More Nerfs?!?! - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

More Nerfs?!?!

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  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    If you increase the CC potential of mesmers, the next whine wave will be about : mesmer is op, we can't play, always rupt and so on...

    Don't forget to add the "mesmer comes from stealth and stun and insta kill" no counter play type of whining =p

    People will whine anyway. Mesmer is in a boat with Thieves when it comes to PvP related content.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Other problem with confounding s. is that throwing in SoIllusions and continuum split will allow for broken stun uptime. It needs an ICD.

    How is this even a feasible set up? I guess you could achive such a thing. But what are you going to do with it considering half your skills will be on cooldown?

    CS us gated by the F3 CD any additional barrier will make it impractical to use.

    Not sure I follow your thought.
    Enter Cs, F3 SoI F3, throw in some clones in between for longer stun if needed, leave Cs. All your Cds except f5 are up.

    So you enter CS, stun with F3, use the 1.25s cast time SoI, stun again with F3, and leave CS. Congratulations, you've accomplished...nothing? You burnt all your clones when you entered CS, so you're not getting more time on your stun nor are you bursting with F1. You're not using other skills to burst because the only offensive instant skills mesmer has are mantras and you need to be casting SoI. So at the end of this little combo you've burnt all your clones, burnt your CS cooldown, stunned them for an additional 1.5 seconds, aaaaand that's it.

    How come you accomplished nothing?
    First of all sieze the moment, so you have more then enough time to burst in between the refreshes. And even if you didn't this is a team based game, stunlocking an opponent is a guaranteed kill for your team-mate to score.

    It doesn't necessarily do nothing, it just wouldn't do as much as you may think. In fact, it does the same or less than a 3 clone f3 shatter while using more resources.

    After you shatter for CS (which you prob need 3 or bare minimum 2 clones to pull in off to begin with), you would be left with 0 clones in continuum splint. This means stun for 1.5 sec, sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec, get out of CS, stun for 1.5 sec, Sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec. Next, Signet of Illusions has a 1.25 sec activation time. Therefore, by the time you get done casting Signet of Illus in CS (right away since you would only have .25 sec of leeway), you would max only have .25 sec of stun left on that individual. Then instant stun to combine to 1.75 sec, stun again out of CS for a total of 3.25 sec, then cast Sig of Illusions (using up another 1.25 sec, bringing it down to 2 sec of stun on the enemy, then cast F3 again to bring it up to 3.5 sec of stun. This is complicated, but by the time you get through to the part where you want to damage them then you have 3.5 sec of stun left, used CS, and used Sig of Illusions. Meanwhile if you just F3 3 clones to begin with you would have had 6 sec of stun on them instantly. This is also taking it for granted that you have computer/robot like reflexes and can press buttons literally instantly, which won't be the case.

    Even if you assume someone else is there and you are just stunning them for an ally, the CS combination without the Sig of Illusion activation times is 6 sec total again (CS, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5, CS end, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5). Therefore, you are using CS, Signet of Illusions, and denying yourself attack time or waisting time casting Signet of illusions when you could 3 clone instant f3 for 6 seconds of stun to begin with.

    Now, especially with the CS combo, at higher level play people are going to stun break out of that instantly and you are likely to do 0 damage to them yourself. They are also likely to stun break out of the normal multi clone F3. Now, since it is instant, you will at least do some damage before they stun break. However, especially for lower skilled players or players who don't bring a stun break, this is still going to be a huge problem that will lead to a lot of complaints. I'm not saying it won't be a problem at higher skill levels. However, in lower skill levels it will likely be a disaster that instantly spates in many cries.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    If you increase the CC potential of mesmers, the next whine wave will be about : mesmer is op, we can't play, always rupt and so on...

    Don't forget to add the "mesmer comes from stealth and stun and insta kill" no counter play type of whining =p

    People will whine anyway. Mesmer is in a boat with Thieves when it comes to PvP related content.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Other problem with confounding s. is that throwing in SoIllusions and continuum split will allow for broken stun uptime. It needs an ICD.

    How is this even a feasible set up? I guess you could achive such a thing. But what are you going to do with it considering half your skills will be on cooldown?

    CS us gated by the F3 CD any additional barrier will make it impractical to use.

    Not sure I follow your thought.
    Enter Cs, F3 SoI F3, throw in some clones in between for longer stun if needed, leave Cs. All your Cds except f5 are up.

    So you enter CS, stun with F3, use the 1.25s cast time SoI, stun again with F3, and leave CS. Congratulations, you've accomplished...nothing? You burnt all your clones when you entered CS, so you're not getting more time on your stun nor are you bursting with F1. You're not using other skills to burst because the only offensive instant skills mesmer has are mantras and you need to be casting SoI. So at the end of this little combo you've burnt all your clones, burnt your CS cooldown, stunned them for an additional 1.5 seconds, aaaaand that's it.

    How come you accomplished nothing?
    First of all sieze the moment, so you have more then enough time to burst in between the refreshes. And even if you didn't this is a team based game, stunlocking an opponent is a guaranteed kill for your team-mate to score.

    It doesn't necessarily do nothing, it just doesn't do as much as you may think. In fact, it does the same or less than a 3 clone f3 shatter while using more resources.

    After you shatter for CS (which you prob need 3 or bare minimum 2 clones to pull in off to begin with), you would be left with 0 clones in continuum splint. This means stun for 1.5 sec, sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec, get out of CS, stun for 1.5 sec, Sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec. Next, Signet of Illusions has a 1.25 sec activation time. Therefore, by the time you get done casting Signet of Illus in CS (right away since you would only have .25 sec of leeway), you would max only have .25 sec of stun left on that individual. Then instant stun to combine to 1.75 sec, stun again out of CS for a total of 3.25 sec, then cast Sig of Illusions (using up another 1.25 sec, bringing it down to 2 sec of stun on the enemy, then cast F3 again to bring it up to 3.5 sec of stun. This is complicated, but by the time you get through to the part where you want to damage them then you have 3.5 sec of stun left, used CS, and used Sig of Illusions. Meanwhile if you just F3 3 clones to begin with you would have had 6 sec of stun on them instantly. This is also taking it for granted that you have computer/robot like reflexes and can press buttons literally instantly, which won't be the case.

    Even if you assume someone else is there and you are just stunning them for an ally, the CS combination without the Sig of Illusion activation times is 6 sec total again (CS, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5, CS end, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5). Therefore, you are using CS, Signet of Illusions, and denying yourself attack time or waisting time casting Signet of illusions when you could 3 clone instant f3 for 6 seconds of stun to begin with.

    Now, especially with the CS combo, at higher level play people are going to stun break out of that instantly and you are likely to do 0 damage to them yourself. They are also likely to stun break out of the normal multi clone F3. Now, since it is instant, you will at least do some damage before they stun break. However, especially for lower skilled players or players who don't bring a stun break, this is still going to be a huge problem that will lead to a lot of complaints.

    The thing of doing it on cd is that your cds will reset, you'll get more of a csplit F3 than of a 3 clones F3, like you said if people stun break out of F3, with a 3 clones f3 you win nothing, with a csplit f3 you still have multiple stuns avaliable. And as a chrono you have more stuns avaliable than F3, not hard to bait a stun break at all.
    In short: the purpose of diversion turned into stun that I purposed was to avoid multiple sources of stun in a short amount of time, without an ICD, that purpose is still defeated. And it will eventually get nerfed again into a useless trait such as the previous one. Better get a short ICD now than a useless trait in some patches forward.

    The degenerate

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    If you increase the CC potential of mesmers, the next whine wave will be about : mesmer is op, we can't play, always rupt and so on...

    Don't forget to add the "mesmer comes from stealth and stun and insta kill" no counter play type of whining =p

    People will whine anyway. Mesmer is in a boat with Thieves when it comes to PvP related content.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Other problem with confounding s. is that throwing in SoIllusions and continuum split will allow for broken stun uptime. It needs an ICD.

    How is this even a feasible set up? I guess you could achive such a thing. But what are you going to do with it considering half your skills will be on cooldown?

    CS us gated by the F3 CD any additional barrier will make it impractical to use.

    Not sure I follow your thought.
    Enter Cs, F3 SoI F3, throw in some clones in between for longer stun if needed, leave Cs. All your Cds except f5 are up.

    So you enter CS, stun with F3, use the 1.25s cast time SoI, stun again with F3, and leave CS. Congratulations, you've accomplished...nothing? You burnt all your clones when you entered CS, so you're not getting more time on your stun nor are you bursting with F1. You're not using other skills to burst because the only offensive instant skills mesmer has are mantras and you need to be casting SoI. So at the end of this little combo you've burnt all your clones, burnt your CS cooldown, stunned them for an additional 1.5 seconds, aaaaand that's it.

    How come you accomplished nothing?
    First of all sieze the moment, so you have more then enough time to burst in between the refreshes. And even if you didn't this is a team based game, stunlocking an opponent is a guaranteed kill for your team-mate to score.

    It doesn't necessarily do nothing, it just doesn't do as much as you may think. In fact, it does the same or less than a 3 clone f3 shatter while using more resources.

    After you shatter for CS (which you prob need 3 or bare minimum 2 clones to pull in off to begin with), you would be left with 0 clones in continuum splint. This means stun for 1.5 sec, sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec, get out of CS, stun for 1.5 sec, Sig of Illus, stun for 1.5 sec. Next, Signet of Illusions has a 1.25 sec activation time. Therefore, by the time you get done casting Signet of Illus in CS (right away since you would only have .25 sec of leeway), you would max only have .25 sec of stun left on that individual. Then instant stun to combine to 1.75 sec, stun again out of CS for a total of 3.25 sec, then cast Sig of Illusions (using up another 1.25 sec, bringing it down to 2 sec of stun on the enemy, then cast F3 again to bring it up to 3.5 sec of stun. This is complicated, but by the time you get through to the part where you want to damage them then you have 3.5 sec of stun left, used CS, and used Sig of Illusions. Meanwhile if you just F3 3 clones to begin with you would have had 6 sec of stun on them instantly. This is also taking it for granted that you have computer/robot like reflexes and can press buttons literally instantly, which won't be the case.

    Even if you assume someone else is there and you are just stunning them for an ally, the CS combination without the Sig of Illusion activation times is 6 sec total again (CS, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5, CS end, F3 for 1.5, Sig, F3 for 1.5). Therefore, you are using CS, Signet of Illusions, and denying yourself attack time or waisting time casting Signet of illusions when you could 3 clone instant f3 for 6 seconds of stun to begin with.

    Now, especially with the CS combo, at higher level play people are going to stun break out of that instantly and you are likely to do 0 damage to them yourself. They are also likely to stun break out of the normal multi clone F3. Now, since it is instant, you will at least do some damage before they stun break. However, especially for lower skilled players or players who don't bring a stun break, this is still going to be a huge problem that will lead to a lot of complaints.

    The thing of doing it on cd is that your cds will reset, you'll get more of a csplit F3 than of a 3 clones F3, like you said if people stun break out of F3, with a 3 clones f3 you win nothing, with a csplit f3 you still have multiple stuns avaliable. And as a chrono you have more stuns avaliable than F3, not hard to bait a stun break at all.
    In short: the purpose of diversion turned into stun that I purposed was to avoid multiple sources of stun in a short amount of time, without an ICD, that purpose is still defeated. And it will eventually get nerfed again into a useless trait such as the previous one. Better get a short ICD now than a useless trait in some patches forward.

    Ya, I get the multi-spaced stun idea. However, you might as well leave 'casting Signet of Illusions in CS' out of it then since you won't catch anyone off guard with it and it would waste time. It would be more like CS/F3 after almost instantly (no clones needed) --> do damage/fight -->F3 --> do damage/fight -->Signet of Illusions -->F3 -->do damage/fight. That makes sense. However, before March 2018, the cool down of confounding suggestions was down to 5 seconds. Therefore, people could have done something like this, waiting 5 sec between F3s. However, that is because instead of using such a combination, they used mantra of distractions instead. Ya, I think something about the trait is going to change or not turn out like how we expect regardless.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wish they would have done something different reworking Evasive Mirror instead of slapping a 10s icd on top of conditional "on evade"... It's too convoluted to predict and is just going to end up being "luck" relfects that may or may not be influential in a fight. Way to make a trait useless.

    And the changing all manipulations to superspeed is kind of lame/unimaginitive. Not happy about this one, they could have done far better.

    Aren't they great at doing that?
    They just keep screwing things over and over making it less choices to make, you go that trait line pick this and this and that, that is it.

    Also for Mesmer community pleeeeeeeeease people stop pointing at things to nerf for mesmer, every time mesmers point out at something "they should have nerf that or this" we end up getting that thing nerfed/killed next patch without getting anything useful of the other things mentioned =/

    Dune cloak, rework that kitten trait.
    Elusive mind, rework that kitten trait.
    Egotism, rework that kitten trait.
    So many things needs to be reworked or buffed.

    To be fair, there was some buffs/Quality of Life changes this patch. They just didn't rework everything that needed to be done and didn't follow any of the suggestions on what to nerf or how. Which is insanely dissapointing compared to how much mesmer needs a thorough rework.

    I am very excited to attempt trying out master of misdirection now that it won't reveal you when using mass invisibility.
    Confounding Suggestions was also a good change that was called for before the trait was nerfed into a daze % increase. However, I think this will be poorly thought out if it works with every single clone shattered. I originally thought it would be a 1.5 sec stun, period. If the trait works with clones and stacks stun then it will just be bagging for a nerf from the screaming crowds that follow. It probably needs like a 3 or 4 sec Internal cool down just so the clones don't stack.

    I'm certain all clones now stun. Especially since they mentioned how they wanted mesmer shatter traits to be condensed to only effect one shatter, but to effect in a very powerful way. I think it'll be tuned down to 1s very, VERY quickly post patch because 1.5s stun is going to be nuts.

    Mmm, if this is the case, then you would definitely be right in power coming ahead. I am just now finding myself scared shitless in how this will turn out if this is the case, particularly in future patches. With 3 clones hitting, that would be 6 sec of stun alone. With Superior Sigil of Paralyzation, it would be 7.8 seconds. I know that it a perfectly set up 3 clone hit, but I mean . . . ya, it will be 1 sec in no time if this is the case.

    Past several mesmer balance patches over the year have turned me into a pessimistic, scared weini
    By the way, appologies for not thinking about the trait this way earlier. Another bad day for me. The descriptions are just vague and when reading the initial notes, I took the more pessimistic approach with both Confounding suggestions and Blinding Dissipation.

    The new internal cool down on evasive mirror is insanely long still. If BD works with Ineptitude, who would take evasive mirror? Who would take evasive mirror even if it didn't work with Ineptitude? However, ya, I think it makes sense if both BD and CS worked the same way.

    Stun doesn't stack, it overwrites. You will never get anywhere close to 6-8 seconds stun, in PvP 2-4 is realistic.

    (Though I predict they will lower stun duration to 0.75 / 1 sec, or add an icd).

    // Yanim

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wish they would have done something different reworking Evasive Mirror instead of slapping a 10s icd on top of conditional "on evade"... It's too convoluted to predict and is just going to end up being "luck" relfects that may or may not be influential in a fight. Way to make a trait useless.

    And the changing all manipulations to superspeed is kind of lame/unimaginitive. Not happy about this one, they could have done far better.

    Aren't they great at doing that?
    They just keep screwing things over and over making it less choices to make, you go that trait line pick this and this and that, that is it.

    Also for Mesmer community pleeeeeeeeease people stop pointing at things to nerf for mesmer, every time mesmers point out at something "they should have nerf that or this" we end up getting that thing nerfed/killed next patch without getting anything useful of the other things mentioned =/

    Dune cloak, rework that kitten trait.
    Elusive mind, rework that kitten trait.
    Egotism, rework that kitten trait.
    So many things needs to be reworked or buffed.

    To be fair, there was some buffs/Quality of Life changes this patch. They just didn't rework everything that needed to be done and didn't follow any of the suggestions on what to nerf or how. Which is insanely dissapointing compared to how much mesmer needs a thorough rework.

    I am very excited to attempt trying out master of misdirection now that it won't reveal you when using mass invisibility.
    Confounding Suggestions was also a good change that was called for before the trait was nerfed into a daze % increase. However, I think this will be poorly thought out if it works with every single clone shattered. I originally thought it would be a 1.5 sec stun, period. If the trait works with clones and stacks stun then it will just be bagging for a nerf from the screaming crowds that follow. It probably needs like a 3 or 4 sec Internal cool down just so the clones don't stack.

    I'm certain all clones now stun. Especially since they mentioned how they wanted mesmer shatter traits to be condensed to only effect one shatter, but to effect in a very powerful way. I think it'll be tuned down to 1s very, VERY quickly post patch because 1.5s stun is going to be nuts.

    Mmm, if this is the case, then you would definitely be right in power coming ahead. I am just now finding myself scared shitless in how this will turn out if this is the case, particularly in future patches. With 3 clones hitting, that would be 6 sec of stun alone. With Superior Sigil of Paralyzation, it would be 7.8 seconds. I know that it a perfectly set up 3 clone hit, but I mean . . . ya, it will be 1 sec in no time if this is the case.

    Past several mesmer balance patches over the year have turned me into a pessimistic, scared weini
    By the way, appologies for not thinking about the trait this way earlier. Another bad day for me. The descriptions are just vague and when reading the initial notes, I took the more pessimistic approach with both Confounding suggestions and Blinding Dissipation.

    The new internal cool down on evasive mirror is insanely long still. If BD works with Ineptitude, who would take evasive mirror? Who would take evasive mirror even if it didn't work with Ineptitude? However, ya, I think it makes sense if both BD and CS worked the same way.

    Stun doesn't stack, it overwrites. You will never get anywhere close to 6-8 seconds stun, in PvP 2-4 is realistic.

    (Though I predict they will lower stun duration to 0.75 / 1 sec, or add an icd).

    Oh kitten, thank you. I didn't know that. Ya, that changes things a lot. Shatters happen fairly quickly unless the clone distances happen to be stacked. I guess, technically you would get more stun duration using Signet of Illusions in Continuum split to continually overwrite stun durations then.

  • The dodge for Mirage is its own trade-off, IMO. Casting skills while dodging, but more difficult to move around!

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    The dodge for Mirage is its own trade-off, IMO. Casting skills while dodging, but more difficult to move around!

    I agree, since the nerf especially - and if they're going to push for all elite specs to have tradeoffs, mirage already has this tradeoff - dodge whenever you like but restricted movement compared with core.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    Ho and no more master of manipulation reflect bonus on miror heal mean you can't counter thief ulti with it.

  • Devs changing class's strength, making it play totally different and could just as well be another class is one of the main reasons i quit most MMO's.
    When what i fell in love with is changed, and every time i come back i want play that i loved but then reminded it's changed and gone and then so will I.^

    I loved warlock on wow i played wow since original beta but it was a completely different experience to play lock 4-5 years down the line, original strengths changed or made irrelevant as game changed and now i haven't played warlock since because it just reminds me of all the failure and nerfs and suffering it went through over the years.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    I do find this saddening and amusing even though mesmer and ele are two of my least played classes. I want to insert the anet motto of "play as you like" and then for ele, mesmer, and thief now make a pot hole and then show 70 people running over the pot hole. Then a guardian, necro, warrior, and rev blowing bubbles at each other having a great time. So bubbles good and pot holes bad so don't be a pot hole new anet motto.

  • Teefy.5016Teefy.5016 Member ✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    Really want to play CI or PU but even with buff to mass invis the stealth uptime/frequency might not be enough.

    We’ll have to see how the new changes measure up against other class nerfs.

    Might be blasphemy but after hating on mantra spam for a while I actually grew to like it.

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that. Evasive mirror on a 10s cd is obviously worthless and does anybody believe scepter can be viable without the burst option on this skill? Fix the things that are overpowered, yes. But couldn't you have redesigned these skills to be useful in some other way?

    exactly. did you really have to use a thermonuclear warhead on a skill that needed to be tuned just a bit ?

    jeez.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    Really want to play CI or PU but even with buff to mass invis the stealth uptime/frequency might not be enough.

    We’ll have to see how the new changes measure up against other class nerfs.

    Might be blasphemy but after hating on mantra spam for a while I actually grew to like it.

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that. Evasive mirror on a 10s cd is obviously worthless and does anybody believe scepter can be viable without the burst option on this skill? Fix the things that are overpowered, yes. But couldn't you have redesigned these skills to be useful in some other way?

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    Really want to play CI or PU but even with buff to mass invis the stealth uptime/frequency might not be enough.

    We’ll have to see how the new changes measure up against other class nerfs.

    Might be blasphemy but after hating on mantra spam for a while I actually grew to like it.

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that. Evasive mirror on a 10s cd is obviously worthless and does anybody believe scepter can be viable without the burst option on this skill? Fix the things that are overpowered, yes. But couldn't you have redesigned these skills to be useful in some other way?

    Honestly it looks more like a lack of resources.

    Thery were busy making drastic changes to berserker elite, providing the herald and core with major changes, designing a new elite for Druid spec. If anything, looking back at the past, they have never been able to provide major sweeping redesign of skills to all professions at the same time.

    It really looks like a temporary nerf that was necessary nonetheless. And frankly, looking at mesmer, you can’t say that only evasive mirror allowed mesmer to reflect skills. Mesmer is a profession that has access of reflect outside dueling, hell you have on demand reflect out of a utility skill.

  • Ralkuth.1456Ralkuth.1456 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that.

    I’m sure things will change after this point.
    Perhaps more nerfs to other classes to make Mesmer more relevant indirectly.
    Perhaps compensation to other skills, and we find a way to be viable again.

    In between expansions, the patches tend to be pretty budget so I don’t expect a lot. In fact, all I expect are nerfs to adjust for the next expac’s content.
    My enjoyment of the game doesn’t go away (self-adjustment) because of nerfs and I reconsider everything from the ground up with each change, looking at the whole class to decide if I want to play it in the current state.
    If I don’t, I’ll shelf it/give it a fresh lick of paint/delete and reroll until it doesn’t bother me anymore.

    I do understand we tend to hold onto a build and a playstyle that gives us success, but if it doesn’t give us the success we expect anymore, then it is pointless to hold onto a basis that doesn’t provide success.
    In that light though, petitioning for change rollback is a reasonable action to take so that the basis of success is restored.

    That said, Scepter was clunky, and overbuffing its damage was boring. Nerfing by overnerfing damage was also tragically boring.

    Player of distinguishing mediocrity (S5: G3, S6: P1, S17: P1).
    Carrying enemy team since 2012.
    "Multiclass implies you can actually play the class" - A Certain Royalty, on Twitch

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    Really want to play CI or PU but even with buff to mass invis the stealth uptime/frequency might not be enough.

    We’ll have to see how the new changes measure up against other class nerfs.

    Might be blasphemy but after hating on mantra spam for a while I actually grew to like it.

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that. Evasive mirror on a 10s cd is obviously worthless and does anybody believe scepter can be viable without the burst option on this skill? Fix the things that are overpowered, yes. But couldn't you have redesigned these skills to be useful in some other way?

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:
    Really want to play CI or PU but even with buff to mass invis the stealth uptime/frequency might not be enough.

    We’ll have to see how the new changes measure up against other class nerfs.

    Might be blasphemy but after hating on mantra spam for a while I actually grew to like it.

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that. Evasive mirror on a 10s cd is obviously worthless and does anybody believe scepter can be viable without the burst option on this skill? Fix the things that are overpowered, yes. But couldn't you have redesigned these skills to be useful in some other way?

    Honestly it looks more like a lack of resources.

    Thery were busy making drastic changes to berserker elite, providing the herald and core with major changes, designing a new elite for Druid spec. If anything, looking back at the past, they have never been able to provide major sweeping redesign of skills to all professions at the same time.

    It really looks like a temporary nerf that was necessary nonetheless. And frankly, looking at mesmer, you can’t say that only evasive mirror allowed mesmer to reflect skills. Mesmer is a profession that has access of reflect outside dueling, hell you have on demand reflect out of a utility skill.

    Like I said, redesign the skill. The problem isn't the loss of reflect. It's making a formerly useful (overpowered) trait into a completely worthless version of itself. How about giving us something to replace it that isn't overpowered? If mesmer has enough access to reflect, then give us something else. But to break it and leave it (likely for months or years to come) is...well, it's exactly what we've come to expect from this development team, unfortunately.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ralkuth.1456 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    I'm most disappointed with the change to evasive mirror and the nerf to scepter 3. While both were necessary, it shows a real lack of creativity and foresight on the part of the devs to simply break these skills to the point of irrelevancy and leave it at that.

    I’m sure things will change after this point.
    Perhaps more nerfs to other classes to make Mesmer more relevant indirectly.
    Perhaps compensation to other skills, and we find a way to be viable again.

    In between expansions, the patches tend to be pretty budget so I don’t expect a lot. In fact, all I expect are nerfs to adjust for the next expac’s content.
    My enjoyment of the game doesn’t go away (self-adjustment) because of nerfs and I reconsider everything from the ground up with each change, looking at the whole class to decide if I want to play it in the current state.
    If I don’t, I’ll shelf it/give it a fresh lick of paint/delete and reroll until it doesn’t bother me anymore.

    I do understand we tend to hold onto a build and a playstyle that gives us success, but if it doesn’t give us the success we expect anymore, then it is pointless to hold onto a basis that doesn’t provide success.
    In that light though, petitioning for change rollback is a reasonable action to take so that the basis of success is restored.

    That said, Scepter was clunky, and overbuffing its damage was boring. Nerfing by overnerfing damage was also tragically boring.

    Not to worry! I already have my plan in place to take advantage of other changes that are being rolled in that do improve upon formerly worthless skills (e.g. the changes to MoM and mass invis). But I doubt anyone will be surprised if virtually no one is using scepter or evasive mirror after this patch. It's a shame they couldn't give those the mass invis/MoM treatment as well.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh kitten I just realised this is happening today... :open_mouth:

    The thing with reflects is not only are Anet going to perform this completely lazy sledgehammer nerf to Evasive Mirror, they are also removing reflect from Master of Manipulation - standard procedure for nerfing anything... too much reflect = lets destroy almost all of it rather than scale it back.

    Who in their right minds would trait Focus over RI with Inspiration anyway, and Feedback is extremely situational skill.

    So we go from reflect spamming overload, to pretty much nothing in practice - and not only that but unpredictable luck based in the case of EM where it will be impossible to know exactly when it is off cooldown each time...

    I am going ultra casual and enjoying the weather. Hopefully they sort it out within the next 6 months.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    Yeah as expected - Evasive Mirror = dead.

    I can't understand anyone saying this is a good thing. Nerfing something into irrelevance is not balancing, it's just lazy band aid fix to make something so bad as to be pointless, so nobody uses it - again reducing any scope for variety.

    Just like Elusive Mind, they may as well have simply deleted/disabled the trait which would have the same effect as now. Literally no point taking it, its that bad.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    I am going ultra casual and enjoying the weather. Hopefully they sort it out within the next 6 months.

    Same, I've uninstalled GW2. There's just no mesmer build left that I enjoy playing that's up to par with other class's broken kitten that went untouched. No reason for me to be masochistic, so... guess I'm gone for a while.

    YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

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