Pretty bad fury uptime as Berserker

After removing fury when entering Berserk mode, and removing core bursts from Berserker, the fury uptime in solo situations is pretty bad. Low fury uptime doesn't make much sense thematically. Yes, there are workarounds (Signet of Rage and For Great Justice), but as the rework was based on theme of going berserk, Anet should keep to it. Before rework, with core Arcing Slice available and getting fury when entering berserk mode, fury management was very good.Or is this just another "trade-off"?

You have to use Arms on Berserker. 100% crit burst is just too good, and 50% crit on stunned foes with unsuspecting foes is too good to not have as well depending on the build. I'd prefer the 10 vuln stacks though because it helps my team.

That's the only way to remedy the lack of fury uptime for now.

Maybe use Runes to make up for it. That and/or just use Assassin's amulet, but then you lose power from Berserker amulet for an STR DISC Berserker or STR DEF Berserker build. Arc Divider has to crit for when it counts or it's kinda hard to play Berserker: Berserker identity atm is (unblockable) AoE damage over spellbreaker/core.

I understand why you need Fury though, it really sucks when you don't crit much for when it counts when you LEGIT have to crit a lot on berserker to be significant.

I meant it more general, in all game modes overall. Missing Arcing Slice (and no fury on Arc Divider/entering Berserk) is the reason of low fury uptime when playing alone. After playing whole week Berserker in open world, dungeons, fractals, WvW, etc, lack of providing fury to self and how inflexible berserker is when using it in short but frequent fights are the 2 biggest issues I have with it when playing solo/without group buffs. Not to mention the grand trade-off of being in the worst possible warrior state when outside of Berserk...

I dont know, lower fury uptime maybe is a good trade-off for the capability to pretty much insta-kill even full bunker builds with the new berserker...

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont know, lower fury uptime maybe is a good trade-off for the capability to pretty much insta-kill even full bunker builds with the new berserker...

That is not fury issue but rather burst damage issue. Sadly, it is the only thing that makes berserker currently usable in PvP/WvW. Core warrior and Spellbreaker have no fury issues as long as they use greatsword. One would expect that thematically, since berserker is also very furious, there should be good fury access just like rest of warrior greatsword builds.

Use opportunist trait in arms and throw bolas physical skill.So you not only get peaks performance but also furry for 10 sec as well.You might also consider using wild blow rage skill, which also grants 8 sec fury.

@KelyNeli.4516 said:Use opportunist trait in tactics and some of the physical skill.So you not only get peaks performance but also furry as well.

That is nice, but in PvE, you are basically forced to give up either Discipline or Strength. Both of those traitlines are esential for DPS builds, unless you intend to camp only one weapon set. I would be better off by just taking for great justice and keep both traitlines. As I mentioned before, there are workarounds, but the issue is that Berseker should have (also thematically) much better access to fury, similarly to core warrior and spellbreaker. Missing Arcing Slice is the main reason of this.

@cryorion.9532 said:

@KelyNeli.4516 said:Use opportunist trait in tactics and some of the physical skill.So you not only get peaks performance but also furry as well.

I was wrong with the tree, this trait is actually in Arms tree.With this tree you could keep fury buff all the time, since it not only gives you fury on burst skill use, but also on the bola throw.

Discipline is not that good.You get bonuses on weapon swap, 7% damage if you have swiftness, which you dont have unless you use balance stance and burst skill with burst mastery trait but it is only for 3 sec, 3% damage boon on the target which barely ever happens in PVE.With tactics you get furry uptime with burst skill use and physical skill, which encourages you to get that sweet peaks performance boon, you get some condi damage as well which actually works even on power berserker since your activation does in fact some condi damage too and you stack condi on critical hits, not to mention you gain 1 adrenaline per hit and you stack your adrenaline bars crazy fast.

@editActually after some testing, i am 100% sure Arms tree with opportunists and Furious traits is the BIS right now.1 adrenaline does not sound like a big deal, but it practically almost doubles the amount of adrenaline you gain from hitting stuff. You get 1 adrenaline per hit normally, and with 100% crit (which you should have on power build) you get another 1 from this trait as a result of you applying critical hit.In berserker mode you fill up adrenaline faster than primal burst is able to cooldown, with Giant sword with new primal bursts its super strong you spinning around all the time, its crazy.

@KelyNeli.4516 said:@editActually after some testing, i am 100% sure Arms tree with opportunists and Furious traits is the BIS right now.1 adrenaline does not sound like a big deal, but it practically almost doubles the amount of adrenaline you gain from hitting stuff. You get 1 adrenaline per hit normally, and with 100% crit (which you should have on power build) you get another 1 from this trait as a result of you applying critical hit.In berserker mode you fill up adrenaline faster than primal burst is able to cooldown, with Giant sword with new primal bursts its super strong you spinning around all the time, its crazy.

Arms was always better choice for soloing stuff if you wanted max possible solo dps. Even Spellbreaker is better, but you take Signet Mastery instead of Opportunist because fury is not an issue for SPB/core, thanks to Arcing Slice (and also Signet of Rage). Vulnerability stacks from Sundering Burst is the most valuable trait to get from Arms together with ferocity bonus from Signet Mastery. But having best possible dps doesn't mean the build is best overall. Having benefits of Discipline is usually too good to give up for Arms traitline. Have fun in e.g. open world without Warrior's Sprint, Fast Hands, Brawler's Recovery and even Axe Mastery that makes Decapitate spam much better.But again, this is all just another workaround.The idea is to have good fury uptime from weapons, like on core, spellbreaker and berserker before rework. Anet just made Berserker to be specialization of extremes, when being in Berserk and when not, aka the "trade-off".Easy solution is to give Arc Divider fury on hit, similar to Arcing Slice, with reasonable durations. Problem solved. I expect Arc Divider damages to be nerfed in PvP/WvW, so there is no reason to be afraid of fury on it (if damages are properly adjusted).

There's also axe MH for fury on axe 2. coupled with Arc Divider

But it's VERY tempting to just go sword for more mobility (or to just dodge AoE) tbh and Rifle is actually nice to pair up with Arc Divider just to deal with z-axis teleports. or actually play a non-defense trait build.

Well:Signet of rage + "for great justice" + rune of rage/rune of the citadel

I'm pretty sure that with that you easily perma fury. Add to that cyclone axe which can pretty much already cap your fury uptime with rune of rage/rune of the citadel. Or maybe battle standard that give you an interesting 60s window of fury.

Anyway you're usually not in need of fury when you are in group/raid so for solo that's already a lot.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well:Signet of rage + "for great justice" + rune of rage/rune of the citadel

I'm pretty sure that with that you easily perma fury. Add to that cyclone axe which can pretty much already cap your fury uptime with rune of rage. Or maybe battle standard that give you an interesting 60s window of fury.

If only people read properly... another workaround, yes,but the main point of this is that fury was removed from berserker because of missing Arcing Slice and no fury when entering Berserk. Thematically, there is no reason for that, since berserker should be also furious when in Berserk, you know. This wasn't an issue before the rework at all.

I think the best approach to fix most of berserker's issue is to tie berserker time with fury uptime. Stay berserk as long as you have fury and in combat, lose berserk when you go out of combat or lose fury.

@TheBravery.9615 said:I think the best approach to fix most of berserker's issue is to tie berserker time with fury uptime. Stay berserk as long as you have fury and in combat, lose berserk when you go out of combat or lose fury.

You're gonna hate boon corruption and boon rip effects in PvP/WvW even more while you'll easily stay perma berserk in PvE. Terribly bad idea.

@cryorion.9532 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well:Signet of rage + "for great justice" + rune of rage/rune of the citadel

I'm pretty sure that with that you easily perma fury. Add to that

cyclone axe

which can pretty much already cap your fury uptime with rune of rage. Or maybe battle standard that give you an interesting 60s window of fury.

The point is that, granted that warrior is already overflowing with fury, is it necessary for berserker to provide even more fury? Having to build for something is better design (and better for the game as a whole) than having everything granted for free. You talk about thematic fury yet it's clearly not in the GW2's berserker thematic. Even the core skill that hold the word "berserker" (berserker stance) don't have anything to do with fury. If crit chance (or in other word "fury") was in the thematic, ANet would have put precision on F1 instead of only giving power.

@"cryorion.9532" said:Arms was always better choice for soloing stuff if you wanted max possible solo dps. Even Spellbreaker is better, but you take Signet Mastery instead of Opportunist because fury is not an issue for SPB/core, thanks to Arcing Slice (and also Signet of Rage). Vulnerability stacks from Sundering Burst is the most valuable trait to get from Arms together with ferocity bonus from Signet Mastery. But having best possible dps doesn't mean the build is best overall. Having benefits of Discipline is usually too good to give up for Arms traitline. Have fun in e.g. open world without Warrior's Sprint, Fast Hands, Brawler's Recovery and even Axe Mastery that makes Decapitate spam much better.But again, this is all just another workaround.The idea is to have good fury uptime from weapons, like on core, spellbreaker and berserker before rework. Anet just made Berserker to be specialization of extremes, when being in Berserk and when not, aka the "trade-off".Easy solution is to give Arc Divider fury on hit, similar to Arcing Slice, with reasonable durations. Problem solved. I expect Arc Divider damages to be nerfed in PvP/WvW, so there is no reason to be afraid of fury on it (if damages are properly adjusted).

You are expecting the similar game play and outcome of a core warrior which is plainly wrong, because berserker is not supposed to be played the same.As a berserker you should focus your traits on building up as much adrenaline as possible, because in berserker mode you are unmatched power DPS. Its not workaround, its how it supposed to be played.You dont have any other options for fury on berserker, and with arms you do, along with increased adrenaline build up.Sundering burst applies debuff 3 times when used with Arc divider, you get fury for using throw bola, which also grants you peaks performance and 6 adrenaline, thats right and 7 when crit. Furious trait increases adrenaline generation through hit by 2 times, you get 1 adrenaline each hit from whatever you do, and another point if that hit is crit.Discipline now is trash tree to go for on berserker, arms synergizes with berserker and gives everything he needs.Its not walkaround, its BIS.

@KelyNeli.4516 said:You are expecting the similar game play and outcome of a core warrior which is plainly wrong, because berserker is not supposed to be played the same.As a berserker you should focus your traits on building up as much adrenaline as possible, because in berserker mode you are unmatched power DPS. Its not workaround, its how it supposed to be played.You dont have any other options for fury on berserker, and with arms you do, along with increased adrenaline build up.Sundering burst applies debuff 3 times when used with Arc divider, you get fury for using throw bola, which also grants you peaks performance and 6 adrenaline, thats right and 7 when crit. Furious trait increases adrenaline generation through hit by 2 times, you get 1 adrenaline each hit from whatever you do, and another point if that hit is crit.Discipline now is trash tree to go for on berserker, arms synergizes with berserker and gives everything he needs.Its not walkaround, its BIS.

Where do you want to use this Arms build, exactly? Do you think that Arms build is as practical as Discipline build? Max dps is not always the best thing to strive for when playing solo.The whole issue could be fixed simply by adding fury to Arc Divider, adding back core bursts to berserker and/or adding back fury upon berserk activation.If you want that extra damage from Arms traitline, you are free to do so anytime, but please don't use not very good berserker rework as reasoning to use very situational build.

@cryorion.9532 said:Where do you want to use this Arms build, exactly? Do you think that Arms build is as practical as Discipline build? Max dps is not always the best thing to strive for when playing solo.The whole issue could be fixed simply by adding fury to Arc Divider, adding back core bursts to berserker and/or adding back fury upon berserk activation.If you want that extra damage from Arms traitline, you are free to do so anytime, but please don't use not very good berserker rework as reasoning to use very situational build.

In PVE in general.What gives discipline over Arms? Lets talk here about berserker.5 adrenaline on weapon swap, where you could double the adrenaline gain with Furious trait.

For a second trait warriors sprint is pretty much the only choice, which gives 25% movement speed and 3% dmg with swiftness buff.Fast hands reducing weapon swap to 5 seconds, would you ever use that trait to be honest? From time to time sure, but are you staying at one weapon for 5 second only? Rotation with for example GS and axes takes longer than that, its a wasteThen you have banner buff, 200 more stats, lets say precision and ferocity, this translates into 5% crit chance and crit damage, the gimmick here is that you have to slot a flag in order to make any use of it. Placing a flag and taking, managing it takes time, time is dps, not really worth it, flags are useful enough even without this trait if you play group content. Other two traits are there for pvp not giving too much.Then you have trait that gives you 2 might on weapon swap and bursts skills recharged faster which does not even matter for your berserker since you dont utilize it too much due to the berserker mode downtime, lets be real.After that you have 2 pretty nice and useful traits, depending on which weapon you use, you could get faster recharge on axe and 2 adrenaline on crit with axe skills, but are you an axe user? Maybe on core warrior, but on berk?Second one gives you quickness when hitting a target below 50%, but it has 15 sec cooldown its crappy.Third one is probably the one you choose on berserker, but then this trait benefits are limited to the berserker mode and you are reducing your effectiveness outside of it even more when you go for that trait. That 7% burst damage is meaningful if you are going to make an use from it two-three times every 30 seconds.At this point you are lacking furry uptime, and you are missing about 20-25% on the DPS while being at 80% crit chance or lower, its not optimal at all.Arms will give you an easy access to fury during berserker mode and outside of it, you get easy 30% incoming damage debuff on your arc divider, you get twice the better adrenaline regenaration, your throw bola skill gives you 7 adrenaline, furry for 10 sec and peaks performance, with super fast casting and it is on low cooldown with 2 charges to use, and a little condition damage on top of it.

See what i meant when saying, discipline is not for berserker?

I asked about practicality, not why Arms is better DPS. I am aware that you can do more dps with Arms.What will be your condition cleanse when playing this build in e.g. open world? Are you going to use condi cleanse utility? What about movement speed? How are you going to get swiftness or 25% movement speed? Are you going to use special runes to cover that?There is a bit more to this, than just DPS.Discipline build is more practical and versatile, better adaptable for various situations.I can imagine Arms berserker being good for soloing certain dungeon bosses (literally same applies for Arms spellbreaker compared to Discipline spellbreaker), but for more versatile things, it is not better than Discipline berserker.

@BlackTruth.6813 said:You have to use Arms on Berserker. 100% crit burst is just too good, and 50% crit on stunned foes with unsuspecting foes is too good to not have as well depending on the build. I'd prefer the 10 vuln stacks though because it helps my team.

That's the only way to remedy the lack of fury uptime for now.

Maybe use Runes to make up for it. That and/or just use Assassin's amulet, but then you lose power from Berserker amulet for an STR DISC Berserker or STR DEF Berserker build. Arc Divider has to crit for when it counts or it's kinda hard to play Berserker: Berserker identity atm is (unblockable) AoE damage over spellbreaker/core.

I understand why you need Fury though, it really sucks when you don't crit much for when it counts when you LEGIT have to crit a lot on berserker to be significant.

Arms minor furious burst also gives fury for 5 seconds everytime you use a burst skill

Edit. Nvm 15sec internal cd

@RedShark.9548 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:You have to use Arms on Berserker. 100% crit burst is just too good, and 50% crit on stunned foes with unsuspecting foes is too good to not have as well depending on the build. I'd prefer the 10 vuln stacks though because it helps my team.

That's the only way to remedy the lack of fury uptime for now.

Maybe use Runes to make up for it. That and/or just use Assassin's amulet, but then you lose power from Berserker amulet for an STR DISC Berserker or STR DEF Berserker build. Arc Divider has to crit for when it counts or it's kinda hard to play Berserker: Berserker identity atm is (unblockable) AoE damage over spellbreaker/core.

I understand why you need Fury though, it really sucks when you don't crit much for when it counts when you LEGIT have to crit a lot on berserker to be significant.

You also get 100% crit burst on Arms and unsuspecting foe (though it is kinda hard to stun people nowadays) anyways but I guess you could fit in 2 autos and a whirlwind attack in between before the second Arc Divider.

It sucks that you don't get much fury outside of Berserker mode by that logic as well (Other than through Axe 2 and Runes)

@BlackTruth.6813 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:You have to use Arms on Berserker. 100% crit burst is just too good, and 50% crit on stunned foes with unsuspecting foes is too good to not have as well depending on the build. I'd prefer the 10 vuln stacks though because it helps my team.

That's the only way to remedy the lack of fury uptime for now.

Maybe use Runes to make up for it. That and/or just use Assassin's amulet, but then you lose power from Berserker amulet for an STR DISC Berserker or STR DEF Berserker build. Arc Divider has to crit for when it counts or it's kinda hard to play Berserker: Berserker identity atm is (unblockable) AoE damage over spellbreaker/core.

I understand why you need Fury though, it really sucks when you don't crit much for when it counts when you LEGIT have to crit a lot on berserker to be significant.

I kniw that you get burst precision and unsuspecting foes... I was just adressing op's issue of having less fury....

Also signet of rage doesn't really count. It's too weak at it's current state to REALLY contend with headbutt or rampage.

Headbutt could actually be really good once ANET nerfs Rampage (which might actually happen)

Yes Berserker does have so little ways to get fury, but even if they did give it back to berserker mode, it won't really change much. May as well give it back there because "fury" and "Rage" are intertwined thematically anyways.

Could make it "pulsing" too for a bit, and it won't change much. At least it isn't stability or protection or resistance.

@"cryorion.9532" said:I asked about practicality, not why Arms is better DPS. I am aware that you can do more dps with Arms.What will be your condition cleanse when playing this build in e.g. open world? Are you going to use condi cleanse utility? What about movement speed? How are you going to get swiftness or 25% movement speed? Are you going to use special runes to cover that?There is a bit more to this, than just DPS.Discipline build is more practical and versatile, better adaptable for various situations.I can imagine Arms berserker being good for soloing certain dungeon bosses (literally same applies for Arms spellbreaker compared to Discipline spellbreaker), but for more versatile things, it is not better than Discipline berserker.

Discipline is quite practical and versatile. As a warrior you have other sources of movement speed ranging from Rage Signet, to warhorn. GS and SW offer nice mobility skills to close gaps. Frankly Cleansing Ire in defense is better condi cleanse, but then "Shake If Off!" is also better.

The one thing from Discipline that is irreplaceable is Fast Hands, which is so good that I have felt since launch should have been the Warrior baseline, but at this point that won't happen.

So... unless you are running axes or banners, the only other reason to slot Discipline to me is fast hands. I would give a honorable mention here to Versatile Power for the reduced burst cooldown, but for Berserker Primal Bursts are already on a short cooldown. Reducing Berserk Mode is helpful, but 12.75s versus 15s is meh. At that point either you or the enemy should be dead on a Berserker.

Arms gets you 100% crit chance on burst skills or more adrenaline gain to pump those skills out, regardless of spec, if you attain 100% crit chance in other ways. You gain other accesses to fury that do not depend on slotting a utility or elite to gain it. It also can give you Lesser Signet of Might at the point in time other players hit their panic buttons, and procs Signet of Ferocity at that time. In open world PvE you'll have at least 2 stacks of Signet of Ferocity while running around even if you do not slot signets in your 6-0 slots due to Signet of Ferocity procs.

So, as for Arms utility: Better adrenaline gain, better fury access, more unblockable access, more potential Ferocity, bleeding procs as a cover condition, a great deal of vulnerability, and greater critical chance on burst skills.

Others will point out that gaining 100% crit chance on Bursts is not the best, since it is only on bursts, but it does pair well with Sundering Bursts. And if you are relying on your bursts to crit in order to get the kills you need, then Burst Precision opens other stat combinations for you, which is something that Discipline does not do for you.

However, Fast Hands is really good, so maybe that tips the scales for you. I think it is a argument of going full DPS and relying on active defense, which is what the game pushes, or taking a very useful and versatile spec instead. You will have fun either way, like with everything else in this game it boils down to you personal play style, unless you are in a raid where DPS rotation is everything, then thou must run Meta.

@Lan Deathrider.5910The point of this thread is to point out lack of fury uptime as berserker, unless you heavily build for it (going Arms, taking certain Skills, etc), compared to core warrior and spellbreaker. As core and spellbreaker, you can sustain fury with greatsword easily, by just using the warrior's main mechanics, burst skills. Fury was taken away from berserker mechanics (gaining Fury on entering Berserk and missing Arcing Slice burst).Having fury on berserker's mechanics and being able to upkeep fury similar way as core/spellbreaker is what I hope for. You can go Arms anytime, even with core/spellbreaker, for extra dps (from vulnerability and signet mastery), but wanting core/spellbreaker-like fury uptime only, shouldn't limit berserker to Arms traitline.It is one boon, that is pretty much standard for warrior class.

@cryorion.9532 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910The point of this thread is to point out lack of fury uptime as berserker, unless you heavily build for it (going Arms, taking certain Skills, etc), compared to core warrior and spellbreaker. As core and spellbreaker, you can sustain fury with greatsword easily, by just using the warrior's main mechanics, burst skills. Fury was taken away from berserker mechanics (gaining Fury on entering Berserk and missing Arcing Slice burst).Having fury on berserker's mechanics and being able to upkeep fury similar way as core/spellbreaker is what I hope for. You can go Arms anytime, even with core/spellbreaker, for extra dps (from vulnerability and signet mastery), but wanting core/spellbreaker-like fury uptime only, shouldn't limit berserker to Arms traitline.It is one boon, that is pretty much standard for warrior class.

That's, like, directly connected to the berk mechanic/playstyle. If you want core/SB fury upkeep... pick core/SB spec?