Evasive Mirror/Blinding Dissipation nerf severely handicaps power roaming — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Evasive Mirror/Blinding Dissipation nerf severely handicaps power roaming

Both traits are crucial for surviving today's wvw environment on a power build.
Even now, surviving a opening burst from a deadeye/LB ranger/hammer rev requires more than just triggering EM, usually needing to dip into other evades or distortion.
With a 10 sec cooldown on EM, you will practically never have it available when actually needed. Triggering it on accident because you dodged a ranger pbs, but leaving you open to eat a full rapid fire. It shouldn't require burning all your defensive tools in order to survive one weapon skill.
EM counter play already existed in the form of unblockables. Rifle warriors and LB rangers today are already adept at using their unblockable signets/traits.
Don't even consider surviving any scenario where you are +1 by someone with range options.
Blinding Dissipation was a tool to counter aggressive melee builds - why remove this from power builds in order to give condition mesmers even more potential confusion generation for those who run ineptitude?
Idgi, roaming power mesmer is a hard build, I do not see it survive as a solo viable option in wvw post this balance patch.

<1

Comments

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    Both clearly are nerfs, but 'severely' is a bit dramatic and it affects condition Mesmers just as much as power Mesmers.

    • Power can go Master Fencer.
    • CoF is available to every Mesmer. Using it just for blinding is actually more justifiable for power than condition builds.
    • Evasive Mirror had a too huge uptime. We'll see wether 10s ICD might be too long or not.

    Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Roamers were already dead with the Warclaw.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    and now in sPvP as well :s

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

    Master Fencers can be utilized defensively due to the CD reduction (#2 and #4).

    And sure, BD has been nerfed. My point was that it's worse for condi than power. ;)

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    Master Fencer = PvE. Wasn't even used before HoT in PvP for a reason. Anyway you look at it, the blind from the trait for power builds is still getting cut by over 50% and it severely looses its adaptability when it is tied to only one shatter type.

    Master Fencers can be utilized defensively due to the CD reduction (#2 and #4).

    And sure, BD has been nerfed. My point was that it's worse for condi than power. ;)

    Mmm, yap. Power would get a very minor advantage over condi due to adaptability, but it would still be a pretty hard nerf for a build that really shouldn't have got it in the first place (not talking power chrono). On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage when using the trait over power, especially with Ineptitude.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage [...]

    This would be amusing in the tragic kind of way. I hope ANet got enough awareness to not do sth. like that.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage [...]

    This would be amusing in the tragic kind of way. I hope ANet got enough awareness to not do sth. like that.

    I literally think that they still really have it in their heads that they want condi mes to be 'bursty' and therefore tried to make up for the burst from the power nerf from scepter while at the same time decreasing the evasion uptime.
    However, they apparently don't give a kitten about any other type of PvP build in the game or core trait lines.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    On the other hand, if each clone shattered blinds than condi has an immense advantage [...]

    This would be amusing in the tragic kind of way. I hope ANet got enough awareness to not do sth. like that.

    It should do that. Condi shatter is completely limp right and has absolutely no kill potential now. The confusion nerfs last patch were completely misguided.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe... but then I'd want it to be tied to Cry of Pain (re-worked as a Major rather than Minor). We'll see. :)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2019

    @Xaylin.1860 said:
    Maybe... but then I'd want it to be tied to Cry of Pain (re-worked as a Major rather than Minor). We'll see. :)

    Cry of Pain minor is so weird. It only really helps condition builds when Illusions is supposed to be the good for everyone tree. Its the kind of trait you paid with 2 other good traits. Like Compounding Power and Master of Misdirection are good for everyone.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2019

    Isn't this patch ball 4? I thought we would be able to walk by now.

  • balance path is like a joke. Afk is the right choice.

  • "Dazzling: This trait now applies vulnerability when stunning a foe, in addition to when dazing them."

    Now this is really what bothers me. Remember back: This trait prior to some patches made your dazes to stuns (on a 10s cooldown or something?). Now it is basically the same variant but just crippled. This trait was the reason power shatter was strong so they changed the stun interaction (because of ppl crying) but now we have the same thing but crippled.

    I will not go into other nerfs but one thing which bothers me (and which was not mentioned yet) is the nerf to Signet of Illusions and its interaction with the Blind on Shatter and Chrono (CS):

    In a heavy pressured fight you could pop that Sigil and CS right when your shatters were ready, then Shatter through your F skills to proc blinds and also some dmg through F1 and F2. Then split ends and you pop Signet of Illusions again to have your shatters ready.

    This whole interaction was not common use but experienced Chronomancers whould use this to take down pressure/counter pressure which was a glorious skill interaction for Chronomancers which do not play with Shield and don't have the Mirage benefits.

    It got the same nerf as the Healing Signet which is really a sad thing tbh.

  • Me Games Ma.8426Me Games Ma.8426 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daccura.4769 said:
    "Dazzling: This trait now applies vulnerability when stunning a foe, in addition to when dazing them."

    Now this is really what bothers me. Remember back: This trait prior to some patches made your dazes to stuns (on a 10s cooldown or something?). Now it is basically the same variant but just crippled. This trait was the reason power shatter was strong so they changed the stun interaction (because of ppl crying) but now we have the same thing but crippled.

    I don't think it's crippled too much.
    Old was Daze is a 1s Stun (ICD 5s). It was changed because the Mantra of distraction 1200 range stun was too strong. And in most cases these and some unreliable Chaos Storm procs were the only dazes mesmers used.
    With this patch we get all our F3 hits to be stuns which I like very much. Not only that but the duration is being increased making them 1.5s which is even stronger than before. In the same patch we get compensated with increased daze and stun durations on several skills so the latest functionality of Confounding Suggestions stays in the game. From the perspective we are now in this is a buff. Viewed from the perspective of the old Confounding Suggestions this is a slight but neccesssry nerf which was highly compensated with CC durations.

    Also to note for PvE:
    Dazes does not scale with Sigil of Paralysation. The stuns we get can be increased to 1.95s stun which essentially means we get boosted from 600 breakbar damage to 780.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a conditional evade... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

    Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

    Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

    This would require them to have an idea of what they want to do with mesmer as a class though. And judging off of every balance patch since HoT came out, they don't have a consistent idea of what they want mesmer to be.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Evasive Mirror is stupid in my opinion - without any UI visual indicator for icd display (same problem as most long icd effects...), at 10s in practice it's going to be impossible to regularly predict when the reflect will be available, on a conditional evade... so it's just going to boil down to luck based reflect that may or may not range from useless if proccing at the wrong time (in melee or no projectiles) to useful or even pivotal in a fight.

    Utterly stupid trait with 10s icd as it's designed.

    Get rid of all these conditional/contextual requirements and change it into something that can be used with some level of skill and prediction both for the player and opponents - rather than pure luck...

    This would require them to have an idea of what they want to do with mesmer as a class though. And judging off of every balance patch since HoT came out, they don't have a consistent idea of what they want mesmer to be.

    Yeah especially seeing certain things going round in circles like scepter crazy buffs then nerfed back again in a similar way, and confounding suggestions having how many different versions... Just seems like a waste of effort.

    Feeling pretty jaded right now, not been for a long time but maybe with the nice spring weather (northern hemisphere) it's time to go extra casual until Anet sort this kitten out properly - though that could take until the next expansion or whatever. :/

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait they are nerfing evasive mirror too? Lol I missed reading that, I thought only the scepter was going to be hit for my roaming build...

    Time to dump the mesmer then. Or relegate it to meta zerging spec on a chrono or something.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Duelling looks like this now:

    Minors:
    CI - 3s/10s vigour on crit... meh
    SI - good
    Fury - nice to have

    Adept:
    meh
    meh
    Pistol

    Master:
    meh
    meh
    Sword

    Grandmaster:
    Good (SC)
    Ok (Ineptitude)
    Great (DE)

    Like what are you supposed to choose in Adept and Master tier if not using Pistol or Sword? The whole line looks kitten now apart from Deceptive Evasion.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think at this point dueling traitline is no longer worth taking for power mirages, Fencer's is an useless trait, a 20% sword cd reduction is not needed and the ferocity boost is an overkill.
    The blind won't help at all against pew pew builds, the reflect will be on too long cd and wasted 90% of the times because procs with any evade.
    I think dueling must be replaced with chaos or inspi.
    For condi builds blinding dissipation might be good in an ineptitude build who knows.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Duelling looks like this now:

    Minors:
    CI - 3s/10s vigour on crit... meh
    SI - good
    Fury - nice to have

    Adept:
    meh
    meh
    Pistol

    Master:
    meh
    meh
    Sword

    Grandmaster:
    Good (SC)
    Ok (Ineptitude)
    Great (DE)

    Like what are you supposed to choose in Adept and Master tier if not using Pistol or Sword? The whole line looks kitten now apart from Deceptive Evasion.

    I think some people will say kitten it and still go dueling to have a good grandmaster and fury access or go illusions.
    For wvw chaos will find its way with PU and mass inv.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    Well, I haven't played in a long time. However, after the Confounding suggestions was nerfed to 50% daze duration, I actually found I did much better ditching domination and taking illusions instead. Why? Superiority Complex with crit does more damage than the domination line (power block is a difficult skill to test since it is not just about damage and metal anguish is trash). With illusions you could sometimes get people off guard who didn't expect a second mind wrack using 'Shatter Storm'. Additionally, the critical hit chance from Master of Fragmentation paired nicely with Superiority Complex since it is based on crit hit). 'Escape artist' was also nice for a little bit of extra clone generation to make up for not taking Deceptive Evasion. However, you give up deceptive evasion to do so.

    I tried this out before people started using focus and deceptive evasion because a certain streamer started to do it. At this time, Superiority Complex was widely chosen over Deceptive evasion in power builds. The 5 person hit from diversion in Master of Fragmentation in the illusion line is going to do nothing but make the new Confounding Suggestions look even better. However, at this time, I still don't know if it would be worth going Dom/Illus/Elite or Dom/Duel/Elite

    Especially if you didn't use mantra of distractions before, I thought the domination trait line was overhyped and trash. Having a stun to land any damage was extremely important for the trait line. I know that I confirmed on dummies that you did far more burst damage with the Dueling line with Superiority Complex than with the Domination line before.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    Better to buff sword (NOT mirage ambush though) and maybe increase ferocity from fencer's finesse.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    On paper it is 566% but in reality it is not even close to that much of a nerf, since it is limited by endurance anyway. But yeah it was a stupid change, it will just be unreliable and annoying to use.

    // Yanim

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    I don't really see how buffing sword would do very much in PvP (it would help PvE). The main reason for bringing sword is blurred frenzy to avoid damage. Fencer's Finesse would decrease the cool down from 10 sec to 8 sec. It also gives 15 ferocity when your illusion hit with a sword. However, in PvP you are probably only going to have an illusion hit like one time before is either shattered or killed by the enemy. This means the trait will prob give you an extra 1% critical hit damage (maaaayb 2% if it hits twice). Will a 2 sec reduced cool down on blurred frenzy and 1% critical hit damage ever be worth taking in PvP? I mean, this is kitten for PvP, isn't it? I just don't see how buffing sword will make the trait worth it to take. It would be worth it if you plan to bring offhand sword. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

    If they want to make Fencer's Finesse worth taking in PvP for power, then they need to massively increase the cool down reduction. Blinding Dissipation will likely be worth taking for condi if it works with Ineptitude. Evasive Mirror will just be kitten that will never be taken with a 20 sec ICD unless the ICD is Massively, massively reduced.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't really see how buffing sword would do very much in PvP (it would help PvE). The main reason for bringing sword is blurred frenzy to avoid damage. Fencer's Finesse would decrease the cool down from 10 sec to 8 sec. It also gives 15 ferocity when your illusion hit with a sword. However, in PvP you are probably only going to have an illusion hit like one time before is either shattered or killed by the enemy. This means the trait will prob give you an extra 1% critical hit damage (maaaayb 2% if it hits twice). Will a 2 sec reduced cool down on blurred frenzy and 1% critical hit damage ever be worth taking in PvP? I mean, this is kitten for PvP, isn't it? I just don't see how buffing sword will make the trait worth it to take. It would be worth it if you plan to bring offhand sword. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

    Main reason for bringing sword is ambush. On core/chrono scepter is pretty much always better even on power atm.

    Both sword 2 and 3 aren't that good. Blurred frenzy imo needs reduced hits but same damage (to deal with retal) and sword 3 needs improved reliability so the clone doesn't insta-die. Maybe add the ability to use sword 3 without target (as I think they did with elementalist magnetic leap). And yeah fencers is bad not just because it isn't a reliable/consistent, but also because ferocity is general is really bad compared to power. If they want to keep the ferocity it needs to be more ferocity than similar traits on other classes provide power/precision.

    // Yanim

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    I don't really see how buffing sword would do very much in PvP (it would help PvE). The main reason for bringing sword is blurred frenzy to avoid damage. Fencer's Finesse would decrease the cool down from 10 sec to 8 sec. It also gives 15 ferocity when your illusion hit with a sword. However, in PvP you are probably only going to have an illusion hit like one time before is either shattered or killed by the enemy. This means the trait will prob give you an extra 1% critical hit damage (maaaayb 2% if it hits twice). Will a 2 sec reduced cool down on blurred frenzy and 1% critical hit damage ever be worth taking in PvP? I mean, this is kitten for PvP, isn't it? I just don't see how buffing sword will make the trait worth it to take. It would be worth it if you plan to bring offhand sword. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

    Main reason for bringing sword is ambush. On core/chrono scepter is pretty much always better even on power atm.

    Both sword 2 and 3 aren't that good. Blurred frenzy imo needs reduced hits but same damage (to deal with retal) and sword 3 needs improved reliability so the clone doesn't insta-die. Maybe add the ability to use sword 3 without target (as I think they did with elementalist magnetic leap).

    Ya, I know it is brought for the ambush and the ambush is very useful. I just didn't bring it up because Fencer's Finesse obviously doesn't help with the sword ambush. Scepter power was nerfed, so I don't think power builds are going to bring scepter anymore. That was just a weird situation for awhile.

    Edit: yeeesss, those are the changes that need to happen. I agree 100%. Everything you suggested is gold.

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019

    While it doesn't help Evasive Mirror, I'd love getting rid of the Ferocity buff on the Sword trait and gaining the old reflect on (or after...) Sw#2 and #4 instead. One can dream.... :3

    Sw#3 would be great if the sequence was swapped (dash/leap/blink, leaving behind a Clone you can swap to).

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are several proposes on the other thread to get sword at a good level.
    BF to do 4 hits instead of 8 same damage same evade uptime. Sw clone to get some invuln time, Fencer's finesse to give passive power/prec increase instead of requiring 10 hits and give ferocity.
    Apart from sw ambush mobility sw is currently awful.
    Like I said in some thread maybe ranged shatter gs/staff will be used because all mainhands are bad.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    On paper it is 566% but in reality it is not even close to that much of a nerf, since it is limited by endurance anyway. But yeah it was a stupid change, it will just be unreliable and annoying to use.

    Not quite. Evasive mirror works on evades, not dodging. While dodging is a huge source of evades, mesmers also get several skills that allow them to evade attacks, notably BF but also sword 4, both of which are on short CDs and can be traited even shorter with dueling. Mirage also gets another evade on axe on a 10sec CD untraited. Combined with vigor and strategically using your evade skills, you could have been proccing EM roughly every 3-4 seconds on average even over an extended fight. In a quicker fight, you could easily activate it 4-5 times in a row, right off its ICD each time.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    There are several proposes on the other thread to get sword at a good level.
    BF to do 4 hits instead of 8 same damage same evade uptime. Sw clone to get some invuln time, Fencer's finesse to give passive power/prec increase instead of requiring 10 hits and give ferocity.
    Apart from sw ambush mobility sw is currently awful.
    Like I said in some thread maybe ranged shatter gs/staff will be used because all mainhands are bad.

    Nah the mobility from sword ambush is way too important to go staff.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    On paper it is 566% but in reality it is not even close to that much of a nerf, since it is limited by endurance anyway. But yeah it was a stupid change, it will just be unreliable and annoying to use.

    Not quite. Evasive mirror works on evades, not dodging. While dodging is a huge source of evades, mesmers also get several skills that allow them to evade attacks, notably BF but also sword 4, both of which are on short CDs and can be traited even shorter with dueling. Mirage also gets another evade on axe on a 10sec CD untraited. Combined with vigor and strategically using your evade skills, you could have been proccing EM roughly every 3-4 seconds on average even over an extended fight. In a quicker fight, you could easily activate it 4-5 times in a row, right off its ICD each time.

    Sorry yeah that's true. I just wanted to point out that just saying 566% nerf could be a bit misleading (for example, raising cooldown of fury on crit or vigor on crit by 566% would be a much bigger relative nerf).

    // Yanim

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    I just meet a grenade burst scrapper today with me on a direct build with no blind/reflect, stealth alone is far to compensate when talking about survival when literraly everyone (gwenr class.) pop AOE CC and damage considering we haven't the same in/out melee efficiency than thieves.
    And a full range build with staff/GS isn't the best synergy with stealth survival.
    I highly doubt than the buff to PU and the change to master of manipulation will be enough to compensate the blind on shatter who is the main survival tool in majority of mesmers builds.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Roamers were already dead with the Warclaw.

    Getting real tired of this myth.

    I still roam and havoc fine. I scout and get objectives.

    What the warclaw hampered was ganking, and good riddance.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    Evasive Mirror nerf I get.

    Blinding dissipation nerf after all the survivability nerfs (including Evasive Mirror in slot competition) will make power builds almost free in so many matchups, which I don’t think is fair given its level of effectiveness, even with diversion being a stun option again.

    Mass invis long duration stealth burst might be mainstream again? But honestly I might as well go malicious backstab Deadeye, which is significantly safer, easier to land, and try again on whiffs.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    On paper it is 566% but in reality it is not even close to that much of a nerf, since it is limited by endurance anyway. But yeah it was a stupid change, it will just be unreliable and annoying to use.

    Not quite. Evasive mirror works on evades, not dodging. While dodging is a huge source of evades, mesmers also get several skills that allow them to evade attacks, notably BF but also sword 4, both of which are on short CDs and can be traited even shorter with dueling. Mirage also gets another evade on axe on a 10sec CD untraited. Combined with vigor and strategically using your evade skills, you could have been proccing EM roughly every 3-4 seconds on average even over an extended fight. In a quicker fight, you could easily activate it 4-5 times in a row, right off its ICD each time.

    Sorry yeah that's true. I just wanted to point out that just saying 566% nerf could be a bit misleading (for example, raising cooldown of fury on crit or vigor on crit by 566% would be a much bigger relative nerf).

    I see where you're coming from, but its not misleading at all in my opinion. Mechanically, especially if you play an elite spec (mirage gets extra evade skills while chrono has alacrity and IA if you want to run it), you could pop EM off back to back multiple times in a row, while killing the opponent quickly, and effectively have the ICD be 1.5 seconds for the entire fight. Even on extended fights though, proccing it every ~3 seconds is sustainable for a pretty solid amount of time.

    So I guess I will revise my original comment. Its a 566% nerf to the ICD when using it in a burst, but even over extended fights its still a 233% nerf to the ICD, which is still one of the largest nerfs this game has ever seen from a pure numbers perspective. It was way too heavy handed, and just adds yet another ICD to mentally keep track of as a mesmer if you wish to run the trait still. Which, taken together, means it was a kitten poor nerf to the trait, and not the correct way to address it.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    EM cd change is a bit extreme. 566% CD increase all at once is a pretty insane nerf. Would rather have seen it bumped up no higher than 6 or 8, especially considering that mirror was removed from master of manipulation.

    On paper it is 566% but in reality it is not even close to that much of a nerf, since it is limited by endurance anyway. But yeah it was a stupid change, it will just be unreliable and annoying to use.

    Not quite. Evasive mirror works on evades, not dodging. While dodging is a huge source of evades, mesmers also get several skills that allow them to evade attacks, notably BF but also sword 4, both of which are on short CDs and can be traited even shorter with dueling. Mirage also gets another evade on axe on a 10sec CD untraited. Combined with vigor and strategically using your evade skills, you could have been proccing EM roughly every 3-4 seconds on average even over an extended fight. In a quicker fight, you could easily activate it 4-5 times in a row, right off its ICD each time.

    Sorry yeah that's true. I just wanted to point out that just saying 566% nerf could be a bit misleading (for example, raising cooldown of fury on crit or vigor on crit by 566% would be a much bigger relative nerf).

    I see where you're coming from, but its not misleading at all in my opinion. Mechanically, especially if you play an elite spec (mirage gets extra evade skills while chrono has alacrity and IA if you want to run it), you could pop EM off back to back multiple times in a row, while killing the opponent quickly, and effectively have the ICD be 1.5 seconds for the entire fight. Even on extended fights though, proccing it every ~3 seconds is sustainable for a pretty solid amount of time.

    So I guess I will revise my original comment. Its a 566% nerf to the ICD when using it in a burst, but even over extended fights its still a 233% nerf to the ICD, which is still one of the largest nerfs this game has ever seen from a pure numbers perspective. It was way too heavy handed, and just adds yet another ICD to mentally keep track of as a mesmer if you wish to run the trait still. Which, taken together, means it was a kitten poor nerf to the trait, and not the correct way to address it.

    Agreed, generally dislike ICDs most of the time. Sadly it seems that PvP-motivated changes almost always come in the form of numerical tweaks.

    // Yanim

  • The nerf is good. It actually makes mirage less brain dead to play. Good players will adapt and not rely on the crutch.

    I'm looking forward to playing Mirage again. I stopped playing it because it felt like it had too much reward for too little risk.

  • @treizebee.2091 said:
    Blinding Dissipation was a tool to counter aggressive melee builds - why remove this from power builds in order to give condition mesmers even more potential confusion generation for those who run ineptitude?

    So was this a buff to condi builds or a nerf to both? I've heard both and read it as a nerf personally. Anyone know that can log in?

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EvilSardine.9635 said:
    The nerf is good. It actually makes mirage less brain dead to play. Good players will adapt and not rely on the crutch.

    I'm looking forward to playing Mirage again. I stopped playing it because it felt like it had too much reward for too little risk.

    Adapting is not the issue - we all adapt and continue to succeed just like with every change.

    The issue is Anet continues to nuke overpowered things into irrelevance rather than making any attempt to balance them.

    Only explanation is lack of resources (because the alternative is laziness/lack of imagination) - ie effectively "delete" overpowered things until having enough time to create meaningful balance. I'm sure they'll revisit things like this and Elusive Mind - whether its in the next 2 months or 2 years, depending on priorities and resource constraints.

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • There are way too many trash Mes traits at the mo. I mean who seriously is going to choose BD when it effectively it gives one blind every 30 secs now. That's ridiculous.

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