Berserk 15% attack speed doesn't work with Quickness

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@Lumpy.8760 said:Mesmer's Malicious Sorcery (20% increased attack speed) stacks with Quickness, why can't Berserk???

pretty sure mesmers trait also don't work with quicknessdual wielding in the arms traitline also doesn't work with quicknessnothing attack speed wise (including fractal sugar rush instab) works with quickness

Wouldn't that mean those traits are pretty much useless in any type of PvE content they might actually matter?

@Astralporing.1957 said:Wouldn't that mean those traits are pretty much useless in any type of PvE content they might actually matter?

They are useless.Quickness means 150%/+50% Attack Speed, and that's the max attack speed you can have. Doesn't matter what profession/weapon/skill we talk about.OP is mistaken, Malicious Sorcery doesn't stack with Quickness either.

Yes this is the expected outcome. Once you have quickness, there is nothing that can additionally speed up your attack rate. Similar to how out of combat swiftness is as fast as you can possibly move.

it shouldn't either, but berserk +15% should stack with dual wielding +20%.

I think Berserk should be an innate +30% attack speed that stacks with dual wielding and drop the quickness from Burst of Aggression. Makes it so that Berserker is less boon dependent, and makes dual wielding worth taking.

This interaction is similar how movement speed buffs work, aka the highest one takes effect, ignoring the lower ones. The idea here is: provide a base amount without other classes interacting, while not creating synergies which create massive power creep if the highest tier of buffs are present.

I do get why the developers have went down this path. It just makes balance around top performance as well as solo or low man performance a lot easier.

@Cyninja.2954 said:This interaction is similar how movement speed buffs work, aka the highest one takes effect, ignoring the lower ones. The idea here is: provide a base amount without other classes interacting, while not creating synergies which create massive power creep if the highest tier of buffs are present.

I do get why the developers have went down this path. It just makes balance around top performance as well as solo or low man performance a lot easier.

Yet, I don't think it is a smart idea.Put a hard cap (aka quickness one), and you should be able to combine several buff like dual wield with berserk. If not, it just creates unnecessary limits.

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:This interaction is similar how movement speed buffs work, aka the highest one takes effect, ignoring the lower ones. The idea here is: provide a base amount without other classes interacting, while not creating synergies which create massive power creep if the highest tier of buffs are present.

I do get why the developers have went down this path. It just makes balance around top performance as well as solo or low man performance a lot easier.

Depends on what you consider smart. It is smart from a balance perspective since it makes things a lot easier and manageable. It might be less intuitive for new players though.

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:Put a hard cap (aka quickness one), and you should be able to combine several buff like dual wield with berserk. If not, it just creates unnecessary limits.

That's up for the developers to decide. Now let's go through some assumptions and possibilities:

Assumption 1: Dual Wield and Berserk are NOT supposed to stack and the maximum amount of attack speed increase without quickness is supposed to be 20%.Pros:

• having 20% attack speed increase in Arms is available to all builds, even without using Berserker as elite specialization
• using Berserker as elite specialization provides a close alternative to using Arms for attack speed increase

Cons:

• taking Dual Wield in Arms becomes almost redundant if also running Berserk elite specialization
• this design is less intuitive than all bonuses just stacking

Assumption 2:Dual Wield and Berserk are supposed to stack and the maximum amount of attack speed increase without quickness is supposed to be 20%.Pros:

• redundancy of having Dual Wielding and Berserk elite specialization gone and more synergy between both trait lines

Cons:

• re-balance and very likely reduction of attack speed on one or both bonuses
• using one of the trait lines without the other will now perform worse than in the current system because both bonuses now must be balanced against each other in case they are both present
• harder to balance for since now one always has to make sure bonuses do not stack, instead of simply making sure the highest bonus counts

Assumption 3: Dual Wield and Berserk are supposed to stack and the maximum amount of attack speed increase without quickness doesn't matter (This is the obvious one people want because they assume, hey just let both bonuses stack for amazing 35% attack speed increase fun, in case of simple additive stacking, yeah not going to happen).Pros:

• great synergy between both trait lines resulting in attack speed performance close to quickness (going to still assume that 50% quickness will remain the cap)

Cons:

• gaining quickness is now less of a benefit (mitigated via taking a different trait)
• a lot harder to balance for and creates more synergies which, given how damage in this game gets calculated, can cause serious spikes in performance

TL;DR:I get why people want these bonuses to stack (hoping for more total attack speed). I think most people are not considering the fact that if these bonuses were to stack, they'd be a lot lower individually with a stacking result total performance of the current cap performance.

If you want more total attack speed, just ask for the individual attack speed bonuses to get increased in the current system. That's just as unlikely to happen but keeps the balance aspect easier.

Your arguments are solid.Althrough I'm not sure case 3 would be OP.Assuming you take berserker and arms. It leaves you few options for defense.If you play power without berserker power, I'm not sure stacking dual wield will make up for the loss.If you take strength, you will have very strong offense in berserk mode (as it should be). But very glassy without defense.

You have to see this as a whole thing, not individual part. Especially considering how average is arms for power build.