Scepter nerfs — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Scepter nerfs

Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭

Illusionary Counter: This skill now uses an 8-second cooldown in all game modes.
Confusing Images: The physical damage of this skill has been split and reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.

So, to me, this makes scepter pretty much kitten-tier.

YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

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Comments

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    Scepter is flawed from a design perspective, constantly increasing the damage of 3 was a weird way to go around 'fixing' it.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    Increase the channel duration were a better fix IMO but whatever.
    And don't start saying scepter 3 is OP when many other class dps spec with same gear aren't really far away from this output.

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Increase the channel duration were a better fix IMO but whatever.
    And don't start saying scepter 3 is OP when many other class dps spec with same gear aren't really far away from this output.

    Scepter 3 is incredibly clunky to use. It's difficult to use it effectively, but not in a "high skill cap" way, simply a "I have to fight game mechanics to make this work" way.

    However.

    The raw strength of the skill is off the charts. It's incredibly out of line when compared to any other ability in the game, no exceptions. Nothing else has such an obscene damage capability with minimal drawbacks. In the proper setup, you can easily crack 20k damage from a single cast of this skill into a semi-defensive build, it's absurd.

    What scepter 3 needs is mechanical changes to make it actually usable, not damage buffs that make it overpowered with zero counterplay the occasional time you manage to land it.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Scepter 3 should have its confusion stacks doubled to compensate.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    So, I solo/duo roam on a hybrid mirage (about 80% power/20% condi) for about a year. Yes, scepter 3 is/was strong. It's the only thing scepter really has/had going for it. I do ~10-12k against glassier builds if the full channel lands. Even WITH the damage it has, it's incredibly difficult to bring down or even survive certain other classes/builds that aren't getting nerfed, and I think I'm near the skill ceiling with the build. It's gotta really suck as a newer player. I guess that's what pushes many toward condi tank.

    ANYWAY,
    With & without Malicious Sorcery, the AA chain sucks. (Oh, and the ambush sucks too.)
    Without MS, Illusionary Counter is clunky. With, it's acceptable.. still slightly clunky.
    Without MS, #3 is clunky. With, it's good.

    @Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the least clunky thing on scepter.

    This nerf, imo, is going to kill hybrid/duelist style for me. Will be nearly impossible to take down invinci-scrapper. Will never bring down a really good sw/d duelist weaver. Will take FOREVER to bring down a good spellbreaker. Will be near impossible to win vs a really good DH. Killing a really good thief was already really difficult. Memebeast will still 100-0 in 1s from 1500 if I'm unlucky enough to be engaged with somebody and don't have full CDs.

    YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    nice that they do some nerf whit scepter. Now on my chrno don't feel shame when use that weapon.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    nice that they do some nerf whit scepter. Now on my chrno don't feel shame when use that weapon.

    And you feel well when another burst class 2 shot you with instants with no animations ?

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    I assume they are reducing the direct damage of it by 50%?

    Didn't they make the cast time longer and increased its damage not sure at which patch?
    they are going to reduce the cast time again now?

    Just kidding forget about any cast time reduction =p

    AND be prepared for the patch that is coming after the coming patch! they will probably nerf IH so we don't have any grandmaster trait in mirage to pick, by nerf i mean kill, they seem good at killing traits.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    And you feel well when another burst class 2 shot you with instants with no animations ?

    this is ok, we don't should always win. Someone need too run and make instant kill us.
    Aslo try use PTV set to prevent instant die..

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Magolith.9412 said:
    @Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the least clunky thing on scepter.

    Well you're not entirely wrong at that, though imo the block is fine. Regardless though, clunky mechanics should not be balanced with overpowered effects just like a long cooldown does not balance an overpowered effect. A skill that is overpowered once in a while is still overpowered and should be fixed.

    This game has a fairly large variety of solid targeting/damage output mechanics, any of which could be used to make this skill actually functional. It needs a rework like that in conjunction with a rebalancing of the damage/condition pressure that it applies.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @Magolith.9412 said:
    @Pyroatheist.9031 you say it's incredible clunky to use. It's the least clunky thing on scepter.

    Well you're not entirely wrong ahttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/Magolith.9412t that, though imo the block is fine. Regardless though, clunky mechanics should not be balanced with overpowered effects just like a long cooldown does not balance an overpowered effect. A skill that is overpowered once in a while is still overpowered and should be fixed.

    I agree. But they are nerfing the kitten out of #3 without touching the other skills. And that (imo) will make it a sub-par weapon.

    Edit: (I left out the part that makes me the most bitter..) I've already struggled with having the desire to play since Warclaw was released, but they're essentially killing the only build I really have fun with and leaving other class's broken kitten in place for even more months.

    YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:
    This game has a fairly large variety of solid targeting/damage output mechanics, any of which could be used to make this skill actually functional. It needs a rework like that in conjunction with a rebalancing of the damage/condition pressure that it applies.

    What do you think for example?

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:
    This game has a fairly large variety of solid targeting/damage output mechanics, any of which could be used to make this skill actually functional. It needs a rework like that in conjunction with a rebalancing of the damage/condition pressure that it applies.

    What do you think for example?

    Well, it depends on what they want the identify of the skill to be.

    If they're going for high impact, more similar to how it is now (pre-nerf), they could use a similar mechanic to rev hammer 5: gtaoe channel delayed hit.

    If they want something that maintains the current pulse-based output but has usable aoe, they could make it a single gtaoe pulsing skill similar to a well.

    If they're really committed to the beam attack method, they can remove the windup and increase the execution speed to <1s, to make it feel more similar to GS1 in terms of use.

    If they're committed to the long channel method, then they could make it a large cone aoe, similar to guardian torch 5.

    Lots of options for what they could do, and specifically what I mentioned are not the only ones.

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  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    I see thanks for explanations.
    But I maintain that actually scepter 3 is not that far from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws to name a spell which is very close to it. And there are other skills on other class who did nice damage too.
    With the 50% nerf it will be far below.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah scepter will be banished back into 2012-2017 once again. Wizard mirage will be trash, Chrono might be playable with sword still, and power Mirage will be good.

    // Yanim

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    I see thanks for explanations.
    But I maintain that actually scepter 3 is not that far from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Claws to name a spell which is very close to it. And there are other skills on other class who did nice damage too.
    With the 50% nerf it will be far below.

    Ghastly claws is single target and has no condition damage component.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:
    Ghastly claws is single target and has no condition damage component.

    It gives life force and can have a boost damage from 1 to 25%. (wiki say more.)
    You really consider scepter 3 as an afficient multi target skill ? (Usually the multi target is only efficient when someone is trying to rez a downed.)
    Moreover Ghastly claws has only animation on necro for visual whereas you know from where came the pink laser.

    I'm all for a rework or something based on your suggestion but I'm just pointing out that today scepter 3 ins't OP and post update it will be a "do two times clic" than team fight class to have the same damage output if they also nerf the coef by 50%...

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭

    the nerf to scepter is justified. that damage on 3 was just too much from a 12 sec skill/9 traited. i mean i cant even hit for more than 7k on holo elite laser on 75 sec cd but its okay to have scepter hitting for the same or more on 5 times shorter cd? i do know laser is cc/unblockable. im only talking about the damage here.
    altho i also can see chrono getting dropped in pvp with this nerf. only thing its good for after this is being scrapper clone.
    but as someone also said, dont overbuff the kitten outta it if its clunky to use. rework the skill to something usefull instead. like add more confusion as someone suggested.
    and make it less clunky.. the overbuffing of dmg was the wrong way to make it viable to begin with

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @toxic.3648 said:
    the nerf to scepter is justified. that damage on 3 was just too much from a 12 sec skill/9 traited. i mean i cant even hit for more than 7k on holo elite laser on 75 sec cd but its okay to have scepter hitting for the same or more on 5 times shorter cd? i do know laser is cc/unblockable. im only talking about the damage here.

    How it was too much ? You can 3k+ auto with your holo , your ulti who unblocable CC and do 5k + is more usefull to prepare a burst than to damage. When scepter auto hit for more than 1k on zerk stuff I'm happy.
    No even talking that scepter is single target while holo is near 100% aoe ? (btw holo is far than 3 seasons ago.) New engi burst seems grenade scrapper or something like that.

    altho i also can see chrono getting dropped in pvp with this nerf. only thing its good for after this is being scrapper clone.

    The chrono problem was not at all the damage, comparatively to other demolisher class output.

    but as someone also said, dont overbuff the kitten outta it if its clunky to use. rework the skill to something usefull instead. like add more confusion as someone suggested.
    and make it less clunky.. the overbuffing of dmg was the wrong way to make it viable to begin with

    We are ok about this.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    So we end up with a 12 sec CD, 2,25 sec channelling skill who does 3-4k average with zerker gear on a burst build.
    While Ghastly claws do 2 times more in 1,75 sec on 8 sec CD.
    And I didn't even mention other burst class with same gear instant output like rev who can instant 6-8k aoe with way more skills.
    But it's ok we are mesmer and shouldn't output something with our weapon because it's "normal" we have strong illusions to confuse the poor casual who face us ...
    kitten teamfight class whiners ...

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    20k in WvW with food on a target with 25 vuln with a mesmer with 25 power, 75 % crit chance, 215% crit damage ?

    its relatively easy to get 20k+ in pvp with no might or vuln. maybe with 12 stacks from mantra I cant remember.

    anyway I think a cast time decrease would do wonders for scepter # 3.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    20k in WvW with food on a target with 25 vuln with a mesmer with 25 power, 75 % crit chance, 215% crit damage ?

    its relatively easy to get 20k+ in pvp with no might or vuln. maybe with 12 stacks from mantra I cant remember.

    anyway I think a cast time decrease would do wonders for scepter # 3.

    No it wasnt' easy, average full channel pre-pacth did around 8k which seem imo really fair considered the gear and animation. And I play burst spec since 3 seasons now. I never reach 20k with scepter 3 in ranked, best I hit in was around12k and it was far to the average.
    We are after 50% nerf now and even with traits damage boost it hit like a wet noodle while aoe class did more instantly. Why a single target burst mesmer should does less damage than multi target aoe class with his weapon ???

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    No it wasnt' easy, average full channel pre-pacth did around 8k. and I play burst spec since 3 seasons now.

    well then you were doing it wrong lol.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    Well in plat2 you never fight people in underpants you know...

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    its relatively easy to get 20k+ in pvp with no might or vuln. maybe with 12 stacks from mantra I cant remember.

    anyway I think a cast time decrease would do wonders for scepter # 3.

    Are we talking about scepter 3 before the nerf? because no getting that number is not easy at all, I mean the things for it to deal damage to gain might etc is not really hard in some cases "greatsword ambush while multi targets are there", but the damage as far as i played i didn't see those 20k on players, not saying that they don't happen, but mostly those that you can hit for that much, would probably die from gs ambush or something like that, and i still say in my case, i haven't seen 20k damage.

    As for the cast time decrease, they should have done that already without the need for someone to point at it, they didn't study their patches well. But i still think this won't fix the issue with the weapon.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    @Heartpains.7312 said:
    Are we talking about scepter 3 before the nerf?

    pre patch scepter chrono in pvp. ive one shot a ton of ppl with it. berserker, marauder, no might or 12 stacks, fury req. ezpz.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    Ok then, because it start making be little bored.

    With zerker amulet and scholar runes, you have :
    2375 power, 47.86 base critical chance, 225% base critical damage.

    Scepter base damage of 1,953 with a 5.32 coefficient.
    Basic damage formula is : (weapon strength * power * coef) / target armor.
    Medium armor is 2029 with no defensive gear. Let's take this for reference.
    Take 1000 as weapon strength.

    That mean with no crit : 1000 * 2375 * 5.32 / 2029 = 6227.
    With the hypothesis of 100% crit : 6227 * 2.25 = 14k.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit : 6227 * 2.5 = 15 562.5.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit and 5% scholar runes and 5% egotism and 10% danger time : (6227 * 2.6)*1.1 = 17809.22.
    Then with power stacks and vulnerability stacks, you can reach 20k +.

    So can you explain me how you easily put 22k pre-update please.
    And I'm not even talking about opponent damage reduction (like protection or traits.), neither about the weakness uptime many opponent will put on you.
    In my case, with superiority complex and less than 100% crit, I'm finding the 8k average I talk about.
    So the ideal case of scepter op who one shot everyone look pretty but was far to be a reality as long as we aren't fighting mousecliquer full zerk guys in WvW.
    Not even saying that telegraphied laser is one of the most visible burst in this game.

    And post-update with the 50% nerf, the output is ludicrous.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    20k in WvW with food on a target with 25 vuln with a mesmer with 25 power, 75 % crit chance, 215% crit damage ?

    its relatively easy to get 20k+ in pvp with no might or vuln. maybe with 12 stacks from mantra I cant remember.

    anyway I think a cast time decrease would do wonders for scepter # 3.

    That's literally mathematically impossible now. No one is getting 20k in SPvP unless they have 25 might and the enemy has 25 vuln. And even then I'm not sure.

    The most I got on a light training golem with 12 stacks of might from channeling Mantra of Pain, fury, Power Lock to apply Slow, Chronomancer with the power crit traits, and all the crit damage traits in Domination and Dueling trees and a Berserker's amulet was 7.7k.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    To be honest, I use full berserk/Marauder most of the time and i never saw 20k, i play mirage so having 25 stack of might is not an issue and i do apply vulnerability, 20k I think i saw on guards, but on players I guess it just didn't happen.

    Anyway they could just have reverted their changes and reduced its damage by the amount that they increased when they increased the cast time as well, they didn't need to go to the 50% and then even keep the cast time same as it is.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heartpains.7312 said:
    To be honest, I use full berserk/Marauder most of the time and i never saw 20k, i play mirage so having 25 stack of might is not an issue and i do apply vulnerability, 20k I think i saw on guards, but on players I guess it just didn't happen.

    Anyway they could just have reverted their changes and reduced its damage by the amount that they increased when they increased the cast time as well, they didn't need to go to the 50% and then even keep the cast time same as it is.

    Chrono with the crit damage traits hits considerable harder than Mirage on power.

    Scepter beam should just apply 2 or 3 stacks of confusion per damage pulse and do very very little for flat damage.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    That's literally mathematically impossible now. No one is getting 20k in SPvP unless they have 25 might and the enemy has 25 vuln. And even then I'm not sure.

    The most I got on a light training golem with 12 stacks of might from channeling Mantra of Pain, fury, Power Lock to apply Slow, Chronomancer with the power crit traits, and all the crit damage traits in Domination and Dueling trees and a Berserker's amulet was 7.7k.

    it is literally mathematically impossible now. the convo was in the context of pre nerf.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    So we end up with a 12 sec CD, 2,25 sec channelling skill who does 3-4k average with zerker gear on a burst build.
    While Ghastly claws do 2 times more in 1,75 sec on 8 sec CD.
    And I didn't even mention other burst class with same gear instant output like rev who can instant 6-8k aoe with way more skills.
    But it's ok we are mesmer and shouldn't output something with our weapon because it's "normal" we have strong illusions to confuse the poor casual who face us ...
    kitten teamfight class whiners ...

    Just wondering though: do these values include easy access to might and quickness through the illusion traitline ?

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    Chrono with the crit damage traits hits considerable harder than Mirage on power.

    Scepter beam should just apply 2 or 3 stacks of confusion per damage pulse and do very very little for flat damage.

    Aware of the chrono part, as for scepter 3 part, I think it is not so bad to have that idea, but to be honest other mesmer's weapons needs to have some changes to them, swords and so on, if we are gonna make scepter really aimed for conditions only.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    So we end up with a 12 sec CD, 2,25 sec channelling skill who does 3-4k average with zerker gear on a burst build.
    While Ghastly claws do 2 times more in 1,75 sec on 8 sec CD.
    And I didn't even mention other burst class with same gear instant output like rev who can instant 6-8k aoe with way more skills.
    But it's ok we are mesmer and shouldn't output something with our weapon because it's "normal" we have strong illusions to confuse the poor casual who face us ...
    kitten teamfight class whiners ...

    Just wondering though: do these values include easy access to might and quickness through the illusion traitline ?

    Nop netheir condi clear to counter weakness or boon rip to clear protection.
    Moreover if you take quickness and might with illusion : might ins't worth it with no chronophantasma on a power build. With chronophantasma, you have to drop a sustain trait line (basically no condi clear.) or duel/domi.

  • @Heartpains.7312 said:
    Anyway they could just have reverted their changes and reduced its damage by the amount that they increased when they increased the cast time as well, they didn't need to go to the 50% and then even keep the cast time same as it is.

    This is the biggest problem with what happened. Before the buff they needed to make the skill less clunky to use as I brought up in my facetious thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53163/scepter-nerf.

    There was no "nerf", just felt that way with the increased cast time. Was clunky enough before that.

    It's the run of the mill balance approach we've seen so many times on so many other skills/traits.

    buff dmg > nerf another aspect of the skill > determine dmg is too high > revert dmg buff > leave other nerf intact :confounded:

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @skcamow.3527 said:

    @Heartpains.7312 said:
    Anyway they could just have reverted their changes and reduced its damage by the amount that they increased when they increased the cast time as well, they didn't need to go to the 50% and then even keep the cast time same as it is.

    This is the biggest problem with what happened. Before the buff they needed to make the skill less clunky to use as I brought up in my facetious thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53163/scepter-nerf.

    There was no "nerf", just felt that way with the increased cast time. Was clunky enough before that.

    It's the run of the mill balance approach we've seen so many times on so many other skills/traits.

    buff dmg > nerf another aspect of the skill > determine dmg is too high > revert dmg buff > leave other nerf intact :confounded:

    Anet buffed it to nerf it and make it even worse than it was. Great job.

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Ok then, because it start making be little bored.

    With zerker amulet and scholar runes, you have :
    2375 power, 47.86 base critical chance, 225% base critical damage.

    Scepter base damage of 1,953 with a 5.32 coefficient.
    Basic damage formula is : (weapon strength * power * coef) / target armor.
    Medium armor is 2029 with no defensive gear. Let's take this for reference.
    Take 1000 as weapon strength.

    That mean with no crit : 1000 * 2375 * 5.32 / 2029 = 6227.
    With the hypothesis of 100% crit : 6227 * 2.25 = 14k.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit : 6227 * 2.5 = 15 562.5.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit and 5% scholar runes and 5% egotism and 10% danger time : (6227 * 2.6)*1.1 = 17809.22.
    Then with power stacks and vulnerability stacks, you can reach 20k +.

    So can you explain me how you easily put 22k pre-update please.
    And I'm not even talking about opponent damage reduction (like protection or traits.), neither about the weakness uptime many opponent will put on you.
    In my case, with superiority complex and less than 100% crit, I'm finding the 8k average I talk about.
    So the ideal case of scepter op who one shot everyone look pretty but was far to be a reality as long as we aren't fighting mousecliquer full zerk guys in WvW.
    Not even saying that telegraphied laser is one of the most visible burst in this game.

    And post-update with the 50% nerf, the output is ludicrous.

    While I agree that "easy 20k+" is an exaggeration, you've done your calculations wrong.

    Superiority complex is multiplicative to crit modifier, so that should be:

    14k * 1.25 = 17.5k

    All damage modifiers are multiplicative, and danger time acts just like superiority complex, so adding danger time, scholar runes, and and egotism looks like:

    16.1k * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.1 = 21.2k

    Then add a wee bit of might/vuln and you crack 22k.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Ok then, because it start making be little bored.

    With zerker amulet and scholar runes, you have :
    2375 power, 47.86 base critical chance, 225% base critical damage.

    Scepter base damage of 1,953 with a 5.32 coefficient.
    Basic damage formula is : (weapon strength * power * coef) / target armor.
    Medium armor is 2029 with no defensive gear. Let's take this for reference.
    Take 1000 as weapon strength.

    That mean with no crit : 1000 * 2375 * 5.32 / 2029 = 6227.
    With the hypothesis of 100% crit : 6227 * 2.25 = 14k.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit : 6227 * 2.5 = 15 562.5.
    With full superiority complex and 100% crit and 5% scholar runes and 5% egotism and 10% danger time : (6227 * 2.6)*1.1 = 17809.22.
    Then with power stacks and vulnerability stacks, you can reach 20k +.

    So can you explain me how you easily put 22k pre-update please.
    And I'm not even talking about opponent damage reduction (like protection or traits.), neither about the weakness uptime many opponent will put on you.
    In my case, with superiority complex and less than 100% crit, I'm finding the 8k average I talk about.
    So the ideal case of scepter op who one shot everyone look pretty but was far to be a reality as long as we aren't fighting mousecliquer full zerk guys in WvW.
    Not even saying that telegraphied laser is one of the most visible burst in this game.

    And post-update with the 50% nerf, the output is ludicrous.

    While I agree that "easy 20k+" is an exaggeration, you've done your calculations wrong.

    Superiority complex is multiplicative to crit modifier, so that should be:

    14k * 1.25 = 17.5k

    All damage modifiers are multiplicative, and danger time acts just like superiority complex, so adding danger time, scholar runes, and and egotism looks like:

    16.1k * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.1 = 21.2k

    Then add a wee bit of might/vuln and you crack 22k.

    thanks for these precisions, first time I do this kind of calculations because I was far to reach thoses value in game.

  • the numbers may be one thing but I have NEVER one shot ANYONE before with scepter3, but I GET ONE SHOT EVERY night in WVW from rapid fire soulbeasts.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @holly lyn.2173 said:
    the numbers may be one thing but I have NEVER one shot ANYONE before with scepter3, but I GET ONE SHOT EVERY night in WVW from rapid fire soulbeasts.

    All this t alk about SB's are making me itch to change my druid into SB

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭
    edited May 2, 2019

    In general I would say scepter is still and always has been a clinky awkward weapon on Mesmer. It's not easy to use effectively but after other nerfs and changes for many it has become the best choice for many situations. It some times felt like the last "good" option on mirage. Granted the 5 target skill aspect of confusing images typically hits 1 target without allot of maneuvering around to line up opponents between you and your target.
    The reason I say I still prefer it is: Axe has always forced the player to get into mele and become exposed fighting and has been nerfed a few times. It also leaves you in the dust of your opponents when they run away because it lacks mobility like sword. Sword is a power weapon and not the best option for condi all it offers is the leap and a clunky evade that forces you stand in one place and has an animation that outlasts the evade. Staff can work on mirage, but most scepter mirages will defeat that staff mirage so IMO its not the best choice for a roamer in wvw. GS is power and wouldnt make sense to consider for condi mirage. If you want to run power you may as well run Chrono and benefit from the crits and phants they get.

    @holly lyn.2173 said:
    the numbers may be one thing but I have NEVER one shot ANYONE before with scepter3, but I GET ONE SHOT EVERY night in WVW from rapid fire soulbeasts.

    This sounds like honesty to me. This sounds familiar to me.

    I think the nerf to scepter 3 after all the other nerfs and along with the evasive mirror nerf was a poor choice. I think if Anet actually wants to balance Mesmer they need to address elite spec traits. The easiest path I see to trying to balance things is to reduce chrono's ability to generate phants and to crit to make it on par with core and mirage. Then tune the core trait lines and weapons in ways that give each elite spec options that have trade offs that don't directly weaken core Mesmer usefulness

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nerf was needed...as was the DPS nerf to axe (not condi but the raw damage)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Nox.6785Nox.6785 Member ✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @holly lyn.2173 said:
    the numbers may be one thing but I have NEVER one shot ANYONE before with scepter3, but I GET ONE SHOT EVERY night in WVW from rapid fire soulbeasts.

    All this t alk about SB's are making me itch to change my druid into SB

    Eh just until no downed state is gone

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The cooldown change to me just highlights the "going in circles" balance in this situation - was a gradual power creep of reducing it to silly low cooldown and now bumped it back up to 8s...

    I hope future patches begin to offer more meaningful changes.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Nerf was needed...as was the DPS nerf to axe (not condi but the raw damage)

    No it wasn't needed, not in a world where other class with same gear output 3k to 8k instant or with half channel time than scepter 3 on more skills.

  • Crackmonster.2790Crackmonster.2790 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    I am so sad what happened to axe. I don't even consider it worth using in non-pve anymore, maybe i could get it to half decent if i tryharded.

    Also, every now and then you hear people saying staff is overpowered but if you actually play staff you will learn quite fast it's unreliable and you simply cannot output good dps on it. To use staff for any time of decent dps you really need to be able to spawn TONS of clones it requires so many traits and abilties to even function okay, and it's way too shlow it can't hit anyone if they move away. It was almost reliant on illusionary ambush to break into good for that few seconds, but with the insane nerf to cooldown it's not a good ability anymore.

    Scepter it's kind of okay, keep giving it nerfs.

    What i dislike maybe the most is that they split weapons so it's pretty much not worth it in non-pve while being good for pve, etc, and come on i love axe mirage but they just see fit to gut it because they can?? And now what it's, arrrghh.

    It's the typical case of hard to play against mechanics(for nubs) and continued crying from people who don't know what they are crying about just targeting mesmer overall and devs just nerf every aspects because they don't know either. kitten.

    I've been playing staff - Scepter/Torch for awhile but i find myself most just not swapping into staff at all because the dps.. yea... So i think today i will start looking into axe/torch - Scepter/Focus

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Nerf was needed...as was the DPS nerf to axe (not condi but the raw damage)

    No it wasn't needed, not in a world where other class with same gear output 3k to 8k instant or with half channel time than scepter 3 on more skills.

    This actually meant to say it was NOT needed lol. My bad.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    When I was using scepter, even before the nerf, I never actually managed to kill people with scepter 3. The circumstances would have just needed to be quite ideal to actually pull off that kind of damage. The attack also has a kind of obvious tell before it happens. Players, who know what they are doing were able to avoid it easily.
    Now I'm left with a scepter 3 with an obvious tell, that doesn't exactly even tell anywhere near acceptable damage - YMMV. I personally switched away from condi altogether to power, because the nerfs on axe AND scepter pretty much make it not really worthwhile for me. Power is fine, though.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
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