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Upcoming balance pass - DAGGER BUFFS


kornfanxxx.9143

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With the addition of the weaver and sword abilities in Path of Fire™, the main-hand dagger weapon set has been struggling with its identity. The weaver's sword is intended to be a single-target, high-DPS weapon that relies on direct hits to deal damage. In this update, we're leaning into the dagger's close-range area-of-effect damage and burst attacks.

Cone of Cold: The base healing value of this skill has been increased by approximately 20%.Cleansing Wave: The base healing value of this skill has been increased by approximately 20%.Evasive Arcana: The base healing value of this trait has been increased by approximately 20%.Arcane Abatement: Cleansing Wave: The base healing value of this trait has been increased by approximately 20%.Swirling Winds: Reduced the radius of this skill from 400 to 360. The visual effect of this skill now displays a red ring for enemies and a white ring for allies.Vapor Form: Fixed an issue in which this skill would sometimes fail to revive a poisoned player. Fixed an issue in which applying barrier to an elementalist in Vapor Form prevented them from being downed when the skill ended by timing out. Removed an unlisted function of this skill that caused it to apply regeneration to nearby allies.Dragon's Claw: Projectiles from this skill now pierce enemies.Ring of Earth: This skill has been slightly reworked. It now delivers an attack early in the animation, and then another attack upon impacting the ground. Bleeding duration per impact has been reduced from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Initial impact damage is 27.5% of the final impact. Final impact damage has not changed from the skill's initial value.Magnetic Leap: This skill has been renamed Earthen Rush and reworked.

Earthen Rush: Quickly dash along the ground, summoning damaging spikes along the way and then delivering an area attack, immobilizing any enemy struck.Lightning Whip: The range of this skill has been reduced from 300 to 240.

Lightning Touch: This skill has been reworked and renamed Convergence.

Convergence: After a 1-second delay, lightning strikes the elementalist, dealing damage and weakening foes in a 240 radius while granting the elementalist fury for each foe struck.Invoke Lightning: Fixed an issue in which this skill ignored the Disable Player Camera Shake option.

Glyph of Storms (Air): Fixed an issue in which this skill ignored the Disable Player Camera Shake option.Imbued Melodies: This trait now uses the Lesser Sand Squall skill instead of the Sand Squall skill.


So, we got some interesting reworked skills, which me personally am interested to see.

I'm sure some of you remember I'm one of the very few weavers who main D/D celestial in wvw.

D/D was frankly super strong for me to begin with. Now we get 20% stronger heals from cleansing wave via Dagger 5 & evasive arcania,

Cone of cold also will be more impressive as a healing skill as well. maybe not enough for my satisfaction, but better than nothing.

Lightning touch has been reworked to also become a PBaoe skill, which will only make fury uptime even more reliable.

And Magnetic leap got a similar change, embracing d/d's concept of PbAOE spam, which means the skill will HOPEFULLY be more reliable, the animation will hopefully be smoother, and the damage portion & AoE immoblize is excellent.

all in all, I'm extremely satisfied with these changes minus the nerf to lightning whip, having LW at 300 range was a nice bonus along with impale to kite and continue to deal damage at the same time.

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I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

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@Auburner.6945 said:Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.Those are mostly Tempest Support buffs for pvp.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.I guess the trail is more for the sake of flavor, but it seems like the new skill also has an AoE damage effect like Burning Speed? This combined with Ring of Earth should lead to an earth burst combo, if the numbers are decent enough.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.Better for open-world farming, if nothing else.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.I don't think Anet cared about the Weaver at all for this patch, so that's why.

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(PVP)

So we have dagger stuff again yay eh...

Cone of Cold: Every buff that at least tries to encourage me to not use menders in pvp is good for me...but 20% is not big deal...maybe for healbots tempest.Cleansing Wave: Same as above. Relevant or not for menders sw/d.Evasive Arcana: Same as above but it's nice little thing for arcane healbots.Arcane Abatement: IF I understand it correctly we only notice this on fall damage...so who cares?Swirling Winds: Better visibility is fine but why radius nerf? Who complained about this? Who asked for this? What the hell anet?Dragon's Claw: Pierce is fine but why I would spam this with healbot tempest? I have better things to do with fire atumment.Ring of Earth: So our clunky projectile block gets rework...and it will stay probably as our earth filler skill.Magnetic Leap or Earthen Rush: I need to see damage numbers to say anything about this.Lightning Whip: WHY??Lightning Touch or Convergence: This is interesting thing...how much fury will be able to stack with this and how much damage it will do? If cooldown will be nice maybe somebody will try some weird FA dagger build.

So dagger main hand weaver probably will stay dead in pvp (cause we got sword). For d/f tempest might get little more offensive thanks to longer fury (maybe longer!). Little tiny buff for everything using arcane...what a boring patch...I feel that there are so many more important matters for ele than dagger being playable or not with weaver. Balance team would do far more good for us by sticking to last patch and buffing/reworking tempest.

More important things will happen somewhere else:Derdevil dead? If Answer is yes then bye bye d/p thief and staff one-shot wannabies...Power Chrono spike got nerfed so that's all every good news for squishy ele builds.But on other hand Reaper reworks and more importantly Berserker massive rework. These ones look scary.

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@Auburner.6945 said:I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

Weaver doesn't have issues with dagger. people who don't know what they are doing have issues with dagger.

Your comments on cleansing wave are not accurate & general pessimistic views are really off-putting.

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@kornfanxxx.9143 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

Weaver doesn't have issues with dagger. people who don't know what they are doing have issues with dagger.

Your comments on cleansing wave are not accurate & general pessimistic views are really off-putting.

When you compare weaver's dagger to the sword, it has lots and lots of issues. Sword isn't even on a good level of other viable/meta classes, so how is dagger main hand. Sw/d or Sw/f are much much better than d/d on a weaver any day if both of the same skill level. The damage isn't there, PvE, PvP, WvW, you name it, same for healing, same for survivability, why is weaver even 25% viable, it's because sword is able to make use of water line, not because weaver is good or anything, the trait line is worse than tempest's, even before the recent changes.

Cleansing Wave was never used to heal, why would I waste a potential condi cleanse, when we're already struggling with holding on as much sustain as possible to live in this wild forest. Why would I take fall damage to cleanse 2 condis, better deal with condi than actually killing myself.

I love D/D and would love to use it over Sword as it got really boring, and D/D is quite faster, but I am trying to hold onto a middle ground, as in the current stage of video games, the closer you are to meta, the better, the maths beats the skill level at some point.

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@Auburner.6945 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

Weaver doesn't have issues with dagger. people who don't know what they are doing have issues with dagger.

Your comments on cleansing wave are not accurate & general pessimistic views are really off-putting.

When you compare weaver's dagger to the sword, it has lots and lots of issues. Sword isn't even on a good level of other viable/meta classes, so how is dagger main hand. Sw/d or Sw/f are much much better than d/d on a weaver any day if both of the same skill level. The damage isn't there, PvE, PvP, WvW, you name it, same for healing, same for survivability, why is weaver even 25% viable, it's because sword is able to make use of water line, not because weaver is good or anything, the trait line is worse than tempest's, even before the recent changes.

Cleansing Wave was never used to heal, why would I waste a potential condi cleanse, when we're already struggling with holding on as much sustain as possible to live in this wild forest. Why would I take fall damage to cleanse 2 condis, better deal with condi than actually killing myself.

I love D/D and would love to use it over Sword as it got really boring, and D/D is quite faster, but I am trying to hold onto a middle ground, as in the current stage of video games, the closer you are to meta, the better, the maths beats the skill level at some point.

I'm only referring to Spvp & WvW with my comments on D/D.

The majority of the ele playerbase never really did the homework on what d/d weaver can really do since it requires smart usage of unravel to provide its niche of extremely fast attunement swap spamming (which everyone labels unravel as garbage & that is totally false, once its potential is realized on dagger it becomes a critical and mandatory utility pick.) & practiced memory of all the weapon set's cooldowns to avoid wasting time & cooldowns going into an attunement that has cooldowns active.

Your looking at cleansing wave's individual procs by itself, which in itself is not an accurate method to measure how well the skill performs. It's a piece of a system of passive & active heals that make up celestial ele's insane self healing potential. You at most have 3 heals that are itself cleansing wave, or the variant healing ripple, which is essentially the same thing, and procs on swapping into water.

Each one of these procs will heal you for approx 2000-2200 health per use, so back to back thats at least 6000 health regained via active healing from cleansing waves & healing ripple. Also consider frost aura has a transmute option to heal for an additional 1000 health & regen application, for a total amount gained of around 7000 health, give or take.

This doesn't include signet of restoration massive healing, arcane abatement's contribution, regeneration, & soothing mist, all acting as your passive healing contributers

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@kornfanxxx.9143 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

Weaver doesn't have issues with dagger. people who don't know what they are doing have issues with dagger.

Your comments on cleansing wave are not accurate & general pessimistic views are really off-putting.

When you compare weaver's dagger to the sword, it has lots and lots of issues. Sword isn't even on a good level of other viable/meta classes, so how is dagger main hand. Sw/d or Sw/f are much much better than d/d on a weaver any day if both of the same skill level. The damage isn't there, PvE, PvP, WvW, you name it, same for healing, same for survivability, why is weaver even 25% viable, it's because sword is able to make use of water line, not because weaver is good or anything, the trait line is worse than tempest's, even before the recent changes.

Cleansing Wave was never used to heal, why would I waste a potential condi cleanse, when we're already struggling with holding on as much sustain as possible to live in this wild forest. Why would I take fall damage to cleanse 2 condis, better deal with condi than actually killing myself.

I love D/D and would love to use it over Sword as it got really boring, and D/D is quite faster, but I am trying to hold onto a middle ground, as in the current stage of video games, the closer you are to meta, the better, the maths beats the skill level at some point.

I'm only referring to Spvp & WvW with my comments on D/D.

The majority of the ele playerbase never really did the homework on what d/d weaver can really do since it requires smart usage of unravel to provide its niche of extremely fast attunement swap spamming (which everyone labels unravel as garbage & that is totally false, once its potential is realized on dagger it becomes a critical and mandatory utility pick.) & practiced memory of all the weapon set's cooldowns to avoid wasting time & cooldowns going into an attunement that has cooldowns active.

Your looking at cleansing wave's individual procs by itself, which in itself is not an accurate method to measure how well the skill performs. It's a piece of a system of passive & active heals that make up celestial ele's insane self healing potential. You at most have 3 heals that are itself cleansing wave, or the variant healing ripple, which is essentially the same thing, and procs on swapping into water.

Each one of these procs will heal you for approx 2000-2200 health per use, so back to back thats at least 6000 health regained via active healing from cleansing waves & healing ripple. Also consider frost aura has a transmute option to heal for an additional 1000 health & regen application, for a total amount gained of around 7000 health, give or take.

This doesn't include signet of restoration massive healing, arcane abatement's contribution, regeneration, & soothing mist, all acting as your passive healing contributers

When looking at Cleansing Wave changes, the already existing 2000/heal shouldn't come into consideration, only the 20% more. 7000 heal with buffs, that is 1400 more healing, and for actually what, for wasting quite significant skills, but since they aren't all used at once, let's put a 20s timer, 1400/20, that's 70/s, which is really nothing, same goes if we lok at it as the 400 extra burst heal from each. Sw/d already has dagger played on off hand, so the buff is for both, and both are still bad.

For Unravel, Flash, Twist of Fate and Primordial Stance, any of these are 100% more worthy to pick. Even when dropping Flash, I pick Glyph of Elemental Power, that is more damage than Unravel, and talking of burst, sword's capabilities are higher than dagger's and it's still not running Unravel to fit in tons of skills within a short time frame. Unravel would've been magical as F5, but somehow it's so hard to get it there, the technology is lacking.

When I look at the changes, I see nothing but a completely well-baked joke, even the statement before this states how they are looking at close range AoE and bursts, does anyone see that addressed?

Maybe that's my PoV on this patch, however, to each their own, so what you might see good, can be bad in my eyes, and the opposite goes.

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@Auburner.6945 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:I don't count any of these to be buffs except 1 ability, Ring of Earth.

Cleansing Wave (both dagger and arcane line ones): These are used for condi cleansing and not healing, which means, the change is pointless, a lower cd would mean something, but having 200 more hp from an already high cd skill, is nothing, that's about 5-10 healing/s out of it.

Cone of Cold: Already low healing, can be interrupted, I mainly use it for damage when waiting for cooldowns, same for healing, but both are not worth it. Also, the skill can be easily interrupted, given the long channeling time, and with full channeling, it's not much heals.

Arcane Abatement: Water's increased healing isn't needed, you already need fall damage to make use of it, also it is mainly used for the cleansing effect.

Dragon's Claw: Fire is clearly not the go-to auto attack on dagger, the change barely means something.

Magnetic Leap: Fine change, but like burning retreat, no one would stand in the trail.

Convergence: I don't know how this would look like, if there is any indication for this skill, then it's no change than the current one as it will be dodge-able.

The changes didn't address dagger issues with weaver, not one bit. No damage buffs for the weapon, but a range nerf. The buffs are nothing when you look at why the skills are used and the values already assigned to them. The reworks don't sound much. A wasted opportunity for an actual buff.

Weaver doesn't have issues with dagger. people who don't know what they are doing have issues with dagger.

Your comments on cleansing wave are not accurate & general pessimistic views are really off-putting.

When you compare weaver's dagger to the sword, it has lots and lots of issues. Sword isn't even on a good level of other viable/meta classes, so how is dagger main hand. Sw/d or Sw/f are much much better than d/d on a weaver any day if both of the same skill level. The damage isn't there, PvE, PvP, WvW, you name it, same for healing, same for survivability, why is weaver even 25% viable, it's because sword is able to make use of water line, not because weaver is good or anything, the trait line is worse than tempest's, even before the recent changes.

Cleansing Wave was never used to heal, why would I waste a potential condi cleanse, when we're already struggling with holding on as much sustain as possible to live in this wild forest. Why would I take fall damage to cleanse 2 condis, better deal with condi than actually killing myself.

I love D/D and would love to use it over Sword as it got really boring, and D/D is quite faster, but I am trying to hold onto a middle ground, as in the current stage of video games, the closer you are to meta, the better, the maths beats the skill level at some point.

I'm only referring to Spvp & WvW with my comments on D/D.

The majority of the ele playerbase never really did the homework on what d/d weaver can really do since it requires smart usage of unravel to provide its niche of extremely fast attunement swap spamming (which everyone labels unravel as garbage & that is totally false, once its potential is realized on dagger it becomes a critical and mandatory utility pick.) & practiced memory of all the weapon set's cooldowns to avoid wasting time & cooldowns going into an attunement that has cooldowns active.

Your looking at cleansing wave's individual procs by itself, which in itself is not an accurate method to measure how well the skill performs. It's a piece of a system of passive & active heals that make up celestial ele's insane self healing potential. You at most have 3 heals that are itself cleansing wave, or the variant healing ripple, which is essentially the same thing, and procs on swapping into water.

Each one of these procs will heal you for approx 2000-2200 health per use, so back to back thats at least 6000 health regained via active healing from cleansing waves & healing ripple. Also consider frost aura has a transmute option to heal for an additional 1000 health & regen application, for a total amount gained of around 7000 health, give or take.

This doesn't include signet of restoration massive healing, arcane abatement's contribution, regeneration, & soothing mist, all acting as your passive healing contributors

When looking at Cleansing Wave changes, the already existing 2000/heal shouldn't come into consideration, only the 20% more. 7000 heal with buffs, that is 1400 more healing, and for actually what, for wasting quite significant skills, but since they aren't all used at once, let's put a 20s timer, 1400/20, that's 70/s, which is really nothing, same goes if we lok at it as the 400 extra burst heal from each. Sw/d already has dagger played on off hand, so the buff is for both, and both are still bad.

For Unravel, Flash, Twist of Fate and Primordial Stance, any of these are 100% more worthy to pick. Even when dropping Flash, I pick Glyph of Elemental Power, that is more damage than Unravel, and talking of burst, sword's capabilities are higher than dagger's and it's still not running Unravel to fit in tons of skills within a short time frame. Unravel would've been magical as F5, but somehow it's so hard to get it there, the technology is lacking.

When I look at the changes, I see nothing but a completely well-baked joke, even the statement before this states how they are looking at close range AoE and bursts, does anyone see that addressed?

Maybe that's my PoV on this patch, however, to each their own, so what you might see good, can be bad in my eyes, and the opposite goes.

Unravels purpose in the build is to bypass the global 3.5 second ICD weavers have on attunement swap, allowing instant follow up from one damage burst to another or to chain ride the lightning & magnetic leap instantly to create a gap and escape a gank. its scope of use & utility is unrivaled in my mind.

Keep in mind unravel got a buff a while back, so even after bringing your off-hand to your main hand to double attune, it resets the global ICD for weaver's attunement swap, provides stability (traited) & provides one of four boons. (which contributes to dagger's far superior fury uptime along with pack runes & lightning touch, elemental contingency is a common theme through both builds though so I won't count that. )

you can go from air/earth to air/air to fire/fire as fast as your fingers can mash the buttons, sword can't dream of attunement swapping that quickly, especially if it's got chill on it which can spell a death sentence for weavers, not to mention poor tempests & ele in general. chill makes the attunement swap recharge rate 3.5 to 5.81 seconds (4 to 6.6 seconds un-traited), a thing which dagger weavers can ignore with unravel. You could also instantly clear the chill via unravel, since with my particular build you could instantly access water.

https://imgur.com/a/vkDD7at

Those numbers were from a gank me and a fellow guildie on her mirage did against about 12-15 TORK guild members outside of smc a few months ago, we pre-stacked 25 might and wiped them within about 30 seconds, with the first five or six being downed within the first few seconds. notice I did more damage than my guild-mate who was a full zerk greatsword mirage, & it's extremely rare that anyone exceeds my damage while roaming, & I'm usually in the lead by a large margin, keeping in mind my guild mates are extremely talented players themselves, & are regular AT winners, with the more well known spvp AT regular winners like thane, drydude, general jenkins, the mighty lubu, ect.

On a related note, I tend to run sw/d myself when im spvping in ranked or doing an AT with my guild mates, due to sword/dagger being able to side node bunker better than D/D, which is an obvious cleaving teamfighter with heavy CC, but has a hard time finding a legit purpose or job in spvp that it can perform better than swords role @ bunkering side nodes. part of the problem here is celestial amulets nerf to +460 making it match the total stat point count of all the four-stat amulets, and compromises with 4 stat amulets have to be made though there are some good contenders i like with d/d like swashbuckler & wizard amulets.

if you wanna see it in action for yourself just pm me in game, & we can set up a duel or whatever floats your boat.

Build Link:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAroKWADB3j528bmoCEAaAA-j1RGABws/QCPAgHV/JKlf5pEEgTAAd6BmHEAMBgVVqqqKpA2arF-w

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I don't know. Dagger is still a bit niche; more range more cc, but also ask more accuracy and has less dps overall and "sustain"/evade. In WvW roaming it's a strong choice, in PvP it's an other story.Buffs for daggers are welcome and I'll give a try; but I was expecting some rework of traits and utility skills, etc that elem desperately needs, more than weapons skills rework. Not sure buff base healing of some water skills will help to escape from healingPower amulet.

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@"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:I don't know. Dagger is still a bit niche; more range more cc, but also ask more accuracy and has less dps overall and "sustain"/evade. In WvW roaming it's a strong choice, in PvP it's an other story.Buffs for daggers are welcome and I'll give a try; but I was expecting some rework of traits and utility skills, etc that elem desperately needs, more than weapons skills rework. Not sure buff base healing of some water skills will help to escape from healingPower amulet.

dagger being able to slot in superior elements for the 15% crit on enemies with weakness & elements of rage for the 10% damage on double attune & 13% of vitality turning into precision gives them a huge amount of crit chance over sword weavers, my crit chance on dagger in FULL celestial gear & pack runes is 55% base, 70% with weakness on my opponent, 90% with fury+weakness. not to mention if you check that imgur link i posted in my previous post you'll see daggers power damage potential is really impressive with very dangerous burn stack potential if you unravel to double attune to fire & use drakes breath+primordial stance, easy 10 or so burn stacks.

on the evade & sustain topic, that I do agree, d/d has a alot of evade frames, but they're not as easy to access as swords, since they all fall on dagger 3, which means you'll have to use unravel the split second before you want to use the I-frame in burning speed. and other big thing too, is that daggers evade frames are on skills that are much more offensive in nature than swords in that they allow you to have I-frames up while doing your damage combos whereas sword allows for fast access to riptide & earthen vortex which let you heal over time & blast a water field while having 2.75 seconds worth of I-frames, which are much more defensive in design.

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I'm not impressed over all. The increase in healing might be able to offset the lack of survivability built into dagger, but I'm wondering if this is just too little too late. Ele needed more changes to its survivability but I dont think healing is going to do it for core. Most high burst classes already eat through our sustain so quickly.

I am incredibly frustrated anet is pushing the squishiest class further into lose combat with the nerf to Lightening Whip. This convergence skill pretty be freaking poweful if you're making me get up in their face. Like maybe if the damage was tweaked a bit to compensate but I hardly think this change was nessicary.

The other changes to the skills are ... ok? I mean as long as ring of earth can still block projectiles then it's a good buff. And this new earthen rush might be interesting but idk I dont see the new trail mechanic will really add anything. Hopefully the new immob will be more reliable and hit like 5 players.

Buffs to dagger are always welcome, I just hope these are meaningful and not a coat of fresh paint on a broken down car.

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I've tried Dagger weaver for a few months and enjoyed the feel of it, however, for sPvp sword still outshines dagger. The instant evades, easy combo finishers, dual skill barrier, added health trait while wielding sword, etc. These all bandaid the problem for Ele which is that it's a squishy class fighting melee. Dagger has greater cc and range, but there's no way a dagger weaver can survive high end sPvp. Also, half of a their decent skills are hidden behind dual skills.

This all proves that melee weaver was meant only for sword in sPvp. Creating a build with dagger is possible, but not better. No idea why Anet would decrease the range of dagger which is one of the only benefits dagger had going. Buffs to healing and certain other skills would be fun to play, though I doubt it'll address the real issue which is survivability of a squishy class.

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The only thing that I see here is eles getting ready for the 2nd anniversary of being trash tier in competitive. These changes won't do anything about that as always. I do appreciate that they are trying to buff dagger again but they are way too slow with this. Every skill on it should have been fixed by now and we should have moved on to the fundamental problems with the ele traits themselves.

All of the healing buffs are not very significant. Less reliance on healing power is nice, but 20% will not offer much survivability to any build. Lightning whip nerf is a mystery as to why it ever needed to happen. Dragon's claw is slightly less terrible now I guess. Ring of earth buff is probably kinda nice since instead of only being a numbers buff, it also makes it possible to land some of it a bit more reliably.

It remains to be seen how good the skill reworks are though because there is not enough information for me to determine how good they will be. Does convergence have a cast time and then a 1 second delay or is it instant cast with a 1 second delay? Is the fury duration, weakness duration and damage the same or different to lightning touch? All that I know is that it has a 240 radius, which is probably better in terms of landing it than before. What about earthen rush? It sounds like a dash, so does that mean that we lose the leap finisher? Is the range the same or different to magnetic grasp? Does it make you move quicker or slower than before? Is the damage decent? What is the radius of the final effect?Without knowing these things it's impossible to evaluate the reworked skills, so I cannot judge these ones yet. I have a hunch that they will end up being a decent buff but nothing amazing. However, even if the best case scenario happens and they are better than their predecessors in every way imaginable, it still will not be enough. Best case scenario some D/D build becomes a decent alternative to Sw/D weaver, which sounds good until you realize that Sw/D severely under-performs against every other class anyway. Elementalist in general under-performs when compared to every other class, no matter what you run. The entire class needs fixing. Buffing one weapon set to make it as good as another weapon set of an under-performing class will not cut it. The problems run much deeper than that, otherwise there would be some weapon somewhere on ele that is actually good enough.

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To me it looks like they're nerfing tempest aura build with these changes. The added heal buff is OK I guess, but the complete rework of magnetic leap is going to be a game changer for me if they remove the leap finisher from it as it procs auras when you leap through fire, ice, light or ethereal. If you use the 'powerful aura' trait you can pass these auras to five others along with a heal, regen, vigor, and protection if you use 'elemental bastion', 'invigorating torrents' and 'elemental shielding'.

It's a pretty fun support build, but that's about it...no damage, no pressure, just a bit of heal and aura sharing. Meanwhile the meta classes are still way OP and untouched. Unreal to me that they would even bother with these changes when there are so many other obvious issues with other more widely used classes. Sheesh.

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I don't really like magnetic leap as it is.The grasp + leap was really stronger, of course it was not instant leap, so you cannot use it to flee, but now half the time you launch the skill it doesn't hit even if you're right on him....But I fear they change the range too, 450 or600 over 900; at least hop it'll still be a combo finisher, otherwise it'll be smoother and multitarget it seems.

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@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:I don't really like magnetic leap as it is.The grasp + leap was really stronger, of course it was not instant leap, so you cannot use it to flee, but now half the time you launch the skill it doesn't hit even if you're right on him....But I fear they change the range too, 450 or600 over 900; at least hop it'll still be a combo finisher, otherwise it'll be smoother and multitarget it seems.

Somewhat agree, but at least you don't need a target now to activate. For me it's about triggering more auras which proc a bunch of support boons, and an emergency get away.

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Dagger needed more ability to stay alive effects for ele then dmg. Going into melee with weaver only works because of sword having 2 strong evasion as well as having barrier with healing effects. Dagger main hand is one of the only weapons ele cant get an "easy" condi clear from. Non of this even comes close to helping out dagger as a dmg tool at best it makes is more of an full bunker build wepon with no dmg at all because you can only melee as a full bunker ele out side of weaver's sword.

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I believe that the aura changes should also be included in this thread. There are some potential minor buffs there. Fixing chaos armor to work with ele aura traits is a pretty decent change, which means that blasting ethereal fields will be much more useful. You will get all your aura traits to proc as a support tempest, healing a bit more and giving out boons. If dagger gets to keep the leap finisher after the skill reworks, then you have another source of chaos aura there, which you can spread around with aura share. Same with the new dark aura, you may be able to apply some of that to allies if we keep the dagger leap.

These aura changes do make me wonder if Anet are working on a new auramancer elite spec for some other profession. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in the works that mainly focused on the non-elemental auras. On another note, snce they made a brand new aura does this mean that they might try making an arcane aura eventually as well? Maybe if there is some sort of arcanist elite spec?

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@Ganathar.4956 said:I believe that the aura changes should also be included in this thread. There are some potential minor buffs there. Fixing chaos armor to work with ele aura traits is a pretty decent change, which means that blasting ethereal fields will be much more useful. You will get all your aura traits to proc as a support tempest, healing a bit more and giving out boons. If dagger gets to keep the leap finisher after the skill reworks, then you have another source of chaos aura there, which you can spread around with aura share. Same with the new dark aura, you may be able to apply some of that to allies if we keep the dagger leap.

These aura changes do make me wonder if Anet are working on a new auramancer elite spec for some other profession. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in the works that mainly focused on the non-elemental auras. On another note, snce they made a brand new aura does this mean that they might try making an arcane aura eventually as well? Maybe if there is some sort of arcanist elite spec?

Yep, you're right, I may have overreacted a bit, I guess I'll just wait and see how it works out. And I need to read up on the dark aura.

This old man thanks you for the info.

Edit: The more auras the merrier, an arcane aura would be very nice indeed.

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Cone of Cold: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Cleansing Wave: Not bad. Nothing special though.Evasive Arcana: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Arcane Abatement: Cleansing Wave: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Swirling Winds: Nerfed.Vapor Form: Just a fix.Dragon's Claw: Useless.Ring of Earth: Could be good.Magnetic Leap, Earthen Rush: Could be good.Lightning Whip: What the fuck? Nerfed. Range is very important to me.Lightning Touch, Convergence: I appreciate this. This is good.Invoke Lightning: Just a fix.Glyph of Storms (Air): Just a fix.Imbued Melodies: Nerfed.

Overall, this seems more like a nerf. I could do without it.

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@Demented Yak.6105 said:Cone of Cold: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Cleansing Wave: Not bad. Nothing special though.Evasive Arcana: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Arcane Abatement: Cleansing Wave: Useless change. The healing from this has never been truly useful.Swirling Winds: Nerfed.Vapor Form: Just a fix.Dragon's Claw: Useless.Ring of Earth: Could be good.Magnetic Leap, Earthen Rush: Could be good.Lightning Whip: What the kitten? Nerfed. Range is very important to me.Lightning Touch, Convergence: I appreciate this. This is good.Invoke Lightning: Just a fix.Glyph of Storms (Air): Just a fix.Imbued Melodies: Nerfed.

Overall, this seems more like a nerf. I could do without it.

Swirling winds just got the name of the effect changed. Functionality is still the same.

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