Rampage has everything and needs tradeoffs/nerfs

After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

Both Holosmith and Spellbreaker are the most balanced, high risk high reward, highest skill cap builds to have ever existed in entire history of Guild Wars 2 which is why Anet left them completely untouched this upcoming balance patch.

There are so many toxic skills and builds who need a huge nerf bat and rework, holo, spellbreaker and soulbeast are stupidly easy mode spammy 2 braincells spec with stupidly low risk high reward and what they do?They rework daredevil nerfing it to unviable.

About rampage, you are right, i don't understand while in the world it should pulse stability like balanced stance, maybe should only give an hp or toughness increase and that's all, removing stab is one good healthy change.

@whoknocks.4935 said:There are so many toxic skills and builds who need a huge nerf bat and rework, holo, spellbreaker and soulbeast are stupidly easy mode spammy 2 braincells spec with stupidly low risk high reward and what they do?

No. If there was anything wrong with any of those builds they would have been nerfed this upcoming balance patch. They are perfectly balanced.

the balance team need to work on Dagger Storm and Rampage

@DragonFury.6243 said:the balance team need to work on Dagger Storm and Rampage

Yeah with all the bs in the game nerf theif more? lmao

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaha high risk?! what game you were playing ...

I can admit as a warrior main that rampage has a bit too much on too low a cooldown, and it could definitely use some toning down; albeit if they do nerf rampage, it needs to be a soft nerf, or at the very least; warrior needs some sort of buff to go along with it.

We literally rely on this one skill and magebane to do anything and everything right now. Teamfight presence, closing out duels, rotating, chasing down kills, disengage. If you take that away without giving, you kill warrior's viability. It's already considerably weaker than a lot of other side-noder builds for other classes, but Rampage as it is makes up for that, and keeps warrior balanced. A little must be given if a little is to be taken, you feel me?

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

holosmith balanced, ah ye that must explain why in wvw they are called yolosmiths because they can jump in a group of 5 and still come out on top

spellbreaker used to do that, then full counter became full tickle

oh, and holo can do it by abuisong both line of sight, and terrain elevation (hello 360 degree vertical and horizontal forge 5 aoe cc)

boonbeast is untouched this patch, by your logic they are balanced

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

I litereally argued for a nerf that also hits holo. Also Holo in WvW is completely different from PvP since some nerfs are unsplit.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:the balance team need to work on Dagger Storm and Rampage

Well unlike other players when i see BS skill design i like the balance team to address themand you think i want to nerf teef !!do you know other BS skill design that no 1 complain about them i can give an example

Feast of Corruptionit has little to no animationsshort cast time , CD and have 2 effectsfirst effect is on hitcorrupt 2 boons and grant 8% LF to necrosecond effect is after hitapply 1 stack of Torment and grant 1% LF for each conditions on the targetand you can trait it to do all the above hit 5 targets in 360 radius AOEdo you know how many brain cell required to activate Feast of Corruption or Dagger Storm ?

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

Regardless of what you think of rampage (it surely needs a nerf), the trade off argument is regarding elite specialization not a specific skill. Particularly one that is a core skill.

In that spirit, what is the trade-off for playing holo? Very high damage, high sustainability, high mobility, ridiculous boon stacking and boat load of CC. What do you give-up when playing holo?!

@otto.5684 said:

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

they should give holo the same warrior berserker threatment-300 toughness when entering forge

Rampage is pretty strong, but I wouldnt go too hard on nerfing it.I'd say lower the damage by about 10~15% across the skills and maybe make Boulder Daze instead of Stun, then see how it goes from there.

@otto.5684 said:

@"Falan.1839" said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

Ranged option >600 or defensive weapon skills, both of which it lacks when going into holomode. But whatever, I think I'm out if it just turns into another thread where I get attacked for my class instead of the actual topic being discussed. Really says a lot if I suggest a nerf to an aspect that actually hits my class too and all I hear is "wah wah wah but you play holo and I got killed by one in WvW". Basically pointless to post here.

I play both Warrior and Necro. The cooldown should be more on par with Lich Form which also has high damage and even less control/cc.

In fact, Rampage will beat Lich regardless of the difference in cooldown, so the fact that rampage has such a significantly lower cooldown indicates either the cooldown is too short on rampage or Lich is too long (assuming they properly balance similar elites).

Also, if you look at the specs that choose the elite, rampage can be used by many warrior specs. Almost no necro builds can even use Lich. Plus, I doubt anyone is going to argue that a power core warrior is worse than a power core necro and, thus, rampage (not lich) needs a lower cooldown. You can't even say it's part of an overall balancing equation. In comparable core choices, a warrior has a better healing signet...better CC...better mobility...better armor...more burst...faster resource accumulation...etc...so it's hard to argue that Lich needs such a long cooldown that is only viable with non-meta builds compared to Rampage that is viable on almost any meta build.

As some other honest warriors have suggested, it's probably the cooldown of rampage that needs to increase or the damage has to be tone down in order to be in line with budgets for other similar elites. When one elite is a) chosen far more than other options, b) so much more game changing in a fight, and c) the result is available too often in the game, then you know something needs to be fixed. (They also should buff some of the other elite options for warriors too.)

Unfortunately, we all know that things that are obvious tend to be the most invisible to Anet. Look how long it's taken them to address Mesmers and they are STILL having to do stuff after a full year of nerfs. How did they ever get past internal testing as they were a year ago pre-nerfs??? Plus, look at all the obvious bugs that need to be hotfixed each patch. They aren't even hidden type bugs. These are things noted instantly by anyone simply playing the professions for 10 minutes after release.

Rampage is fine and easily countered.Tempest perspective.

Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done.

I swear ya'll complain about anything...

@sephiroth.4217 said:Rampage is fine and easily countered.Tempest perspective.

Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done.

I swear ya'll complain about anything...

You give up node though. Your perspective is limited.

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

What an uninformed point of view. Moreover, it is a very bad argument as one class, that is in your perception OP, does not diminish another class's skill actually being completely over the top.

Additionally, your post makes zero sense as in high level play spellbreaker destroys holosmith in 1v1s.

@"AngelsShadow.7360" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Rampage is fine and easily countered.Tempest perspective.

Magnetic Auras / Immobilize / chill / Weakness and cripple spam combined with a tiny bit of kiting, easy done.

I swear ya'll complain about anything...

For like 5s, big woop lolWarrior blows rampage, rampage gets kited and warrior dies. At most he might have made a decap in the process.I can shut down a rampage with earth overload, 1 simple skill and that one simple skill can be used mid kite on a warrior slightly off point, of which then I get a decap or recap.I can and could facetank the damage on point too with weakness and protection/regen uptime but that's unnecessary when soft CC does the trick easily.This is coming from a Tempest point of view, you know that class that everyone says is trash? Yea, even trash can handle it fine.

Don't tell someone they have limited perspective when yours is way less, it doesnt work that way.

Immobilise actually has zero affect on rampage (with warrior) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint

But of course you know that.

Oh and just so you're aware; just because a build is unoptimal in competitive play, doesn't mean it can't handle specific stuff at a more difficult level. This is why your persective is limited. You attribute tempest to being bad, and think that because your build that can bunker down a warrior can handle rampage that all meta builds should be able to. The reality is they can't.

Now you may ask the question "why play meta builds then if they're not able to tank a rampage?".

Good Question.

Meta builds are such because they are the optimal build for that class against all other optimal builds. Why do we run Elixir S on Holosmith when we could just tank Rampage with Spectrum Shield? The answer is that then Revenant could easily +1 us and one shot us as we have no hard invulns. So you see, its not as simple as "if I can tank it on my trash build everyone else should be able to".

You also suggest in your post that giving up the node is acceptable. It really isn't. The fact that one ability is able to force you to give it up with little to no counter for most classes (corrupts, blind fields and moa are the only real options) is sign of the imbalance.

When you 1v1 a Spellbreaker you need to save some cooldowns for Rampage. There are plenty of kite spots across maps that will interfere with Rampage skills (and several other skills that we need to land for pressure) pretty significantly, too. I've gotten stuck on objects so many times using long animation skills because people kite well that it's basically a free dodge for them. If you get blown up by Rampage it's your fault for not conserving on cd's - just like any other 1v1 scenario.

@melandru.3876 said:

@MrPhantasia.5924 said:

@Falan.1839 said:After some overperforming builds from the last meta were nerfed, Spellbreaker is back in full force and there is already a lot of complaints about there. I think a lot of the issues with it could be resolved by tuning down rampage. It would hit Holo aswell, but it would definitely keep being viable (I play pretty much exclusively without Elixir X on a high level).

The general mechanic of Rampage however is overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay. First of all there is the extremely high dps potential on every single skill, that gets boosted even further by several dmg modifiers on warrior. In addition to that you gain 2 very useful movement skills - sometimes leading high lvl warriors to use Rampage just to disengage. On top of that you have very strong potential, (4 CCS) and a ranged cc with high dps. That in itself is already a very strong combination. However, to make things worse, you also get permanent pulsing stability AND a very strong defense (dmg reduction and increased hp pool). If you tether your enemy before activating it you can also additionally get extra might and reveal, negating another possible counterplay (strength). So basically there is almost no counterplay except extremely high corrupt/boonrip pressure on the stability paired with cc. That is unlikely to ever work in a 1v1 situation, where you are usually busy avoiding the big hits (aka all of them).

So, in my opinion, at least 2 aspects of this bundle (damage, CC, movement, stability, defense) have to go. I'm personally In favour of removing the stability and defensive bonuses, making it a high risk high reward play, with still very strong combination of damage, CC and mobility but the possibility of being punished by counter CC with no available stunbreak and no increased defense to just facetank through it. As of now it's a very high reward play with close to zero risks.

@melandru.3876 said:a holo complaining about warrior

holo, which is the most broken (with boonbeast) out theremobility, stealth, sustain, burst, boons, you name it, ranged pressure, melee pressure, cc

oh and id i forget the broken forge skilsl? i love when forge 5 hits me through a freaking wall.

if only holos would also have access to rampage, oh wait they do albeit it on a 50% chance...

can't have it all right

Someone sounds like they aren't balanced. Do you Mirage, much maybe?

Boonbeast is fine. No one is complaining about it.

Falan you are playing holosmith the definition of overpower and no boonbeast is too strong.