Living world War Eternal contain spoilers — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Living world War Eternal contain spoilers

dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭
edited April 17, 2019 in Lore

This thread will contain spoilers so only read if you have finished up to episode 6 of season 4

I believe that Aurene did not die because of the episode long live the Lich where she absorbed Palawa Joko. Palawa Joko during this episode made use of Mesmer magic which Aurene would have absorbed along with the ability to traverse the mists as he was known to do.

The reason the death was convincing was because she had to make it appear that way. It’s an illusion like the ones we’ve had to use within the story. I wouldn’t be surprised if we really do see a “branded Aurene” next episode as a boss fight and when we kill it it shatters.
War eternal could also be referring to the fissure of woe a place in the mists once ruled by Balthazar. It would make sense that Kralkatorrik to retreat there after the fight it just had to rebuild its power. I think that Kralkatorrik will try bringing part of the area to the real land of Tyria as demonstrated in episode 4.
If this happens then Aurene would likely let it happen as she can also have control over the realm itself due to her proximity from Balthazar in the finale of path of fire.
Palawa Jokos greatest trick was letting the world think that he was dead.

Mesmer can manipulate energy to make it seem like another

<1

Comments

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe I missed how she obtained Joko’s magic. If she ate a lizard that could regenerate its lost limbs, does that mean she’d be able too as well?

  • She ate Joko consuming his magic

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    I understood as well that aurene consummed joko's magic. That's why we saw lights and blue ribons around joko's corpse, plus making aurene sick at the end of e4.

    For me, 2 scenarios:
    1~aurene has joko's power/soul, got killed and corrupted kralk making it sick too. (So aurene soul or joko's one fighting against kralk?)
    2~aurene can perform illusions, and trapped all of us. Joko isn't dead? Dum dum duuum

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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705 said:
    I understood as well that aurene consummed joko's magic. That's why we saw lights and blue ribons around joko's corpse, plus making aurene sick at the end of e4.

    For me, 2 scenarios:
    1~aurene has joko's power/soul, got killed and corrupted kralk making it sick too. (So aurene soul or joko's one fighting against kralk?)
    2~aurene can perform illusions, and trapped all of us. Joko isn't dead? Dum dum duuum

    Those lights could have been anything. Even if they were magic, that doesn’t mean she has his power. Being sick doesn’t mean she did either. There has been nothing that has indicated that she possesses his power. All that we have seen are player-driven assumptions.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Her being sick was probably just meant to be yet another, “oh no” our baby Aurene is in danger again” cliffhanger like they did with seemingly every other story chapter or episode. But I guess now that they’ve decided to potentially write her out of the picture I wonder how they’re going to provoke that same emotional response.

    It could mean more, but it seems more and more likely that moments like these aren’t really meant to be foreshadowing and are more likely to just be quick semi-gimmicky tools to obtain emotional response for the lifespan of that episode and that scene.

    At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the Skyscale is some hidden dragon race and Aurenes entire plot will just be a method of abstractly delivering us to discovering this race. Badda-bing, stay tuned for next episode when we kill off another character.

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    She eats/absorbs magic. That had already been clearly established. I highly doubt a creature that grows by consuming magic would have just let his waft away.

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  • Well the finale will end with a death we all know who on our team will die

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    @Mewcifer.5198 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    She eats/absorbs magic. That had already been clearly established. I highly doubt a creature that grows by consuming magic would have just let his waft away.

    But that doesn’t mean that she absorbed the magic from Joko. That’s assuming Joko had magic. Also, does she eat magic or just absorb magic?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    She unbound his magic. She has shown zero ability to utilise the magic and there is no evidence that absorbing the raw magc gives her the same powers.

    It has been overly debated for months and here us a more detailed counter argument
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/885655/#Comment_885655

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    "Hard knocks, bad luck, been knocked down,
    You got back up, rise up, shine on, keep on fighting, the war is almost done...But then I hear you're gone.
    I feel, when the lights go down, you are still here, all you hold dear remains.
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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic which caused him to be ""immortal".

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic.

    You don't need evidence, all beings have magic, that speaks for itself.
    Dragons eat magic and use its properties afterwards (Mordremoth using Zhaitan's magic, etc), Aurene not having showed it yet doesn't mean she won't be able to use that power in extreme cases, after all even powerful Elder Dragons weren't able to use absorbed magic right after consuming it. Ofc that's just an idea but it's plausible.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic.

    You don't need evidence, all beings have magic, that speaks for itself.
    Dragons eat magic and use its properties afterwards (Mordremoth using Zhaitan's magic, etc), Aurene not having showed it yet doesn't mean she won't be able to use that power in extreme cases, after all even powerful Elder Dragons weren't able to use absorbed magic right after consuming it. Ofc that's just an idea but it's plausible.

    And nothing indicates that Joko obtained his "immortality" from said magic and that this would be something Aurene would absorb from eating him.

    The only other Lich that we know of is the Vizier and he didn't obtain his powers through some innate magic.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Vizier_Khilbron

  • And for all we know what was left behind wasn’t Aurene but an illusion

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic.

    You don't need evidence, all beings have magic, that speaks for itself.
    Dragons eat magic and use its properties afterwards (Mordremoth using Zhaitan's magic, etc), Aurene not having showed it yet doesn't mean she won't be able to use that power in extreme cases, after all even powerful Elder Dragons weren't able to use absorbed magic right after consuming it. Ofc that's just an idea but it's plausible.

    And nothing indicates that Joko obtained his "immortality" from said magic and that this would be something Aurene would absorb from eating him.

    Sure but nothing indicates that Joko didn't obtain his immortality from his own magic as well, both interpretations are plausible.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic.

    You don't need evidence, all beings have magic, that speaks for itself.
    Dragons eat magic and use its properties afterwards (Mordremoth using Zhaitan's magic, etc), Aurene not having showed it yet doesn't mean she won't be able to use that power in extreme cases, after all even powerful Elder Dragons weren't able to use absorbed magic right after consuming it. Ofc that's just an idea but it's plausible.

    And nothing indicates that Joko obtained his "immortality" from said magic and that this would be something Aurene would absorb from eating him.

    Sure but nothing indicates that Joko didn't obtain his immortality from his own magic as well, both interpretations are plausible.

    And if that's the case, her eating Joko cannot be used as a means on how she may come back (if at all). Otherwise you'd be basing an assumption on an assumption based on another assumption.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Almost all beings in GW universe have magic, some more some less and I bet Joko was one of the individuals who possess more.
    (Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic
    "All living beings have a natural ability to access and use magic, and it is extremely rare that someone is born without it—current theories suggest that this typically happens more often when the world is at a lower level of magic." )

    Just because she ate something, does not mean that she absorbed its magic. And yet again, there is no evidence that Joko had magic.

    You don't need evidence, all beings have magic, that speaks for itself.
    Dragons eat magic and use its properties afterwards (Mordremoth using Zhaitan's magic, etc), Aurene not having showed it yet doesn't mean she won't be able to use that power in extreme cases, after all even powerful Elder Dragons weren't able to use absorbed magic right after consuming it. Ofc that's just an idea but it's plausible.

    And nothing indicates that Joko obtained his "immortality" from said magic and that this would be something Aurene would absorb from eating him.

    Sure but nothing indicates that Joko didn't obtain his immortality from his own magic as well, both interpretations are plausible.

    And if that's the case, her eating Joko cannot be used as a means on how she may come back (if at all). Otherwise you'd be basing an assumption on an assumption based on another assumption.

    Assumptions ftw! ^^
    (As long as they bring back my Aurene T.T)

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    Aurene ate Balthazar's magic and its reference quite abit that she carries on his magic (u could speculate that since balthazar is a mist traveler her ability to open up portals and join the mists is from balthazar).

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    When we first see Aurene bite onto Joko, there's an explosion of magic. After the cinematic, that magic then formed around her as a mist/fog effect, and knocks the Commander back if attempting to approach before going into Aurene.

    That all said, it's unlikely Aurene got Joko's immortality (despite it being #1 fan-theory that gets constantly restated as an original theory every week still), for two reasons.

    1) His immortality was a spell - as you noted in another post. When Elder Dragons absorb others' magic, they don't know how to use the magic in the same way, they have to learn how to use it (thus why there's such a delay in Primordus and Kralkatorrik using Zhaitan's magic, or Kralkatorrik using Balthazar's), and on top of that, they always use it in a new way (one that fits their methods).

    2) Elder Dragons seem to only get magical powers from Elder Dragons and (demi)gods. We know this because Elder Dragons eat all sorts of magic - they're the complete opposite of picky eaters - yet the only time we see them with new powers is when they get the magic of a dead Elder Dragon or Balthazar. And Joko was just one of many liches, nothing special or cosmic about him like the ED or gods.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Aurene ate Balthazar's magic and its reference quite abit that she carries on his magic (u could speculate that since balthazar is a mist traveler her ability to open up portals and join the mists is from balthazar).

    It's not speculation, it's confirmed fact that Aurene's and Kralkatorrik's powers to open rifts is because of Balthazar.

    But just because they can use Balthazar's magic - the magic of a demigod - doesn't mean they can use the magic of a mortal who gained "faux" immortality via a spell of lichdom.

  • I never stated immortality at all I’m stating illusionary magic is used at the end to make it seem like she is dead

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Joko’s gone.
    Aurene ate his magic, unbound it, thats how you kill an immortal. Thats the end of that story.

    War Eternal is referring to the mists.
    With Glint, Glaust, Aurene and other scions dead, their spirits are waiting for kralkatorrik in the mists.
    War Eternal means we’ll seal Kalkatorrik in the mists where he can have literally all eternity to reconcile with his daughter.
    They’re already dead so he can’t do anything to them anymore, and they dont have to kill him, and make the magic lost.

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think war eternal meaning the fissure of woe is fairly unlikely. I’m starting to think it isn’t about a place or story beat, but our character’s attitude. Whether we win against kralk or not, whether aurene is back in the next episode or not, we’ve been through a lot. And there’s no end in sight - there are 3 more dragons, all manner of threats, uprisings, secret cults, ancient beings, etc that will keep coming out of nowhere. Why is it always us? Why do we have to deal with it? We defended our home from an attack one day, and we just never stopped going. That’s what I think our character will be thinking

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    I think it's been confirmed in Zafirah's Requiem story that there is no magic left in Aurene's body, not in the slightest.

    A potential that lived on in Aurene.
    Until she died.

    A potential = Balthazar's magic

    When Balthazar was killed, some of his magic didn't stay in his body, it all left him, there is no difference with Aurene's death.

    I think the only character that can help us is the Pale Tree.

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    When we first see Aurene bite onto Joko, there's an explosion of magic. After the cinematic, that magic then formed around her as a mist/fog effect, and knocks the Commander back if attempting to approach before going into Aurene.

    That all said, it's unlikely Aurene got Joko's immortality (despite it being #1 fan-theory that gets constantly restated as an original theory every week still), for two reasons.

    1) His immortality was a spell - as you noted in another post. When Elder Dragons absorb others' magic, they don't know how to use the magic in the same way, they have to learn how to use it (thus why there's such a delay in Primordus and Kralkatorrik using Zhaitan's magic, or Kralkatorrik using Balthazar's), and on top of that, they always use it in a new way (one that fits their methods).

    2) Elder Dragons seem to only get magical powers from Elder Dragons and (demi)gods. We know this because Elder Dragons eat all sorts of magic - they're the complete opposite of picky eaters - yet the only time we see them with new powers is when they get the magic of a dead Elder Dragon or Balthazar. And Joko was just one of many liches, nothing special or cosmic about him like the ED or gods.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Aurene ate Balthazar's magic and its reference quite abit that she carries on his magic (u could speculate that since balthazar is a mist traveler her ability to open up portals and join the mists is from balthazar).

    It's not speculation, it's confirmed fact that Aurene's and Kralkatorrik's powers to open rifts is because of Balthazar.

    But just because they can use Balthazar's magic - the magic of a demigod - doesn't mean they can use the magic of a mortal who gained "faux" immortality via a spell of lichdom.

    The term god is kinda subjective, balthazar was very much mortal and killable theres not specific statement indicating that gods are strictly different beings from normal humans, for all we know they could just be humans we incredible quantities of magic.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    I never stated immortality at all I’m stating illusionary magic is used at the end to make it seem like she is dead

    Same thing ultimately. The idea of stealing spells, rather than gaining access to domains (which is what we see happen).

    Besides that, faking death to allies is a poor and useless move, and the Requiem short stories have established that the group has been there, near Aurene's corpse, for some time. Hours at least, arguably days or weeks.

    If Aurene was making an illusion, she'd shatter it once Kralk leaves, before the Commander would find her. If Aurene was immortal in the same way as Joko, she'd be up and moving again within seconds, again before the Commander would find her.

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    War Eternal is referring to the mists.
    With Glint, Glaust, Aurene and other scions dead, their spirits are waiting for kralkatorrik in the mists.
    War Eternal means we’ll seal Kalkatorrik in the mists where he can have literally all eternity to reconcile with his daughter.
    They’re already dead so he can’t do anything to them anymore, and they dont have to kill him, and make the magic lost.

    There's no certainty that it refers to the Mists. And no certainty that the theory of trapping Kralk will occur, or even possible (even though I subscribe to it) - looping fractal or no.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The term god is kinda subjective, balthazar was very much mortal and killable theres not specific statement indicating that gods are strictly different beings from normal humans, for all we know they could just be humans we incredible quantities of magic.

    The term is subjective in a non-fictional setting, but in a fictional setting it tends to have a definite role of who is or isn't a god.

    In GW's setting, much like in most pantheonic mythos establishments, "gods" are immortal not in the "unkillable" sense, but in the "never dies of age" sense. The Six Gods can be killed, as we saw with Abaddon, but they are 100% gods.

    As for being different than normal humans, they certainly are. Even excluding the fact that gods have some sort of unique magical energy (which is simply called divine magic for all intents and purposes), a god's body is not flesh and blood. As established during The Heart of the Volcano instance, Balthazar had no life signatures and similarly, Kormir is stated in one of the Koss on Koss objects to have died to ascend to godhood. We also see what happens when a god dies - their bodies break apart, and in Balthazar's case, reveals that there's nothing but skin, skeleton, and magic that constitutes their body. Lastly, we also know that gods can safely absorb magic (at least when they're former gods like Balthazar and Dhuum), while humans very much cannot as proven by the PoF bounty system and lore.

    The Six Gods may look human, to varying degrees, but they certainly are not human (anymore, in Kormir's case).

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Joko’s gone.
    Aurene ate his magic, unbound it, thats how you kill an immortal. Thats the end of that story.

    War Eternal is referring to the mists.
    With Glint, Glaust, Aurene and other scions dead, their spirits are waiting for kralkatorrik in the mists.
    War Eternal means we’ll seal Kalkatorrik in the mists where he can have literally all eternity to reconcile with his daughter.
    They’re already dead so he can’t do anything to them anymore, and they dont have to kill him, and make the magic lost.

    Not sure how you're going to trap Kralk in the mists unless you somehow extract the part of his magic that allows him to enter and exit as he pleases.

    And if that's the case, what's the solution going to be? Have the gods magically reappear and help us beat him down until they can extract Balth's essence or whatever?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    I never stated immortality at all I’m stating illusionary magic is used at the end to make it seem like she is dead

    Same thing ultimately. The idea of stealing spells, rather than gaining access to domains (which is what we see happen).

    Besides that, faking death to allies is a poor and useless move, and the Requiem short stories have established that the group has been there, near Aurene's corpse, for some time. Hours at least, arguably days or weeks.

    If Aurene was making an illusion, she'd shatter it once Kralk leaves, before the Commander would find her. If Aurene was immortal in the same way as Joko, she'd be up and moving again within seconds, again before the Commander would find her.

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    War Eternal is referring to the mists.
    With Glint, Glaust, Aurene and other scions dead, their spirits are waiting for kralkatorrik in the mists.
    War Eternal means we’ll seal Kalkatorrik in the mists where he can have literally all eternity to reconcile with his daughter.
    They’re already dead so he can’t do anything to them anymore, and they dont have to kill him, and make the magic lost.

    There's no certainty that it refers to the Mists. And no certainty that the theory of trapping Kralk will occur, or even possible (even though I subscribe to it) - looping fractal or no.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    The term god is kinda subjective, balthazar was very much mortal and killable theres not specific statement indicating that gods are strictly different beings from normal humans, for all we know they could just be humans we incredible quantities of magic.

    The term is subjective in a non-fictional setting, but in a fictional setting it tends to have a definite role of who is or isn't a god.

    In GW's setting, much like in most pantheonic mythos establishments, "gods" are immortal not in the "unkillable" sense, but in the "never dies of age" sense. The Six Gods can be killed, as we saw with Abaddon, but they are 100% gods.

    As for being different than normal humans, they certainly are. Even excluding the fact that gods have some sort of unique magical energy (which is simply called divine magic for all intents and purposes), a god's body is not flesh and blood. As established during The Heart of the Volcano instance, Balthazar had no life signatures and similarly, Kormir is stated in one of the Koss on Koss objects to have died to ascend to godhood. We also see what happens when a god dies - their bodies break apart, and in Balthazar's case, reveals that there's nothing but skin, skeleton, and magic that constitutes their body. Lastly, we also know that gods can safely absorb magic (at least when they're former gods like Balthazar and Dhuum), while humans very much cannot as proven by the PoF bounty system and lore.

    The Six Gods may look human, to varying degrees, but they certainly are not human (anymore, in Kormir's case).

    I say that its realistic that aurene could stay ded for a while and still pull it off because it would be her first time attempting it, we've seen joko do it but for all we know he could be alive for as long humans have existed in tyria, even before that.

    We havent seen much of joko's magic other than his ability to manipulate souls,so even if aureme doesnt get her old body its more than baseless speculation to assume that she might be in position to manipulate her own soul.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Joko’s gone.
    Aurene ate his magic, unbound it, thats how you kill an immortal. Thats the end of that story.

    War Eternal is referring to the mists.
    With Glint, Glaust, Aurene and other scions dead, their spirits are waiting for kralkatorrik in the mists.
    War Eternal means we’ll seal Kalkatorrik in the mists where he can have literally all eternity to reconcile with his daughter.
    They’re already dead so he can’t do anything to them anymore, and they dont have to kill him, and make the magic lost.

    Not sure how you're going to trap Kralk in the mists unless you somehow extract the part of his magic that allows him to enter and exit as he pleases.

    And if that's the case, what's the solution going to be? Have the gods magically reappear and help us beat him down until they can extract Balth's essence or whatever?

    I mean, that's really the only option that has been adequately set-up in the current narrative.

    Trapping Krakatorrik in a timeloop is all well and good, but it has not been established as an option beforehand and it suddenly coming out of the blue in the last episode and then implemented in the same breath when the Commander and others are being established to have no idea what to do would be rather poor storywriting.

    The Gods have been established to at least be able to manipulate Dragon magic in some manner (Balthazar being able to as a demigod, the Gods drawing on Zhaitan's magic whilst in Orr), there has been a material change in circumstance (Kralkatorrik able to enter the Mists and consume all reality), could well be some personal motivation for an intervention (Lyssa has yet to be touched on despite her evident involvement in the narrative at some level, Kormir doesn't strike me as really wanting to leave either) and finally the Gods DO have a history of "Regulating and sharing magic" via the Bloodstones.

    More to the point, the Gods are quite literally the only beings left that know the details of the Forgotten's plan, their back-ups and likely have their own contingencies as well, and I cannot stress enough how, in the narrative, the Commander and no one else knows what to do and thinks the world is going to end. Suddenly turning around at the start of episode 6 and going "guys i have a plan" will be... Well, there'll be some whiplash.

    I expect the Gods to offer a solution in some manner, whatever that solution may be. They're a near continuous theme and underlying narrative throughout near the entirety of the expansion's story. Narratively, a theoretical intervention has a lot of weight behind it.

    Narrative, narrative, narrative. I know it's tiring to hear me say that all the time, but it really is imperative to use already established story elements rather than introduce something new out of the blue. That's a flaw GW2's story has always had and I would like to see it fixed.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    No, because the story hasn't progressed far enough for that potential reveal. All that exists now is the 'possibility' that she did. That last chapter ended with a "To Be Continued..." vibe, why would they reveal the conclusion of part 2 in the same episode?

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Joko had magic and if any good Mesmer with a death stunt would make everyone believe they were dead. If the thing is an illusion Aurene could have just split to the mists and hidden or try gaining an army. You forget the fact that Mesmer in the game are insanely powerful. Especially Queen Jennahs ability to hold a shield over divinities reach to protect everyone.

    Jokos magic was shown many times. If you don’t think any of that was magic then I don’t know what version of this game your playing

    Palawa Joko has lore that was established in guild wars 1 aswell as his armies and magic. You should go give it a reading as you’d be surprised it was you that released him

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    She ate Joko consuming his magic

    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic as well or whatever it was that allowed him to keep coming back.

    Aurene is Kralkatorriks granddaughter and has the same abilities as the elder dragons. It's established during the personal story that elder dragons eat magic - that's why they're drawn to places with high magical energy (like Orr and the depths of the Maguuma) and why their minions collect magical artifacts and other sources of magic for them. This is also why they're such a threat, because in Tyria magic is like energy in real life; without it nothing can exist - living things will die, non-living things will be destroyed. If the magic is loose then the dragons can absorb it directly, much like player characters collecting unbound or volatile magic. If it's contained in something the simplest way for them to absorb it is to eat that thing (again like energy in real life).

    So it wasn't addressed during that storyline, but it had already been established as fact in the Guild Wars universe. Joko was a lich, so one of his magical abilities is to come back from the dead. When Aurene ate him she absorbed all his magic and that will have included that ability.

    Of course we don't know yet if she will be able to use it. We don't really know how Liches in Tyria 'work', except that in GW1 killing one on top of a bloodstone stopped it coming back. There might be something she had to do to activate the magic (like a spell with a cast time), or it might bring her back changed (undead Aurene?). Or, like when Kralkatorrik absorbed Zhaitan's magic and created the death-branded shatterer the magic might have changed when she absorbed it and now it does something different.

    But it seems likely eating Joko will have some effect, which will tie into the next storyline.

    Again. There's no indication that she absorbed Joko's magic nor have the ability to use it. That is all assuming Joko had magic.

    Joko had magic and if any good Mesmer with a death stunt would make everyone believe they were dead. If the thing is an illusion Aurene could have just split to the mists and hidden or try gaining an army. You forget the fact that Mesmer in the game are insanely powerful. Especially Queen Jennahs ability to hold a shield over divinities reach to protect everyone.

    Jokos magic was shown many times. If you don’t think any of that was magic then I don’t know what version of this game your playing

    Palawa Joko has lore that was established in guild wars 1 aswell as his armies and magic. You should go give it a reading as you’d be surprised it was you that released him

    Magic in the sense of something that could be absorbed and used on the scale of what could be gained from elder dragons.

    An assumption is being made that Joko’s immortality was due to his magic when other known Lich’s obtained theirs from a spell and nothing backs up someone having the innate ability to be one.

    An assumption that you’re making now is that she can eat something and essentially possess all of the abilities of a class. So if she ate a guardian, elementalist, necro and so on, she’d have all of their magic?

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    There’s a huge possibility that she’s tapped into Jokos Mesmer magic is what I’m saying.

    There’s no reason to think she could have gained immortality.

    From what we know about Mesmer is they can alter the look and smell and the feelings of others with environmental illusions

    Who’s to say she didn’t memorize Kralkatorrik energy and decide to disguise as it? Similar to how we became awakened

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2019

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    There’s a huge possibility that she’s tapped into Jokos Mesmer magic is what I’m saying.

    There’s no reason to think she could have gained immortality.

    From what we know about Mesmer is they can alter the look and smell and the feelings of others with environmental illusions

    Who’s to say she didn’t memorize Kralkatorrik energy and decide to disguise as it? Similar to how we became awakened

    Well in that case we just need Kralk to go find some random Mesmer to eat and gain their power. Actually, why stop there? It should just eat people from all of the classes if that’s all that it takes. If Aurene can gain Mesmer abilities from just eating a Mesmer then there’s no reason Kralk can’t do the same with that class or the others.

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    More to the point, the Gods are quite literally the only beings left that know the details of the Forgotten's plan, their back-ups and likely have their own contingencies as well, and I cannot stress enough how, in the narrative, the Commander and no one else knows what to do and thinks the world is going to end. Suddenly turning around at the start of episode 6 and going "guys i have a plan" will be... Well, there'll be some whiplash.

    Agree to this. Really hope they don't pull some random solution out of nowhere, which is why I hope they don't suddenly and randomly involve the Pale Tree, who's been out of the story since LWS2, or some other random character. Would much rather have Aurene use Joko's magic to come back than some kind of random out of the blue solution, or at least have us do some kind of work to find a solution without someone else on our team randomly making up an idea (Looking at you, Taimi...) without any effort from the PC.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poormany.4507 said:
    Agree to this. Really hope they don't pull some random solution out of nowhere, which is why I hope they don't suddenly and randomly involve the Pale Tree, who's been out of the story since LWS2, or some other random character. Would much rather have Aurene use Joko's magic to come back than some kind of random out of the blue solution, or at least have us do some kind of work to find a solution without someone else on our team randomly making up an idea (Looking at you, Taimi...) without any effort from the PC.

    We know the Pale Tree has begun to heal due to the knight of the thorn achivement chain (aka after the end of Heart of Thorns). These are dialogue window chains that have names edited in for clarity's sake

    In The Omphalos Chamber after completing The Sword Regrown and receiving the "Urgent Request" mail (for non-sylvari characters)
    Mender Aine: The Pale Mother seems to have recovered significantly, and I believe we have your efforts to thank for that, hero.
    Commander: Talk more option tango.png Is she fully recovered?
    Mender Aine: Her avatar is awake, but it is simply a means for her to interact with us. The Tree is still hurt, on levels I do not claim to understand. I urge you to not overtax her attention.

    If non-sylvari, after completing The Sword Regrown and receiving the "Urgent Request" mail
    Avatar of the Tree: Name, I have felt your quest within my dream.
    Commander: I'm glad to see that you're feeling better.
    Avatar of the Tree: There is much I would speak to you of, but I must rest again soon. For now, allow me to give you my blessing.

    While it is a new achievement chain that was introduced in 2017, you get access to the achievement chain only after you beat mordremoth in hearts and minds.

    However, I doubt that she'll have any significant interactions with the main story for a bit longer, until we start potentially getting into pale tree/malyck stuff.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poormany.4507 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    More to the point, the Gods are quite literally the only beings left that know the details of the Forgotten's plan, their back-ups and likely have their own contingencies as well, and I cannot stress enough how, in the narrative, the Commander and no one else knows what to do and thinks the world is going to end. Suddenly turning around at the start of episode 6 and going "guys i have a plan" will be... Well, there'll be some whiplash.

    Agree to this. Really hope they don't pull some random solution out of nowhere, which is why I hope they don't suddenly and randomly involve the Pale Tree, who's been out of the story since LWS2, or some other random character. Would much rather have Aurene use Joko's magic to come back than some kind of random out of the blue solution, or at least have us do some kind of work to find a solution without someone else on our team randomly making up an idea (Looking at you, Taimi...) without any effort from the PC.

    I think, if they're going to resurrect Aurene, the best alternative at this point to appease all of the people that want her death to "mean something" or not "cheapen" the plot, the best way at this point would be to have her be a death branded champion that we cleanse the way Glint was cleansed. But at this point, I don't think that's the direction they're going. It would be an awesome experience to have in game, but it doesn't feel like they're moving in that direction. I do wonder though, how all of this jungle foliage and the new map relates to the story and the Skyscales. Could we be visiting a map that contains Malyk's tree? Doubtful, but who knows. I do find it interesting that the Skyscale has the same expanded forehead nasal area like Aurene, which I always believed she gained from absorbing Mordremoth while she was in the egg.

    The horns are interesting though, as Zhaitan was the one with horns. Of course none of it may matter in the end and it could be a completely unrelated new species of dragon with its own physical attributes.

    I think at that point, it's more interesting to think about how we discover this area. Are we just following the tracker inside of Kralk? Are we going to be led to this area via Caithe as the golden child messenger as usual guiding us - this time via knowledge she gained when she melded with Aurene, or some other method of discovery? I hope we get a trailer next week though, because it's getting quite frustrating.

    We also have Caithe's requiem though, and I don't know if they would release both the trailer and Caithe's requiem on the same day. So, that leads me to wonder if perhaps we'll get the final requiem, and then a week later we get the trailer, and then the week after the patch. The fact that we didn't get the requiem this previous Tuesday makes me think that the episode is probably further off than people are expecting.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    More to the point, the Gods are quite literally the only beings left that know the details of the Forgotten's plan, their back-ups and likely have their own contingencies as well, and I cannot stress enough how, in the narrative, the Commander and no one else knows what to do and thinks the world is going to end. Suddenly turning around at the start of episode 6 and going "guys i have a plan" will be... Well, there'll be some whiplash.

    It's possible the Exalted of Tarir know something, if there were backup plans the Forgotten had. As devoted as they are to Glint, those in Tarir were never suggested to ever have been in contact with Glint or Vlast (unlike those in Kesho or the Zephyrites).

    There's actually reaosn to believe this. If we go back to Heart of Thorn, specifically A Study in Gold, we see this sentence:

    "En route to our final destination, we sheltered in a hollow and performed the exalting rituals, but ultimately, we left there as well. One day, Tarir will no longer serve us, and you will move on. Do not fear that day. When it comes, you will know that your purpose has been fulfilled."

    And yet, the Exalted have not left Tarir... Except for that one blacksmith in Thunderhead. Unless they moved without telling us.

    IF Aurene's death has been prophecized so as to ascend into Elder Dragonhood, that may be part of the prophecy - that her death is the signal for the Exalted to leave Tarir to a new place, the next step in the legacy.

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    There’s a huge possibility that she’s tapped into Jokos Mesmer magic is what I’m saying.

    There’s no reason to think she could have gained immortality.

    From what we know about Mesmer is they can alter the look and smell and the feelings of others with environmental illusions

    Who’s to say she didn’t memorize Kralkatorrik energy and decide to disguise as it? Similar to how we became awakened

    I would disagree. Given evidence we've seen, I'd say there's a small possibility.

    Sure, a possibility exists. But it's far from a huge one.

    The major factor is that so far, the only beings to grant new magic to ED/Aurene upon death are Elder Dragons and a former god. Elder Dragons have consumed magic from all sorts of sources, yet never gained their type of magic. Joko is not an Elder Dragon nor a god (despite his self-proclamations), so there's no actual evidence to support the claim that Aurene would gain access to Joko's type of magic.

    There's nothing to prove it can't happen, so there's a possibility, but there's no support for it either, so the possibility is far from huge.

    And we hit the snag of "why would Aurene maintain the illusion long after Kralkatorrik is gone, when her allies and friends are all weeping around her, disheartened and believing their hope and world to be dead and doomed?" Honestly, if we open with Aurene having been "playing dead", then Aurene is the biggest kitten in existence.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    I do wonder though, how all of this jungle foliage and the new map relates to the story and the Skyscales. Could we be visiting a map that contains Malyk's tree? Doubtful, but who knows. I do find it interesting that the Skyscale has the same expanded forehead nasal area like Aurene, which I always believed she gained from absorbing Mordremoth while she was in the egg.

    The horns are interesting though, as Zhaitan was the one with horns. Of course none of it may matter in the end and it could be a completely unrelated new species of dragon with its own physical attributes.

    Never considered the nose thing related to Mordremoth, but the tail being the same as Aurene's and Kralaktorrik's (and a bit similar to Vlast's who had a different model entirely) had made me think the Skyscale may be the dragon species that the crystal dragon family is a part of, but without crystal magic. It could be expanded to the species of bone dragons and Zhaitan (though I'm not really sure the horns match Zhaitan's - Zhaitan's sweep downward then forward, while Skyscale's go up and forward and are thicker), really. Though obviously not Mordremoth (unless it turns out the snake body was indeed not Mordremoth's original, but that'd be boring to have all Elder Dragons coming from a singular family, especially since GW1 Primordus looked very unique for a dragon in terms of overall skeleton structure, as it had no forearms or frontal wings but instead four tendrils, and Jormag is suggested to be serpentine like Mordremoth).

    But for where the map is, there's heavy Elonian assets and no visual air separation like we got with the Jahai fractal bubbles, which makes me think the Elona-to-Jungle layout is naturally formed. That would suggest against a Heart of Maguuma map, esp. since it's coastal, so very unlikely to feature Malyck's tree.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    We also have Caithe's requiem though, and I don't know if they would release both the trailer and Caithe's requiem on the same day. So, that leads me to wonder if perhaps we'll get the final requiem, and then a week later we get the trailer, and then the week after the patch. The fact that we didn't get the requiem this previous Tuesday makes me think that the episode is probably further off than people are expecting.

    Due to the timing of the advertisements, return weeks, etc. people (and myself included) seem to be expecting/hoping for an April 30th release. This would suggest we get the trailer on this coming Tuesday. I could see us getting Caithe's Requiem and the trailer at the same time. Alternatively, the 30th may be the date for the trailer.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    We also have Caithe's requiem though, and I don't know if they would release both the trailer and Caithe's requiem on the same day. So, that leads me to wonder if perhaps we'll get the final requiem, and then a week later we get the trailer, and then the week after the patch. The fact that we didn't get the requiem this previous Tuesday makes me think that the episode is probably further off than people are expecting.

    To be fair on this point, Zafirah's requiem was released the same day as the skyscale reveal on eurogamer, both on April 9th. The war eternal teaser was shown during the Rezzed gw2 panel on Aurene's death and on twitter on the same day too (april 5th, double checked that they were on the same day), so they had a plan and it's possible they'll continue the double release pattern with caithe and the trailer drop with a date that's one week later.

    To be even fairer, your prediction sounds more likely to happen however. which sucks cause i'm gonna be traveling at that point and won't have as easy access to gw2. I REALLY want that dragon.

    If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. Veterans can make signatures apparently.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Her being sick was probably just meant to be yet another, “oh no” our baby Aurene is in danger again” cliffhanger like they did with seemingly every other story chapter or episode. But I guess now that they’ve decided to potentially write her out of the picture I wonder how they’re going to provoke that same emotional response.

    It could mean more, but it seems more and more likely that moments like these aren’t really meant to be foreshadowing and are more likely to just be quick semi-gimmicky tools to obtain emotional response for the lifespan of that episode and that scene.

    At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the Skyscale is some hidden dragon race and Aurenes entire plot will just be a method of abstractly delivering us to discovering this race. Badda-bing, stay tuned for next episode when we kill off another character.

    As long as the character they kill off is Caithe.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086

    Do you think the next episode could have something to do with the Eternals? The game has already made reference to them and the Eternal Battle. My basis is pretty weak though since it centers around “Eternal” being in the title and that it appears we may be in the Mists.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396

    Every episode's title since S3 has been a reference to an event that occurs or is symbolized during the course of the episode. Never a group nor a location. So I don't think the title has anything to do with Balthazar, his replacement, Menzies, the Eternals, the Eternal Battle, or the Fissure or Woe. They may still show up, given that we're in a Mists-heavy plot, but the title is unlikely to be referencing them.

  • Maybe eternal is about power that Balthazar was stripped off.

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    There isn’t a god of war anymore. So there could be a new one rising.

    My theory was Rytlock taking his place

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It isn't necessarily the case that there isn't a god of war anymore. Balthazar was stripped of his divinity and power, and as we learned first hand (aka non-retconable lore), divine power needs a vessel to not destroy existence.

    Unless the gods magically found a way to contain the power of a god in an inanimate object or spread it amongst each other (which would pretty much make the entire plot of GW1 and Abaddon to be utterly pointless so let's hope that's not the case), that should mean that they had found a new vessel to become a new god of war back when they stripped Balthazar of his power.

    So, pending bad retcons, there should be an unknown god of war/conflict out there already.

  • My theory is on rytlock

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Her being sick was probably just meant to be yet another, “oh no” our baby Aurene is in danger again” cliffhanger like they did with seemingly every other story chapter or episode.

    Or you know, he's a centuries old dead guy. Doesn't make for the best eating. Gave her tummy the rumblies.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    She ate Joko. I don’t recall anything indicating that meant that she obtained his magic [...]

    The big bright globe of light exploding wasn't enough of a hint for you? ;)

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