WvW : A numbers game.

It's no secret that in order to win WvW you need to be in a high pop server across all timezones.It's no big deal since winning is meanless anyway.But this isn't a PPT post.On more of a fight perspective, the downed stare, rally mechanic and Warclaw benefits more the larger groups/blob.This is true in all fight scales, be it 2v1, 3v1, 30v15 and so on.The outnumbered player/squad have to work even harder to succeed.In other words, being in a larger group is easier and safer which leads us to the current one blob bandwagon meta.While this can be profitable in the short term, it's bad for the game mode in the long run.On one side it's fun to steamroll less populated servers.But on the other side is just frustration.This leads to further population disparity, making people not log for the week, join the bandwagon or simply quit because they dont have the time to farm gold or dont want to spent money to buy gems to transfer.

Suggestions :

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes-Instead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

Bandwagon :

Make it harder to bandwagon.

• Increase transfer costs progressively,
• Increase penalties for transfering
• Relinks every month
• Merge t4 servers

Warclaw :

Should work only as a MOBILITY TOOL

• Remove HP, people are using it as a shield, punishing the agressor by being forced to burn cooldowns, cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight.
• Make It CC'able
• Remove evade frames, keep jumps.
• Put a cast time/Increase cooldown or BOTH.Having no cast time/cd on mount also benefits larger groups who chase smaller groups.This makes Warclaw a ganking machine.

I understand that people like the big blob fights, i like it too, but skill lag makes it.... not enjoyable to say the least.

TL;DR - Along with population balance, skill lag seems to be the main reasons people complain about WvW and needs to be adressed as soon as possible.

@"spectrito.8513" said:It's no secret that in order to win WvW you need to be in a high pop server across all timezones.It's no big deal since winning is meanless anyway.But this isn't a PPT post.On more of a fight perspective, the downed stare, rally mechanic and Warclaw benefits more the larger groups/blob.This is true in all fight scales, be it 2v1, 3v1, 30v15 and so on.The outnumbered player/squad have to work even harder to succeed.In other words, being in a larger group is easier and safer which leads us to the current one blob bandwagon meta.While this can be profitable in the short term, it's bad for the game mode in the long run.On one side it's fun to steamroll less populated servers.But on the other side is just frustration.This leads to further population disparity, making people not log for the week, join the bandwagon or simply quit because they dont have the time to farm gold or dont want to spent money to buy gems to transfer.

Suggestions :

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes-Instead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

Bandwagon :

Make it harder to bandwagon.

• Increase transfer costs progressively,
• Increase penalties for transfering
• Relinks every month
• Merge t4 servers

Warclaw :

Should work only as a MOBILITY TOOL

• Remove HP, people are using it as a shield, punishing the agressor by being forced to burn cooldowns, cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight.
• Make It CC'able
• Remove evade frames, keep jumps.
• Put a cast time/Increase cooldown or BOTH.Having no cast time/cd on mount also benefits larger groups who chase smaller groups.This makes Warclaw a ganking machine.

I understand that people like the big blob fights, i like it too, but skill lag makes it.... not enjoyable to say the least.

TL;DR - Along with population balance, skill lag seems to be the main reasons people complain about WvW and needs to be adressed as soon as possible.

They could just remove downed state in WvW itself, which they can clearly do judging by the events. Honestly as much work as reworking revives and traits might be it would probably be worthwhile, if they did that it would pretty drastically change the game and ultimately I think it would be for the better and could bring people back into PvP and WvW. The game is nearly 7 years old, it could use that kind of shake up.

Bandwagoning is for sure a problem, hopefully this is something that can be solved more with the Alliance System but we won't know until we get more information on that. This part is kind of a "wait and see for now" scenario.

As for the Warclaw I feel like what will alleviate a lot of the problems will be them adding the dismount skill, which is hopefully soon. Touching anything else on it will nullify its purpose entirely and also probably make things worse for people trying to get away from zergs.

Except for Warclaw, all of this has existed for many years in wvw. Anet doesn't want to seem to invest much in the way of resources to wvw, so is highly doubtful that any of these issues will be addressed. Especially since they got rid of a large chunk of their devs.

Imo, it is what it is, and won't be changing any time soon.

Seems like A-Net have invested in creating somewhat fair teams (at least with numbers) with the merging, so people can experience a lot of players at least on the first day. The overall topic of people not logging in for a week, seems like it could be very difficult to actually handle, since you cant go after a hard number anymore, but rather the peoples likely hood of actually logging in based on who they fight (Heard something about alliance, though I am not fully sure how it would work out).

On the first 2 topics: Dont think it would change a lot. The bandwagon generally happens after a few months, not each 2-3 weeks. Even if it did. It would mainly just make it a hard cap for actual bandwagon. Where 1 server experience a lot of new players, and another got a lot hardcore GvG groups for a longer while. Which might be boring for both, if a certain guild wants to fight the other strong once. Just dont think it is an actual fix if I have to be honest (Basically down the road of your ideology, think of how the servers are now, and suddenly they are all fully locked)

I generally do like the idea that you can escape with the Warclaw, at the very least if in your own zone, I do however not understand the overall CC-pass, seeing a warclaw with 5 different CC´s on it, but nothing happens seems weird. But based on dodges, I also think it benefits smaller groups (at the very least in your own zone), rather than having 50 people instantly chase down and wipe 20-30 people every time they see them walking around, roamers like Thiefs/Rangers would also have it easiere by instantly killing newer players, which might benefit gankers, but not the overall topic (PPT or WvW fights).

I guess I somewhat agree with your problem of WvW (numbers to a certain point), but I dont think any of the above will help anyone but strong servers/massive blobs or if we are only focusing on Warclaw, maybe gankers for easier to shut down of people riding?

You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

The only thing I can agree with are warclaw changes. It has too much flavor for a traveling tool. If gliding doesn't have combat value, mount shouldn't either and we certainly don't need those to affect class balance.

@steki.1478 said:

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

I have been playing wvw for years, and frankly, I suck most of the time at it. I am an older casual player, and my reaction time is not near what it used to be. But, I enjoy the mode, and one of my favorite things is going over the combat logs afterwards and figuring out what I did wrong and where, and trying to improve on that. WvW is just a ton of fun, imo, when I am in the mood to play it.

dont buy (as i) any more gems .. get them on the money side ..

@Teon.5168 said:

@steki.1478 said:

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong about that. The fact that people want everything easy way or act like they are superior when they have no idea what they are doing is the biggest problem of pretty much every part of gw2 and probably other games as well.

@steki.1478 said:

@Teon.5168 said:

@steki.1478 said:

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

Unfortunately, mmos have been like that for years. Some people just want things handed to them, rather than working at it and trying to improve. Half the fun, to me, is figuring out how to become a better player in certain modes. But then again, I was in Dark Age of Camelot for nearly 10 years, and I have always enjoyed wvw/rvr since that game. And to be effective out there, you have to admit your faults and try to figure out better ways to do things. :)

On a side note:It was funny in DaoC, as we used to have all these "elitists" on the forums who used to brag about their wvw/rvr prowess. Well, there was a huge cheating problem in DaoC, and once they figured out how to catch the cheat(it was an illegal 3rd party radar rvr cheat), there were some massive bans. It was funny how many of those "elitists" suddenly disappeared from the game......lol.

This looks like a sneaky post to get downstate remove. There is no need to remove anything.

They have done this downstate thing before. It is always temporary, and only last a few weeks, at most.

@aiinseinn.5914 said:dont buy (as i) any more gems .. get them on the money side ..

This...

Don't fund inaction.

@"steki.1478" said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

The only thing I can agree with are warclaw changes. It has too much flavor for a traveling tool. If gliding doesn't have combat value, mount shouldn't either and we certainly don't need those to affect class balance.

Rewards used to be non-existent and population imbalance much worse, yet players kept playing WvW - because they had fun. Winning was completely irrelevant for most. Simply having fun fighting and enjoying the game was reward enough. Then class balance and design went downhill with the expansions and the game became less fun and instead of fixing this issue and trying to make the combat - which was the main aspect most enjoyed about WvW - fun again, anet started adding bandaids and carrots to lure players in. But this does not keep players who played the gamemode for the enjoyable combat. Those still left for the most part. So now we indeed have mostly players who are just there for the easy "wins" and rewards, because that's exactly what WvW offers now. But anet does have an influence on what players play their game. It is the type of player they keep catering to.(Btw even in the lowest tier (EU) a server can have all maps queued at prime time - there is no avoiding zergs)

@"spectrito.8513" said:It's no secret that in order to win WvW you need to be in a high pop server across all timezones.It's no big deal since winning is meanless anyway.But this isn't a PPT post.On more of a fight perspective, the downed stare, rally mechanic and Warclaw benefits more the larger groups/blob.This is true in all fight scales, be it 2v1, 3v1, 30v15 and so on.The outnumbered player/squad have to work even harder to succeed.In other words, being in a larger group is easier and safer which leads us to the current one blob bandwagon meta.While this can be profitable in the short term, it's bad for the game mode in the long run.On one side it's fun to steamroll less populated servers.But on the other side is just frustration.This leads to further population disparity, making people not log for the week, join the bandwagon or simply quit because they dont have the time to farm gold or dont want to spent money to buy gems to transfer.

Suggestions :

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes-Instead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

Bandwagon :

Make it harder to bandwagon.

• Increase transfer costs progressively,
• Increase penalties for transfering
• Relinks every month
• Merge t4 servers

Warclaw :

Should work only as a MOBILITY TOOL

• Remove HP, people are using it as a shield, punishing the agressor by being forced to burn cooldowns, cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight.
• Make It CC'able
• Remove evade frames, keep jumps.
• Put a cast time/Increase cooldown or BOTH.Having no cast time/cd on mount also benefits larger groups who chase smaller groups.This makes Warclaw a ganking machine.

I understand that people like the big blob fights, i like it too, but skill lag makes it.... not enjoyable to say the least.

TL;DR - Along with population balance, skill lag seems to be the main reasons people complain about WvW and needs to be adressed as soon as possible.

"cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight."

Happens a lot. If you can make your opponent blow some CD's even before an encounter starts, thats called fighting smart, not hard.

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:It's no secret that in order to win WvW you need to be in a high pop server across all timezones.It's no big deal since winning is meanless anyway.But this isn't a PPT post.On more of a fight perspective, the downed stare, rally mechanic and Warclaw benefits more the larger groups/blob.This is true in all fight scales, be it 2v1, 3v1, 30v15 and so on.The outnumbered player/squad have to work even harder to succeed.In other words, being in a larger group is easier and safer which leads us to the current one blob bandwagon meta.While this can be profitable in the short term, it's bad for the game mode in the long run.On one side it's fun to steamroll less populated servers.But on the other side is just frustration.This leads to further population disparity, making people not log for the week, join the bandwagon or simply quit because they dont have the time to farm gold or dont want to spent money to buy gems to transfer.

Suggestions :

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes-Instead

remove rally

, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

Bandwagon :

Make it harder to bandwagon.

• Increase transfer costs progressively,
• Increase penalties for transfering
• Relinks every month
• Merge t4 servers

Warclaw :

Should work only as a

MOBILITY TOOL

• Remove HP, people are using it as a shield, punishing the agressor by being forced to burn cooldowns, cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight.
• Make It CC'able
• Remove evade frames, keep jumps.
• Put a cast time/Increase cooldown or BOTH.Having no cast time/cd on mount also benefits larger groups who chase smaller groups.This makes Warclaw a ganking machine.

I understand that people like the big blob fights, i like it too, but skill lag makes it.... not enjoyable to say the least.

TL;DR - Along with population balance, skill lag seems to be the main reasons people complain about WvW and needs to be adressed as soon as possible.

As if sitting on a mount requires much brain. "Not fighting at all" would be a much more fitting term because that's what happens when everyone sits on a mount and "fights smart" as you label it.

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:It's no secret that in order to win WvW you need to be in a high pop server across all timezones.It's no big deal since winning is meanless anyway.But this isn't a PPT post.On more of a fight perspective, the downed stare, rally mechanic and Warclaw benefits more the larger groups/blob.This is true in all fight scales, be it 2v1, 3v1, 30v15 and so on.The outnumbered player/squad have to work even harder to succeed.In other words, being in a larger group is easier and safer which leads us to the current one blob bandwagon meta.While this can be profitable in the short term, it's bad for the game mode in the long run.On one side it's fun to steamroll less populated servers.But on the other side is just frustration.This leads to further population disparity, making people not log for the week, join the bandwagon or simply quit because they dont have the time to farm gold or dont want to spent money to buy gems to transfer.

Suggestions :

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modes-Instead

remove rally

, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.

Bandwagon :

Make it harder to bandwagon.

• Increase transfer costs progressively,
• Increase penalties for transfering
• Relinks every month
• Merge t4 servers

Warclaw :

Should work only as a

MOBILITY TOOL

• Remove HP, people are using it as a shield, punishing the agressor by being forced to burn cooldowns, cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight.
• Make It CC'able
• Remove evade frames, keep jumps.
• Put a cast time/Increase cooldown or BOTH.Having no cast time/cd on mount also benefits larger groups who chase smaller groups.This makes Warclaw a ganking machine.

I understand that people like the big blob fights, i like it too, but skill lag makes it.... not enjoyable to say the least.

TL;DR - Along with population balance, skill lag seems to be the main reasons people complain about WvW and needs to be adressed as soon as possible.

Smart is knowing your opponent is dumb enough to blow CD's while you are on the mount. If your opponent blows the CD's then you dismount and fight...then yes...you are fighting smart and the attacker is not. If the attacker doesnt do anything, then they are being the smart one.

So yes....it is fighting smart if there is an intention to actually fight. Fight smart....not hard.

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:"cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight."

Happens a lot. If you can make your opponent blow some CD's even before an encounter starts, thats called fighting smart, not hard.

Quick "What happens if everyone fights smart?"-sanity check:Nothing. People don't fight each other anymore because for anyone starting the fight would be the stupid thing to do. Unless of course you use your Warclaw to stall until you have the reinforcements that allow you to have the upper hand anyway, but now the fight's most likely be a XvsY roflstomp. Sounds fun. I can't wait to get better and smarter at playing the game.

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@"steki.1478" said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

The only thing I can agree with are warclaw changes. It has too much flavor for a traveling tool. If gliding doesn't have combat value, mount shouldn't either and we certainly don't need those to affect class balance.

Very much this. At its heart WvW is a game mode that somewhat requires the stronger force to split up - you have more people, you have more objectives, enemies have more places they can attack, you need scouts and smaller groups to react fast enough. This is what provides the outnumbered server(s) opportunities for balanced fights between their smaller base of active players and different parts of the bigger enemy force. The match up standings might be pretty much set in stone but you can still run around and have decent fights. Or the enemies rely on a monoblob that allows you to cap stuff with smaller groups while they are busy. Unless the number differences are really high, WvW fights balance themselves this way. BTW this is also why I think the scoring system, PPT and tactics have to be relevant to the players in some way, if there's no incentive to play the gamemode well, there's no incentive to not just play in a way that gives you the most kills and caps with the least amount of effort involved (Ktrain anyone?).

However, many new and older additions to WvW made it so that you can react more easily with just a big force that doesn't have to split up that much: enemies getting marked by sentries, auras, gliding, faster travel speed (mount), objective upgrades (EWP/invuln structures to stall caps) etc. Then there have been "discoveries" like building golems in camps to stall roamers taking them (though they at least still need a scout present). There are also core mechanics that strengthen the bigger server (TP's, structure upgrades) and the scoring system often encourages the 2nd and 3rd place to fight each other instead of the 1st place. Note that these mechanics never solely benefit the bigger servers, but they usually provide more benefits to them. Stalling for example only pays of if you can follow up with something. Travel speed increases lose their value when you can't get into enemy territory unnoticed and you can't achieve anything there before leaving a trail on the map. Which means a bigger force of enemies showing up with their even faster travel speed.I can see where these changes were coming from, some have their place too, they raise the stakes for example, secretly rushing a keep to get rid of a teleport while another squad jukes an attack on another objective used to be really thrilling. And being part of the bigger server that is not engaged with the enemy is not fun. Scouting isn't fun (for most people). Running around and having to catch up isn't fun. Being intercepted isn't fun. However, steamrolling enemies with a superior force strangely seems to be fun for most people.But being in the smaller faction and not having the tools to fight the bigger one isn't fun either. And having the alternatives / havoc gamestyles that provided valid options to deal with larger servers (and kept things interesting) nerfed dismantles the self-balancing setup of WvW. Once the smaller servers completely resign because they see no way to fight back there's nothing to fight for the big ones either.

And yes, if you make changes that benefit those with the most numbers most people will like it. But then don't be surprised when you suddenly lose more and more people on the smaller servers. This is the direction WvW is going right now. It's not lost yet, but if ANet doesn't get that primarily catering to the "zerg vs zerg standoff" playstyle isn't going to do the gamemode any good in the long run it will continue to dwindle.

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:"cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight."

Happens a lot. If you can make your opponent blow some CD's even before an encounter starts, thats called fighting smart, not hard.

I have a feeling, based on your response here that you were caught not playing smart. You seem to be taking this to a new level which indicates experience, or that you fail to grasp the concept which I cant help you there.

Smart fighters will typically prevail. This can be using the mount to bait out attacks (which is what we are talking about, that you fail to see for some reason), using terrain to your advantage...etc. By using the warclaw, they are trying to bait out higher CD attacks....if it works...then great...if not then oh well. Either way, they are playing (in this case, they are opening the fight) smart

If you still cant comprehend, then I cant help ya and you are on your own as I cant simplify it any more.

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:"cant remember a PvP game that punishes who starts a fight."

Happens a lot. If you can make your opponent blow some CD's even before an encounter starts, thats called fighting smart, not hard.

you can still use AA.sure this wont make you dismount someone that doesnt want to fight but it will dismount people that dont really intent to run, that just want you to blow CDs.

forcing the fight by using CDs you need for the fight to dismount has a cost that might make you lose the fight. initiating a fight doesnt as AAs dont have a cost. once we get our dismount skill you might even be able to force the fight without a cost! (till we will be able to mount in combat)

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

I have a feeling, based on your response here that you were caught not playing smart. You seem to be taking this to a new level which indicates experience, or that you fail to grasp the concept which I cant help you there.

Smart fighters will typically prevail. This can be using the mount to bait out attacks (which is what we are talking about, that you fail to see for some reason), using terrain to your advantage...etc. By using the warclaw, they are trying to bait out higher CD attacks....if it works...then great...if not then oh well. Either way, they are playing (in this case, they are opening the fight) smart

If you still cant comprehend, then I cant help ya and you are on your own as I cant simplify it any more.

I see the point in baiting out attacks with Warclaw, that's also what I advise people to do because it is good. If you want to fight and make the enemy create a disadvantage for himself you're off to a good start.The problem I see with is with 2 smart players meeting. In the past, this would be an interesting and even fight (by WvW standards), though you could try to do a smart engage, which might or might not work depending on your enemy's awareness.Now, as soon as you're off the mount while the enemy is still on he has more options than you. Unless you manage to pull of 12k instant damage without any indication at all (which gets you a CC for probably a good amount of your CDs) being on the mount only has benefits:

• he can simply ride away
• if you auto attack him, you slow yourself immensely compared to him. The enemy can now dismount and start the "real" fight from a position best suited in this match up, you don't spend resources but forfeit your odds at your preferred positioning in regards to your enemy
• you do serious damage but don't knock him off, he's free to resort to one of the 2 earlier options as long as he has dodges left
• ? (open for ideas)

@MUDse.7623 said:you can still use AA.sure this wont make you dismount someone that doesnt want to fight but it will dismount people that dont really intent to run, that just want you to blow CDs.

See above.

@MUDse.7623 said:forcing the fight by using CDs you need for the fight to dismount has a cost that might make you lose the fight. initiating a fight doesnt as AAs dont have a cost. once we get our dismount skill you might even be able to force the fight without a cost! (till we will be able to mount in combat)

If you meet a mounted player while mounted, you mount down to auto attack and get yourself in combat, that means the enemy retains all the benefits mentioned earlier and you don't gain any advantage over him. In the bigger context of the map however you put yourself at additional risk from people who might be coming by since you can not remount and move at combat speed. The enemy doesn't suffer that much additional risk since he's still at full mount speed and likely has no problems breaking combat with you to regain the couple of thousand health you might have cost him. If you don't spend any resources he can also stall you a longer while (depending on your auto damage & terrain) which increases the risk of him getting reinforcements and you not being able to run from them.

Sure, you can work to make the mount less of an advantage but I don't see the scenario where being the one who stays on the mount longer than the other is the worse thing to do. Thus the best option still is to remain on your mount at least until the enemy dismounts. Which means if both parties play 100% smart there won't be a fight.I really hope the coming dismount options are going to change that.

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

I have a feeling, based on your response here that you were caught not playing smart. You seem to be taking this to a new level which indicates experience, or that you fail to grasp the concept which I cant help you there.

Smart fighters will typically prevail. This can be using the mount to bait out attacks (which is what we are talking about, that you fail to see for some reason), using terrain to your advantage...etc. By using the warclaw, they are trying to bait out higher CD attacks....if it works...then great...if not then oh well. Either way, they are playing (in this case, they are opening the fight) smart

If you still cant comprehend, then I cant help ya and you are on your own as I cant simplify it any more.

• he can simply ride away
• if you auto attack him, you slow yourself immensely compared to him. The enemy can now dismount and start the "real" fight from a position best suited in this match up, you don't spend resources but forfeit your odds at your preferred positioning in regards to your enemy
• you do serious damage but don't knock him off, he's free to resort to one of the 2 earlier options as long as he has dodges left
• ? (open for ideas)

@MUDse.7623 said:you can still use AA.sure this wont make you dismount someone that doesnt want to fight but it will dismount people that dont really intent to run, that just want you to blow CDs.

@MUDse.7623 said:forcing the fight by using CDs you need for the fight to dismount has a cost that might make you lose the fight. initiating a fight doesnt as AAs dont have a cost. once we get our dismount skill you might even be able to force the fight without a cost! (till we will be able to mount in combat)

you still forget the factor of people willing to actually fight.here is what i do if i see a lone player that i dont want to waste too much CDs to fight: i will dismount and if they want to fight me they usually will use their engage skill while i wont move till they start it, then jump on my mount to tank it and engage them with mine.obviously without dismount skill we wont get a smart way to force a fight against an unwilling target, mind you unwilling doesnt mean they are not able to beat you. but you dont have to remain on the mount to be smart - aslong as you are not in combat you can mount up anytime.

and yes hopefully we do get a dismount skill soon, aswell as in combat mounting(with CD on engage skill) to not get run down by a horde of warclaws unless you are a stealther.

@MUDse.7623 said:

you still forget the factor of people willing to actually fight.here is what i do if i see a lone player that i dont want to waste too much CDs to fight: i will dismount and if they want to fight me they usually will use their engage skill while i wont move till they start it, then jump on my mount to tank it and engage them with mine.obviously without dismount skill we wont get a smart way to force a fight against an unwilling target, mind you unwilling doesnt mean they are not able to beat you. but you dont have to remain on the mount to be smart - aslong as you are not in combat you can mount up anytime.

and yes hopefully we do get a dismount skill soon, aswell as in combat mounting(with CD on engage skill) to not get run down by a horde of warclaws unless you are a stealther.

If you dismount and hope your enemy does so as well you're just taking a bet in which you invest something but the other player doesn't. Also you have a 5sec CD on the remount so that bait might not work out. And starting a fight with Warclaw Maul is mostly a bad idea. Has to be melee, locks you in an animation and is very predictable and punishable.

Yes, people (that includes me) are still mounting off or walking around to get fights, but to be the one that gets the fight or just the chance of a fight started you always have to be the one biting the bullet. If you want to play optimally, you don't dismount first. If two roamers meet that are unwilling to concede the advantage they won't fight. That's the issue with the current state of WvW. Getting into fights and starting them shouldn't be a mistake.

@Silinsar.6298 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

you still forget the factor of people willing to actually fight.here is what i do if i see a lone player that i dont want to waste too much CDs to fight: i will dismount and if they want to fight me they usually will use their engage skill while i wont move till they start it, then jump on my mount to tank it and engage them with mine.obviously without dismount skill we wont get a smart way to force a fight against an unwilling target, mind you unwilling doesnt mean they are not able to beat you. but you dont have to remain on the mount to be smart - aslong as you are not in combat you can mount up anytime.

and yes hopefully we do get a dismount skill soon, aswell as in combat mounting(with CD on engage skill) to not get run down by a horde of warclaws unless you are a stealther.

sure its not good, but that wasnt my point. mine was just about you claiming that a smart person wont ever leave his mount. but he can . aslong as your not in combat, you are basically on the mount, even if you are not, because you can mount up anytime.

but i am with you we do need a fair dismount skill to make such situations less ridiculous. fair in that it doesnt grant the attacker a serious advantage on engage like a strong CC and it should still be dodge/baitable so you dont still get runover by warclaws. wich leads to the 2nd issue that right now once infight it is hard to escape a stalled fight to avoid the reinforcements unless you got stealth, thats why i think in the long run we will get mounting up in combat, possibly with another increase in the cooldown to use the mount and a cooldown on engage skill after mounting up.

@steki.1478 said:You can always drop tiers and fight servers with lower population. You can also avoid enemies with bigger groups and fight where you have advantage.

As you said, people quit because they cant win and they can't win because they want easy fights without improving their playstyle. So basically it's not the system's fault, players are their own issue and that's not something that Anet can affect.

You know what people do when they can't win and want easy fights ?

! THEY BANDWAGON

@SweetPotato.7456 said:This looks like a sneaky post to get downstate remove. There is no need to remove anything.

Im not surprised you didnt even cared to read the post.

@spectrito.8513 said:

Downed state :

Imo, should be removed, but this would require too many reworks on skills and traits and change how the game works on the other game modesInstead remove rally, it's just too forgiving for larger groups who already have advantage on numbers.