Warrior Arc Divider is bugged. - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Warrior Arc Divider is bugged.

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  • DigiQWill.6378DigiQWill.6378 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @DigiQWill.6378 said:

    @Interpretor.3091 said:

    @Rix.8510 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.
    It need's to be fixed.

    Incorrect! The attack is not unblockable,it can be evaded and the high damage comes from the attack hitting you 3 times in a row.Still needs nerf tho

    The strong part about it is that if you spec with signet of might (which is what everyone is doing) you can burn through all Aegis and Block.
    The full cast animation of Arc Divider is 1.75 seconds for all 3 ticks of dmg. It’s a 5 sec CD so with Signet of Fury, you can cast it again immediately after the CD is up.
    Thats 6 swings of Arc Divider in 6.75 seconds with a total uptime of 3 seconds.
    A single dodge roll is .75 seconds and 300 units. Total of 1.5 seconds of evade if you use them both immediately.
    Now you CAN dodge all 3 ticks of the initial burst if you time it perfectly and double dodge roll, but the problem is that you wont have both dodges back up again to avoid the second burst less that 6 seconds later.
    So not only are you making the enemy team waste their dodge rolls/invulns because that is the ONLY way to avoid the dmg with signet of might, but you are also severely weakening sustain for the entire enemy team by using ONE AoE ability.

    It’s absolutely rediculous. It’s a long lasting, AoE that you can chain AND guarantee unblockable for a short time with only two utilities. Not to mention that for some unreal reason, each swing of Arc Divider procs Sundering Burst, which allows you to get 10 stacks of Vulnurability on each target EACH TIME IT HITS AND CRITS. That’s 30 stacks of invuln per target if each hits and crits and 15 stacks if it doesnt Crit. (This last part has to be a bug or Anet has lost their mind).

    One shot builds are meme builds that only effect one player, those are fine and require finesse to work and even a bit of luck. This, however, is a bugged and overpowered atrocity. I was a total advocate for Berserker changes to make the spec more interesting and viable, I wasn’t asking for this though.

    Let's not talk about how CC-able the skill is (because 1.75s of animation lock is really long). Even with stab pulsing, one good conversion of boons or a well timed CC (that nearly all specs have) can just nullify the sustain and the damage berserker has. With only two utilities, that's only what all DPS-priented specs need to do good bursts. And so you know, you can only stack a maximum of 25 vulnerability... I won't say its damage isn't absurdly too high, but nerfing it would just kill the spec and then no more Berserkers would be played in ranked because it would have nothing.

    Well how bout making it affecting a single target instead of killing off everything with in a 450 radius? & tone down the damage to a reasonable amount so it does not do 12-65k a pulse. I could live with that. Pretty sure everyone else would too.

    I would agree that its damage is overtuned. Ever so slightly. A spin doing everywhere from 12k to 25k is rather strong but it's really the only thing berserker has. Also, "Hello my queen, I hope you don't mind me 1 trick-ponying you to death!!!" All good jokes, no salt or flames ^^

    @KelyNeli.4516 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:
    we need to keep posting on this BS until it gets fixed

    Its absolutely fine
    d0nt yov gUys h4ve DodG3?

    @DigiQWill.6378 said:
    Let's not talk about how CC-able the skill is (because 1.75s of animation lock is really long). Even with stab pulsing, one good conversion of boons or a well timed CC (that nearly all specs have) can just nullify the sustain and the damage berserker has. With only two utilities, that's only what all DPS-priented specs need to do good bursts. And so you know, you can only stack a maximum of 25 vulnerability... I won't say its damage isn't absurdly too high, but nerfing it would just kill the spec and then no more Berserkers would be played in ranked because it would have nothing.

    >

    There is no spell fast enough that could stun berserker before killing you.

    Hmmm... Lol. That is just a lack of general skill awareness. I'm just going to CC - boon corrupt (if the berserker runs stability) is nearly instant cast, daze mantra is instant cast, ranger can lb4 them from 1.5k range, any decent warrior knows now to use shield 5 into dagger 3 to interrupt it, and all classes have access to some sort of damage nullifying thingymcblobber that they can chain into another CC. And if you say "yeah well what if it plays defense??? duh!!!", then that 12k arc divider is hitting for a floppy 6k. Arc divider has at beast 1 and a quarter second castime, if not 1 and three quarters. It is easily counterrable. Easily. Just dodge and cc before they get their second one off cooldown. But we can't expect everyone to know how to play this game, right? Better to nerf and dumb things down than use actual brain cells to play! Only good jokes though, play however you want. Nerfing berserker though... lol. Nerf other things before that.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not a big complaint:

    • Game earlier today.
    • Team fight vs a berserker.
    • Team runs into mid to start the game.
    • Two team mates drop instantly.
    • Enemy Deadeye. Can’t kill me or my team.
    • My team can’t counter the berserker.

    I do mean that as not a complaint. My team was somehow not able to handle fighting the berserker who must have been glass. Sure, there was a scrapper living his bunker life on mid. But I feel the enemy team was legit carried by an AoE DPS. That’s fine, my team should have given up mid for a half minute to focus the berserker. Totally their fault.

    I do think, there is a small adjustment needed to berserker.
    1. It hits slightly too hard. Maybe a reduction on the GS burst. There don’t need to be too many reductions here. Berserker in glass should hit hard.
    2. AoE is too big and the animation with quickness is a joke. I teleported away and with lag the burst killed me a second after I teleported away.
    3. Can I hit this hard if I build glass?

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • faced GS berserkers in wvwvw and pvp using a vanilla warrior and this is not really a problem.

  • luzonophir.7134luzonophir.7134 Member ✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

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  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:
    Not a big complaint:

    • Game earlier today.
    • Team fight vs a berserker.
    • Team runs into mid to start the game.
    • Two team mates drop instantly.
    • Enemy Deadeye. Can’t kill me or my team.
    • My team can’t counter the berserker.

    I do mean that as not a complaint. My team was somehow not able to handle fighting the berserker who must have been glass. Sure, there was a scrapper living his bunker life on mid. But I feel the enemy team was legit carried by an AoE DPS. That’s fine, my team should have given up mid for a half minute to focus the berserker. Totally their fault.

    I do think, there is a small adjustment needed to berserker.
    1. It hits slightly too hard. Maybe a reduction on the GS burst. There don’t need to be too many reductions here. Berserker in glass should hit hard.
    2. AoE is too big and the animation with quickness is a joke. I teleported away and with lag the burst killed me a second after I teleported away.
    3. Can I hit this hard if I build glass?

    I think the damage should come in increments first hit should hit the same damage as auto, then the second should hit harder and the 3rd wave should be the big hit so you will have time to dodge. I think many skills that are channeled like that should work similarly like for example Rapid Fire on longbow Ranger. Also berserker with the blender boi build is worse then reaper since it occupies the same niche of power AOE, but it is fun meme build when it works out.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not excatly where I was going with this, not even sure if it matches the context to the quote. The comparison was between a mesmer GS combo and a GS warrior Combo of which one is more powerful. I stated that Warrior is more powerful because Arc divider does more damage, within a bigger radius, while at least mesmer has a trade off of it not working 100% when there are more enemies. Arc Divider doesn't receive the same treatment as a gs combo because in order for that entire process to happen a mesmer must combo a chain of abilities that have to go off one after the next for it to work. Warrior on the other hand must only land 1 ability for it to work.

    First off. a burst combo not working to 100% down multiple enemies is not a tradeoff for it being able to absolutely erase one enemy, with little telegraph. In the context provided it would -at the very least- down the targeted enemy and heavily damage those nearby.

    Let me explain what I meant regarding the quote you responded to above.
    My argument centers around the relative power of these specs being altered by the context in which their attacks are launched, not just their raw damage or the number of targets they affect. Yes, Warrior does more raw damage, with a bigger radius. But it also:

    • Takes more time to deliver that damage
    • Delivers multiple visual indications that that damage is coming (The warrior is approaching, the warrior has landed headbutt (which itself has a telegraph), the warrior has turned red and is wielding a greatsword)
    • Places the Warrior in close proximity of their opponent

    To be hit with two or even three hits of Arc Divider. You have to ignore all of the above and then fail to dodge or move out of 450 range while the move is active. Even though warriors have gap closers, they have clear visual indication and a limited amount of time that this move is going to come out, before they damage you with it, and they cannot move very far while it is active. You don't need to be away from them before or after Arc Divider is being cast, only -as- it is being cast.

    Compare that to Mesmer's iconic burst which:

    • Does not require the mesmer to be very close to the opponent unless they wish to add more damage
    • Takes significantly less time to deliver the damage
    • Has no/very little indication that the damage is coming (it can be performed from stealth, players must look out for a faint purple sword image to avoid dying immediately)

    Now, regarding this:

    Arc Divider doesn't receive the same treatment as a gs combo because in order for that entire process to happen a mesmer must combo a chain of abilities that have to go off one after the next for it to work. Warrior on the other hand must only land 1 ability for it to work*

    The above isn't true.

    Mesmer burst requires five abilities at its core. The Prestige -> Mirror Blade ->Power Lock -> Mind Wrack -> Mind Stab
    The only ability you need to land is Mirror blade. The rest of the damage, even if it comes from separate skills, is applied almost immediately. You can add other damaging abilities like Power Spike, but that is instant cast and has no telegraph either.

    Warrior requires, as you said:

    Signet of Might -> Headbutt -> Berserk -> Arc divider.

    It's still a combo. You need to land Headbutt (or, if you fancy, use signet of fury, which is nondamaging). After that, Berserk and Arc Divider deal damage.
    Between Headbutt and Berserk, and Berserk and Arc Divider, and Arc Divider itself, you have ample opportunity to avoid or mitigate damage. Not to mention the warrior is completely visible as he approaches you and there is a visual indication as he uses each of these skills, so there is ample time to -prepare- to do these things as well.

    While I find the 1 shot combo potential toxic in the game, i can tolerate it on a mesmer just due to them being a 1v1 class by nature. Its pretty much their job to focus 1 target down at a time and move onto the next. That being said, Id also be down for support of big damage abilities needing more wind up and telegraphed effects. Elementalist has it, other classes should follow suit.

    I don't understand this reasoning. First, mesmer being entitled to untelegraphed, large damage because they are a "1v1 class by nature." Who decided that they were that? Even if they were, that should not, on a proper playing field, grant them a free opener on anyone they see fit. Why would you tolerate unpredictable damage over predictable damage, if failing to dodge either gives you the same result, simply by nature of the class that is doing it? Either they (and every other oneshot build) are both toxic because they both deal too much damage and should be nerfed, or they are both fine because they have particular niches they fill. I am fine with either outcome, as long as it is consistent.

    Even if we were to go by this rationale (and I dont agree with it, mind you) that it is mesmer's job to focus 1 target down with a oneshot burst and move on to the next, why would it be unfitting to claim that it is Warriors job to cleave in an area?

    I also don't understand what you mean by big damage abilities needing more windup and telegraphed effects, while at the same time being objectively opposed to the damage zerker is doing at this time. Headbutt is telegraphed. Berserk is telegraphed. Arc divider has three hits, and any dodge after it is cast, either at or around the same time the first hit is coming out will outright evade two of the hits. How should it be more telegraphed?

    I dont know about you but 300 toughness is nothing when you still have the best access to sustainable abilities on the lowest CDs in the game, not to mention highest health. Access to stability isnt really much of a issue if you are doing 1v1s since not many classes can burn all the stab you get from Balanced stance. (Trust me, I tried), Only counter to that is corrupting boons. If its a XvX situation then i'm sure the situation is covered on support at that point wheter if its from a mate blinding an enemy to getting stability from a outside source. Losing synergy with traits is something that all classes have to face sadly. In time theyl patch it out... then again some classes still suffer to this day from bad traits =/

    What sustainable abilities? Endure pain and defy pain both last two seconds on a 30 second CD. They have the highest health because they don't have much access to active defense or damage mitigation. Most other classes can stealth to avoid counterpressure, force you to retarget with taunts or ambushes, or have other active abilities that grant them significant amounts of health as they are in combat. Berserkers have access to Adrenal health, yes, but since they give up their burst for Berserk mode, it only goes off if someone is within 240 range of the warrior and not evading as they cast Berserk. So they are actually LESS sustainy than normal warriors.

    Can you specify how exactly Berserkers have the best sustain access on the lowest CD in the game?

    You don't burn the stab from balanced stance. You wait 4 seconds.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Balanced_Stance
    It applies stability four times, with each application lasting one second. If you can live for four seconds, The warrior has no stability and you can interrupt anything else they do, even if they decide to burn their heal to try arc divider again.

    I will not argue xvx implications of berserker at this time. That statement is loaded with things that are not very relevant to whether arc divider itself requires nerfing to its damage, and it will make this argument even more confusing.

    Its easy to say to not hug a warrior, but they have leaps, gap closers, stability, dodges, blocks, invuln... yeah, I dont think I have much more to say on that, getting a warrior off of you is pretty tough now adays if they ignore half your abilities. or Maybe I'm just playing a very out of date class (Celestial Staff Tempest).

    See above. You do not need to outmobile a warrior completely to avoid arc divider, only as it is coming out.
    Staff Tempest is a spec built for either premade comps where you provide area support, or backline WVW support. It is not a proper spec for 1v1ing -anything-. Dagger, Focus, Warhorn and Scepter builds are all superior for 1v1 matchups, and more mobile to boot.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    First off. a burst combo not working to 100% down multiple enemies is not a tradeoff for it being able to absolutely erase one enemy, with little telegraph. In the context provided it would -at the very least- down the targeted enemy and heavily damage those nearby.

    Let me explain what I meant regarding the quote you responded to above.
    My argument centers around the relative power of these specs being altered by the context in which their attacks are launched, not just their raw damage or the number of targets they affect. Yes, Warrior does more raw damage, with a bigger radius. But it also:

    • Takes more time to deliver that damage
    • Delivers multiple visual indications that that damage is coming (The warrior is approaching, the warrior has landed headbutt (which itself has a telegraph), the warrior has turned red and is wielding a greatsword)
    • Places the Warrior in close proximity of their opponent

    To be hit with two or even three hits of Arc Divider. You have to ignore all of the above and then fail to dodge or move out of 450 range while the move is active. Even though warriors have gap closers, they have clear visual indication and a limited amount of time that this move is going to come out, before they damage you with it, and they cannot move very far while it is active. You don't need to be away from them before or after Arc Divider is being cast, only -as- it is being cast.

    Compare that to Mesmer's iconic burst which:

    • Does not require the mesmer to be very close to the opponent unless they wish to add more damage
    • Takes significantly less time to deliver the damage
    • Has no/very little indication that the damage is coming (it can be performed from stealth, players must look out for a faint purple sword image to avoid dying immediately)

    It is a trade off. High single target damage for low aoe damage. While a mesmer has this issue a warrior does not as the number of targets in the area does not effect it in anyway. Mirror blade would bounce to seperate targets, splitting the damage between them.

    A warrior takes more time to close in on a enemy but it has the defenses and gap closers to make that difference minuscule not to mention with increased in combat movement speed and immunity to immobilize. It doesnt take much effort for a warrior to be able to close the distance and stick itself onto a enemy. Not to mention its damage is consistent even if it blows its first combo.

    Mesmer on the other hand has 1 shot at this one trick pony combo, not to mention there are classes with built in defenses to stop a burst of this caliber nowadays.
    (Soulbeast, Warrior, Necromancer)

    Now, regarding this:

    Arc Divider doesn't receive the same treatment as a gs combo because in order for that entire process to happen a mesmer must combo a chain of abilities that have to go off one after the next for it to work. Warrior on the other hand must only land 1 ability for it to work*

    The above isn't true.

    Mesmer burst requires five abilities at its core. The Prestige -> Mirror Blade ->Power Lock -> Mind Wrack -> Mind Stab
    The only ability you need to land is Mirror blade. The rest of the damage, even if it comes from separate skills, is applied almost immediately. You can add other damaging abilities like Power Spike, but that is instant cast and has no telegraph either.

    Warrior requires, as you said:

    Signet of Might -> Headbutt -> Berserk -> Arc divider.

    It's still a combo. You need to land Headbutt (or, if you fancy, use signet of fury, which is nondamaging). After that, Berserk and Arc Divider deal damage.
    Between Headbutt and Berserk, and Berserk and Arc Divider, and Arc Divider itself, you have ample opportunity to avoid or mitigate damage. Not to mention the warrior is completely visible as he approaches you and there is a visual indication as he uses each of these skills, so there is ample time to -prepare- to do these things as well.

    What I said is still true. Mesmer requires a sequence of abilities to pull off the burst. If one thing fails its over for the attempt. Like dodging or blocking the initial attack.

    A warrior has little chance for error due to its damage being more consistent from many sources, it is easier to land a headbut due to players having to blow their dodges on already high damaging abilities and cleave. Not to mention a warrior can hit any target in a group with headbut to instantly top off their zerk bar. Couple this with the quickness the class receives when they go berserk the animation of the skill is sometimes inconsistent when the damage is received thanks to lag. (Same thing happens when a thief steals and the damage is applied before they actually teleport to you.)

    While I find the 1 shot combo potential toxic in the game, i can tolerate it on a mesmer just due to them being a 1v1 class by nature. Its pretty much their job to focus 1 target down at a time and move onto the next. That being said, Id also be down for support of big damage abilities needing more wind up and telegraphed effects. Elementalist has it, other classes should follow suit.

    I don't understand this reasoning. First, mesmer being entitled to untelegraphed, large damage because they are a "1v1 class by nature." Who decided that they were that? Even if they were, that should not, on a proper playing field, grant them a free opener on anyone they see fit. Why would you tolerate unpredictable damage over predictable damage, if failing to dodge either gives you the same result, simply by nature of the class that is doing it? Either they (and every other oneshot build) are both toxic because they both deal too much damage and should be nerfed, or they are both fine because they have particular niches they fill. I am fine with either outcome, as long as it is consistent.

    Even if we were to go by this rationale (and I dont agree with it, mind you) that it is mesmer's job to focus 1 target down with a oneshot burst and move on to the next, why would it be unfitting to claim that it is Warriors job to cleave in an area?

    I also don't understand what you mean by big damage abilities needing more windup and telegraphed effects, while at the same time being objectively opposed to the damage zerker is doing at this time. Headbutt is telegraphed. Berserk is telegraphed. Arc divider has three hits, and any dodge after it is cast, either at or around the same time the first hit is coming out will outright evade two of the hits. How should it be more telegraphed?

    It was decided they were a 1v1 class because thats how their class mechanic works? When you beat a enemy your clones were summoned on the clones shatter, no?

    The difference between a warrior/mesmer capabilities comes to build balance. What does a mesmer sacrifice, and what does a warrior sacrifice to achieve these results, how is it weighed to risk over reward.

    Mesmer obviously sacrifices defense and Aoe Damage to be able to burst down a single target.
    What does a Warrior sacrifice to deal the same damage numbers to Single and Aoe Targets?

    I dont know about you but 300 toughness is nothing when you still have the best access to sustainable abilities on the lowest CDs in the game, not to mention highest health. Access to stability isnt really much of a issue if you are doing 1v1s since not many classes can burn all the stab you get from Balanced stance. (Trust me, I tried), Only counter to that is corrupting boons. If its a XvX situation then i'm sure the situation is covered on support at that point wheter if its from a mate blinding an enemy to getting stability from a outside source. Losing synergy with traits is something that all classes have to face sadly. In time theyl patch it out... then again some classes still suffer to this day from bad traits =/

    What sustainable abilities? Endure pain and defy pain both last two seconds on a 30 second CD. They have the highest health because they don't have much access to active defense or damage mitigation. Most other classes can stealth to avoid counterpressure, force you to retarget with taunts or ambushes, or have other active abilities that grant them significant amounts of health as they are in combat. Berserkers have access to Adrenal health, yes, but since they give up their burst for Berserk mode, it only goes off if someone is within 240 range of the warrior and not evading as they cast Berserk. So they are actually LESS sustainy than normal warriors.

    Can you specify how exactly Berserkers have the best sustain access on the lowest CD in the game?

    You don't burn the stab from balanced stance. You wait 4 seconds.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Balanced_Stance
    It applies stability four times, with each application lasting one second. If you can live for four seconds, The warrior has no stability and you can interrupt anything else they do, even if they decide to burn their heal to try arc divider again.

    I will not argue xvx implications of berserker at this time. That statement is loaded with things that are not very relevant to whether arc divider itself requires nerfing to its damage, and it will make this argument even more confusing.

    Its easy to say to not hug a warrior, but they have leaps, gap closers, stability, dodges, blocks, invuln... yeah, I dont think I have much more to say on that, getting a warrior off of you is pretty tough now adays if they ignore half your abilities. or Maybe I'm just playing a very out of date class (Celestial Staff Tempest).

    See above. You do not need to outmobile a warrior completely to avoid arc divider, only as it is coming out.
    Staff Tempest is a spec built for either premade comps where you provide area support, or backline WVW support. It is not a proper spec for 1v1ing -anything-. Dagger, Focus, Warhorn and Scepter builds are all superior for 1v1 matchups, and more mobile to boot.

    Endure pain, defy pain, Balance stance (No crits), Shield abilities, Defiant Stance. This coupled with some of the best escapes and mobility in the game. The stall game on a warrior is real and even worse when it has support. And yes this is obtainable with GS + x/Shield.

    Warrior literally has some of the games bes damage mitigation and active defenses with addition to it literally being on some of the shortest cooldowns. No warrior is getting taunted because they have strong access to stability. No warrior is getting immobilized because their movement abilities wont allow it. Literally meaning they have literally the best escapes.

    Regarding balance stance, when combat is literally over in sometimes as less then 10 seconds, 4 seconds is a very huge number for a target to have that much access to stability and being able to not be crit. While having 0 trade off as warrior are still able to keep rolling through. Even after the 4 second mark, the traits a warrior has makes up for it in the end.

    You actually do need to outmobile a warrior because in this game lag plays a huge factor of if something is hitting you or not. While you may be X distance away from the target area of a warrior on your screen, the server can still register it as in range.

    My staff tempest is being used as a WvW Support, no one said anything about going toe to toe with the Warrior. BUT, when my capabilities as a class are completely snowballed and thrown out by passive abilities of another class with no effort, then thats a huge issue. I cant outheal even a portion of a berserker damage to either myself or to a teammates health, especially if they are squishy low health targets like myself. When a class that goes full glass can outsustain and have better defenses then those who actually have to spec and build for survivability then its a huge issue.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    Just out of curiosity, are you talking about balancing in the frame of WVW or in the frame of sPVP? Because:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    My staff tempest is being used as a WvW Support, no one said anything about going toe to toe with the Warrior. BUT, when my capabilities as a class are completely snowballed and thrown out by passive abilities of another class with no effort, then thats a huge issue. I cant outheal even a portion of a berserker damage to either myself or to a teammates health, especially if they are squishy low health targets like myself. When a class that goes full glass can outsustain and have better defenses then those who actually have to spec and build for survivability then its a huge issue.

    A warrior has little chance for error due to its damage being more consistent from many sources, it is easier to land a headbut due to players having to blow their dodges on already high damaging abilities and cleave. Not to mention a warrior can hit any target in a group with headbut to instantly top off their zerk bar. Couple this with the quickness the class receives when they go berserk the animation of the skill is sometimes inconsistent when the damage is received thanks to lag. (Same thing happens when a thief steals and the damage is applied before they actually teleport to you.)

    Defiant Stance

    Just to make sure we are on the same page, I am talking about balancing as it pertains to conquest in spvp, not WVW.
    I dont play WVW enough to have any say on the balancing efforts regarding that particular game mode. I will elaborate once I am certain we are both talking about the balancing efforts in SPVP.

    You're saying things that I find borderline nuts personally, but that would make sense in WVW (Mesmers being a 1v1 class would relegate them to roaming in WVW and theyd be less effective in Zergs, etc. In Spvp Warriors don't often run defiant stance because skirmishes on point make it unviable more often than not, but it would make sense in a zerg) . In Spvp though, a lot of these interactions have different weight and I may be incorrect in assuming certain things as given. Let me know if you're talking from WVW experience or from SPVP, in which case I will continue thinking you're nuts and write another response.

    If you're talking about WVW then I got no idea what you're talking about. I didn't think that sphere was balanced at all tbh.

    Also before mesmers give me the death glare, disclaimer:
    no , I'm not trying to get zerk mes GS oneshot removed or nerfed. I don't like it, bur I respect its glassiness enough to tolerate it. My issue is with people consider untelegraphed burst fine but telegraphed burst is not, in particular context (even if they both down you.)

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Just out of curiosity, are you talking about balancing in the frame of WVW or in the frame of sPVP? Because:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    My staff tempest is being used as a WvW Support, no one said anything about going toe to toe with the Warrior. BUT, when my capabilities as a class are completely snowballed and thrown out by passive abilities of another class with no effort, then thats a huge issue. I cant outheal even a portion of a berserker damage to either myself or to a teammates health, especially if they are squishy low health targets like myself. When a class that goes full glass can outsustain and have better defenses then those who actually have to spec and build for survivability then its a huge issue.

    A warrior has little chance for error due to its damage being more consistent from many sources, it is easier to land a headbut due to players having to blow their dodges on already high damaging abilities and cleave. Not to mention a warrior can hit any target in a group with headbut to instantly top off their zerk bar. Couple this with the quickness the class receives when they go berserk the animation of the skill is sometimes inconsistent when the damage is received thanks to lag. (Same thing happens when a thief steals and the damage is applied before they actually teleport to you.)

    Defiant Stance

    Just to make sure we are on the same page, I am talking about balancing as it pertains to conquest in spvp, not WVW.
    I dont play WVW enough to have any say on the balancing efforts regarding that particular game mode. I will elaborate once I am certain we are both talking about the balancing efforts in SPVP.

    You're saying things that I find borderline nuts personally, but that would make sense in WVW (Mesmers being a 1v1 class would relegate them to roaming in WVW and theyd be less effective in Zergs, etc. In Spvp Warriors don't often run defiant stance because skirmishes on point make it unviable more often than not, but it would make sense in a zerg) . In Spvp though, a lot of these interactions have different weight and I may be incorrect in assuming certain things as given. Let me know if you're talking from WVW experience or from SPVP, in which case I will continue thinking you're nuts and write another response.

    If you're talking about WVW then I got no idea what you're talking about. I didn't think that sphere was balanced at all tbh.

    Yeah my scope was on WvW. Thats my fault since I am posting in the PvP section. Usually balance discussions rarely happen in the WvW focused section of the forum.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Just out of curiosity, are you talking about balancing in the frame of WVW or in the frame of sPVP? Because:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    My staff tempest is being used as a WvW Support, no one said anything about going toe to toe with the Warrior. BUT, when my capabilities as a class are completely snowballed and thrown out by passive abilities of another class with no effort, then thats a huge issue. I cant outheal even a portion of a berserker damage to either myself or to a teammates health, especially if they are squishy low health targets like myself. When a class that goes full glass can outsustain and have better defenses then those who actually have to spec and build for survivability then its a huge issue.

    A warrior has little chance for error due to its damage being more consistent from many sources, it is easier to land a headbut due to players having to blow their dodges on already high damaging abilities and cleave. Not to mention a warrior can hit any target in a group with headbut to instantly top off their zerk bar. Couple this with the quickness the class receives when they go berserk the animation of the skill is sometimes inconsistent when the damage is received thanks to lag. (Same thing happens when a thief steals and the damage is applied before they actually teleport to you.)

    Defiant Stance

    Just to make sure we are on the same page, I am talking about balancing as it pertains to conquest in spvp, not WVW.
    I dont play WVW enough to have any say on the balancing efforts regarding that particular game mode. I will elaborate once I am certain we are both talking about the balancing efforts in SPVP.

    You're saying things that I find borderline nuts personally, but that would make sense in WVW (Mesmers being a 1v1 class would relegate them to roaming in WVW and theyd be less effective in Zergs, etc. In Spvp Warriors don't often run defiant stance because skirmishes on point make it unviable more often than not, but it would make sense in a zerg) . In Spvp though, a lot of these interactions have different weight and I may be incorrect in assuming certain things as given. Let me know if you're talking from WVW experience or from SPVP, in which case I will continue thinking you're nuts and write another response.

    If you're talking about WVW then I got no idea what you're talking about. I didn't think that sphere was balanced at all tbh.

    Yeah my scope was on WvW. Thats my fault since I am posting in the PvP section. Usually balance discussions rarely happen in the WvW focused section of the forum.

    See now I understand you. I bet Arc Divider is a kitten mess in wvw. Theres all sorts of food and sigil and armor combinations available in wvw that would probably make Arc Divider zerg-eater tier over there.
    Keep in mind a lot of the stuff usable in wvw is heavily regulated in spvp, so the interactions between classes are different.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.
    It need's to be fixed.

    What about every other aoe attack that can hit through walls in the game are all those op too?

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.
    It need's to be fixed.

    What about every other aoe attack that can hit through walls in the game are all those op too?

    No, compared to Arc Divider, they tickle. And that's the point. None of them has that much of a broken damage in it's AOE despite some of them could use some tweaking.

    Name one AOE that affect everyone around it & that does same amount of damage in that same split second as Arc divider. Just ONE! plz..
    You can't can you. So plz don't try to justify your broken class with smart kitten quips how ever that's spelled.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ive been running Diviners build with nearly 100% uptime on quickness telling people to JuST DoDgE iT lel

    Thanks forums.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Ive been running Diviners build with nearly 100% uptime on quickness telling people to JuST DoDgE iT lel

    Thanks forums.

    The arms/Strength variant?
    Hope you enjoy getting pinballed by anyone with CC, lel

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Ive been running Diviners build with nearly 100% uptime on quickness telling people to JuST DoDgE iT lel

    Thanks forums.

    The arms/Strength variant?
    Hope you enjoy getting pinballed by anyone with CC, lel

    Defense/discipline with diviner.. I dont hit as hard but hard enough.

    Otherwise for valk/berserker its arms/discipline.

    Im just having fun and switching builds here and there on it, CC is not an issue for me but heavy condi pressure is.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Ive been running Diviners build with nearly 100% uptime on quickness telling people to JuST DoDgE iT lel

    Thanks forums.

    The arms/Strength variant?
    Hope you enjoy getting pinballed by anyone with CC, lel

    Defense/discipline with diviner.. I dont hit as hard but hard enough.

    Otherwise for valk/berserker its arms/discipline.

    Im just having fun and switching builds here and there on it, CC is not an issue for me but heavy condi pressure is.

    Interesting.

    Going to look into diviner DPS . Are you running Blood Reckoning or another heal?

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    Ive been running Diviners build with nearly 100% uptime on quickness telling people to JuST DoDgE iT lel

    Thanks forums.

    The arms/Strength variant?
    Hope you enjoy getting pinballed by anyone with CC, lel

    Defense/discipline with diviner.. I dont hit as hard but hard enough.

    Otherwise for valk/berserker its arms/discipline.

    Im just having fun and switching builds here and there on it, CC is not an issue for me but heavy condi pressure is.

    Interesting.

    Going to look into diviner DPS . Are you running Blood Reckoning or another heal?

    Signet for Resistance, also goes nicely with Adrenal Health.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.

    It’s a gimmick, game is all about gimmicks....

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.

    It’s a gimmick, game is all about gimmicks....

    Yes, a gimmick that works well. How many times i been in a 3v1 Berzerker almost dead & he downed us all in one shot. Countless. Nothing you can do when your out of dodges.

    I wonder what would some Berserker people would say if power/Chrono/Mirage could GS 1 shot combo burst in a 450 radius downing everyone in it?

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    It's radius attack now goes threw wall's with massive op damage that can't be blocked or evaded. Damage goes threw no matter what & you die.

    It’s a gimmick, game is all about gimmicks....

    +1

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sylanna.1947 said:
    we need to keep posting on this BS until it gets fixed

    This is pretty ridic.

    Like, I blowtorch someone in the face (melee range, 12s cooldown, frontal cone aoe)

    and they don't cleanse or get resistance or condi convert or condi transfer

    ... for 15 seconds

    then I can do 17k damage.

    Right now zerker is doing that much in 1/3 of a hit of Arc Divider at up to 2.5x the range with under half the cooldown. They can make it unblockable with quickness, and it's direct damage. It can't be cleansed or converted or resisted.

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:
    we need to keep posting on this BS until it gets fixed

    This is pretty ridic.

    Like, I blowtorch someone in the face (melee range, 12s cooldown, frontal cone aoe)

    and they don't cleanse or get resistance or condi convert or condi transfer

    ... for 15 seconds

    then I can do 17k damage.

    Right now zerker is doing that much in 1/3 of a hit of Arc Divider at up to 2.5x the range with under half the cooldown. They can make it unblockable with quickness, and it's direct damage. It can't be cleansed or converted or resisted.

    Play rev and you can heal yourself in one go.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:
    we need to keep posting on this BS until it gets fixed

    This is pretty ridic.

    Like, I blowtorch someone in the face (melee range, 12s cooldown, frontal cone aoe)

    and they don't cleanse or get resistance or condi convert or condi transfer

    ... for 15 seconds

    then I can do 17k damage.

    Right now zerker is doing that much in 1/3 of a hit of Arc Divider at up to 2.5x the range with under half the cooldown. They can make it unblockable with quickness, and it's direct damage. It can't be cleansed or converted or resisted.

    Wasn't what i was saying from the start? & all the zerky warriors was saying i was crazy.... pfff plz

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    Every player who gets one shot OR out played- "thiis class is op/skill is op"
    Same people when their on the other side of the coin- " just dodge its easy" lol

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    interrupts screw arc divider? And what skill can be efficient on interrupting gimmick damage output skill???

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Faux Play.6104 said:

    @coro.3176 said:

    @Sylanna.1947 said:
    we need to keep posting on this BS until it gets fixed

    This is pretty ridic.

    Like, I blowtorch someone in the face (melee range, 12s cooldown, frontal cone aoe)

    and they don't cleanse or get resistance or condi convert or condi transfer

    ... for 15 seconds

    then I can do 17k damage.

    Right now zerker is doing that much in 1/3 of a hit of Arc Divider at up to 2.5x the range with under half the cooldown. They can make it unblockable with quickness, and it's direct damage. It can't be cleansed or converted or resisted.

    Play rev and you can heal yourself in one go.

    Some skills actually bypass the herald damage converted to heal. Happens more when fighting Holos/scrappers and so far only 1 time an arc slice trough healing activation.

    Against engi elites happens a lot.

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