So the commander is he better then the hero of guild wars 1?

The title says it all is the commander the her of Guild Wars 2 an better leader then the one in guild wars 1?

We weren't quite as clear cut a leader back then. We were part of a group, but with some exceptions between NPC deaths there was usually someone we followed - Rurik, Togo, Kormir, Ogden. We were more the de facto champion of the group rather than a straight out Commander and I think that worked so much better.

Were we better, well you;d have to compare achievements, but I prefer to think of my GW1 character as the greater hero. Straightforward, uncomplicated and get on with the job without having to manage people so much.

Plus I took down Shiro mono e mono. And I killed a God. A real God

And Glint. Pretty certain that happened too ;)

What do you think Balthasar was an fake god? But the god that was taken back if I remember Kormir's projection well was taken on with 6 other people. But she credited one hero only. The whole thing was confusing. So who took down that god? One hero or half an dozen heroes? And why Kormir credited only one?

@adormtil.1605 said:What do you think Balthasar was an fake god? But the god that was taken back if I remember Kormir's projection well was taken on with 6 other people. But she credited one hero only. The whole thing was confusing. So who took down that god? One hero or half an dozen heroes? And why Kormir credited only one?

I was being largely tongue in cheek for the killing bit since all missions could be soloed without super powerful God weapons, but I will point out Balthazar was no longer a God. Ultimately it was our team who defeated Abaddon since we recruited more heroes on the way. It's just simpler to recognise our own accomplishment, especially as npcs were more passive back then, or at least early on until charcters started to get a bit more fleshed out (eg Koss, Mhenlo, Vekk, Jora). Not to the extent of our GW2 team though

At the end of the day, the comparisons between what each Hero achieved will boil down to your own perspective. In the story, my PC feels less heroic for a multitude of reasons. I think they gave him too much baggage when they made him the Commander and later a Guild Leader and thus watered him down more despite obviously doing heroic things (he did kill a Dragon in its mind and that's a pretty big accomplishment even if it came about in a stupid way).

We also always seem to have what we need to kill the big baddies just when we need it in GW2 and often right out of the blue. In GW1 it felt more like we wandered in and just kicked kitten in a fight. That might be rose tinted glasses of course, but that's the lasting impression for me

Are npc more active in guild wars 2?

GW1 main character is more like a Legionnaire or a Centurion rather than an Imperator (Charr ranks). Basically the difference between a Captain and a General.

GW2 main character is not a commander despite the title. My character is an errand boy typically reserved for low ranking military personnel. I have never commanded anything in GW2 to justify the title. Plus, I have no subordinates that follows my orders. Instead, everyone else are telling me what to do. The whole commander title is just an unfunny inside joke.

At least in GW1, I can actually command the people that follows me. I can tell them which skill to use, who to attack, where to stand, etc. So I would have to say that my GW1 character is better at commanding even though he's not a commander. While in GW2, my character is a commander without any commanding power.

In my opinion the guild wars 1 hero did more with less,. Granted the only dragons they fought was small compared to elder the dragons but they did fight a god that was almost fully released.

The Hero of Nightfall never led anything more than a few missions, whereas the Commander does lead an elite guild and (despite some "muh spahtlight!" complainers) was indeed second-in-command of an army for a brief time. But at the same time, the Hero of Nightfall seemed far better versed in political matters than the Commander, and could be argued to have not fucked shit up as much as the Commander with his actions. Whether one did greater acts than the other is up to debate, imo, as their acts of combat feel fairly on par. Though the Hero of Nightfall was definitely a lot more gullible during the majority of their heroic career, while the Commander's quite a bit more reckless.

Comparing the two in a list:

The Hero of Nightfall:

1. Greatest acts of combat were killing Abaddon, a full fledged god, with 5 / 8 / 22 allies (depending on whether you consider the canon to be Facing the Truth's show, the party size in GW1, or all henchmen/heroes available + Kormir + PC), imprisoning Dhuum, a former god, with 14 allies (7 reapers, 7 other humans),
2. Other major acts include: Killing 3 liches (Khilbron, Fendi, Zoldark), defeating 3 dragon champion heralds, overpowering another ancient dragon (Kuunavang), thwarting an army of constructs empowered by enslaved souls (Shiro'ken), temporarily uniting two nations that waged war for over 1,000 years (Luxons/Kurzicks), renewing the Sunspear order, overthrowing an oppressive cult leadership (White Mantle), annihilated a xenophobic civil warring faction (Stone Summit), eliminated three powerful criminal organizations (Crimson Skull, Am Fah, and Jade Brotherhood), bringing an entire race of powerful spellcasters to a single survivor (Mursaat), overthrowing charr tyrannical leadership (Hierophant Burntsoul) allowing a rebellion to spark, and defeating various powerful entities (Frostmaw, Iron Forgeman, Cyndr, The Darknesses, Duncan, other dungeon and elite mission bosses)
3. Greatest follies include: Freeing Joko and helping rebuild the foundation of his forces, left a nation to fall (Ascalon), assisted a xenophobic regime in taking power (Ministry of Purity).
4. Did not lead anything but a few missions, was not even part of the small but elite guild they often fought alongside.
5. Was very gullible at first, probably until the events of Nightfall.
6. By the end of it (Winds of Change), they seem... not really what the right word is... pragmatic, I guess. This quest in particular shows what I mean.

The Commander:

1. Greatest acts of combat were killing Zhaitan, an Elder Dragon, with an army, Mordremoth, an Elder Dragon, with an army, and Balthazar, a former god, with a dragon ally and ancient magical weapon.
2. Other major acts include: Killing 1 tyrannical lich (Joko), defeating too-many-to-count lesser dragon champions, 1 herald champion (Scarlet), and 9 greater dragon champions (thus far); thwarting an army of constructs empowered by enslaved souls (Forged), uniting three orders that bickered for a few years, renewing the Sunspear order, ending an oppressive cult (White Mantle), killing the last survivor of an endangered species of powerful spellcasters (Lazarus), depowered, but not annihilated, a xenophobic civil warring faction (Flame Legion), depowered but not annihilated a force waging war for 1,000 years (centaurs), depowered but did not overthrow xenophobic government (Moletariate), depowered but not annihilated powerful criminal organizations (Nightmare Court, Sons of Svanir, Inquest).NOTE: I do not count raids as the Commander's deeds as Glenna acts as if the raiders are random adventurers at first, but all five raids have been seemingly done by the same group canonically. I do count dungeons as the Commander's deeds though, both story and explorable.
3. Greatest follies include: killing two Elder Dragons without realizing the consequences until it was almost (literally) to late and endangered the entire world's existence, allowing a replacement for an Elder Dragon to die (pending....), constantly allowing radical groups (Flame Legion, Inquest, Dredge, centaurs, Nightmare Court, etc.) to reform years later (White Mantle only group wiped out thus far).
4. Second-in-Commander and temporarily First-in-Command of a powerful army (Pact), and leader of a small but elite guild.
5. Reckless, constantly doing plans that backfire in some way, and overall acting as if they don't ever plan things out when people think they do but manage it anyways.
6. The Commander, imo, suffers from depression and anxiety, as evident here, here, and throughout the various failed recruitment attempts in S3 (namely Canach's).

TL;DRI think the Hero of Nightfall began far more naive, and was both used by various parties and never put into a position of leadership because of such, but ultimately they were more competent fighters who more thoroughly devastated their opponents (even if not the first time, by the second time they were wiped out entirely with the only exception being the White Mantle and charr).

The Commander, on the other hand, was thrown into perpetual larger scale conflicts far faster and earlier on than the Hero of Nightfall, but as a consequence has screwed up a lot more. The Commander also seems a hell of a lot more reckless and lacking plans compared to the Hero of Nightfall, which thankfully tends to work out anyways because plot armor mad skillz.

Or to put it in more simpler terms (aka TL;DR of TL;DR):

• Hero never led; Commander leads
• Hero was gullible (at first); Commander is reckless (still is)
• Overtime, Hero became pragmatic; Commander became depressed
• Hero's actions fucked over nations; Commander's actions fucked over the world
• Both overpowered AF and able to take down beings no mortal has the right to take down
• Both tend to fight more or less the same kind of villains (looking at you, Forged'kin!)

We also fought and overcame ourselves.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen is perhaps the greatest battle any of us can face.

?

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:The Hero of Nightfall never led anything more than a few missions, whereas the Commander does lead an elite guild and (despite some "muh spahtlight!" complainers) was indeed second-in-command of an army for a brief time. But at the same time, the Hero of Nightfall seemed far better versed in political matters than the Commander, and could be argued to have not kitten kitten up as much as the Commander with his actions. Whether one did greater acts than the other is up to debate, imo, as their acts of combat feel fairly on par. Though the Hero of Nightfall was definitely a lot more gullible during the majority of their heroic career, while the Commander's quite a bit more reckless.

Comparing the two in a list:

The Hero of Nightfall:

1. Greatest acts of combat were killing Abaddon, a full fledged god, with 5 / 8 / 22 allies (depending on whether you consider the canon to be Facing the Truth's show, the party size in GW1, or all henchmen/heroes available + Kormir + PC), imprisoning Dhuum, a former god, with 14 allies (7 reapers, 7 other humans),
2. Other major acts include: Killing 3 liches (Khilbron, Fendi, Zoldark), defeating 3 dragon champion heralds, overpowering another ancient dragon (Kuunavang), thwarting an army of constructs empowered by enslaved souls (Shiro'ken), temporarily uniting two nations that waged war for over 1,000 years (Luxons/Kurzicks), renewing the Sunspear order, overthrowing an oppressive cult leadership (White Mantle), annihilated a xenophobic civil warring faction (Stone Summit), eliminated three powerful criminal organizations (Crimson Skull, Am Fah, and Jade Brotherhood), bringing an entire race of powerful spellcasters to a single survivor (Mursaat), overthrowing charr tyrannical leadership (Hierophant Burntsoul) allowing a rebellion to spark, and defeating various powerful entities (Frostmaw, Iron Forgeman, Cyndr, The Darknesses, Duncan, other dungeon and elite mission bosses)
3. Greatest follies include: Freeing Joko and helping rebuild the foundation of his forces, left a nation to fall (Ascalon), assisted a xenophobic regime in taking power (Ministry of Purity).
4. Did not lead anything but a few missions, was not even part of the small but elite guild they often fought alongside.
5. Was very gullible at first, probably until the events of Nightfall.
6. By the end of it (Winds of Change), they seem... not really what the right word is... pragmatic, I guess. This quest in particular shows what I mean.

The Commander:

1. Greatest acts of combat were killing Zhaitan, an Elder Dragon, with an army, Mordremoth, an Elder Dragon, with an army, and Balthazar, a former god, with a dragon ally and ancient magical weapon.
2. Other major acts include: Killing 1 tyrannical lich (Joko), defeating too-many-to-count lesser dragon champions, 1 herald champion (Scarlet), and 9 greater dragon champions (thus far); thwarting an army of constructs empowered by enslaved souls (Forged), uniting three orders that bickered for a few years, renewing the Sunspear order, ending an oppressive cult (White Mantle), killing the last survivor of an endangered species of powerful spellcasters (Lazarus), depowered, but not annihilated, a xenophobic civil warring faction (Flame Legion), depowered but not annihilated a force waging war for 1,000 years (centaurs), depowered but did not overthrow xenophobic government (Moletariate), depowered but not annihilated powerful criminal organizations (Nightmare Court, Sons of Svanir, Inquest).NOTE: I do not count raids as the Commander's deeds as Glenna acts as if the raiders are random adventurers at first, but all five raids have been seemingly done by the same group canonically. I do count dungeons as the Commander's deeds though, both story and explorable.
3. Greatest follies include: killing two Elder Dragons without realizing the consequences until it was almost (literally) to late and endangered the entire world's existence, allowing a replacement for an Elder Dragon to die (pending....), constantly allowing radical groups (Flame Legion, Inquest, Dredge, centaurs, Nightmare Court, etc.) to reform years later (White Mantle only group wiped out thus far).
4. Second-in-Commander and temporarily First-in-Command of a powerful army (Pact), and leader of a small but elite guild.
5. Reckless, constantly doing plans that backfire in some way, and overall acting as if they don't ever plan things out when people think they do but manage it anyways.
6. The Commander, imo, suffers from depression and anxiety, as evident here, here, and throughout the various failed recruitment attempts in S3 (namely Canach's).

TL;DRI think the Hero of Nightfall began far more naive, and was both used by various parties and never put into a position of leadership because of such, but ultimately they were more competent fighters who more thoroughly devastated their opponents (even if not the first time, by the second time they were wiped out entirely with the only exception being the White Mantle and charr).

The Commander, on the other hand, was thrown into perpetual larger scale conflicts far faster and earlier on than the Hero of Nightfall, but as a consequence has screwed up a lot more. The Commander also seems a hell of a lot more reckless and lacking plans compared to the Hero of Nightfall, which thankfully tends to work out anyways because plot armor mad skillz.

Or to put it in more simpler terms (aka TL;DR of TL;DR):

• Hero never led; Commander leads
• Hero was gullible (at first); Commander is reckless (still is)
• Overtime, Hero became pragmatic; Commander became depressed
• Hero's actions kitten over nations; Commander's actions kitten over the world
• Both overpowered AF and able to take down beings no mortal has the right to take down
• Both tend to fight more or less the same kind of villains (looking at you, Forged'kin!)

I would like to point out that Abaddon's power was never fully realized when the Hero of Nightfall and company defeated him. He was still imprisoned by the Five Gods.

@Randulf.7614 said:We also fought and overcame ourselves.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen is perhaps the greatest battle any of us can face.

?

Well, putting it like that, the Hero did such once. The Commander has done it.... one, two three.... four times by now I think? Once as a bonus in Hidden Arcana, then again with Caladbolg Regrown, once more in the Shining Blade secrets, then as the meta in Elon Riverlands.

I think the Commander has proven that their recklessness can get themself killed by now. :smiley:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:I would like to point out that Abaddon's power was never fully realized when the Hero of Nightfall and company defeated him. He was still imprisoned by the Five Gods.

True. Abaddon was only at 3/8th power by the only measurement we really have (three of eight locks said to be undone by Varesh's three rituals in dat descriptions of locations, which is pseudo-canon at best), just powerful enough to break the chains Balthazar forged.

But also keep in mind that Abaddon was twice as powerful as the other gods, so 3/8ths of Abaddon is akin to 3/4ths of any other god. Not a 100% god's might, but nothing to sneeze at, even if it's an army of 22 elite warriors blessed by the gods to prevent instakill.

Still beats anything the Commander did, IMO. The Commander's greatest feat of personal strength would be taking on Mordremoth's mind with two allies while Mordy was distracted with an army.

Truth be told, I believe the commander is the reincarnation of the gw1 hero because of the very tiny hints some npcs have thrown (Dunkoro and Turai's ghost's special dialogues). But still, I think the commander's personal strength is superior of that of the gw1 hero, mostly because they have been able to take down several incredible foes almost single handedly (and sometimes completely alone), while the gw1 hero always fought alonside few but strong allies.

In terms of archievement... I do think the commander has surpassed the gw1 hero, since twice have they killed beings that are at the same level as gods (if you doubt it, remember that Zhaitan was heavily weakened at the end of the personal story, and Mordremoth got hit right at his weakpoint, but both were incredibly powerful beings, one made a whole sunken island resurface which in turn reshaped Tyria, and the other easily wiped out the pact fleet). Has defeated two demi gods (I do believe raid bosses count, so I do count Dhuum here), and a great number of powerful beings (several dragon champions, both greater (like the shadow of the dragon) and lesser ones, Scarlet, Lazarus, Balthazar's war hounds, and many other foes more).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well, putting it like that, the Hero did such once. The Commander has done it.... one, two three.... four times by now I think? Once as a bonus in Hidden Arcana, then again with Caladbolg Regrown, once more in the Shining Blade secrets, then as the meta in Elon Riverlands.

I think the Commander has proven that their recklessness can get themself killed by now. :smiley:

You do realize the scale of the danger the commander has to deal with? gw1 hero had to deal with villains that sought to conquer the world, and only one that had the power to obliterate it (abaddon), whereas the commander have to deal with abbadon's level kind of threat since the very beggining of the story with Zhaitan, and more so now that the planet's very integrity is in danger. Of course one will make mistakes, when the forces at play are godly in power.

Besides, The Commander wasn't the only one that screwed up badly (gw1 hero gave the scepter of Orr to Khilbron, who ended up freeing the titans which caused massive troubles through central tyria, Freed Joko who later practically destroyed the Elona that once was, alongside the sunspears, and helped an organization (ministry of purity) win such influence that would end up changing a whole empire, which in turn ended up kicking the tengu out of cantha.

EDIT:

But also keep in mind that Abaddon was twice as powerful as the other gods, so 3/8ths of Abaddon is akin to 3/4ths of any other god. Not a 100% god's might, but nothing to sneeze at, even if it's an army of 22 elite warriors blessed by the gods to prevent instakill.

Any source on this?

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:We also fought and overcame ourselves.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen is perhaps the greatest battle any of us can face.

?

Ill have to go back check those, since i only remember the elon meta and i sometimes discount open world for commander canon since it can be a grey area

As mentioned in-game in the Hall of Monuments we are a descendant of that hero in GW1 thus we can get all those minis and skins.Different yes, we are acting more like a leader than our ancestor but we'll see how this evolves as GW2 is not done yet.

@Nafets.1238 said:As mentioned in-game in the Hall of Monuments we are a descendant of that hero in GW1 thus we can get all those minis and skins.Different yes, we are acting more like a leader than our ancestor but we'll see how this evolves as GW2 is not done yet.

Pretty certain my charr, norn, Asura or sylvari arent descendants of my gw1 hero ?

I must point out that many of the enemies the commander fights are because of the actions of GW1 hero. So charr and flame legion was an unfinished job from GW1 hero, Orr and its undead well its because of the GW1 hero for giving them the reason to sunk the kingdom, white mantle was GW1 hero not finishing the job, Joko well that was sloppy work from GW1 hero and for what is worth GW2 hero dealt with them quite well. In case of Joko he took an bad situation and made use of it. He used the army of an lich to beat another army. That was commanding, strategist and executing. Who says he does not command.

@adormtil.1605 said:I must point out that many of the enemies the commander fights are because of the actions of GW1 hero. So charr and flame legion was an unfinished job from GW1 hero, Orr and its undead well its because of the GW1 hero for giving them the reason to sunk the kingdom, white mantle was GW1 hero not finishing the job, Joko well that was sloppy work from GW1 hero and for what is worth GW2 hero dealt with them quite well. In case of Joko he took an bad situation and made use of it. He used the army of an lich to beat another army. That was commanding, strategist and executing. Who says he does not command.

I wouldn't say most of those things are the gw1 hero's responsibility, I mean the hero didn't have the obligation to assist the charr in their internal struggle regarding the flame legion, nor eliminate the charr as a threat since the charr were mostly united back then, and a whole race united isn't something one person, even being the strongest hero at the time, can defeat. The cataclysm wasn't the hero's responsibility at all, it was Vizier Khildron who intentionally read a forbiden scroll and sunk orr into the dephs. The white mantle went into hiding in the maguuma jungle after their defeat at the battle of lion's arch, so no one could have expected that the mantle could recover and try to take Kryta again since, at the time, it seemed completely defeated.Joko was indeed a mistake, its understandable that the hero had to free him to cross the desolation, but still they should have dealt with Joko after abbadon's defeat. Because of this the beautiful Elona that once was is practically gone.

@"Pax.3548" said:Truth be told, I believe the commander is the reincarnation of the gw1 hero because of the very tiny hints some npcs have thrown (Dunkoro and Turai's ghost's special dialogues). But still, I think the commander's personal strength is superior of that of the gw1 hero, mostly because they have been able to take down several incredible foes almost single handedly (and sometimes completely alone), while the gw1 hero always fought alonside few but strong allies.

Which foe was defeated single handedly?

Zhaitan was fought with an army, elite group, and powerful magical tools. Scarlet was fought with an elite group. Shadow of the Dragon was fought with an elite ally / group (depending on which encounter). Mordremoth was fought with an elite group and an army. Caudecus with two elite allies. Lazarus with an elite ally. Balthazar with an elite ally and powerful magical tool. Joko wasn't even defeated by the Commander, technically.

The Commander has not taken down a single foe single-handedly. Besides grunts, that is.

Of course, same can be largely said for the Hero too, as (almost) all missions were in parties of 4 to 8. But the Hero never had an army backing them, even if you count all available heroes and henchmen.

In terms of archievement... I do think the commander has surpassed the gw1 hero, since twice have they killed beings that are at the same level as gods (if you doubt it, remember that Zhaitan was heavily weakened at the end of the personal story, and Mordremoth got hit right at his weakpoint, but both were incredibly powerful beings, one made a whole sunken island resurface which in turn reshaped Tyria, and the other easily wiped out the pact fleet). Has defeated two demi gods (I do believe raid bosses count, so I do count Dhuum here), and a great number of powerful beings (several dragon champions, both greater (like the shadow of the dragon) and lesser ones, Scarlet, Lazarus, Balthazar's war hounds, and many other foes more).

I'd say argue that gods are greater than Zhaitan or Mordremoth's states. While imprisoned and at only 1/4th of his full power, Abaddon twisted the landscape of Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment through the minds of those who knew of him, even if they were his enemies. The Elder Dragons could only ever influence what's directly around them and their minions until Kralkatorrik got a boost from two Elder Dragons and a demigod.

The way we've seen it, and the way Kormir mentions the Elder Dragons' power, it feels like "at default" the Elder Dragons are weaker than the gods, but they're capable of surpassing the gods' might. Kralkatorrik, it feels, is the only one close to surpassing a god's power.

Not to mention that Zhaitan was not only weakened from the Pact's campaign, but by the gods themselves while in hibernation (per Arah Seer path).

And when we met Kormir, her momentary anger caused the area around her to darken and begin falling apart. Not even Kralkatorrik managed that yet.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well, putting it like that, the Hero did such once. The Commander has done it.... one, two three.... four times by now I think? Once as a bonus in Hidden Arcana, then again with Caladbolg Regrown, once more in the Shining Blade secrets, then as the meta in Elon Riverlands.

I think the Commander has proven that their recklessness can get themself killed by now. :smiley:

Yes, I do realize that. If you read my long post, you'd see that I account for every single one of the Hero's and the Commander's exploits. I also account for every one their fuckups (that they don't fix).

I, however, would not compare Zhaitan and Mordremoth to "Abaddon level threats" for reasons stated above. Greater than Shiro, Khilbron, and Varesh, but less than still-imprisoned Abaddon.

But also keep in mind that Abaddon was twice as powerful as the other gods, so 3/8ths of Abaddon is akin to 3/4ths of any other god. Not a 100% god's might, but nothing to sneeze at, even if it's an army of 22 elite warriors blessed by the gods to prevent instakill.

Which part? The twice as powerful, or the 3/8th strength? The former comes from a few lore documents for Nightfall that got released to the Asian communities (here is one, and here is the other under fan translation). The 3/8th strength comes from gw.dat descriptions of various locations, so they're as said pseudo-canon at best but it's the only indication we really have; you can find those descriptions here or on their respective location's article on the GWW.

The 22 elite warriors come from counting heroes, henchmen, and Kormir available during Abaddon's Gate mission.

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:We also fought and overcame ourselves.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen is perhaps the greatest battle any of us can face.

?

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcana_Obscura#Achievements (name of foe changed based on your profession, always "Doppleganger ")
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Remnant_of_a_Hero (from The Sword Regrown)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manifestation_of_Self-Doubt
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Character_Name

And open world commander doesn't really feel like a gray area to me anymore. Ever since Heart of Thorns, they've repeatedly made NPCs vocally call the PC "Commander" as part of event dialogue.

@adormtil.1605 said:I must point out that many of the enemies the commander fights are because of the actions of GW1 hero. So charr and flame legion was an unfinished job from GW1 hero, Orr and its undead well its because of the GW1 hero for giving them the reason to sunk the kingdom, white mantle was GW1 hero not finishing the job, Joko well that was sloppy work from GW1 hero and for what is worth GW2 hero dealt with them quite well. In case of Joko he took an bad situation and made use of it. He used the army of an lich to beat another army. That was commanding, strategist and executing. Who says he does not command.

The GW1 hero didn't give the charr reason to sink Orr... That was Abaddon's manipulation through the Titans ordering them to do it. The charr sank Orr and caused the Searing at the very start of GW1, literally at the end of Day 1 of the game.

And the GW1 hero had nothing to do with the Elder Dragons' awakening, the dredge turning evil, the Nightmare Court, Inquest, centaurs, etc. Those threats either predate the GW1 hero and the hero was barely involved, or came well after the GW1 hero.

Similarly, the GW1 hero couldn't go and wipe out the entire charr race. They did, however, help spark the revolution that would lead to the Flame Legion's downfall. So I wouldn't say the Flame Legion still being around is the Hero's fault, rather the fault [as explained here]() lies in the three legions bickering over territory instead of chasing down the remnant Flame Legion.

There's only four things that the Hero left unfixed by the end of GW1:

1. Ascalon's downfall (rather inevitable tbh)
2. Unleashing Joko
3. Leaving some White Mantle remnants (also on Kieran Thackeray though)
4. Ministry of Purity's reign and Cantha's xenophobia

As for the Hero using Joko's army... technically they didn't. They freed Joko in order to learn how to cross the Desolation; the Awakened had no direct involvement with the Sunspears' actions against Abaddon's forces except to reclaim the Bone Palace.

I’ll def need to look at that hidden arcana one. I have no idea if I ever even knew about it at the time.

As for the Hero using Joko's army... technically they didn't. They freed Joko in order to learn how to cross the Desolation; the Awakened had no direct involvement with the Sunspears' actions against Abaddon's forces except to reclaim the Bone Palace.

@Randulf.7614 said:I’ll def need to look at that hidden arcana one. I have no idea if I ever even knew about it at the time.

Arcana Obscura*, made a misremembrance at first. It was one of the achievements, done at the end of it all (before handing over the torch of divine fire).

@adormtil.1605 said:

As for the Hero using Joko's army... technically they didn't. They freed Joko in order to learn how to cross the Desolation; the Awakened had no direct involvement with the Sunspears' actions against Abaddon's forces except to reclaim the Bone Palace.

I meant the commander used Joko's army to beat another army. You know the plan he made and executed without freeing Joko. By the way you know how Zaithan raised an entire kingdom from the sea was that not landscape changing similar to what Abbadon did?

Thought you meant the Hero used Joko's army, but okay.

As for the second bit, re-read my post. To quote:

While imprisoned and at only 1/4th of his full power, Abaddon twisted the landscape of Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment through the minds of those who knew of him, even if they were his enemies. The Elder Dragons could only ever influence what's directly around them and their minions until Kralkatorrik got a boost from two Elder Dragons and a demigod.

Abaddon magically twisted Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment in the Mists.

Zhaitan physically lifted Orr from underneath it.

Similarly, Jormag cracked the Shiverpeaks that were under his feat, Kralkatorrik branded the landscape within reach of his breath, and Mordremoth spread vines from his body to expand his reach.

Every Elder Dragons' corruption can only be created when in direct contact with the Elder Dragon or their minions. Abaddon, however, and only at 1/4th of his power at the time, was able to twist landscapes from across dimensions merely because people knew about his existence.

The difference in powers and capabilities and, most importantly, the difference in reach is astronomical there. The only Elder Dragon to come close to that level of power is post-PoF Kralkatorrik, after absorbing a demigod's power.

@"adormtil.1605" said:The title says it all is the commander the her of Guild Wars 2 an better leader then the one in guild wars 1?

I'd put them about on par with each other. I'd even say there might be something to that whole "the commander is in the spirit of the GW1 hero" thing, regardless if you're a race other than human. Doesn't stop Dunkoro from saying something to that effect.

@Nafets.1238 said:As mentioned in-game in the Hall of Monuments we are a descendant of that hero in GW1 thus we can get all those minis and skins.Different yes, we are acting more like a leader than our ancestor but we'll see how this evolves as GW2 is not done yet.

Nothing about descendancy is said:

I recognize the worthiness of your soul, hero. I cling to this world in order to guard these items, destined for you. Centuries have passed, and you're finally here. Collect your legacy. The time has come.

Kimmes merely says that the Commander is of the same worthiness as the Hero.

While imprisoned and at only 1/4th of his full power, Abaddon twisted the landscape of Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment through the minds of those who knew of him, even if they were his enemies. The Elder Dragons could only ever influence what's directly around them and their minions until Kralkatorrik got a boost from two Elder Dragons and a demigod.

Abaddon magically twisted Elona from the heart of the Realm of Torment in the Mists.

Zhaitan physically lifted Orr from underneath it.

Similarly, Jormag cracked the Shiverpeaks that were under his feat, Kralkatorrik branded the landscape within reach of his breath, and Mordremoth spread vines from his body to expand his reach.

Every Elder Dragons' corruption can only be created when in direct contact with the Elder Dragon or their minions. Abaddon, however, and only at 1/4th of his power at the time, was able to twist landscapes from across dimensions merely because people knew about his existence.

The difference in powers and capabilities and, most importantly, the difference in reach is astronomical there. The only Elder Dragon to come close to that level of power is post-PoF Kralkatorrik, after absorbing a demigod's power.

Yeah but that was Abbadon he might have been the strongest god remember after he was killed by an number of people you can number them when Kormir shows the scene of his death, an lot of his power was absorbed by the elder dragons and what was left was taken by Kormir which was enough for her to be become an god. So his power might have been more then what the rest of the gods pack individually. Or like that former god of the death which can not be killed its an ability that comes with his dominion.

None of Abaddon's power was absorbed by the Elder Dragons. But it was stated that Abaddon was able to defeat two gods, as I brought up several times over now.

This, however, does not change how drastically higher Abaddon's reach is compared to any Elder Dragon prior to Kralkatorrik absorbing a demigod's power.

I also wouldn't take Dhuum's own words of his immortality for granted. Villains are perpetual liars, especially overconfident ones, and ArenaNet has a habit of utilizing unreliable narrators. Just because Grenth "couldn't" kill Dhuum doesn't make Dhuum immortal (we do not know the circumstances of Grenth's inability to kill Dhuum; for all we know, it was a choice to not kill Dhuum rather than the physical incapability of Dhuum being unable to die). Though if it were true, I'd mark that as yet another reason why the gods are superior to the Elder Dragons - the god of death cannot die, but the Elder Dragon of death can (and quite easily at that).