeons, however I’m not expecting this to happen.

    Ideally I’d like to see dungeons be changed to be solo content that can scale up to 5 players, so they have their own niche in the whole end game thing, but I’m honestly not expecting them to even acknowledge dungeons are still content.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    How the original dungeons were made and how the fractal instances are made are completely different. Dunegons are very much legacy content.

    Updating dungeons as they are would be a monumental task and it would just as likely be easier for them to completely rebuild them from the ground up. Which as you can imagine would take a considerable amount of time and resources. Also not much would change.

    They could add mechanics or make the bosses less cheesable, but they'd essentially be what they are now. The same content you've already played since launch. You'd get bored of it after the second time and probably complain it's too hard now and it's been ruined because they fixed a skip or something.

    Let sleeping dogs lay. It's pretty good for what it is.

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Robban.1256 said:

    @Woof.8246 said:
    I would prefer if Story mode becomes soloable , rather increase the rewards and increase toxicity in dungeosn.

    you can solo them- (heres from TA story 2 years ago )
    Arah solo P2 (2018) =

    They likely mean soloable like living story instances. Most dungeons paths can be solo’d unless there’s some mechanic that forces you to have another player such as with CoE. It just requires a greater skill level and/or time.

    Well ppl want more difficult content then story, but they dont try or put the efford to either try raids (cms) /fractal CM's or solo/duo dungeons.

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    • remake of old dungeons, ...introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.
    • remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses,
    • keep the old dungeons ... [with] challenge mode for extra rewards.
    • fix.. the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    My vote: option 5: none of above. Invest the time into fractals or anything else that gains greater benefit from the same effort. Don't worry about bugs unless they prevent most people from completing the dungeon or can be exploited.

    I was also looking for option 5, wholeheartedly gets my vote. I like dungeons exactly the way they are: still in the game, but absolutely untouched by the dev team. Take your fractals and be satisfied.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    But updated/new dungeon is that "what they could've done". Dungeones are the backbone of PvE in any MMO game. Saying that they should be doing something else instead of them makes no sense if they are broken/abandoned. Other games have no problems doing both dungeons and these hypothetical other things. This game is the odd one out.

    Dungeons are the content they could've been doing and the game would be better off in the long run.

    Also, these teams were doing on other non-GW2 projects. Those two teams could've contributed to anything GW2 related, and that also includes dungeons

    Why, why is it so hard to understand that it's not about "dungeons" or "insert content name here" being central to what most of us consider to a proper MMO experience. The devs (and others in this thread) have pointed out that dungeons are an artifact of old code/tools, that it's a manpower allocation issue. The amount of work it would take to rework dungeons apparently takes away too much from the rest of the game, and I'm inclined to believe that as well. Yes, there might be some people returning to GW2 after being pulled from other projects. That still probably doesn't make dungeons worth the effort of renovating, there are myriad other issues to deal with instead of resurrecting old content they've already replaced.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2019
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    But updated/new dungeon is that "what they could've done". Dungeones are the backbone of PvE in any MMO game. Saying that they should be doing something else instead of them makes no sense if they are broken/abandoned. Other games have no problems doing both dungeons and these hypothetical other things. This game is the odd one out.

    Dungeons are the content they could've been doing and the game would be better off in the long run.

    Also, these teams were doing on other non-GW2 projects. Those two teams could've contributed to anything GW2 related, and that also includes dungeons

    Why, why is it so hard to understand that it's not about "dungeons" or "insert content name here" being central to what most of us consider to a proper MMO experience. The devs (and others in this thread) have pointed out that dungeons are an artifact of old code/tools, that it's a manpower allocation issue. The amount of work it would take to rework dungeons apparently takes away too much from the rest of the game, and I'm inclined to believe that as well. Yes, there might be some people returning to GW2 after being pulled from other projects. That still probably doesn't make dungeons worth the effort of renovating, there are myriad other issues to deal with instead of resurrecting old content they've already replaced.

    I assume most ppl in this thread know that developers arent working on dungeons due to different developer tool system that was used for dungeons. Just because i know why they aren't working on them doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion or preference that goes against it. Knowing why something isn't happening doesn't mean I have to personally agree with the status of the thing in question. You do know it is possible to have an opinion on something even though you are aware that due to technical difficulties it will most likely never happen?

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    So its better to have system that gives nothing to nobody than a system that gives something to someone?

    Irrelevant question, as this is not the choice before us. The choice isn't "do nothing, or do CMs for dungeons". It's "where should we spend X amount of developer resources". That X here remains constant regardless of decision made - spending some of it on dungeon CMs means not spending it on something else. Personally, i'd rather see them spent on normal mode of dungeons than on CMs (if those were the only choices).

    Not really what I was talking about. I was talking about game modes and rewards available to players. In that regard it is "give nothing or give something" Also, you are taking issue of company resources to extremes just to prove a point. It is possible that multiple questions and choices are present in the same situation. Not sure how did you reach a conclusion that choice of allocations of resource must excludes choice of development of content. The two can go hand in hand perfectly

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Because it does change something - it derives the content they do play of developer resources. Of which, i have to remind you, there is a finite amount.

    As does every other thing in the game. Everything they do takes resources away from a possible alternative they could be doing. Every piece of content that they do means that a certain other hypothetical content won't be done. So what? That's normal.
    It's okay to say "I would rather have them use their resources for something else" but that in itself is not an argument for or against certain type of content. It's a statement of preference.

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    True. Why do you think that your complains are more legitimate and valid than complains of others, though?

    You should re-read what I wrote. I never raised a complaint against any development idea or any possible alternative. Just because my opinions differ from yours doesn't mean I am presenting a complain. (You gave an example of people complaining about gear, which I said isn't necessarily a legitimate complain)

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Ah, but they do want to do content. Different content than you, that is.

    There is bunch of different content in this game and its impossible that its all developed equally at the same time. Just because a person doesn't do content X doesn't mean that content X shouldn't be developed. Should maybe PvErs determine content creation of PvP and vice-versa? Should people that are into fashion wars give their two cents if creation of future fractals maybe takes away from the content that they do? Clearly no.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses, but no challenge mode is needed (since we have fractals).

    Id rather them just go in and expand on them; Maybe something happens during the living world and causes some commotion in one. For example "A leyline has broken into The citadel of fire and awoken a titan!" And now we have a reason to go in there; And fight it for a in world instance. This would also come with a comprehensive zone rework as they have said that going forward; They might revisit old maps and breath new life into them rather than just adding new ones as they have been.

    A return to arah, perhaps with the idea of purifying one of the dragon minions we bring down would be sick as hell considering its a plot thread from 2012 that we have never revisited. The ritual worked; And heck we got a friendly risen chicken out of it too, I feel like it would be a cool throw back for us to go in there maybe with a destroyer and help it be purified to see if it can work. That way we can make more like aueren whom are on our side to take the place of their corrupted kin; This would make for a great dungeon as fractals are used to tell of things in the past. This could be a part of the story and could even be something that has some paths for us to further explore; Maybe going deeper into arah and heck even seeing Zaithans body.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2019
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    I just picked the last option but I don't care about old bugs being fixed.
    I'm a veteran player as well, but Dungeons are and will always be an old and discarded content. From my part, I don't want any single resource (as little as it may be) spent on them, even to fix old bugs. I prefer them to be spent entirely on new contents: fractals, LSs, raids and open world maps.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    In all honesty I don’t think dungeons need to be reworked. I think they need to make new dungeons. Since fractals are the so called “new dungeons”. Then they need to make much more fractals. And more paths on fractals. That’s truly my only thing that I have against. Idc about instabilities but I just want more. What happens when there is actually 25 fractals? Do we stop there? Are we getting another tier? Can we get 10 man fractals?

    Sorry for getting off topic. But let’s say Anet if actually is going to put some time into developing dungeons like they use to. I would want new. So each new episode of living world would add a dungeon into that map. And a few paths. That would truly be more acceptable to me.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    Would be interesting to see what they might be able to come up with if they were to complete overhaul them all.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

    see my notes above

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would like to hero/hench the dungeons. I like to take the time and explore, while most other players usually want to rush to the rewards.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

    As Robban mentioned in passing earlier, dungeons are mostly soloable if you're up for a challenge. There are a few places that have group mechanics that require more than one person, but for the most part if you can control the combat, you can solo a dungeon.

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    You do know it is possible to have an opinion on something even though you are aware that due to technical difficulties it will most likely never happen?

    Who said it's not possible to have an opinion? Sure, you can have any opinion you want, but there is such a thing as an ill-founded opinion. The opinion I objected to essentially stated that every other mmo can do dungeons without technical tradeoffs, so automatically GW2 should too. That's an opinion, sure, but a logically and objectively poor one, and I believe we have the right to treat it as such.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    Dungeons are probably the first look a player gets into GW2 instanced content. The average player is probably going to be scared of fractals (because of the big intimidating level 80 tag), and seek easier content to wet their feet (if they haven't already gotten bored of exploration and tried some dungeons already). It's also a great place for newbies to meet more seasoned players, to joke around and maybe swap advice or strategies.

    Try doing that in your local T1/T2 fractal group. This might be personal experience, but everyone feels so... mechanical...

    I don't think Dungeons need to be more challenging, but I do feel they could be expanded upon to help newbies get a feel for the game (and possibly redo/revamp the story while they're at it).

  • Shivan.9438Shivan.9438 Member ✭✭
    I would want see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses, but no challenge mode is needed (since we have fractals).

    Dungeons need to be remade on every level.

    • Strategy and Mechanics. - Run, run, run, skip trash, stack here, be zerker geared, zerg boss to death, run, run, run, skip trash. Can't zerg the boss down in 5 seconds? Then that content is too hard. Skip that path, do another. - This is not running a dungeon. This is cherry picking bosses. Trash needs to drop loot to make it worth killing them. Bosses need to be able to kill the players, no matter how many there are and what gear set. Dodging was a thing in dungeons for a time.

    • Loot - It sucks. Loot sucks in the game to begin with, but if you're trying to run dungeons for money, the time is better spent meta farming. I would say that dungeons offer special loot in the form of skins, but you can get the same skins by farming PvP lobbys. If anything, add new skins, but only obtainable by running the dungeon, no PvP alternative.

    • Dungeon themes are outdated. - Orr is done, the Pact won. With Siren's Landing being open, Arah needs a different look. Same with the rest of the dungeons.

    • Actual Daily Dungeon. - Make the reward nice so it's worth doing. And not some stupid extra green piece of gear. Give a bag of tokens. 10 at least.

    This is just a handful of things that would make dungeons better.

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    @Shivan.9438 said:
    Dungeons need to be remade on every level.

    • Strategy and Mechanics. - Run, run, run, skip trash, stack here, be zerker geared, zerg boss to death, run, run, run, skip trash. Can't zerg the boss down in 5 seconds? Then that content is too hard. Skip that path, do another. - This is not running a dungeon. This is cherry picking bosses. Trash needs to drop loot to make it worth killing them. Bosses need to be able to kill the players, no matter how many there are and what gear set. Dodging was a thing in dungeons for a time.

    • Loot - It sucks. Loot sucks in the game to begin with, but if you're trying to run dungeons for money, the time is better spent meta farming. I would say that dungeons offer special loot in the form of skins, but you can get the same skins by farming PvP lobbys. If anything, add new skins, but only obtainable by running the dungeon, no PvP alternative.

    • Dungeon themes are outdated. - Orr is done, the Pact won. With Siren's Landing being open, Arah needs a different look. Same with the rest of the dungeons.

    • Actual Daily Dungeon. - Make the reward nice so it's worth doing. And not some stupid extra green piece of gear. Give a bag of tokens. 10 at least.

    This is just a handful of things that would make dungeons better.

    Repost, its GP/H (gold per hour) actually isnt bad, quit rant . The spreadsheet hasn't been updated since early 2018, but yeah it can be upwards of 30-50g per hour depending on available recipes and tour speed. Especially for people who don't have recipes, rising ecto and mat prices are good for dungeons. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443563530860363788/451915847049543682/xn8m74f.png

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

    As Robban mentioned in passing earlier, dungeons are mostly soloable if you're up for a challenge. There are a few places that have group mechanics that require more than one person, but for the most part if you can control the combat, you can solo a dungeon.

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    You do know it is possible to have an opinion on something even though you are aware that due to technical difficulties it will most likely never happen?

    Who said it's not possible to have an opinion? Sure, you can have any opinion you want, but there is such a thing as an ill-founded opinion. The opinion I objected to essentially stated that every other mmo can do dungeons without technical tradeoffs, so automatically GW2 should too. That's an opinion, sure, but a logically and objectively poor one, and I believe we have the right to treat it as such.

    Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?
    Only thing I could think of is giving a buff to the amount of players doing the dungeon, the more people doing the dungeon the weaker the buff is.

    Only way to make the dungeon content avaible to all without messing too much with the dungeons code

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    I wouldn’t say no to any kind of change or improvement in the current dungeons but more so I want to see new dungeons. I mean, lets be honest here - they say that team is gone, but fractals are just standalone dungeons without placement on the map. The fractal team could make dungeons

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:

    Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?

    I farm the dungeon frequenter achievement, so yes. I solo the same dungeons over and over. The easiest by far is Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, which takes roughly 10 mins to do alone. I've soloed all 4 paths in CM and SE as well, and I find myself solo clearing large portions of them as I wait for LFG to fill.

    But yeah, if you're into dungeons for some kind of story experience, replay value is extremely low. Which, I think, only further reinforces the idea that dungeons aren't worth reworking. I'd wager a good amount that most of the players clamoring for dungeon re-works probably aren't the kind of player who farms these sorts of instances efficiently, and just want to clear dungeons as part of their level-appropriate story (or hit a few paths that they've never managed to clear, ever).

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Rico.6873 said:

    Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?

    I farm the dungeon frequenter achievement, so yes. I solo the same dungeons over and over. The easiest by far is Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, which takes roughly 10 mins to do alone. I've soloed all 4 paths in CM and SE as well, and I find myself solo clearing large portions of them as I wait for LFG to fill.

    But yeah, if you're into dungeons for some kind of story experience, replay value is extremely low. Which, I think, only further reinforces the idea that dungeons aren't worth reworking. I'd wager a good amount that most of the players clamoring for dungeon re-works probably aren't the kind of player who farms these sorts of instances efficiently, and just want to clear dungeons as part of their level-appropriate story (or hit a few paths that they've never managed to clear, ever).

    The factor is rewards
    If you play a challenging action game, You are moving FORWARD that's a reward in itself
    Getting strong loot because you defeated a hard boss is another reward
    Challenging content is fine for completing it once but in most games you only have to defeat those hard bosses once
    Or they are tied to rare loot you can get only there, then its worth doing it

    Still doing content designed for group of 5 is different then doing designed challenging content for a single person
    I'm still liking the buff idea where the buff is tuned to the amount of people doing the dungeon, If someone leaves the buff gets stronger
    If someone enters the buff grows weaker, Changing the mobs/dungeon with how the code is would be too time consuming
    the buff idea would work the best, (we do have something similar in Fractals but thats just a boost in stats)

  • Thokketh.7594Thokketh.7594 Member ✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019
    I would want see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses, but no challenge mode is needed (since we have fractals).

    Goal:

    Make dungeons viable end game content.

    • They should still be easier than fractals and raids.
    • They should encourage high level character playing with low level characters.
    • They should let solo/small groups (1-4) still have endgame activities (solo players and small friend groups exist and should be accounted for)

    The Plan:
    Make dungeons into actually explorable areas

    • Merge Paths, make it so its an area you are completing not a single story path you are following. (AC - you would end all the gravelings and let the researcher get on with their work.)
    • Add a "participation" bar to give a reason to explore. (2 ways to implement)
    • The bar gives reward on "path" boss and resets. Takes about 5-10min of events to fill. Lets people break dungeons into chunks for rewards. (requires lots of/repeating events)

    □ OR

    • The bar is for "completion". Gives reward at end for doing every event and slaying every enemy. Requires less events but makes the dungeon take a longer chunk of time to get full reward.

    Make Dungeon rewards better

    • Make dungeon armor a unique item rarity. (ascended strength exotic)
      i. Red border (just cause)
      ii. Can pick from any core stat
      iii. Soulbound (on use)
      iv. Ascended strength (for stat values)
      v. No infusion slots
      vi. Not stat swappable

    • Give different rewards for characters leveling vs max level
      i. A leveling character gets the 70% of level exp.
      ii. A max level character gets extra gold
      □ or ascended mats, or stuff to make legendary armor (way less than raids and still weekly capped but at a much lower cap)
      iii. Personal rewards should not interfere with party rewards (I don’t think it would ever be designed that way but wanted to make sure it was stated)


    Add unique mechanics (harder to implement)

    • Add heroes to dungeons
      i. Unlocks after beating main story on the account (so you know all the people)
      ii. Available heroes dependent on which expansions you have. (destiny's edge for core, Dragon's Watch for expansions)
      iii. Lets you fill in missing members/roles for parties.
      iv. Able to change build, gear, and specializations for heroes. (renegade rytlok here we come)

    What I tried to solve:
    1. Bum rush/skipping
    2. Repeatability
    3. Small groups/solo play (they exist)

    These are what I would hope for in changes (unlikely I know)

  • I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    Would rather they just make new dungeons/paths and overal up the rewards.

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    The old dungeons are beyond help, but that doesn't stop Anet from making new ones. The raid team should have been put to work doing that instead, since accessible group content is basically nonexistent these days.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    The old dungeons are beyond help, but that doesn't stop Anet from making new ones. The raid team should have been put to work doing that instead, since accessible group content is basically nonexistent these days.

    Fractals says hello

  • abram.3081abram.3081 Member ✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    I want new dungeons. We have plenty of new maps to use for them.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Would be awesome but they would require alot of work now with the powercreep so doubt anet will want to put the time into it.

  • abram.3081abram.3081 Member ✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Would be awesome but they would require alot of work now with the powercreep so doubt anet will want to put the time into it.

    Not sure about the power creep being a reason for more work since tweaking things like mob health and or defense/attack shouldn't be that hard to begin with. Also, reusing assets from each new map would make it even easier, unless the maps use incompatible code with multi player the instancing?
    From a modular perspective, it shouldn't be any harder than creating a new fractal.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    Since fractals for me are progressively less what they started out as being, I have no issue with them putting fractals on hold and redoing or doing more, dungeons. Or finishing off the full 25 and then doing dungeons. I think a healthy set of fractals alongside a healthy set of dungeons is something positive to be encouraged.

    I don't see the need to drag the old quote from the depths about not doing them when priorities change over the years. Things have been implemented we thought not likely before.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    Since fractals for me are progressively less what they started out as being, I have no issue with them putting fractals on hold and redoing or doing more, dungeons.

    Fractals are dungeons.

    I don't see the need to drag the old quote from the depths about not doing them when priorities change over the years.

    ANet's recent comments have also said the same thing. The issue isn't priorities. It's that the tools used on modern dungeons (aka Fractals) make it easier to update the modern dungeons (aka Fractals); the tools used on the original dungeons are old and creaky.

    Maybe you're asking for ANet to use the new tools to create new non-fractal dungeons?
    Then the question is: what is it exactly that you want to see in the third generation of dungeons that we don't see now in the second generation?

    And at a rate of 2 new fractals per year (faster than the current progress), we're three years out from having 25.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I would rather see just the old bugs fixed. Besides the bugs, dungeons are fine as they are.

    may be arah can me more simple, but anyway not big reason to make changes in this perfect content.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Only main change i'd like to see is the dungeon story modes rebalanced for a solo player experience.

    As they are right now the story modes are soloable with a strong build and a certain level of player skill with the hardest being Honor of the Waves from my experience.
    But considering they tie into the Personal story they should be easier to solo and we know Anet is willing to do this on demand because they already did it with Arah.

  • I would want to see remake of old dungeons, adding updated mechanics to the bosses and introducing challenge mode along with new rewards.

    Guild wars 2 Needs More Dungeons/Raids/Fractals and lots more groups content that is repeatable and fun. more structured content. Map metas are nice but don't really encourage interaction.