Staff should have blocks — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Staff should have blocks

Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

So, the recent balance patch seems to be pushing hard to make staff the go-to weapon for Daredevil since the shorter range swipe favors the all-in brawler style of fighting over the in-and-out style of D/P and such.

However, Staff is far from strong enough to perform in that role and I don't think anyone wants to see this weapon buffed in a way that returns it to the vault spamming days.

Because of this, I suggest putting some blocks staff skills. This would make a staff thief a more viable bruiser-style fighter while also fitting the theme of a melee staff.

How to do this? It'd probably be best done by redesigning at least one skill instead of putting it on something that's already frequently used like Weakening Strike or something rarely used like Debilitating/Dust Strike.

If it were me, I'd replace Debilitating Strike with a new attack that moves forward striking, while blocking attacks. Vault already works as a good withdraw with longer range, so Debilitating Arc is relatively redundant. For damage, I'd put the new attack at something lower than Weakening Strike, but add a modifier that increases damage done if the target is weakened or blinded. Initiative cost should be at least 4 if not 5. This would mean that players would be incentivized to use the skill after first casting Weakening or Dust Strike, but wouldn't be incentivized to just spam the skill.

Comments

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was thinking the same thing the other day that at the end of each staff attack, it applies a 1s Block.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A block might make Dust Strike too strong but wherever it could be fit in, change Dust Strike animation along with staff and rifle idle & running animations. A block probably would have to be infused some where that would give it some frequency though like Vincent suggested, especially since Swipe will only get you 600 out if you get trampled by a squad or something. You can't expect to last forever but you should be able to peel with your group or have some control of your disengagement.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd go with projectile blocks on 2 if they are not melee attacks, maybe also on the third attack of the autoattack chain, but only for projectiles. They have already very good melee defense with the blinds and evades.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I was thinking the same thing the other day that at the end of each staff attack, it applies a 1s Block.

    Wait what.
    Not sure if serious or not (not trying to be offensive) but I really don't think that's a good thing to implement.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always thought to myself that Revenants Staff skill Warding Rift should have belonged to the DD staff, most likely instead of Dust Strike which should have been swapped to Rev.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I was thinking the same thing the other day that at the end of each staff attack, it applies a 1s Block.

    Wait what.
    Not sure if serious or not (not trying to be offensive) but I really don't think that's a good thing to implement.

    It's not a suggestion, it's just something I was thinking about. Also, I'm only thinking about adding it to the staff auto-attacks (sorry for failing to clarify it). Like seeing the DD has the deflection at the 3rd strike, having a 1s Block on the first two strikes will give DD staying power.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I was thinking the same thing the other day that at the end of each staff attack, it applies a 1s Block.

    Wait what.
    Not sure if serious or not (not trying to be offensive) but I really don't think that's a good thing to implement.

    It's not a suggestion, it's just something I was thinking about. Also, I'm only thinking about adding it to the staff auto-attacks (sorry for failing to clarify it). Like seeing the DD has the deflection at the 3rd strike, having a 1s Block on the first two strikes will give DD staying power.

    Maybe, just maybe, on one of the AAs, I really think having it on two would result in endless block spam. One sec block on the 2nd is enough time to process through the last AA skill and thus basically have Block permanently.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭✭

    Look I know staff gets a bad rap because Vault spam destroys silver, but back when there were esports in this game it was pretty well known that the workhorse skills were staff 3 and 4. You broke out Vault to punish a disabled foe, or in bigger fights where everyone couldn't pay attention to dodging you (and if they did it caused them more problems). It was your money shot, like finishing people with Backstab combos.

    Debilitating Arc and Dust Strike are your Shadow Shot. Don't mess with the workhorse of the set. If you want to screw with something look at Weakening Charge - now that is a bad skill that you barely ever use.

  • Id go with cost reduction to dust strike instead of giving a block

  • killy.3278killy.3278 Member ✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    Id go with cost reduction to dust strike instead of giving a block

    Yea I'd like this route too. Having a 3ini on the only blind and ranged poke for staff can go a long way for dueling imo.

    That and fix staff2 reliability so the set has some real offensive options.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would put reflects from last aa chain hits to Staff 2 so we can utilize it more reliably than, with pure rng, and than maybe put some blocks on last aa chain part.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2019

    @Ensign.2189 said:
    Debilitating Arc and Dust Strike are your Shadow Shot. Don't mess with the workhorse of the set. If you want to screw with something look at Weakening Charge - now that is a bad skill that you barely ever use.

    Idk what you are on but i want some. Weakening charge is the best skill on the set in tearms of damage, it is the only skill on staff that you can use with steal to an actual effect and it applies weakness, calling it bad is beyond insane. On the other hand dust strike is the worst blind application thief has access to across all weapon sets, it does not compare to any other skill in terms of power, let alone shadow shot.
    If any skill is to be reworked in to some kind of block (good idea bdw) it is dust strike; maybe to a flip over skill where you block for a second, and if successfully it flips over to the current dust strike with the initiative costs split to 4 for the block part and 2 for the dust strike flip over.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:
    I always thought to myself that Revenants Staff skill Warding Rift should have belonged to the DD staff, most likely instead of Dust Strike which should have been swapped to Rev.

    Since half the stuff that became revenant traits was suggested in the thief section of the "ask the community" event anet did before hot, it doesn't surprise me you feel that way.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    I like this suggestion.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

  • @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

  • @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭

    I am sure they thought Bandit's Defense was meant to serve this purpose. The base problem though is that melee needs to cover ground since range is so powerful in this game. Burning utilities just to get close to an opponent is a quick way to get dead which is why the staff goes mostly unused in WvW.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    What if they just give Staff a passive ability in Staff Mastery trait to grant block every few seconds very similar to Guardian's Aegis? So instead of gaining endurance per init spent we can get a 1s block for each init spent, of course with an ICD of probably 10s.

    EDIT: for clarity.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

    but, thief isn't a duelist ^^
    thief is a decapper /+1'er

    sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

    but, thief isn't a duelist ^^
    thief is a decapper /+1'er

    sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

    I kno man but I was just saying if the dev's are pushing staff into more of a close range brawler which I think is what the swipe change was soposed to signify though no one can be sure of what arenanet thinking or if they even are lol

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

    but, thief isn't a duelist ^^
    thief is a decapper /+1'er

    sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

    I kno man but I was just saying if the dev's are pushing staff into more of a close range brawler which I think is what the swipe change was soposed to signify though no one can be sure of what arenanet thinking or if they even are lol

    obviously staff is close range, else they would have 450-900 range, no?

    the issue is staff is overshadowed by other (core) weapons d/p or s/d
    either staff needs a buff, or the other sets a nerf

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @MoonHeaven.2430 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Make skill 3 a 1 1/2s channeled block.
    Make skill 4 a “withdraw” style evade but leaves a trail of dust that blinds foes.

    So from what I have seen of the Elite specs fighting style, it resembles a Martial arts style staff in real life. That said I disagree with a block as a staff does not block attacks from weapons as much as parries or deflects them. I agree we need something defensive in the skill set, perhaps a spinning staff that deflects attacks, if successful the staff skill changes to an activatable skill that delivers a counterblow to the melee ranged opponent, ranged opponents are harder to deflect. ranged attacks should have a 50/50 chance of deflection.

    I love using a staff but I wish it had more traits of an actual martial arts staff that it is based off, dodging, parrying and counterattacking instead of just its heavy attacks.

    I’m not opposed to the Parry/Counterattack. I rather it’s automatic counter attack once it blocks (rather than an activated one like bandits defense), similar to spear skills from both Warrior and Thief.

    Btw, revenant has a staff channeled block. so...

    warrior has a rifle knockback
    hurry also ask for one on thief

    /s

    why do people allways go "but this class also has it!"

    isn't the point of different classes to play different and feel unique, so why try to make them all feel the same?

    Because ANET keeps pushing for staff DD but doesn’t really give them proper tools to sustain.

    And yes. I want knockback on my DE rifle.
    and cookies
    and muffins

    i mean...

    you have an evade on staff 3
    you have an evade on staff 5
    you have 3 dodges compared to 2

    blind on staff 4
    weakness on staff 2

    punnishing strikes has a build in reflect (lol??? reflect in auto attack chain???)

    that is pretty much everything to shut down physical-damage classes with or evades, or blind, or weakness, or reflects

    if you want to turn staff from a dps weapon (which on top of all that, staff still is see pve meta) to a utility weapon like said rev, then you'd need to shave in alot of the damage
    i'm not sure if pve thiefs would like such staff overhaul, and redesigning a full weapon is still different then splitting 1 skill for pvp balance

    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

    but, thief isn't a duelist ^^
    thief is a decapper /+1'er

    sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

    I kno man but I was just saying if the dev's are pushing staff into more of a close range brawler which I think is what the swipe change was soposed to signify though no one can be sure of what arenanet thinking or if they even are lol

    obviously staff is close range, else they would have 450-900 range, no?

    the issue is staff is overshadowed by other (core) weapons d/p or s/d
    either staff needs a buff, or the other sets a nerf

    Yeah losing all the range on steal and the trait changes kinda makes me think they want staff to be thiefs 1v1 oriented build but in reality the staff buffs were bit of a net nerf for dueling and really hit DD d/P hard. I donno I think they tried but just wasn't thought out enough or far enough. I'd even be ok with bit less mobility if it meant some staying power within the fights.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ensign.2189 said:
    Look I know staff gets a bad rap because Vault spam destroys silver, but back when there were esports in this game it was pretty well known that the workhorse skills were staff 3 and 4. You broke out Vault to punish a disabled foe, or in bigger fights where everyone couldn't pay attention to dodging you (and if they did it caused them more problems). It was your money shot, like finishing people with Backstab combos.

    Debilitating Arc and Dust Strike are your Shadow Shot. Don't mess with the workhorse of the set. If you want to screw with something look at Weakening Charge - now that is a bad skill that you barely ever use.

    This is true of Weakening Charge for the time period that you're talking about, but since that period, WC has been improved as a damage-dealing attack. I can't speak to how well it works as such since staff overall still seems to be a weak option overall for PvP and I have little experience using it in this game type. However, as long as they keep the 20% damage increase that was applied in the July '18 patch a PvE-only thing, I think they could get away with putting a block on the WC animation.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    Problem is u can name all the block and evades which seems like alot and that it would be enough but the reality is with the cost of ini for staff invades and endurance cost on evades u run out fast and most times classes out sustain ur dps and if they connect 2 hits on u ur in downstate. Even with all evades available sustain on thief isn't enough these days to be a viable dueler.

    but, thief isn't a duelist ^^
    thief is a decapper /+1'er

    sacrifice your mobility, and i'll approve for better sustain

    Thief is, yes, but Daredevil is supposed to be a brawler and that's what dev's cited as their reason for nerfing DrD in a way that killed D/P DrD. Trouble is, it just doesn't work as one until they make some serious changes and making staff a brawler-capable weapon would be a way that they could address this.

  • i for one suggest having the ability to have the chain skill 3 for auto attack 1 to be able to be used without hitting anything and be able to twirl staff and reflect/block at will like the old mesmer auto attack

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