More Nerfs?!?! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

More Nerfs?!?!

Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited April 19, 2019 in Mesmer

This is why I left this game and it looks like my tenure away will be extended again.
Don't get me wrong some things are changed for the better.
But then reading the concurrent nerfs along with it makes me scratch my head, and then re-realize that this team has no actual plan to improve the class they nerfed for a year with no actual compensation or redaction.

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Mesmer

Mesmer traits that influence shatter skills typically affect all shatter skills, which has caused a lot of design bloat over the years. In this update, we're moving to change some of these traits to affect specific shatter skills in a stronger way, in order to both cut down on this bloat and to make the individual trait selections more meaningful. Other traits, such as Flow of Time and Seize the Moment, have had their boons changed from multiple stacks to a single stack in order to make it less likely that rapid shattering will cause the mesmer to run over the stack cap. Finally, Mass Invisibility has fallen behind other mesmer elite skills—as well as other sources of stealth over the years—so we're giving it a boost to help it compete.

  • Magic Bullet: Stun duration for this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds.
  • Counter Blade: Daze duration for this ability has been increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.
  • Illusionary Counter: This skill now uses an 8-second cooldown in all game modes.
  • Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
  • Signet of Illusions: This skill's recharge now begins at the same time shatter skills are recharged.
  • Mantra of Distraction: Daze time for this skill has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds.
  • Confounding Suggestions: This trait no longer increases daze and stun durations. Instead, Diversion stuns foes for 1.5 seconds and no longer dazes foes.
  • Blinding Dissipation: This trait no longer blinds foes on the activation of each shatter skill. It will now cause Cry of Frustration to blind every target it strikes. Blindness duration is split between game modes, lasting 1.5 seconds in WvW and PvP and 3 seconds in PvE.
  • Dazzling: This trait now applies vulnerability when stunning a foe, in addition to when dazing them.
  • Flow of Time: This trait now grants the full alacrity amount as soon as it is activated instead of waiting for illusions to shatter.
  • Seize the Moment: This trait now grants the full quickness amount as soon as it is activated instead of waiting for illusions to shatter.
  • Master of Manipulation: Instead of granting the mirror effect, this trait now grants superspeed for 3 seconds. This superspeed is also applied to allies affected by your manipulation skills.
  • Mass Invisibility: Reduced the casting time of the land version of this skill to match the underwater version. Increased the base stealth duration from 5 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced the recharge from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
  • Evasive Mirror: Increased this trait's cooldown from 1.5 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Tingle my stingleberry

<13

Comments

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    i rather like the changes though I only play power-chronomancer in pve and condi-mirage in wvw, so not much changes for me except that now I no longer rely on my clones to shatter to get alacrity, which is a huge QoL-change.
    I really consider going for support-chronomancer now.^^

    "I´m not big on sermons, Broken bones teach better lessons."

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    As gvg mesmer player im already refusing to play since last years nerfs, it just seems i wont have to worry about GW2 for another 2 or soo months

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    All of the changes are making me cry, as it seems they have no clue what to do and just changing stuff around to laugh how the forums explode. The chrono changes are kinda nice, but self boons were almost permanent anyway, that is more like a open world/PvP change, the nerf of this trait is kind understandable cough40k on desima and carin cough BUT they did not take into consideration the skillcap of the build so, i said nothing... They just have no idea about how the game works... And that is pretty sad

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    1. GS builds are nerfed again with Blinding dissipation - Severely nerfed. Just not in the right way that it should have. Should have been chrono line.
    2. You want to talk about worthwhile traits to condi, what about worthwhile traits for power? Master Fencer is a PvE trait. There is a reason people don't choose it in PvP and haven't since before HoT even came out.
    3. They should nerf stealth in other skills then. Why did they make stealth buffs to begin with? All the Core Class in this game are now so blatantly unbalanced that it's crazy. What do you think would happen if Elite specs were gone tomorrow? Would the game be balanced? Because that is where they need to start from again. They need to start from square one because of the disastrous changes that have accumulated over time.
    4. I don't give a kitten about Daredevil. Daredevil is one elite spec trait line (NOT core) and Core Thief did not even come close to getting the number of core trait nerfs mesmer has got over time.

    All the other changes were good, but for me the entire patch suggestions are completely ruined and overshadowed by what they suggested for blinding dissipation. I don't think evasive mirror should be that badly nerfed either since it is a core skill. However, I didn't use evasive mirror before and wouldn't plan to since it would REVEAL you if you use MASS INVISIBILITY, the exact same problem they were trying to prevent this patch. Shakes head.

    Now, the only reason I am even currently still trying to suggest positive changes to gw2 anymore is because I don't know any other game with a phycological themed class. Does anyone know any good games for people who liked mesmer as a replacement?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    1. GS builds are nerfed again with Blinding dissipation - Severely nerfed. Just not in the right way that it should have. Should have been chrono line.
    2. You want to talk about worthwhile traits to condi, what about worthwhile traits for power? Master Fencer is a PvE trait. There is a reason people don't choose it in PvP and haven't since before HoT even came out.
    3. They should nerf stealth in other skills then. Why did they make stealth buffs to begin with? All the Core Class in this game are now so blatantly unbalanced that it's crazy. What do you think would happen if Elite specs were gone tomorrow? Would the game be balanced? Because that is were they need to start from again. They need to start from square one because of the disastrous changes that have accumulated over time.
    4. I don't give a kitten about Daredevil. Daredevil is one elite spec trait line and Core Thief did not even come close to getting the number of core trait nerfs mesmer has got over time.

    You want to talk about Power Nerfs? Condition got hit with the nerf truck. Blinding dissipation might be an even harder nerf for the already dead Ineptitude builds since we don't know if the clones all proc blinding. Scepter 3 which is your only kill potential as a condition mirage got hit by 50% leaving condition mesmers with no good damage weapon since axe is still limp. Evasive Mirror was gutted. Like blinding disipation change sucks for power, but we don't even know if its not also a nerf for condition mirage, and even if its a buff condition mirage got gutted far harder than power in other parts of its build.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    Blinding Dissipation: This trait no longer blinds foes on the activation of each shatter skill. It will now cause Cry of Frustration to blind every target it strikes. Blindness duration is split between game modes, lasting 1.5 seconds in WvW and PvP and 3 seconds in PvE.

    Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    1. GS builds are nerfed again with Blinding dissipation - Severely nerfed. Just not in the right way that it should have. Should have been chrono line.
    2. You want to talk about worthwhile traits to condi, what about worthwhile traits for power? Master Fencer is a PvE trait. There is a reason people don't choose it in PvP and haven't since before HoT even came out.
    3. They should nerf stealth in other skills then. Why did they make stealth buffs to begin with? All the Core Class in this game are now so blatantly unbalanced that it's crazy. What do you think would happen if Elite specs were gone tomorrow? Would the game be balanced? Because that is were they need to start from again. They need to start from square one because of the disastrous changes that have accumulated over time.
    4. I don't give a kitten about Daredevil. Daredevil is one elite spec trait line and Core Thief did not even come close to getting the number of core trait nerfs mesmer has got over time.

    You want to talk about Power Nerfs? Condition got hit with the nerf truck. Blinding dissipation might be an even harder nerf for the already dead Ineptitude builds since we don't know if the clones all proc blinding. Scepter 3 which is your only kill potential as a condition mirage got hit by 50% leaving condition mesmers with no good damage weapon since axe is still limp. Evasive Mirror was gutted. Like blinding disipation change sucks for power, but we don't even know if its not also a nerf for condition mirage, and even if its a buff condition mirage got gutted far harder than power in other parts of its build.

    Yes, since you asked, I do want to talk about Power Nerfs. I don't know the best way of discussing potential, so I'm just going to use metabattle. However, if you have a better suggestion, let me know.

    Every single change you listed besides the scepter 3 change is or is potentially a power nerf, oh wait! I guess they only nerfed the power damage of scepter too. Power mesmer has been in a fairly poor position since 2015. It has not been in a meta position for about 4 years now. 4 Kitten, Puppy years. Right now the top power build on metabattle is rated as good. Not meta, not great, but good. The last time a power build was ranked as great (the exact same position condi builds are currently ranked) instead of good, it was directly nerfed by the devs on March 27, 2018. No compensation for a power build was made based on the nerfs. Comparing Condi to Power directly is like comparing apples to oranges. Condi was in a much better state before it was severely nerfed (into the 'great' category I might add) last patch. Power mesmer was ranked as good before this patch and guess what? It got nerfed again. So, as soon as condi mesmer remains out of the meta for 4 years, is nerfed out of the 'great' category, and then is nerfed again (multiple times) while it is in the 'good' category, then, and only then, will we find a better comparison between the two. If you think condi got hit by the nerf truck, then power likewise got hit by the nerf truck. However, the difference is that power mesmer was already dead, rotting roadkill sitting on the sunny road constantly getting bombarded by one truck after another aimed at condi.

    Point being, even if the new blinding suggestions works in the good way we suggest, the change was made, once again, without even giving an after thought about power builds. Not only that, but it would STILL only be useful precisely when combined with Ineptitude, cutting down on build diversity.
    No matter how you word it, this is a bad change that shouldn't have even been suggested
    and I sill stand by that statement.

    Now, can someone please suggest a new MMO style game with a phycological class?

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    https://media.giphy.com/media/5nohAcRYylndnrylWi/giphy.gif

    1shot PEPEGA

    Deadshot amulet lol. Literally an amulet with no power. One sages I see 5-7k crits. On Illusions Chronobunk I've seen 16k crits.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    I was expecting the worse when I read what the reason for the design changes were but nothing here affects how I play Mesmer in PvE so for me its better then pretty much every patch post Mesmer rework.

    PvP nerfs are to be expected because of the pathological hatred of Mesmer's from PvP whiners.

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    https://media.giphy.com/media/5nohAcRYylndnrylWi/giphy.gif

    1shot PEPEGA

    Deadshot amulet lol. One sages I see 5-7k crits. On Illusions Chronobunk I've seen 16k crits.

    yes but he said " condi weapon "

    on chrono it's not " condI " its kitten ferocity and power lmao

    it still does TIMES less damage than other skills such as RAPID FIRE WITH ITS DOUBLE TIMES FASTER ATK SPEED AND DOUBLE RANGE

    XD

    never seen a developer kitten enough to nerf a value by 50%, what goes by 600%+ which is what mirrors got lmao. The mirror nerf was more deserved but it was still too much. The scepter nerf , however, was completely undeserved
    the only reason chrono did damage was because of might stacks and ferocity

    also if you're trying to convince me that 5k damage on a 3 sec cast time skill is too much you're going to have to try harder because it's a kitten joke in comparison to the damage other classes do

    are you aware that a revenant can do 20k damage with unrelenting assault? iframe skill btw

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    I'm glad they took my confounding suggestions idea but we suggested tons of other stuff that could use a buff...
    Also it needs an ICD otherwise chronos will abuse it.

    The degenerate

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    Master of Manipulation: Instead of granting the mirror effect, this trait now grants superspeed for 3 seconds. This superspeed is also applied to allies affected by your manipulation skills.

    HALLELUJAH!

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

    What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

    Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki
    "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."
    You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.
    However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.
    Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    https://media.giphy.com/media/5nohAcRYylndnrylWi/giphy.gif

    1shot PEPEGA

    this patch is complete kitten, arena net just showed once again that they;re just about the most clueless and incompetent developer out there and the only reason their game was a success was because of GW1 and because of luck and maybe perhaps because the initial teams that worked on the game actually had some clue, unlike the clowns working in anet right now

    ook well if we were going by gw1 standards if i recall mesmer would be something similar to a support with fairly minimal damage.....

    it just feels like targeted and biased nerfs. In top 100 in spvp there are like 3 mirages

    accept when anet does balance changes its not focused on only the top players not to mention spvp is team based not single player based invalidating the results even more. There could be several more skilled mirages out there than many of those other 100 players but cant get there because spvp is a team based game and your rating will rise and fall based on your teams success.

    to use this as a argument to justify if something should or should not be nerfed practically has no consensus.

    if you wanna argue that mesmer was too strong cus of powercreep or w/e then you should make the argument for the other classes as well but we only see mesmer nerfs

    Mesmer was no doubt strong and it still is going to be strong its just going to now have more risk involved with its reward. Mesmer was un fun to fight regardless of it was strong or not or in the hands of a skilled player or not and thats the issue here. Scourge, Reaper, Daredevil, Holo, Firebrand, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result. Mesmer by no means should be an exception here sorry. You can argue that not everyone finds mesmer unfun to fight but i know for a fact a large majority of people do.

    there's no nerfs on ranger or warrior or holo or revenant or thief or anything, they just keep getting buffed while mesmer keeps getting gutted despite already being the least played class in the game(in plat3/legendary at least, which is what the game is for me)

    Because they already had them mesmer has been slipping through the cracks for who knows how many patches. in the past half of mesmer nerfs were not even realistic nerfs. (nerfing the strike damage on a condition weapon like the axe when the condis on the axe are over tuned is not a realistic nerf)

    the patch notes are a complete joke overall, they literally don't address a single issue with the game. These people must be trolling at this point, the last 2 patches have to be the most kitten kitten ive seen in recent years , grats

    These are some of the most solid notes ive seen and i dont know if anet restructuring and focusing on gw2 had anything to do with it or not but they are now actively pursuing things that people have been asking for while now. (see berserker update and rework to necro focus 4)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    https://media.giphy.com/media/5nohAcRYylndnrylWi/giphy.gif

    1shot PEPEGA

    this patch is complete kitten, arena net just showed once again that they;re just about the most clueless and incompetent developer out there and the only reason their game was a success was because of GW1 and because of luck and maybe perhaps because the initial teams that worked on the game actually had some clue, unlike the clowns working in anet right now

    ook well if we were going by gw1 standards if i recall mesmer would be something similar to a support with fairly minimal damage.....

    it just feels like targeted and biased nerfs. In top 100 in spvp there are like 3 mirages

    Mesmer was no doubt strong and it still is going to be strong its just going to now have more risk involved with its reward. Mesmer was un fun to fight regardless of it was strong or not or in the hands of a skilled player or not and thats the issue here. Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

    ?

    Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

    Are we playing the same game?

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    So, after yet another round of random nerfs... can we get our Vigor uptime back now?

    I do like the CC related changes. I also agree that shatters are bloated and I personally favour more F-specific traits. However, the change to Blinding Dissipation reads as a pretty big nerf. The change to Master of Manipulation just makes me extremly angry. It's so lazy and makes me never want to touch that trait. Mirror over Super Speed anytime.

    Now... I'm wondering... will Chronomancers actually eventually lose Distortion for CS?

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    a few of them are 100% called for anyone who thinks
    Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    was not justified is insane. A condi weapon doing 1 shot level damage on a condi build using strike damage :astonished: yehhh ok...

    https://media.giphy.com/media/5nohAcRYylndnrylWi/giphy.gif

    1shot PEPEGA

    this patch is complete kitten, arena net just showed once again that they;re just about the most clueless and incompetent developer out there and the only reason their game was a success was because of GW1 and because of luck and maybe perhaps because the initial teams that worked on the game actually had some clue, unlike the clowns working in anet right now

    ook well if we were going by gw1 standards if i recall mesmer would be something similar to a support with fairly minimal damage.....

    it just feels like targeted and biased nerfs. In top 100 in spvp there are like 3 mirages

    Mesmer was no doubt strong and it still is going to be strong its just going to now have more risk involved with its reward. Mesmer was un fun to fight regardless of it was strong or not or in the hands of a skilled player or not and thats the issue here. Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

    ?

    Holo, and soulbeast have all had unfun builds and or mechanices in the past that caused people to find them unfun and they were culled down as a result.

    Are we playing the same game?

    I specifically remember soulbeast getting quite a few pet specific nerfs in the builds they were using and holo losing free instant stability for pressing a button without any kind of skill involved. Should I continue? Or have you not been keeping up with patch notes over the months.

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total kitten. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

    What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

    Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki
    "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."
    You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.
    However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.
    Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

    I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.
    Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total kitten. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

    I mean i suppose you could be right here to a certain extent. and perhaps thats why they are doing these changes so you dont have to suffer some ungodly penally like the majority of other professions.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.
    Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    That's cause the base mesmer mechanics are total kitten. What you're giving up by taking Chrono or mirage is the trait space to boost those mechanics into something usable.

    Nah they were just lazy, probably coming next patch.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

    Minor.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    Condi chrono and chrono bunker dead.

    Maybe chrono illusions bunker will be playable with sword mainhand instead of scepter. Aside from that we are likely in a power mirage meta now. 2 second instant stuns on f3 is kitten insane.

    // Yanim

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

    It's the Minor.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

    Minor.

    I see...

    So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.
    Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    I see...

    So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.
    Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

    Well... in Power builds I don't feel like using it at the moment. Not as long as Evasive Mirror and Fencers Finesse are on the same tier.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    I just hope the new power mes build won't be a mantra spammer.

    // Yanim

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

    What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

    Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki
    "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."
    You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.
    However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.
    Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

    I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

    I severely disagree. If blinding dissipation in its former state was around for 4 years than there was no need to change it, than there are much better ways to do it now. Additionally, there is not a firm confirmation at all that damage avoidance from dueling is a problem. Do you think it is a problem with core mesmer? If not, than NO, this is a terrible change.

    Mirage evasion was already nerfed. Condi mirage was already out of the meta picture, with the nerf to scepter it would have been fine. There was lots of things they could have done instead of nerfing blinding dissipation and core mesmer. In fact, there was a whole post dedicated to these types of changes and how to handle them. Additionally, why would they want to nerf condi mirage with a trait and then buff it with the same trait? Its potentially an even match for condi (not a buff or nerf) but a dead on nerf for anything else.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    I just hope the new power mes build won't be a mantra spammer.

    There is nothing new that improves 'spamming' Mantras. If anything, they improved Mesmers overall lockdown abilities. Which I'm all for.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

    Minor.

    I see...

    So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.
    Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

    We still don't know if the clones are also procing blind allowing you to get 8 confusion stacks off ineptitude.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

    Sorry but im critically thinking here.
    Druid cannot will that -20% back into existence
    You can simply press the "s" key and dodge to dodge backwards :+1: While being able to cast skills that would normally be interrupted if other professions tried to do this. :astonished:

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    If -20% stats on pet counts for Druids, I feel like this easily counts for Mirage.

    Considering they nerfed Mirage Cloak to .75s despite that, I doubt it.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    blinding dissipation with ineptitude will now make your f2 shatter hit for 16 confusion, quite a buff i'd say

    I don't play condi. So this does nothing for me.
    I guess for a condi chrono this would be great.
    Condi Mirage cant survive without Chaos so this rules them out too. ( since they gutted dueling vigor generation and Chaos traits are the only worthwhile source of vigor left)

    Edit: Guess I should specifiy.
    More power mes nerfs. As Evasive mirror in light of the resurgence of LB rangers in WvW is already annoying enough. The blinding dissipation change to me is more annoying when fighting things that stick to you in melee, like a thief or warr.
    But owell, like I said, I'll just be away for a while longer until something changes for the better

    Edit 2: and before I forget- You realize ineptitude competes with DE- which is vastly more superior.
    Like without question DE is Alpha of that trait line

    Condi Mirage already takes Chaos and Dueling. With Evasive Mirror gutted, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude might be worthwhile again with minimal changes.

    Still I think the nerf to scepter will finally push the last few condition mirages onto GS Mirage or Chrono.

    Mass Invisibility and Master of Manipulation were finally reworked but Mass Invisibility even buffed is still worse than Elixir S and Sneak Gyro by a significant margin.

    If you feel bad, remember Daredevil which is already not doing so hot, got a kick in the teeth with Steal's range cut in half when taking Daredevil (Though it becomes unblockable)

    About Daredevil, is it not a trait who changes your steal to swipe becoming 600 range unblockable?
    If you take that trait that happens, unless they made it a minor of daredevil and cannot be changed.

    Minor.

    I see...

    So now the middle tree of Dueling in mesmer will be a kinda dead tree unless you run condi inept.
    Maybe people will use sword/sword and the sword reduction trait which is kinda meh and irrelevant...

    We still don't know if the clones are also procing blind allowing you to get 8 confusion stacks off ineptitude.

    They will ill bet 100$

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    I just hope the new power mes build won't be a mantra spammer.

    There is nothing new that improves 'spamming' Mantras. If anything, they improved Mesmers overall lockdown abilities. Which I'm all for.

    Of course there is, daze mantra buff + confounding suggestions buff.

    // Yanim

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.
    Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?
    Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

    I don't really care if you think it counts or doesn't. However, if it doesn't, than it is an unintentional bug that needs to be fixed ASAP

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    Sorry but im critically thinking here.
    Druid cannot will that -20% back into existence
    You can simply press the "s" key and dodge to dodge backwards :+1: While being able to cast skills that would normally be interrupted if other professions tried to do this. :astonished:

    I just feel different.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Considering they nerfed Mirage Cloak to .75s despite that, I doubt it.

    Druid has been nerfed several times in the past. How is this an argument against Mirage?
    While Mirage Cloak has some benefits it clearly has disadvantages as well.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Of course there is, daze mantra buff + confounding suggestions buff.

    The changes don't increase the frequency, though. Which hardly makes it any more spammable than before.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    Was a bit too strong in pvp only when combined with alot of the other defensive / sustain tools offered by mesmer / mirage. Top this ontop of the current mesmer play style and it makes for a strong combo thats very unfun to fight... most people will tell you mesmer in general is no fun to fight and its about time anet started listening. They do it for every other class when it becomes unfun to fight mesmer should not be an exception here.

    What mirage defensive tools? 2 seconds of vigor on shatter? Even if we say this is true, why nerf core mesmer?

    Mesmer theme description from gw2 wiki
    "They weave deception magic that seeks to confound, disorient and dumbfound their enemies."
    You won't like every class you play against, especially if the reason why is displayed in the class description.
    However, this class description is also why I enjoyed playing the class in the first place.
    Blinding dissipation has been around for almost forever now, that was not the problem and you know it.

    I agree blinding was not specifically by itself a problem the problem was it layered on top of many other tools, do i think it was the specific tool that needed to be hit... maybe not really but in any case anyone who thinks being able to attack while chaining several defenses together such as evades, mobility blinks, blinds, and invuln, dazes, and drop targets both from skills and stealth..... i mean yeah... Thats quite a bit of stuff going on I think blinding dissipation was a small price to pay compared to some of the other tools they could have hit :unamused:

    I severely disagree. If blinding dissipation in its former state was around for 4 years than there was no need to change it. Mirage evasion was already nerfed. Condi mirage was already out of the meta picture, with the nerf to scepter it would have been fine. There was lots of things they could have done instead of nerfing blinding dissipation. In fact, there was a whole post dedicated to these types of changes and how to handle them. Additionally, why would they want to nerf condi mirage with a trait and then buff it with the same trait? Its potentially an even match for condi (not a buff or nerf) but a dead on nerf for anything else.

    Thats fine to not agree but...
    The evasion nerf only happened after anet admitted that mirage evasion was overtuned on purpose compared to the standard dodge. Ideally your dodge became what it should have been from the start this is not ideally a crazy nerf its just another thing that slipped through the cracks that shouldnt have been there to start with.
    As I said i doubt the blind by itself was the issue. it was likely the blind ontop of everything else. They could have picked anything and chose to pick something old instead of something new. We might not ever know specifically why they picked this old trait. Just because something is not been touched for 4 years does not mean it should never be touched either.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.
    Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?
    Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

    I don't really care if you think it counts or doesn't. However, if it doesn't, than it is an unintentional bug that needs to be fixed ASAP

    Trust me, I know.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Also I think we can expect similar sacrifices to core shatters when picking Mirage or Chronomancer with what they did for Daredevil, Druid, and Berserker probably the balance patch after this one. If they're making changes like getting rid of F1 burst skills for warriror outside of Berserkering, cutting Steal's Range by 50%, and nerfing Druid Pet Stats there is almost certainly something in the pipeline coming for Chronomancer and Mirage that wasn't ready for this particular release. So brace yourselves for that.

    im actually glad you pointed this out it had not occured to me that several professions dont give up anything for taking an elite spec.
    Such as scourge giving up shroud, reaper having increased life force cost over time, weaver no longer being able to rapid switch attuments, tempest having longer increased cd for overloading an attunment... and so on
    Chrono and and Mirage didnt really seem to give up anything and just got pure bonuses tapped onto their base mesmer mechanics.

    Chrono was a direct buff like many of the first elite spec. The only thing chrono gave up was significantly increased cool down on elite skills like Moa.
    Mirage gave up the ability to dodge backwards, many builds that were once viably available, viable core traits, its perception of being fun to fight against, the 'fun' involved with playing the class in the first place, its position as a top contending class in PvP, and its pride.

    im not sure the ability to dodge backwards really counts.. you could simply walk backward while dodging lets not also forget that mirage also gained the power to attack and use / channel any skill while being able to dodge which more than makes up for something as simple as "being able to dodge backwards" No other profession can do this.

    Mirage currently can only dodge sideways or strafe 135 units in a dodge time frame when other classes can go 300 units, a 55% reduction in dodge distance sideways. They are also only able to dodge 78.75 units backwards when other classes can go 300 units, a 73.75% reduction in distance?
    Math: Strafing:180 u/s X .75 sec = 135 units, Backpedaling: 105 u/s X .75 sec = 78.75 units. Dodge = 300 units. Strafing: ((300-135)/300)X100 = 55%, Backpedaling: ((300-78.75)/300)X100 = 73.75%

    I don't really care if you think it counts or doesn't. However, if it doesn't, than it is an unintentional bug that needs to be fixed ASAP

    Lets be real you wouldnt dodge backward with mirage even if it was the same distance these numbers are just going into over kill issue that is not realistic. YOU didnt lose the power to dodge backwards you just choose not to cause its more bountiful to simply attack forward knowing you wont get hit. Thats the power of being able to attack while having an instant defense and dont even get me started on dodging while under cc effects if you want to go that far as for things that should be "FIXED"

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