Mounts make it impossible to escape from/win any outnumber.

i get chased by 3 people 2 of which are guardians but they just mount up and chase me from OOC while the mobile person keeps me in combat, i even killed the mobile person but they where back immediately because of the mount, how does anyone escape now? Can't even have a single fight without having zero chance to escape if its even a 1v2 outnumber, there is literally zero counterplay, no gitting gud involved, you get +1nd and there is nothing you can do to prevent the OOC mounting and chasing.

The current state of this situation is just toxic and is a lose-lose situation whatever you do, maybe unless you are a daredevil with shortbow and quick pockets.

@Anput.4620 said:there is literally zero counterplayYeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that could easily escape outmanned before mounts!

... wait...

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Anput.4620 said:there is literally zero counterplayYeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that could easily escape outmanned before mounts!

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff, you could pick a class to be better at specific jobs while being way worse at others, you can't do anything to counter mounts. Also before mounts i never had trouble chasing except daredevils with a shortbow.

As a Thief you may have been fast pre-mounts but you couldn't spam out heals, cleanses, stability and about every boon possible for example(on my firebrand i could just walk into a tower fine actually, because i just wouldn't die, outlasting is also a valid strategy).

In the current situation there is nothing i can do, i can't slot in another dash, it just doesn't work.

Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that couldn't get away from other classes that could easily cover large distances super fast before mounts!

...wait...

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that couldn't get away from other classes that could easily cover large distances super fast before mounts!

...wait...

You made the exact same comment as someone else so ill give the exact same reply.

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff, you could pick a class to be better at specific jobs while being way worse at others, you can't do anything to counter mounts. Also before mounts i never had trouble chasing except daredevils with a shortbow.

As a Thief you may have been fast pre-mounts but you couldn't spam out heals, cleanses, stability and about every boon possible for example(on my firebrand i could just walk into a tower fine actually, because i just wouldn't die, outlasting is also a valid strategy).

In the current situation there is nothing i can do, i can't slot in another dash, it just doesn't work.

I can make the same comment too.

Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that can't spam aoe damage or aoe support to be good in groupfights vs classes that can do all those things....

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff,

That is how balance works.

So Mount is balanced. Good to know. Thanks for verifying.

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:So Mount is balanced. Good to know. Thanks for verifying.

How does that make it balanced? It covers the weaknesses and tradeoffs of some builds but not the weaknesses and tradeoffs of others? That is not how balance works, that is skewed.

Strengths vs. Weaknesses, it's a trade-off.....

@Anput.4620 said:

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that couldn't get away from other classes that could easily cover large distances super fast before mounts!

...wait...

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff, you could pick a class to be better at specific jobs while being way worse at others, you can't do anything to counter mounts. Also before mounts i never had trouble chasing except daredevils with a shortbow.

As a Thief you may have been fast pre-mounts but you couldn't spam out heals, cleanses, stability and about every boon possible for example(on my firebrand i could just walk into a tower fine actually, because i just wouldn't die, outlasting is also a valid strategy).

In the current situation there is nothing i can do, i can't slot in another dash, it just doesn't work.

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff,

It's the same argument people use when ktraining 'if you want fights go pvp'OR ganking 'if you want equal number fights go pvp'OR people only want to do open field fights 'if you want to cap a tower go silverwaste'

People like the game how they see IT and want to adjust to IT "paper: nerve scissor, rock is fine.'

The scenery you explained is basicly why the mount is raping roaming, and worse: 3 man compositions are less rare but always seem to lack to hit outside their 'favorbox'. Yes i agree it's a solid tactic, in the end it's a game: it's also a solid tactic to sit entire days in the same Towers, no1 likes that.

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Strengths vs. Weaknesses, it's a trade-off.....

What is a tradeoff? The mount isn't a tradeoff, it is a straight buff to certain builds only.

It covers the weaknesses and tradeoffs of some builds but not the weaknesses and tradeoffs of others? That is not how balance works, that is skewed.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that couldn't get away from other classes that could easily cover large distances super fast before mounts!

...wait...

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff, you could pick a class to be better at specific jobs while being way worse at others, you can't do anything to counter mounts. Also before mounts i never had trouble chasing except daredevils with a shortbow.

As a Thief you may have been fast pre-mounts but you couldn't spam out heals, cleanses, stability and about every boon possible for example(on my firebrand i could just walk into a tower fine actually, because i just wouldn't die, outlasting is also a valid strategy).

In the current situation there is nothing i can do, i can't slot in another dash, it just doesn't work.

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff,

Yeah that is my exact points but people don't see to understand the difference between "Balance" and "In my advantage" here.

And this is the reason why I no longer roam all the way to north camps. What is the point? I rather stay near spawn and wait for 5+ players to come near home tower to try to kill me, then i will instigate one of them in hopes that he will turn around and engage me. However, the whole group turns around and chases me, but luckily I am near a tower and i get in.

Thanks Anet for making WvW a getto place!I do 0 roaming now! Roaming is dead! i used to roam up and down all border lands, now I don't. I also make sure I stay inside the areas we own or else my mount becomes slower than theirs and not only do I have disadvantage in numbers BUT ALSO on SPEED! JESUS CHRIST!

THANKS ANET!

But wait, there are people who actually enjoy warclaw? hahahahahahahahaha what a joke!

Buffs every class as every class can use it. Basically the same as before without Mounts. People still ganged up on people to kill them. People still had better maneuverability than some other classes. If you couldn't get away from someone with better maneuverability before you still won't get away. People can still pick and choose their fights, if someone wants to fight then they will if not then they won't. Balanced.

@Anput.4620 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@"oOStaticOo.9467" said:Yeah there is literally zero counterplay for classes that couldn't get away from other classes that could easily cover large distances super fast before mounts!

...wait...

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff, you could pick a class to be better at specific jobs while being way worse at others, you can't do anything to counter mounts. Also before mounts i never had trouble chasing except daredevils with a shortbow.

As a Thief you may have been fast pre-mounts but you couldn't spam out heals, cleanses, stability and about every boon possible for example(on my firebrand i could just walk into a tower fine actually, because i just wouldn't die, outlasting is also a valid strategy).

In the current situation there is nothing i can do, i can't slot in another dash, it just doesn't work.

Strenghts vs weaknesses, it is a tradeoff,

The problem with the mount: out of combat speed is brought to a certain level. It's a scenery of all classes, yes i see the problem..it's an attitude problem because people fail to see the overal balance

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Buffs every class as every class can use it. Basically the same as before without Mounts. People still ganged up on people to kill them. People still had better maneuverability than some other classes. If you couldn't get away from someone with better maneuverability before you still won't get away. People can still pick and choose their fights, if someone wants to fight then they will if not then they won't. Balanced.

It doesn't buff every class as the relative balance isn't the same as it only buffs in a specific area where some classes where already good in while others where not, but they where good in other areas in return.

That is not how relative balance works, this is like saying giving every class permaswiftness is balanced even though some already have that.

You literally make up for half the classes weaknesses while not giving the other class something to make up for their weaknesses in return, the necro can now pick and choose like a DD maybe but the ranger can't do what the necro does in groupfights, that is simply not how balance works. Thinkl of this in a relative way, otherwise it makes zero sense.

Also, this just makes the mode less interactive too, any PvP game where everyone can pick their fights literally results in no one taking any fights they won't win which means there won't be fights which in turn means that the mode will devolve in EOTM KTRAIN.

I don't see what's wrong here. The possibility of escaping or winning an outnumbered fight should always be small unless there's a huge difference between you and your opponents' skill levels.

The real reason why you, and a few others like you, are mad is because you have spent years developing a character that is specifically built to take on individual players that are not designed to take on other individual players. You get your jollies on killing people that are not designed to defend themselves against certain builds. Now that they have an option to avoid that scenario you feel robbed of your pleasure to kill people the way you want to kill people. How unfair! Meanwhile the person who was getting killed had no options to avoid that scenario and they were being robbed of playing they way they wanted to play. Just rude of them to expect that!

With the Mount you now have to actually face other players that are designed to take on other players. OH THE HUMANITY! That means you have to be good. That means that skill is actually involved in killing somebody instead of just brute force that the other person can't defend against. Warclaw has made WvW a better place because now everybody gets to play exactly the way they want to play. If they want to 1v1 then they will look for others that want to 1v1. If they don't want to 1v1 and instead get back to their group then they have the ability to do so. Learn to pick your battles or learn how to take out the Warclaw so you can force your enemy to engage you in an unfair battle geared for you to win.

Either way, Strengths vs. Weakness.......you decide.

I maintain that the mount was a poor addition to WvW, but the scenario sounds like you were just following and harassing a small group. Which is fine.

But if you have the danglers to try and bait a 3v1 you should expect them to adapt and find a way to get the jump on you.

@Warkind.6745 said:I maintain that the mount was a poor addition to WvW, but the scenario sounds like you were just following and harassing a small group. Which is fine.

But if you have the danglers to try and bait a 3v1 you should expect them to adapt and find a way to get the jump on you.

It was a 1v1, then i got +1nd, then i killed one of them, got +1nd again and then again because the other person i killed came back, all because i decided to actually roam and go out far into the map. Then it was just keeping me in combat with mounts so i couldn't mount til i died.

@Anput.4620 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:I maintain that the mount was a poor addition to WvW, but the scenario sounds like you were just following and harassing a small group. Which is fine.

But if you have the danglers to try and bait a 3v1 you should expect them to adapt and find a way to get the jump on you.

Thems the knocks in WvW. Whenever you roam that's the risk you take.

People wanting to get away from every unfavorable fight every time is what got us there Warclaw in the first place.

@Warkind.6745 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:I maintain that the mount was a poor addition to WvW, but the scenario sounds like you were just following and harassing a small group. Which is fine.

But if you have the danglers to try and bait a 3v1 you should expect them to adapt and find a way to get the jump on you.

Yeah and whats the risk of not fighting at all then? You know, the thing that promotes non-interactivity. What's the risk in traveling? Taking action and going offensive is a risk, so what is the balance of risk vs reward then, please tell me as i see no balance right now.

the counterplay is to not run solo anymore. adapt or die.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the counterplay is to not run solo anymore. adapt or die.

How can a group of mounts chase another group of mounts, please explain.

Also please link a ranger and thief zerg build.

Why do we have to be forced to adapt to such a toxic gamestate? Just fix the game.

Also why didn't the necros adapt or die back when there weren't mounts? They could also not run alone and not get killed but they chose to die, own fault then, thanks for confirming this.

@Anput.4620 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:

@Anput.4620 said:

@Warkind.6745 said:I maintain that the mount was a poor addition to WvW, but the scenario sounds like you were just following and harassing a small group. Which is fine.

But if you have the danglers to try and bait a 3v1 you should expect them to adapt and find a way to get the jump on you.

Obviously it's not balanced. But the game rarely ever is? A few months ago when I went far I accepted I'd probably run into some condi mirage that would cheese me to the ground or a boonbeast. Now I accept that I'm probably going to get pinned down by Warclaws or a boonbeast.

My point is that the Warclaw is no different from anything else that has happened to unbalance WvW. It's no more toxic or lose-lose than it has ever been.

Mounts are equals for everyone. They don't change the in-combat mobility. If your in-combat mobility is superior or equal, you won't have any problem to escape or take down an escaping opponent (as it can't exit from combat either). Someone keeping you busy with their superior in-combat mobility while its allies can catch up is a perfectly fine tactic, and given your past threads i don't see why you should privy them of their hard-earned fights (the defender isn't the one that can decide when to fight something something).I may add that given that you talk about staying alive versus 3 opponents, escaping from two of them and rapidly killing the mobile one, either you think that your build is supposed to have only strengths or you being killed is perfectly fine in such a situation.