A week on after "changes" thief sucks in wvw — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A week on after "changes" thief sucks in wvw

LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

Comments

  • LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

    Makes me so sad how bad thief is at the moment and that is just wvw. I don't want them to be broken and I hated dead eye but still... thief NEEDS changes or buffs

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    Staff thief is more survivable than it was pre-patch, though it lost 2 damage modifiers in exchange for 240 power. Feels okay to use, but 900 range swipe would feel much better

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    idk .. see quite a lot of teef running around in wvw atm .. and most of them are a true pain .. maybe u will have to change something .. build or playstyle ?

  • My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Been seeing less of them ever since they introduced tiered up towers + sentries actually applying reveal if you camp stealth for too long. Also the nerfs to DE rifle dodge stealth? Not sure what it's called. Then there's the steal range on DD reduced to 600.... yikes. And lastly, warkitty mount so even more HP to go through. As much as I dislike fighting thieves in WvW I think they've got hit pretty hard with all these changes, indirect or not. I haven't even logged onto my condi DD evade spam build in a while. It probably still works but why bother when you can delete people with brain dead pew pew SBeast or facetank with Sbreaker/holo, let alone AoE plenty 'fire & forget' skills... it's kinda fallen out of favor dagger getting up close and personal with your enemy on such a squishy class unless you're also running acro line.

  • Kolisch.4691Kolisch.4691 Member ✭✭

    Do away with having an extra health bar on warclaw. Let people decide to dismount before the hp goes way too low and risk getting downed (killing warclaw means downing target).

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Em, did you know that there has been for a while competitive build called s/d core?
    Yes, I have to admit that after Swipe addition im not touching d/p DD. Even with a stick. But s/d core is fine and working. In the beginning it will look like all actions are 50% slower than d/p, but you will get used to it.
    One shot builds are silly and I don't have any respect to those that plays them, especially Malicious Backstab DEs (where you lost your dignity bois?). Good teef doesnt need that to kill someone, trust me.

    Scrapper might be kinda painful and time-wasting, but for example if you make good use of flanking strike its possible beating most of them. Of course best will probably survive at 30% hp, recover and it will end being stalemate, but w/e. Same goes with holos, it just ends up being harder fight for thief and good holo shouldn't lose, this class just needs to smash its skills and there's 99% chances that he will hit with something and its gonna hurt, hurt pretty bad.
    Its not the easiest time for teefs, but its still really playable.

    Just dodge, outsmart, disengage during spikes and interrupt important skills. You should be fine for most of the time.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Try vallun's hybrid build. Stacking 5-10 stacks of poison from auto chains is nice. Its cleansible, but I've had good luck with it.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

    Swindlers Equilibrium and the new Weakening Strikes minor trait I think bring sword mh to a nice threshold and under quickness if someone is killable you should close them out before they get away.

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    If you're capable of hunting down and killing all of those thieves, what exactly is your problem? Thieves have already been nerfed to the ground, if the class were eliminated however, what would be your new excuse to rage over a game mechanic that frustrates you?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

    Swindlers Equilibrium and the new Weakening Strikes minor trait I think bring sword mh to a nice threshold and under quickness if someone is killable you should close them out before they get away.

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    If you're capable of hunting down and killing all of those thieves, what exactly is your problem? Thieves have already been nerfed to the ground, if the class were eliminated however, what would be your new excuse to rage over a game mechanic that frustrates you?

    I'd be to busy partying about the demise of thief to be frustrated by anything!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I run core S/D with great success. D/P DD is harder now but I'm still able to pull of some cheeky plays with have a ton of unblockable uptime between my steal and basi venom. D/D just isn't a great combo for WvW/PvP for any build really. Your giving up blinds, dazes, or shadowstep for an evade (which you get on S/D anyways) and some damage. Just isn't really worth using even as cool as it is.

    "Maining" necromancer now but I play all professions really.
    Lets work together to improve the player's experience.

  • JonnyForgotten.4276JonnyForgotten.4276 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bezerker.2379 said:

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Try vallun's hybrid build. Stacking 5-10 stacks of poison from auto chains is nice. Its cleansible, but I've had good luck with it.

    Been running p/d, sb or double sb hybrid recently, and it's really not too bad. The unblockable on swipe really shines landing the big condi steal burst. . . plus I am pleased that I can run EF and ID at the same time. :)

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really dislike the range nerf on Steal, and OP got a Thumbs Up from me.

    But...maybe you guys should say Good Bye to your old school Thief builds. I'm with @Blockhead Magee.3092 when it comes to stealth play. I despise it. I mainly play Daredevil, and the only stealth I use is the one you sometimes get from Steal. When a stealth Thief shows up and tries to "fight", I just leave. What's in it for me when the backstabbing starts or Infiltrator's Striking? Nothing of value. The old school thief builds were mainly used for ganking, and that's where the terrible rep of Thieves comes from. It's easy to imagine a non-thief player believing that behind the screen of a Thief character sits a kitten. There were simply too many people who used Thief for the only purpose to stealth gank other players.

    While the nerf on Steal was uncalled for, I can still play quite well with my DD, using Staff and Pistols. You can imagine hhow often I was whispered by other players to not use pistols. But they work great for me. I don't have any issues dismounting people. Yesterday we took two keeps in EB and kept the enemy from entering while our siege operators did their hard but honest work. I just placed myself at the stairs and had Assassin's Signet and Haste ready. When I saw the riders approaching, I triggered both of them and got most enemies from their Warclaw with a single Unload. Unless they save all jumps for the last meters, they are done.

    I happened to log in yesterday without changing my gear from Berserker + Scholar Runes. I just wanted to get the dailies done when a comm tagged up and invited people to take the castle. I was in full power setup and thought why not, it's just a peaceful takeover. I usually switch to Marauders and other runes or play a Scourge in a zerg. Unexpected to me, we faced significant resistance inside the castle. It turned out that my squad mates were great supporters and I was able to do well in big fights with 12k health and a glass build. Afterwards we had a 25 minutes bag farm at their Keep and my staff DD did quite well. Survival was pretty good with the heals, cleanses and buffs from the other classes. I did almost as much total damage as the Warrior with top dps in the group. Thief can be a viable class outside of organized meta groups. But not with the stealth ganking builds you guys are complaining about.

    Your beloved Short Bow for example is simply outdated. Once I was runnning next to a Thief who used sb #5 for travelling, and he wasn't even faster than me using Dash. When I tested it, #5 was so slow, I was almost already at the target spot when I got ported. And when you eventually arrive, you have to wait for your Initiative to restore.

    And that is the real crux with Thief: Initiative. While basically all other classes have tons of skills available, can even swap weapons and have fresh skills, when we run out of Initiative, we are out of the fight. Other classes can send a perma-barrage of damage skills your way, while you have 3 or 4 shots really. Also, it means that we really can only choose one trait line freely. Trickery is a must because of the additional Initiative. Daredevil is a must. You can only pick one other trait line, which is kind of limiting.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Staff dd is better now, but d/p is riperino :(

  • ruller.2084ruller.2084 Member ✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:
    I really dislike the range nerf on Steal, and OP got a Thumbs Up from me.

    But...maybe you guys should say Good Bye to your old school Thief builds. I'm with @Blockhead Magee.3092 when it comes to stealth play. I despise it. I mainly play Daredevil, and the only stealth I use is the one you sometimes get from Steal. When a stealth Thief shows up and tries to "fight", I just leave. What's in it for me when the backstabbing starts or Infiltrator's Striking? Nothing of value. The old school thief builds were mainly used for ganking, and that's where the terrible rep of Thieves comes from. It's easy to imagine a non-thief player believing that behind the screen of a Thief character sits a kitten. There were simply too many people who used Thief for the only purpose to stealth gank other players.

    While the nerf on Steal was uncalled for, I can still play quite well with my DD, using Staff and Pistols. You can imagine hhow often I was whispered by other players to not use pistols. But they work great for me. I don't have any issues dismounting people. Yesterday we took two keeps in EB and kept the enemy from entering while our siege operators did their hard but honest work. I just placed myself at the stairs and had Assassin's Signet and Haste ready. When I saw the riders approaching, I triggered both of them and got most enemies from their Warclaw with a single Unload. Unless they save all jumps for the last meters, they are done.

    I happened to log in yesterday without changing my gear from Berserker + Scholar Runes. I just wanted to get the dailies done when a comm tagged up and invited people to take the castle. I was in full power setup and thought why not, it's just a peaceful takeover. I usually switch to Marauders and other runes or play a Scourge in a zerg. Unexpected to me, we faced significant resistance inside the castle. It turned out that my squad mates were great supporters and I was able to do well in big fights with 12k health and a glass build. Afterwards we had a 25 minutes bag farm at their Keep and my staff DD did quite well. Survival was pretty good with the heals, cleanses and buffs from the other classes. I did almost as much total damage as the Warrior with top dps in the group. Thief can be a viable class outside of organized meta groups. But not with the stealth ganking builds you guys are complaining about.

    Your beloved Short Bow for example is simply outdated. Once I was runnning next to a Thief who used sb #5 for travelling, and he wasn't even faster than me using Dash. When I tested it, #5 was so slow, I was almost already at the target spot when I got ported. And when you eventually arrive, you have to wait for your Initiative to restore.

    And that is the real crux with Thief: Initiative. While basically all other classes have tons of skills available, can even swap weapons and have fresh skills, when we run out of Initiative, we are out of the fight. Other classes can send a perma-barrage of damage skills your way, while you have 3 or 4 shots really. Also, it means that we really can only choose one trait line freely. Trickery is a must because of the additional Initiative. Daredevil is a must. You can only pick one other trait line, which is kind of limiting.

    Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Thief I literally a garbage class now, good job arenanet. DD is over all worse now at what it did.adding like 2% more sustain to a class that has horrible sustain will not make it a viable brawler. The range nerf hit d/p hard, a already weak build. DE stealth was nerfed for what? So u could give scrapper 15 sec of it at push of button(now 12) and recently mesmers stealth. While DE the stealth sniperclass had to spend 80% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields lmao like seriously? Here comes another ban for saying somthing negative about the company lmao ridiculous.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ruller.2084 said:
    Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

    This is just my way of rationalising why I play a class that sucks compared to all other classes. Truth is, why should anyone pick thief for anything except stealth ganking? I find no rational reasons to do that, I'm just kind of emotionally connected to the class.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    thiefs are bit useless in combat due the amount of aoe spam game has nothing more, thief is fine, game aoe spam design isnt it....

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief the assassin class is fine but bit useless in combat? Lol the class is the worst 1v1 class while being the most glassy. Right now it's only a viable runner to decap nodes. In wvw their a joke beyond meme builds. I love seeing on my reaper lol they either run or die in seconds, must be fun for em. They are far from fine.

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