Swipe is more than 50% nerf — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Swipe is more than 50% nerf

Swipe is more than 50% nerf, since most of the time you would use steal is beyond 600 range.
Compared to steal you can't use it in way more than 50% of cases.

What's the point of a gap closer that can only be used at close range?

Comments

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How does it work with sword? I've kinda given it a pass until they fix the bugs with it, I mean, not having steal related traits working with the new steal is comical at this point.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Xenji.4907Xenji.4907 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
    How does it work with sword? I've kinda given it a pass until they fix the bugs with it, I mean, not having steal related traits working with the new steal is comical at this point.

    Same. I been using a s/d DD and I have to use Infiltrator's Strike before to even think about stealing. But if "shadow return" is up then I can't x_x. There goes gap closing and I died by range or they are gone.

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All it needs is becoming a stun breaker, maybe a different set of skills that are more melee AoE oriented, like replacing the single target mace stolen from guardians with a 3-5 target hammer.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have a DD P/P build that no longer work since pistol has 900 range and Swipe has 600. Whoever thought that this new Steal is a good idea?

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • I was originally thinking it does have damage, heal and bleed so to speak which is good even if it was not that much of a buff for dps and the heal

    now heal would be just 1k maybe in emergency th 1k heal could save you if all other heals are down

    So I did a test on it (that is auto attack with staff) around 4,124 and then auto attack with the swipe it was around 4,357 and that was only when I got a dps steal for extra dmg which not that much and using 1 or 2 times did not make a change when fighting the golem.

    So yea I would say the swipe even tho has some dps and heal is so negligible that like you said is a nerf

    Also considering how I used steal as a gap closer or catching up with the bosses when they did a jump (most the time in fractals I was there fighting the boss b4 anyone else.

    Now other then just repeating what ever one is saying: Got a question an (idea I have) that might make the range nerf OK.
    So kind of interested in seeing what all you think about this.
    1. A long speed boost (which would make seance with the Daredevil)
    2. Another idea some kind of cc (I can see the logic in this when in melee range using the steal to do extra cc some kind of stun knock down etc)
    3. passably with them or if keeping it as the dps/heal it has a lot lower cool down tho not sure that would still give you any advantage seeing in that test stats i did the dps was only increased by 100 250.

  • @Phoenixtwolf.9213 said:
    I was originally thinking it does have damage, heal and bleed so to speak which is good even if it was not that much of a buff for dps and the heal

    now heal would be just 1k maybe in emergency th 1k heal could save you if all other heals are down

    So I did a test on it (that is auto attack with staff) around 4,124 and then auto attack with the swipe it was around 4,357 and that was only when I got a dps steal for extra dmg which not that much and using 1 or 2 times did not make a change when fighting the golem.

    So yea I would say the swipe even tho has some dps and heal is so negligible that like you said is a nerf

    Also considering how I used steal as a gap closer or catching up with the bosses when they did a jump (most the time in fractals I was there fighting the boss b4 anyone else.

    Now other then just repeating what ever one is saying: Got a question an (idea I have) that might make the range nerf OK.
    So kind of interested in seeing what all you think about this.
    1. A long speed boost (which would make seance with the Daredevil)
    2. Another idea some kind of cc (I can see the logic in this when in melee range using the steal to do extra cc some kind of stun knock down etc)
    3. passably with them or if keeping it as the dps/heal it has a lot lower cool down tho not sure that would still give you any advantage seeing in that test stats i did the dps was only increased by 100 250.

    I like the idea of DD having access to super speed.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    Add on the bugs and Warclaw issues with Dare Devil and it is a massive nerf. Closing the gap on Pew-Pew got monstrously more difficult with this "feature". I thought many of their thief changes have been misguided making the class less and less fun to play but this one feels like they just want the class or at least the specialization to go away.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    Most of those people would be idiots that don't understand the class and how it plays. They certainly don't know what a nerf the bugs in Trickery synergies have caused.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2019

    @Straegen.2938 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    Most of those people would be idiots that don't understand the class and how it plays.

    Want a good read? Go to mesmer section and check out the arenets favorite child post if u want a laugh

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    What is dead cannot die, and DD is dead. At least we still have core, so its not so bad.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • @Straegen.2938 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    Most of those people would be idiots that don't understand the class and how it plays. They certainly don't know what a nerf the bugs in Trickery synergies have caused.

    the bugs have been fixed*

    "how it plays" is now different. trying to play it like it played pre patch isnt going to work. You need to change your playstyle to keep up.

    also, if you manage to change your playstyle youll find that the unblockable interupt and damage/heal from mug and PI, more than makes up for its lack of range. im thinking of herald shield, guardians block heal, warriors shield block, daredevils block skill, rangers sword block, engi's shield block etc etc. theyre all channeled block skills that are usually pretty important in the ability of the class to stay alive. plus you will land steal pretty much always so long as its not evaded or used during and invuln frame.....and we all know how important it is to land steal........

    at the end of the day i consider this a buff all trait changes considered and bugs now fixed. although it is freaking annoying to not be able to catch someone because they are out of range at 700 range face palm

    but im sure wel all get used to it and adjust accordingly.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    it absolutely was. but if your only looking at the disadvantage of the range nerf like alot of poeple are doing its hard to see the potential of what an unblockable steal means XD

  • @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I have a DD P/P build that no longer work since pistol has 900 range and Swipe has 600. Whoever thought that this new Steal is a good idea?

    thank god they dont balance around making that terrible build work. the game is much better for it.

  • @Eluwave.9506 said:
    Swipe is more than 50% nerf, since most of the time you would use steal is beyond 600 range.
    Compared to steal you can't use it in way more than 50% of cases.

    What's the point of a gap closer that can only be used at close range?

    depends on what game mode your playing but i would say the most useful part of steal isnt the gap closer. thief has plenty of those already on multiple weapon sets. its the boon rip, interuppt, damage from mug, damage from PI, vigor, healing, poison, inniative gain, endurance gain, stolen skill (in some cases), and fury/might/swift that change the course of a fight. ..........and now its unblockable XD

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @The Mechanic.3567 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    it absolutely was. but if your only looking at the disadvantage of the range nerf like alot of poeple are doing its hard to see the potential of what an unblockable steal means XD

    Can you enlighten us to what the advantage of an unblockable steal is? A thief already has an unblockable steal through boon removal of ageis. There is no point hitting through a normal block because you are wasting your steal... Steal should be used to interrupt things like mercy signet. Stealing through some on blocking like sheild Stance is basically pointless since your damage is low and you are not interrupting anything useful lol.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @The Mechanic.3567 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    it absolutely was. but if your only looking at the disadvantage of the range nerf like alot of poeple are doing its hard to see the potential of what an unblockable steal means XD

    Can you enlighten us to what the advantage of an unblockable steal is? A thief already has an unblockable steal through boon removal of ageis. There is no point hitting through a normal block because you are wasting your steal... Steal should be used to interrupt things like mercy signet. Stealing through some on blocking like sheild Stance is basically pointless since your damage is low and you are not interrupting anything useful lol.

    while i did play only maybe 2 hours roaming (with my staff zerg build cause too lazy to switch) in WvW with a daredevil since the patch, in that time i won 2 fights just because of that steal being unblockable. one was basically right after i killed the second in a 1 vs 2 against ranger + scourge i got jumped by a rev that was probably much better than me, also had nice mAT winner title :D and basically just killed him by interrupting his staff block, it did look like he didnt expect that. the other was a druid that after my burst went on gs to go defensive with block + super speed -> GS leap -> CA to full heal and as he tried it again i interrupted that combo during the block preventing him from resetting the fight.
    i bet if i play my daredevil more i will more often get into situations where the swipe being unblockable will make the fight. but i am not sure yet if unblockable or range is better in WvW for it, in spvp the range is most probably better for the wall ports especially on d/p or staff as they would need to give up a utility slot to do that now, but on the rare occasion i play that mode i use core anyway.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ^not to mention you are always not alone and that someone may be with you (not as in a grp) even if your dmg is low, may your friends is not and interrupting some channaled blocks really does put the enemy in a sticky situation.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The Mechanic.3567 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    I have a DD P/P build that no longer work since pistol has 900 range and Swipe has 600. Whoever thought that this new Steal is a good idea?

    thank god they dont balance around making that terrible build work. the game is much better for it.

    Yes, P/P builds are understandably overwhelming for some people with a narrow perception of the Thief profession.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Players of other classes seem to be under the impression that these changes were a buff to DD

    No, not really. I do not play much thief in PvE (and almost none at all in PvP), and the changes are surely a nerf in PvP. I rarely see DD in sPvP now.

    I understand the direction that Anet wants to go with DD. I would love to have a thief build that is not built on hit, run and CC. But in typical Anet fashion, changes were not measured. And as a result DD fails now at everything...

  • Geiir.7603Geiir.7603 Member ✭✭

    I think they missed their mark with the Daredevil. I understand the reasoning for 600 range as they want the Daredevil to be a melee brawler that rely on evasion frames to survive. They need to do something to make the Daredevil a true brawling spec...

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭✭

    Interrupting channeled blocks has performed better than I had expected. Players use channeled blocks when they are taking hits to reset pressure; popping a fast unblockable steal to interrupt that doubles down on your advantage. This is amplified even more when you are in 2v1 situations. Interrupting a channeled life-saving block has frequently scored a kill right then and there.

  • Gatvin.6510Gatvin.6510 Member ✭✭

    Honestly think they did a fine job here. Unblockable daze is no joke. I really like this change. I don't want unblockable abilities everywhere, but having one good one really makes play a lot more interesting.

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