New Eternal Coliseum Changes - I Don't Like It

Some honest feedback after a couple days of playing in it, and I don't want to hear any of that "Oh you're Ranger main with a LB" because I've actually been practicing Berserker/Spellbreaker and Reaper/Scourge in unranked for the last couple of days.

Here is what I feel is wrong with the new additions to Eternal Coliseum:

• Too much visual clutter everywhere now. It feels like I'm trying to pvp in a fractal design instead of a pvp map.
• The new obstacles directly around the node, maybe up to 200 radius from the node were good additions. All of the other clutter in the open areas of the side nodes is too much to the point that It's labyrinthine like. Feels like I'm chasing players through a Super Adventure Box Beedog maze. It greatly favors things that can instant teleport through objects and offers them way too much cover. It also greatly nerfs anything that does not have raw run/walk speed. Things like a Warrior that normally chase with line of sight gap closers cannot keep up with perma 33% swift builds or builds with super speed. It's too much. Either reduce the height of this stuff so it's jumpable in every location or remove the labyrinths entirely.
• The 4 pillars around the mid node are a questionable addition at best. The ramps with pillars on the sides of mid were already providing plenty of kiting & LOS potential. These pillars need to be removed or at the least turned into short boxes. It's too much visual clutter and it makes mid fights feel clunky and sloppy to play around.

Eternal Coliseum used to be my favorite map right alongside of Legacy, but I feel like these changes have deranged the smooth dynamic the map once had. I want to point out that I LIKE the addition of more obstacles and things to do or play around in maps, but this kind of stuff needs to be added sparsely and in the right places. A good example of what I mean would be Temple Of The Silent Storm. When you go down to Tranq, you're going into a cave with a bridge that you can run under, with ice pillars to LOS around, and it doesn't feel visually cluttered at all. Everything is kind of just in the right place, and none of the positioning of those obstacles is too rewarding for classes that can teleport through things.

I wanted Coliseum to have a bit more line of sight but it feels like they went like 30% overboard.

My DD Tempest loves the map changes..My PP Thief hated it.

Good thing I dont play thief much lmao

Maybe I'm just playing devils advocate, but perhaps it's time to have a map significantly different from Foefire.

Most PvP map follows similar format where the same mobility/teleport skills can be used to get across open spaces between nodes. This felt like the old coliseum lacks it's own identity.

There is a bit too much clutter.

should be renamed to Eternal Barnyard, because that's what it feels like

yes... the old one is dull, still better than this, feels like we entered the place post match; actually gives me an idea... why not clean the place up and have destructible terrain?

I love it. You can move and jump around on things, it feels like an actual fight rather than a straight line. I guess if you played cheese ranger or thief it's bad, but not for me.

I agree. I hate the map now. Used to by my fav. Sure adding a or 2 more things will be good for the game. Now it just feels like a maze. U can in infinitely kite. Let's hope they don't wreck forefire too.

Looks like all developers got a chance to decorate this map as their Guild Hall. Or maybe, someone dropped their box of Leggo ?. Tone it down please.

Coliseum is pretty much the best map in the game now (at least when the imbalance from the sides got fixed already). No one who knows how to use kiting and los will have any problem with it, no matter what class (except maybe thief and rev, because both relies very much on teleports barely working with that many no-teleport spots but theyx can still get kills on the points). But there where always maps better and worse for specific class mechanics than for others. LB ranger hate it only because their lame 1500 range onehsot form the other side of the map can be countered now, they are not even one of the classes get rekt mechanically by this map, they are just not totally lame on that map anymore.

I like it.

I dislike the mid node changes. There is now too much stuff and it's too close to the capture point. Just a cluster-you-know-what.

Love these changes, been my favorite map now it’s even better. Kite for life, los and no more kitten ranged spammm attacks, full of no port spots so cheeky thieves / revs could not simply burst down targets. Some obstacles may be removed though, as some areas are closer to maze still a really good direction. More changes please, keep up the good work Anet and give a little love for Mine on FoN also some kiting spots on Djinn’s mid. Thx

I like the changes in general (was too ranged friendly) but they really went over the top with the additions. Would be nice to remove a few of those bushes and boxes

Well, it went from the best ranger map to the worst which is probably why you dislike most of the chances.I on the other hand love them, the kiting potential is out of this world and it allows for some skillful play.

I'd much rather have this than getting sniped by a longbow ranger on a no port from 2k range.

@crepuscular.9047 said:should be renamed to Eternal Barnyard, because that's what it feels like

yes... the old one is dull, still better than this, feels like we entered the place post match; actually gives me an idea... why not clean the place up and have destructible terrain?

That's actually not a bad idea. LOSes that have small health bars, that respawn every time the artifacts respawn or something.

@Swing.6439 said:I love it. You can move and jump around on things, it feels like an actual fight rather than a straight line. I guess if you played cheese ranger or thief it's bad, but not for me.

The map is way too rewarding for S/D Thieves to the point that it is impossible to actually kill an S/D Thief that well utilizes Infiltrator's Strike inside the Hedge & Wooden Board Labyrinths. I've also seen Necromancers just abusing the hell out of Spectral Walk in the same way. Pretty much anything that teleports in and then casts some return teleport is too strong in environments with many hallways and mazes. The disengage factor for such skills becomes outrageous in such environments.

@"bravan.3876" said:Coliseum is pretty much the best map in the game now (at least when the imbalance from the sides got fixed already). No one who knows how to use kiting and los will have any problem with it, no matter what class (except maybe thief and rev, because both relies very much on teleports barely working with that many no-teleport spots but theyx can still get kills on the points). But there where always maps better and worse for specific class mechanics than for others. LB ranger hate it only because their lame 1500 range onehsot form the other side of the map can be countered now, they are not even one of the classes get rekt mechanically by this map, they are just not totally lame on that map anymore.

Anyone who knows how to use LOS & Kiting would agree that the right level of LOS & Kite terrain is better exampled by what is provided in a map like Capricorn. The mid node and side nodes have plenty of obstacles slightly off node to play around, but not too close to the node. The very very very very important thing to note here about how other conquest maps have built our historical competitive game balancing, is that up until now, if you were going to contest a node, you do it in the open. This means that if you want to cap that objective, it comes with the risk of standing in the most vulnerable spots in the map. This in turn helps stabilize & balance the purpose of 4x job roles: Team Fighter/Support/+1 Decap/Side Noder or sometimes Bunker. If we start getting on a trend of adding TOO MUCH LOS and inherit defensive positioning around nodes, it 100% absolutely is going to result in this effect: "Less Damage, More Sustain." Is this really going to be a good thing? Let me give you a great example. When I first entered new Coliseum while screwing around on a Berserker and realized it was impossible to catch an S/D Thief in one of the side node labyrinths, I thought to myself: "Wow, if I was on my Druid kiting through here with CA Stealth disengage resets, juking people around corners, ignoring LOS gap closing, it would seriously take 4 to 5 people chasing me to actually have a realistic chance of killing something like a Druid in here. And I mean 4 or 5 good players." <- That is no embellishment. Each time something like a Druid stealths, and then jumps over a weird spot and lands a big heal reset and then reveals, then the opponents chasing it have to start jumping over obstacles and try to get into some position to use their skills that require LOS, and by the time they do it, the person running is already around another corner and impossible to target again. The only skills they're going to hit you with, are melee 1 spamish type skills that can cleave through objects, and no class has enough of that stuff at a high enough power level, to be able to actually rando cleave down something like a Scrapper or a Boonbeast running around in there. In other words, these side node labyrinths are providing an environment that will allow certain Side Noders & Bunkers a no-death type escape & reset method. So it encourages a play style where you quite seriously will have to have 1 person sit and camp home the entire game because some Scrapper is going to be on it 100% of the time, and even if you + him and almost kill him, he's going to run into the labyrinth and reset until full health and just go right back to your home node. This type of dynamic discourages smart rotational play, and encourages node camping whether you are defending or trying to take it. This is not healthy for the conquest game mode and I guarantee you it will get boring very quickly. Ultimately my point is that: When contesting a node, there needs to be the risk of death involved. This is what makes THE WHOLE DYNAMIC WORK.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:Well, it went from the best ranger map to the worst which is probably why you dislike most of the chances.I on the other hand love them, the kiting potential is out of this world and it allows for some skillful play.

I'd much rather have this than getting sniped by a longbow ranger on a no port from 2k range.

Again, 90% of my feedback is coming from the standpoint of chasing things around as a Berserker or Reaper. I've actually only ran Berserker Soulbeast DPS in it once so far, and that was just because I didn't want someone on the other team to win ^^ When I ran Soulbeast DPS, I quickly came to the conclusion that the LB was actually useless in the map against good players. The pillars around mid in conjunction with the ramps and pillars up the ramps, and even the drop downs and jumpable pillars under mid off to the sides, is too much elevation change and LOS power. It was literally impossible to fulfill a complete burst with a LB at mid against competent players. Anywhere a person stands while at mid now, there is an LOS to get to while using a single dodge roll yes. Then I noticed on the side nodes that to even hit with a LB, I had to either close in on someone at virtually melee range and at best mid range maybe 600 or predictably stand on the original ramped platforms. That is when it occurred to me that the map's design was now to be a melee map. It would have been far more advantageous to swap off the LB and use Sword or Axe with Axe, with the Greatsword. If you are always going to be close to mid range before being able to hit something, there is absolutely no reason to use ranged attack options that are completely negated by LOS, when melee cleave goes through LOS, when I am being forced to engage at almost point blank range before getting around LOS. So what we have happening in environments with this type of terrain, is the negation of ranged options entirely. Sure you'll explode low tiered players with your LB Ranger or DE still, but against good players in say an AT round, ranged attacks will be null & void in Eternal Coliseum as it is. I know people find pew pew to be annoying, but you guys need to better distinguish between what is annoying and what is actually overpowered. As well as what is a l2p issue. The sheer absence of representation of pew pew builds in all tournaments ever, speaks very loudly.

Oh and additionally, EC was never the best Ranger map. Khylo is easily the best map for LB Rangers or any pew pew for many reasons, but I've never once heard anyone bring it up or complain about it in the forum.

Imo it's the right direction but maybe should be toned down a bit. I'm happy they're making some kind of change at all. EC previously felt empty to me. Specifically, I think mid is great, sides are too cluttered.

It's supposed to be a lot less about visual beauty & graphics and a lot more about the functionality of the competitive mode's intra-class combat dynamic. No offense intended and with all due respect, there are too many people responding to these updates with comments such as: "It looks good I like it" without even giving a shred of focus to how the map's dynamic has actually changed.

maybe cut a bit down on the clutter and midpoint pillars but overall good changes imo. my new 900 range blunderbuss loves this map

Now I can say that with the coliseum changes have ruined the map in a way that I thought was not possible, shit all over the fucking map, that you can not move without stumbling over some column, wood or whatever you want, you get stuck and the camera becomes chaotic.

Why do you never ask the community before when making a change? I really can not understand it.

I think that saying "this map is the worst for ranged now" is a bit of a stretch.Sure, melee specs now have a lot more cover and LoS options, but ranged classes can abuse the added verticality and jumping puzzles just as well WHILE being able to actually counterpressure those who chase them.

Its a double edged sword really.

@"Zenix.6198" said:I think that saying "this map is the worst for ranged now" is a bit of a stretch.Sure, melee specs now have a lot more cover and LoS options, but ranged classes can abuse the added verticality and jumping puzzles just as well WHILE being able to actually counterpressure those who chase them.

Its a double edged sword really.

No. It's definitely the worst map for ranged now. There is no balance or double-edged sword effect. It just offers way way too much LOS, way too much. Meanwhile, things like Holosmiths cleave the shit out of everyone while hiding behind the LOS through the LOS with enormous horizontal and vertical melee reach.

We aren't just talking Longbows here. We are talking anything & everything that is a ranged attack. Too much LOS in any environment greatly favors melee "which can hit through objects in this game" and things that can teleport through objects and cast teleport return to location skills.

They killed the immersion of the map. There is too much grass and pillars for an arena themed battleground.

Pillars at mid need to go.Place feels cluttered.

The Clutter is in the way of my telegraph skill's & attack's. I could close my eyes & just spam button'S but now i actually have to play & run after my targets. Hate it!